Why do you need a real ID if you have a passport?

Yea, meanwhile they're supposed to do that "6 points of ID" thing at the MVC for years now, and I've never needed more than my old license every time I bothered to gather all those documents.

FWIW I refuse paperless billing on many principles:

1. Some don't let you opt back to paper without a fee, and some now insist on a fee for paper, which sucks for older people who may not be comfortable doing stuff online.
2. Way to many things still want a bill or statement for proof of residence (including the library).
3. The banks saves money, they pass on 0 savings to me. That's bullshit. At least split it, even if it's a $0.10 credit every month. At scale it's a good boost to a CEO's bonus. But I don't really feel like the negatives are worth me making a sacrifice to help a needy CEO.

I'm doing my part by keeping paper bills alive. If enough people stop getting them, expect to pay for paper.

The benefit of the appointment system is solely on the staff and is a MAJOR PAIN IN THE ASSHOLE to everyone else.

Not only everything you said, but you also shouldn't let folks take money out of your account or sign up for "autopay".

What bugs me is they want to save paper, but still stuff the bills with 5 pages of unnecessary crap! Plus they don't give real access to the data past a certain date, for some banks it's just a few months and then it's a PDF not actual downloadable data.

Newsflash for banks: data storage is so cheap that Google & MS are giving away tens of gigabytes. My Quicken file of 30 years of my financial life is only 30mb. You make billions on us, giving us a fews cents of text & numbers data storage going back a decade would be nice.

If I didn't get paper utility bills I'd never look at them, and that's not good.

Depends what it is. Things with variable billing? Absolutely not. I want to audit the bill before I pay.

Do I want to pay a $10 surcharge to Verizon every month for a set payment? Not really. They call it an "autopay discount", but it's really a surcharge since they advertise pricing with the discount already included. FTC if they really wanted could step in on this bullshit, but it's too small and they're too toothless to do anything. Easy enough have the bank block transactions and threaten them with small claims court if necessary.

So I don't have to take a hard to replace passport on every domestic air trip.

I don't see how it benefits them. Either way there's a long line and they move in slow motion. The only benefit I see is so people don't drive there and spend 8 hours in line only to be told to come back tomorrow, which is what was happening a while back before Covid trashed the RealID push. My son had to get there at 7am to be sure of being seen before closing time to convert his provisional to a full license.

Ok grandpa. Whatever. And I won't buy things over that 'internet thing' with a credit card.

EDIT: Since they deleted it, I was responding to happyartichoke saying not to pay anything by ACH.

No, false. Let me explain this to you buddy.

The problem with autopay is people can just take money out of your account, and if they take too much or keep taking it after you're done with them, then the onus is ON YOU to spend a bunch of YOUR TIME trying to talk them into giving you YOUR OWN MONEY back.

If they ask for money and you pay them, the onus is ON THEM to spend THEIR TIME chasing you if there is a misunderstanding.

Yup. It’s all bullshit. It’s not like they even store those pdf’s. They’re generated on demand from the database.

I have a feeling that a ton of people are gonna find themselves unable to clear airport security come May, 2023 because they don’t seem to grasp the details of what will be required going forward.

I think the 6 points is just for new licenses and address changes. I only had to show 6 points when getting my first nj ID, after that it was just ID and proof of address.

Not for Real ID. You need to actually go to the website, https://www.nj.gov/mvc/realid/ They call it 2+1+6. 2 proof of address, 1 of SSN, 6 of ID.

I guess it depends what you're there for. When I made an appointment for renewing my registration I was in and out in under 4 minutes. (Jersey City MVC office)

You're right. Many years ago, Verizon, through autopay, withdrew an additional random $300 from our checking account. After many hours of phone calls to various reps and mangers, they owned up to their mistake. However, Verizon refused to refund the money. The $300 had to be used as credit for future bills. Yeah, Verizon sucks.

The guy above said they are supposed to do 6 points of ID at the MVC but he's just used his ID. So I assume he's just doing basic renewals.

It was pretty seamless for me at Bayonne DMV. Took maybe 1hr total. Altho, DMV is not something I go on a whim, it needs some planning if you want it to be seamless. You need a certain number of ID and proof of address. I had my ID, SS card, birth certificate, I do paperless bills usually so I printed out a bank statement from my bank.

This chart was helpful in showing what documents are required. https://www.state.nj.us/mvc/realid/pdf/26.pdf

The hard part for me was just getting the appointment.

Does a Real ID expire in 4 years just like a regular one?

The address verification is definitely tricky. I brought my letters from bank and and property tax postcard. One says Apt, one says #, the lady firmly rejected them because that's not the same address according to her. I was lucky to have another one showing Apt and she accepted it. I'd imagine a normal person would understand there is no material difference between the two and most of times, whoever sends those letters has their own address formatting system to show the "correct" address in their mind.

FYI, the Social Security card isn't required for a Real ID, according to the MVC Website.

You can use a paystub with your SSN or a W2/1099. And there's also a new option for you to write your SSN on the application and the MVC will verify it electronically.

Verizon though gives you a discount for enrolling in autopay

I read all that on their website too. Except going through their menu of picking docs, every time I picked "write it in", it printed out "SS card"! Made me nervous enough to rummage out my actual card. Also none of my income documents have the complete number, just the last four.

While I was at the second station at the MVC there was a guy several spots down raging at them that the website had told him what he had was adequate, and the first station had also passed him, and now they were telling him that he had wasted 2 hours because it wasn't! Definitely did not want to be that guy...

I tried to use my W2 and they told me no. It’s not a government document.

I don't know what to tell you. It says right on their website that it's accepted as long as it was issued in the last year. I don't see any requirement for it to be a government document (just like a bank statement isn't a govt doc).

Airports are just the start. Real ID will be required to access federal facilities including military bases, courthouses, SSA offices, nuclear power plants, etc...

bUt WhAt AbOuT mY pRiVaCy!?

Wait until you hear you also can't pack heat inside

Consider yourself lucky. It was a nightmare during 2020

I went to Bayonne MVC last week and that place is a fucking dump, but they got me in and out in 35 minutes.

In general, most people live blissfully unaware of shit. It’s crazy, but a fact. Come May, this will be a shit show. And, you are definitely correct that airports are just the start, but it will be the most high visibility one: the TSA screens about 2 million people each day.

For what service? Registration and licensing can be very different. And Real ID different too.

RealID actually. The key is to be organized and use paper clips and fill out the form beforehand. I actually challenged myself to work through the whole process without saying anything. I managed to get away with “hello” “thanks” and “can I take my picture again”

Being organized (as I was) doesn't help when it takes an hour after your appointment time to get to the 1st station. I guess going to Lodi was my mistake. I've seen Bayonne be a shitshow too, and since appointment was required didn't think time of day mattered.

Speaking of the form, why the hell do they not have an option to populate it online and either print it out at home or bring it up online there? The clerk apparently disliked my handwriting (filled it out on my manila envelope while on line) and wasted quite a bit of time filling out a new one. There were no changes.

They do have a form online, it’s fillable then you can print it out and sign it.

Really? I was all over that site several times and never saw it, perhaps they don't have it linked from the Real ID page.

forms

Will passports be allowed as identification for flying domestically in the future? I thought you did not need a real ID if you had a passport (and did not mind bringing it when traveling domestically).

It reduces workloads and evens out the line so it doesn't vary from day to day. It also distributes traffic to all the offices and not more traffic in the offices in more populated areas. (All of this at the expense of the customers, the taxpayers)

I didn't even have to go there to make an appointment, I did it online. But how far out was the appointment you made?

I made the appointment online a few days before.

All that presupposes there's ever a time when there's no line. I don't know if anybody has experienced that. In my experience the MVC staff has absolutely not a care how long the line is. They move at the same glacial pace, chit chat, and seem to waste time no matter what.

And if they're already an hour behind by noon, then that's by design. It's not like a doctor's office where emergencies happen throwing the schedule off. But like the doctor's office, they plan a wait in so their staff is never facing an empty slot, the customers wasted time is not a factor in the plan until we rise up with pitchforks and torches the way it was starting to happen just before covid.

It does not presuppose that.

When it takes folks forever to get into the office, they're more likely to make sure they have all the documents and ask around and make sure. Meaning one less person in line later.