Submitted by HobokenJ t3_y9ujtm in jerseycity
FTA: "Christopher Columbus Drive is the Jersey City equivalent of Confederate statues – and as horrifying. "
Comments
suh_dude1111 t1_it7hhac wrote
As someone who lives on Christopher Columbus drive my support for this is entirely dependent on how inconvenient this would make my life
cC2Panda t1_it7l1ev wrote
Even if we do decide to rename it I guarantee it somehow turns into a shit show. The hispanic population in the 70's and 80's wanted to name what is now Manila Ave after something culturally relevant and the city council shot them down, some years later the Filipino community request it be named Manila Ave and it was approved. So then the hispanic community was like "what the hell" and so the city council decided to rename Henderson St. to Luis M Marin blvd.
Not saying this is a reason not to rename it, just that whatever happens I can almost guarantee there will be more people unhappy with the change than not.
is_rice t1_it7luhe wrote
My mom (old time JC native) still exclusively uses this name.
bodhipooh t1_it7mwan wrote
>city council decided to rename Henderson St. to Luis M Marin blvd.
It's actually Luis Muñoz Marín Blvd. But, Americans can't wrap their minds around the concept of two last names, and the "ñ" is also a bitch to pronounce, so those signs were later replaced with LMM Blvd, and now just Marin Blvd. But, it is now so devoid of any sense that even Puerto Ricans would fail to recognize the naming as it being in honor of the island's first democratically elected governor, because no one would ever drop the first last name and use just the second last name. So, unless you know the history of the street naming, one would be more likely to assume that it is named after the same Marin as Marin County in California.
dadathepanda t1_it7nu1s wrote
Indigenous Peoples Drive?
Umphaded_Fumption t1_it7nwqv wrote
This is the correct answer
adambomb901 t1_it7py7e wrote
Let’s be honest…Fulop going to name it after himself
objectimpermanence t1_it7q94g wrote
More like Luxury Ave. nowadays, amirite?
/s
LincolnPorkRoll t1_it7qmab wrote
Amy DeGise Hit and Run Way
GeorgeWBush2016 t1_it7s8s1 wrote
I don't give a shit what it's called, but changing it will be a huge inconvenience and there is a price attached to changing all that signage.
I say leave it.
datatadata t1_it7sq90 wrote
Honestly I have no strong preference. If enough people are bothered by this, we should change it though
Mr_Maxwell_Smart t1_it7ug63 wrote
Thank you for the hearty laugh today
HappyArtichoke7729 t1_it7v966 wrote
Just call it Columbus Drive and drop the Christopher part. Officially.
TrumpsBadHombres t1_it7x4fi wrote
Waste of tax payers money while people in the neighborhood need help
LimpComb3102 t1_it7yb9d wrote
Displacement Drive
Brudesandwich t1_it7zdyp wrote
While we're at it being back Jackson Ave
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_it80e8i wrote
Yeah, cheap pandering to ethnic voting blocs aint was it used to be.
DirectorBeneficial48 t1_it81m89 wrote
The time was over a decade ago, but yes. The good thing for the chances of this happening is that there are so few Italian-Americans left in this city, that the dems in charge don't really have to worry about trying to buy their votes. This is the reason we have the Katyn statue btw - dems vote-buying the otherwise conservative Polish-American voting bloc.
SlaveToPizza t1_it8277t wrote
🤷♂️
MichaelDeMarcoCEO t1_it82a32 wrote
Djura Grill Ave
crazylegsbeansie t1_it82xe5 wrote
Fuck off
jgweiss t1_it83jc6 wrote
hey, cant argue with what works...now they get to threaten to move it and 'save katyn' every few years..
PsychologicalAd1153 t1_it83mfq wrote
Then let's rename Essex and Sussex Streets, too, because I feel... uncomfortable saying these street names around my immature self.
Glitch5450 t1_it84ois wrote
Martin Luther King Blvd
whybother5000 t1_it85htn wrote
Meh
shortyman920 t1_it8667z wrote
I couldn’t care less. It’s just going to create a whole bunch of administrative work. All for what? It’s not like it’s called Hitler’s Way ave.
Woodstonk69 t1_it879d5 wrote
DeliveryBikesPleaseGetOutOfThe Way
LincolnPorkRoll t1_it885qr wrote
if that was a please, I'd hate to see the unpolite version.
Zulumus t1_it8894w wrote
What’s one genocide promoter compared to another?
tcbafd t1_it88r3n wrote
I make fun of my Italian friends by letting them know they don't have many options.
spypol t1_it88wae wrote
Wow, I learned something today, thanks!
(Btw, just pronounce ñ as "ni", so read Muñoz as Munioz, and you're good to go).
sandos4mando t1_it891uy wrote
Tony Soprano Way 😤
Miringanes t1_it89ine wrote
Oh god no. Purely from the perspective that I live on Columbus and always fuck up spelling “indigenous” and that is way too many characters for the post office to handle on an address line.
As it is Christopher Columbus Drive is too many characters. It should go back to Railroad Ave if anything.
VanWorst t1_it89qqy wrote
We could auction it off!
GoldenPalace.com Drive
antp121 t1_it8an75 wrote
Rather a fictitious mobster than Columbus tbh
legransterPR t1_it8be93 wrote
coffee shop taco bar way
ObviouslyJC t1_it8bemk wrote
People like you think they're solving problems, but instead you're creating more. Why don't you advocate for something more meaningful instead of this virtue signalling childish bs.
legransterPR t1_it8bqs0 wrote
This is a really bad take. "It's fine guys, at least it's not named after the most infamous instigator of genocide, just like a mid-tier one"
SadMasterpiece7019 t1_it8buzi wrote
Next you’re going to tell me Marin doesn’t rhyme with Darren.
el_leon_vago t1_it8clie wrote
Chilltown Road
bodhipooh t1_it8drcs wrote
>Wow, I learned something today, thanks!
I know... it's nuts that this stuff gets so overlooked even by locals who have been around a while.
​
>just pronounce ñ as "ni"
Not quite perfect, but very close.
bodhipooh t1_it8dydb wrote
Ha! Bingo!!
Western_End_2276 t1_it8eucp wrote
Here we go.
marat4ik t1_it8ghpo wrote
Luxury housing boulevard
marat4ik t1_it8gn5r wrote
Geese Excrement Place
mooseLimbsCatLicks t1_it8hbea wrote
It’s a stretch to imagine that any American, even of Puerto Rican descent, would know who that is lol.
shortyman920 t1_it8i5gu wrote
Where’s the line then? If you change names on this, then it’s a slippery slope and next thing you know statues are coming down cuz they were associated with a slave owner back in the 1700s.
legransterPR t1_it8ja01 wrote
I'd be perfectly OK with not honoring people who infringed upon human rights? Does not feel like a particularly slippery slope.
imaluckyduckie t1_it8ldx8 wrote
It would certainly be more convenient to have a street name that fits on a license and other mailing address labels
dadathepanda t1_it8ot6m wrote
Meant it ironically.
Legitimate-Value-134 t1_it8ouw0 wrote
MVP food truck
Simple-Television-27 t1_it8pold wrote
People worry themselves with such stupid garbage. There’s a ton of corrupt politicians/policies to address in this city/state/country and some dipshit takes the time to write an article that would induce eye rolls if it was written by a high school sophomore. Columbus may have been shitty, but at this point I want the opposite of anything that people like the author want.
NeitherPot t1_it8qv9c wrote
Won’t somebody please think of the luxury buildings!
NeitherPot t1_it8r6g6 wrote
Funny, that’s how I make fun of my male friends
halocene_epic t1_it8r6px wrote
George Washington was a slave owner. The C in Washington DC is Columbia. District of Columbia was named in honor of Columbus. Do want to rename the US capitol too?
NeitherPot t1_it8rbhs wrote
Just cut off the head of the Robert E. Lee statue and put a pumpkin on top!
[deleted] t1_it8rype wrote
Positive_Debate7048 t1_it8s24w wrote
LUXURY drive
HappyArtichoke7729 t1_it8sesv wrote
That's a statue. Not a road whose name is intertwined into many folks' lives.
We can just get rid of the statue.
Simple-Television-27 t1_it8sf6e wrote
No need. It’s still named Columbus Drive.
NeitherPot t1_it8srx6 wrote
Personally I’d be totally fine with renaming the capital (and giving its residents representation in congress as well). Believe it or not, cities, including capitals, have been renamed before.
EarthGoddessDude t1_it8tw0b wrote
Essex ~ Kingdom of the East Saxons ~ Eastern part of England settled by (Anglo-)Saxon conquerors
Sussex ~ Kingdom of the South Saxons ~ Southern part of England settled by (Anglo-)Saxon conquerors
What’s amusing is that Sussex County in New Jersey is the northernmost county, even though its namesake is literally ~ “land in the south”.
NeitherPot t1_it8tzp5 wrote
This is why “we” are going to lose the midterms? Not the insane lead-poisoned cult brainwashed by a fascist reality tv perv clown? Not the illegally gerrymandered districts and voter suppression that the GOP has been pushing for decades? Jesus fucking Christ—the other guys are literally taking our rights away but clearly WE are the bad guys here because someone broached the idea of potentially changing a street name. Right. Right.
htt-papi t1_it8u3z1 wrote
macaroni drive
Lonely-Wasabi-305 t1_it8uzkg wrote
This is brilliant
ShameyDeGise t1_it8v7gr wrote
Well, I AM Jersey City's biggest fan. It's only fair that they'd name a street after me.
But I find that Christopher Columbus guy inspiring. I'm a big fan of the death and destruction he left in his wake.
moobycow t1_it8vg47 wrote
Rs are out here screaming about Jews getting out of the country and towing the line before is too late, and making kids cry over colorful murals they painted in support of friends and Ds are going to lose over renaming a street.
Maybe, just maybe, that does not signify a problem with liberals.
Dependent_Map_3940 t1_it8vgpz wrote
*DraftKings/Fanduel enters the room.
shortyman920 t1_it8vyeo wrote
I don’t think anyone’s honoring Columbus with the current street name. In fact, who even likes that road lol, it’s chaos.
My point is, let’s not honor these people with future project names and street names. But the slippery slope is when you open up everything to change because someone did something that’s not good. Every town in America can probably find something to change. Are we going to push to change all that? Those aren’t the issues we need to focus on today.
Human rights, environmental protection, future of our society. That’s what we need to focus on, not changing street names in every town. That shouldn’t be top of yhe list
bodhipooh t1_it8wrxu wrote
Dude, if someone claims to be Puerto Rican and they don't know who LMM was, then they are full of shit. To many, he is the Puerto Rican equivalent of George Washington. Anyone flying into the island is landing at the international airport, which is named after him. A ton of roads, buildings, schools, etc are named after him. And, even in the US he was widely heralded in his lifetime, featured on the cover of TIME magazine three times, and also featured on a USPS stamp.
dont_shoot_jr t1_it8wudq wrote
drivey McDriveface
mcmuffin103 t1_it8x2op wrote
At least middlesex county is in the middle
mooseLimbsCatLicks t1_it8x85e wrote
Okay I should amend it to non Puerto Rican Americans who are not historians by trade or hobby. I think I’m generally well informed and educated and have never heard of him!
thunderroad45 t1_it8xjig wrote
I’m not Puerto Rican but I taught in a Puerto Rican neighborhood and the school down the block from mine was named after LMM. My school was named after the musician Rafael Hernandez and another down the street was named after Roberto Clemente. So I’d say with LMM being in that company, he’s pretty well known and highly regarded.
mcmuffin103 t1_it8xy85 wrote
Everything outside of downtown would be a good start for the city ffs. It’s just a street name. Half the people don’t even care about the street name.
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_it8ymh9 wrote
Nope. Marconi stole the radio from Nikola Tesla. Look it up, was affirmed in a US Supreme Court case. Marconi was a self promoter second only to Edison.
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_it8zkz9 wrote
You left out the most important one: Wessex, The Last Kingdom! Ive always wondered what name the Saxons in the north took. Never heard of Nussex, and Northumbria is a bit far. Also always wondered why there's Norfolk and Suffolk but no Ostfolk and Westfolk.
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_it90tld wrote
It's all about ethnic pride. In the early 20th century you had this huge influx of Southern European immigrants into a country created under a Hegemony of WASPs. They wanted to express that they too had a representative in the creation of this country and settled upon good old Chris, who had no idea where he was till the day he died.
Yeah he was a racist piece of shit, and as such was a perfectly representative man of his time. Cancel culture demands to be fed....
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_it91ulm wrote
If we're going to pull on this politically correct string, let's go all the way and say we should return the whole damn place to the Lenape and let them name the street whatever the fuck they want. Then the address of your former condo will be moot.
mikevago t1_it95bh0 wrote
I ran down the list of native sons/daughters to see if there was anyone worth renaming a street after. Martha Stewart's probably the most famous, although Kool & the Gang Avenue would get my vote.
But one more name jumped out at me — how does this city not have an alleyway named Nathan Lane?
PostPostMinimalist t1_it95m24 wrote
90 Indigenous Peoples, 70 Indigenous Peoples, etc.
Jahooodie t1_it96uys wrote
Just keep going with the word jumbles. I for one find the character of Columbo delightful
Jahooodie t1_it97cd7 wrote
Nah, we’re not nearly as cool with crowd sourced naming public infrastructure/machines as the UK. They’re the undisputed pros
foot-trail t1_it9bdz8 wrote
Posted several hours later by a different author: https://www.nj.com/hudson/2022/10/columbus-voyages-were-a-significant-human-achievement-he-deserves-to-be-honored-opinion.html
dalovindj t1_it9ch1c wrote
I like my pandering like I like my coffee.
Expensive.
dalovindj t1_it9cq42 wrote
> the Puerto Rican equivalent of George Washington
I love the part where he admits to cutting down the palm tree.
dalovindj t1_it9cvqh wrote
Amerigo Vespucci Avenue.
Leif Ericson Way?
dalovindj t1_it9d7kn wrote
> 90 Indigenous Peoples, 70 Indigenous Peoples, etc
Like the Sesame Street Count live announcing manifest destiny...
jersey385 t1_it9d7sb wrote
This is the answer.
gschoppe t1_it9dczw wrote
micmaher99 t1_it9dme7 wrote
Property taxes going up $2k a year but we're talking about renaming roads.
gschoppe t1_it9g5lb wrote
He was not a "man of his time". He was investigated and arrested for his barbaric rule of Hispaniola, and shipped back to Spain for trial, where his fame and rich connections got him acquitted.
It took a LOT to get arrested for your treatment of natives in the early 1500s, and Columbus was MUCH worse than most people realize.
Using and selling 10 yr olds as sex slaves, and cutting the hands off anyone who didn't deliver a specific gold quota, WITHOUT even checking if that amount of gold existed first was never "normal for its time".
Besides all that, whenever someone calls barbarism "normal for its time", they always seem to ignore the opinions of those being oppressed... It certainly wasn't "normal" for the Taino people, who refused to grow crops and committed suicide by eating casava poison to escape Columbus' rule of terror.
It's like saying "sure, he was a serial killer, but that's pretty common, according to the authors of 'Serial Killers Monthly'."
[deleted] t1_it9gwdp wrote
[deleted]
HobokenJ OP t1_it9id69 wrote
THIS. "Eh... pardon me, ma'am... can you point me to Columbo Dr?"
mookybelltolls t1_it9ldjd wrote
Nathan Lane Drive
MarieSkiis t1_it9lplz wrote
Chilltown Drive.
madmanxwater t1_it9mcka wrote
This city is getting too woke for me!
Ask-Downtown t1_it9o8cw wrote
You're so woke. Congrats!
imnotpopular t1_it9q04z wrote
had to scroll WAY to far for this one
HappyArtichoke7729 t1_it9qiai wrote
Not much different than Tonelle, Tonnele, and Tonnelle
WheeledHamster t1_it9swwx wrote
There take it back to its original name. Railroad Ave!!
Melodic-Atmosphere39 t1_it9u8ui wrote
Having Railroad Ave for the name would be better because it represents a better history of what Jersey City used to be like, the old history.
nycdevil t1_it9xfi9 wrote
We are not the bad guys. They are the bad guys. We are bad at strategy. We are bad at message discipline. Unfortunately, those things fucking matter.
edit: I don't think that I fully got my reply out in my initial message, so I want to add on to this:
Jersey City, it's time to protect abortion rights.
Jersey City, it's time to prevent antidemocratic, fascist forces from taking over a second branch of our government.
Jersey City, it's time to protect the right to contraception, gay marriage, and privacy rights from a stolen Supreme Court.
Sure, Christopher Columbus was a dick, but comparing naming a street after him to the statues of actual traitors who levied war against the United States is either ignorant or disingenuous, but is unquestionably really, really fucking stupid. Would I choose to rename Columbus Drive? Sure, seems fine with me, but it's like, the 100,000th most important political cause out there these days. Shut the fuck up about that and spend your time advocating for something actually meaningful.
iamstrugglin t1_it9z7nk wrote
Hell yeah! Symbols of oppression should be torn down!
Vegetable-Crow-3497 t1_ita0qrr wrote
No Parking Ever Dr.
ohnjaynb t1_ita31wb wrote
Yeah, but wasn't Tesla kind of insufferable? Sheldon Cooper is a toned down Tesla.
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_ita48s8 wrote
Yes he was totally Asperger's, but I don't believe he was actively annoying, just uninterested in other people for the most part. That included a disinterest in collecting accolades. He also discovered X-rays, thought it was interesting and moved on to something else interesting.
But that doesn't mean it's ok for other people to take credit for his discoveries, any more that was ok for Edison to take personal credit for the work of his lab staff.
TransientChef77 t1_ita6pyp wrote
Lets go all the way back before the original Dutch gentrification in the 1600's. Lenape Drive it is!
TransientChef77 t1_ita6y2q wrote
Or better yet... Lenape trail!
Hot-Ad2515 t1_itaa8b0 wrote
Exaaaactly. Distractions
Similar-Major3650 t1_itadmxi wrote
Get all your dumb ,fake woke self-righteous tools, out of our city, jersey city uis way better then the progressive waste.
legransterPR t1_itagytx wrote
YES DUDE WHY NOT?! Why would you continue to honor people who used their power to literally use and abuse other human beings to continue to grow their power and influence.
Please, go on and continue to try to convince me that this is a good thing. I'm dying to see what convoluted arguments you come up with next.
legransterPR t1_itahij1 wrote
This is another bad take, which implies that just because there is a bigger problem doesn't mean that other smaller problems can't be solved. You are implying that people will be satiated by the smaller problems and forget about the bigger ones, when in reality that's rarely the case. We can solve both.
Why do you want to be ok with honoring people who did really bad things in addition to good things? Why is this normal and ok and cool? Columbus literally advocated and enabled genocide of indigenous people on several Caribbean islands because of imposition of religions that they had never even heard of. Please explain to me why this is something that should be swept under the rug and forgotten because he was also an explorer.
halocene_epic t1_itanqf7 wrote
Columbus represents the discovery of the west which should be celebrated. Hence the reason why cities, countries, an Ivy League school, a national holiday, and roads are all named after him.
Mammoth_Hunter85 t1_itapa9y wrote
Taco Bell Blvd.
Remarkable-Cloud1372 t1_itbch9k wrote
Railroad Ave
PICHICONCACA t1_itbg27l wrote
Lenape Drive
RAWisROLLIE t1_itbjsf3 wrote
Easiest thing would be to just remove the Columbus part and call it Christopher Drive, named after Christopher Street in Manhattan. That way it can be just as confusing as Penn Station (Newark) and Penn Station (New York).
SoundMachineJC t1_itbkwf1 wrote
This is a rebuttal to the Timothy Herrick “Opinion” piece. Oddly his is free to read yet this is a pay for “Subscriber Exclusive”. Too long to post the whole thing.
Columbus’ voyages were a significant human achievement. He deserves to be honored | Opinion
Updated: Oct. 21, 2022, 4:45 p.m.|Published: Oct. 21, 2022, 4:02 p.m.
By Jersey Journal Guest Columnist
By John DiGenio
Timothy Herrick would have us believe that “Christopher Columbus Drive is the Jersey City equivalent of Confederate statues – and as horrifying.” Mr. Herrick weaves an incoherent tapestry of pseudo-history that manages to sew Columbus’s “first encounter” to the experiences that colonialists had with the Native Americans in what would become Jersey City.
https://www.nj.com/hudson/2022/10/columbus-voyages-were-a-significant-human-achievement-he-deserves-to-be-honored-opinion.html
jerseycityfrankie t1_itbtl24 wrote
My proposal: each six months we change just one letter until we reach the spelling of the new name.This ensures a gradual transition and no radical address change. So obviously the new name has to be as close as possible o the original spelling. Which is why my proposal for the new name is “Det Colombo”, in honor of the beloved 70’s Peter Falk tv character, whom I believe is universally loved unlike Columbus the explorer.
SyndicalistCPA t1_it7ficv wrote
Yeah, probably. Not only was he a dumbass, we was an evil bastard EVEN FOR HIS TIME.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/part-one-christopher-columbus-bringer-of-the-apocalypse/id1373812661?i=1000578520605