How should parents weigh BOE candidates?

Submitted by R_At1antis t3_ykg5gj in jerseycity

Interested in the feedback of parents in the district on the BOE election.

While I like what I've heard from the Change for Children candidates on more accountability for district spending, it's not clear to me that they are able to deliver that accountability without impacting classroom staff.

As recently as 2019, teacher layoffs were seriously discussed and may have impacted some schools - the volunteer effort from parents in my school zone to avoid that impact was substantial: https://www.ps16cpa.net/2019/05/12/the-fight-for-our-teachers-continues-w-ps16-in-the-lead/

Personally, as a parent in the PS16 zone, I'm leaning towards the Education Matters slate - as long as the tax increases are less than the cost of private school, not sure it's worth risking having teachers laid off in retaliation for budget discipline, but interested in hearing how other parents are thinking about this.

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bodhipooh t1_iut4iwi wrote

PS16 zone parent here... I am definitely NOT voting for the Education Matters slate. We need to vote all the union lackeys out of the BOE so we can get some much needed fiscal restraint and accountability. Also, you seem to be under the mistaken idea that current PS spending is less than private school. That is most certainly not the case. The BOE is spending ~33K per student. That's an outrageous amount of money, and far more than any other private school in town.

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TomGNYC t1_iuu13pb wrote

The private school cost per student comparison is specious. You can't compare them one for one. Private schools aren't forced to serve special education students which is where the bulk of the per student costs go along with the lawsuits when accommodations are not met.

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R_At1antis OP t1_iut504w wrote

Thanks - good thoughts. Also, to clarify my point above, I’m saying my school tax levy is less than private school tuition for two children.

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bodhipooh t1_iuth6g2 wrote

This is quite literally the mentality that got us to this situation. As long as others were footing the bill, and the impact of ridiculous spending was not noticed (or, perhaps more accurately, ignored) by residents, the BOE kept pushing the boundaries of their budgets.

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R_At1antis OP t1_iutkbvk wrote

Look I certainly understand the frustration - I am simply pessimistic about the likelihood of fixing an urban school district in the US over the course of the five years my children are likely to attend elementary school here.

PS16 is probably one of the best zoned urban elementary schools in the entire country, and certainly the state of NJ - I am sufficiently impressed the BoE has not ruined it, I’m not looking for miracles.

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Yr9012 t1_iut9bg5 wrote

If everyone votes for Education Matters, then BOE will be 100% represented by the Union. You will lack checks and balances here, and thus the quality of our education system may become worse even with heavier tax levy, because they can do whatever they want

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[deleted] t1_iutd1sr wrote

I don't think handing control of our schools to Lefrak and Mack Cali is a wise reaction to a high tax bill. I'm also skeptical that these companies are going to do anything to lower taxes for ordinary home owners instead of arranging favorable terms for themselves at our expense.

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keepseeing444 t1_iutfcbs wrote

Handing back control to taxpayers not LeFrak. Pull your paranoid socialist head out of that rabbit hole. Union mafia has had multi decade run to separate your money from your wallet. Wake up and smell their bullshit already.

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keepseeing444 t1_iutg93a wrote

You should re-read what candidate Hamilton on Change For Children slate wrote on AMA last week - he’s very clear on where he stands w teachers (off limits) and accountability(hiring a budget offer to oversee). He’s also left his email on there in case you’re on the fence and need things clarified.

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R_At1antis OP t1_iutl2yr wrote

Thanks - I am genuinely on the fence here as my taxes did go up significantly. I wish more background was available on why layoffs were thought to be needed in 2019 - I asked him in a followup question, but didn’t get a response.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_iuu3ctk wrote

If PS16 is one of the best zoned urban elementary schools in the country, do you honestly think any imaginary teacher cuts would affect it?

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R_At1antis OP t1_iuu4emt wrote

It’s a good point - impact to learning may be marginal given the peer group, but it could certainly impact comfort.

Eg larger class sizes, classes taught in hallways. Even basics like air conditioning - the air conditioner in a prek class broke last year, and one of the parents told me the school wouldn’t accept donation money to get it fixed. Maybe if he had fought more he could have made it happen, but it may just be more productive to pay the higher taxes and live with the attendant corruption.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_iuu6u0m wrote

The ends do not justify the means. It sounds like the air conditioner was fixed eventually. If not, the BOE increased their budget to nearly 1 billion and received an additional 100m in unexpected money from the state. Why didn’t they fix it? It sounds like more accountability and oversight is needed to ensure the board has the right priorities.

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keepseeing444 t1_iuyvv5v wrote

Alexander Hamilton was voted in Nov of 2019 as a trustee board member. And not actually in office until 2020. Those layoffs happened before he got elected so if I were you maybe ask the superintendent who is a 40 year lifer.

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Positive_Debate7048 t1_iut51fk wrote

If you vote for anyone who supports the NJ teacher mafia you are out of your mind. These tax increases are not going to substantially impact quality of our kids education, it’s just going to mean the existing school system is getting more money into salaries. We need better transparency for our school funding.

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madaser123 t1_iut9f2h wrote

I lived in Jersey City and got my education there as a child until high school. Now as a parent, can someone help me understand why teachers in school are the only way we expect our children to get a good education. Public schools are free and take up a majority of our kids time teaching imo subjects that may not be relevant for their future careers etc.

My main concern is where is the parent's responsibility to teach their children via themselves, tutors, or kumon like structures. After school my mother would give me a workbook for English, Math, and Science to complete for about an hour. Then I would have a Islamic school I would attend for an hour. Asian parents do this with their children for religious and musical purposes.

Some may argue that as parents they do not have time or resources for these things. I'm calling bullshit. You can add some or all of these things. I agree teachers play a role in our education. I had some great teachers but more importantly I had great parents who stressed the need for education and how it would impact my life starting at the age of 6.

We don't need to pay the board of education shit when obviously they don't know what they are doing. Educate your own kids using work books from Amazon for their appropriate grade level or enroll them in after school things like kumon [stressing science and math].

There are great high schools in jersey city such as McNair. It is kind of public meaning you have to take the psat to get in but no money once accepted. The BOE candidates cannot even copy a successful model. We have idiots trying to steal money from taxing paying parents to fund a helpless situation.

Please if I am incorrect about any of this. Tell me so I can see where I am going wrong. I was a poor immigrant in this country before I reached academic success and it was more from my parents than teachers.

TLDR: Parents need to play a role in education. There are other resources than teachers for education. Learn from successful schools such as McNair. Stop raising my fucking taxes cuz I don't believe in the BOE to educate their own children.

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Jadien t1_iutbm4u wrote

Part of the value in paying for public education is getting to live in a society where the kids who didn't get educated at home at least got educated in school.

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rbastid t1_iutlwpj wrote

This would be a valid point, if these students were educated at schools.

As a country (and especially Jersey City) school spending has exploaded, while grades have plummeted. Like a business at some point they need to justify their spending with results.

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madaser123 t1_iutexfk wrote

What do u mean by that? Which kids cannot get educated at home. Like I said my mom/dad came from Pakistan with no formal education. I did the workbooks on my own. I did get lucky because my parents could afford kumon.

However we have access to khan academy. Youtube. Plenty of resources that were not available before. Education is power and now it is available online. I know parents can be busy but we have to make time for our children.

We have to stress to our children that education is their job just like parents have jobs. This is why certain ethnicities Asian communities go very hard in education. I think some parents kinda just want to believe school is supposed to educate them. That is unfair because teachers are different and students are different. As parents we cannot shirk our responsibility to others including education. I'm not saying teachers are not supposed to do their jobs. I'm saying they have 20 plus students at time and their job is difficult as well. We got to do better as parents for education. America has declined significantly in terms of education for our kids

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ThenIGetAChipwichOK t1_iutg9a6 wrote

Sure, parents have responsibilities, but kids can’t help who they’re born to, and some of them are born to parents who don’t care, or aren’t capable of caring, or whatever, and that’s part of why we have compulsory and free public education in this country. When parents don’t or can’t meet their children’s educational needs it’s not the parents who get punished, it’s the kids.

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Jadien t1_iuthj5i wrote

Whether or not the parents can, many won't. And your children will live their lives surrounded by their children, and it may greatly benefit your children for them to be surrounded by at least partially educated people.

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rbastid t1_iutlif1 wrote

I feel like this is similar to a joke I would tell people, that was 75% truth. I learned far more watching the discovery channel and learning channel (back when the stations were actually about science and learning) as a kid than i did in grade school.

Like you said, today children have many more resources than we had, but instead of parents saying "spend 1 hour watching this educational video" they'll let them play on their phones (all those free chrome books and deeply discounted internet connections for students and low income families have most likely spent minimal time actually educating children.) This actually will help children in the long run too, because they can focus on things that aren't taught in schools, which are more applicable to future careers, as most schools still just teach you whatever book the School Board approved for this year's classes.

Good teachers are a vital resource, but the many bad ones and the million "teacher's aids" aren't. And no parent should want to leave their child to be 100% educated by schools, as you're then not trying to help your child better themselves above their classmates, which means it'll be hard for them to better themselves later in life.

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Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_iuwfhsj wrote

>Learn from successful schools such as McNair

There's nothing to learn when a school's success is based on skimming the best students from the rest of the district. Your premise would hold a lot more water naming a very successful lottery entry Charter like LCCS as a model. It produces superior results on a fraction the budget of a district school, and yes, it still has to pay for special ed students.

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Slight_Paint4487 t1_iutyczq wrote

It’s been shared in this sub before but the debate made it pretty clear to me who to vote for https://youtu.be/vFJmlANBc3c

Personally am considering Hamilton, Reyes and Sanon. Hamilton was by far the best in the debates in my opinion. Reyes seemed to take his cues from Hamilton which still had good points.

I appreciated Sanon’s answers that were more creative than the boilerplate stuff, and would also like to not have a complete slate come in. He seems to be thinking about more Scitech city public-private type initiatives.

It’s tough to trust handing the BOE to an already incredibly powerful union, and the union already has a voice in what happens in our schools. I have heard stories from Hudson county teachers about the corruption between the union and its hand-picked super intendant

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VanWorst t1_iuu2zd8 wrote

What turned me off of Sanon was that he mentioned multiple times owning multiple properties as a motivation

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isnelsanon t1_iuwi47a wrote

Thank you all! I mentioned owning multiple properties to assure residents that I will fight against future property tax increase. I also talk about review spending on a monthly basis to make sure we are spending wisely. I am not a developer or an investor. I am really sorry if they way I promoted owning multiple properties turned you off. I was only trying to promote that I felt the pain and will be your voice on the board on this matter. I can safely promise you that I will work very hard to bring back respect and sense of ownership to our teachers, administrators and our students. I honestly believe that positive work environment creates better results. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns 201-547-1400 or visit my site www.isnelsanon.com.

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kushNation141 t1_ivk3u0d wrote

if you are not an investor then why do you own multiple properties?

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isnelsanon t1_ivk5tqj wrote

A single family which we reside, mixed-use where my office is located that cost me less than when I was leasing and the other connected to the mixed-use that was available.

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Slight_Paint4487 t1_iuu3uai wrote

Yeah totally get that. Was definitely awkward. I own zero properties in JC, but I’d guess that probably appeals to some.

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driftingwood2018 t1_iutwe4s wrote

So basically no good options is what everyone is saying?!

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restricteddata t1_iuu0s8l wrote

What would you define as a "good option"? You have one group saying, "we're going to do what we've been doing, and we don't care how much it costs or whether it gets good results," you have another group saying, "we don't want to impact teacher quality or ability, but this money clearly isn't getting spent efficiently or effectively ($33K per student) and we should figure out what's going on before just mindlessly increasing taxes."

Obviously I've concluded one of those is a better option than the other, but it does seem like a choice is there. The only thing people have said against the latter is that some developers support them, but nobody's explained to me what sinister result I would expect from that.

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R_At1antis OP t1_iuu2boc wrote

I expect developers to want taxes to be as low as possible regardless of impact to schools in order to sell more units - most new units are not big enough to accommodate families.

That said I don’t get the impression that the Change for Children candidates are operating in bad faith; I just don’t have a good way to evaluate the risks they may pose.

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restricteddata t1_iuubzw3 wrote

Yeah, I assume they don't want higher taxes, but I was wondering if there was a more direct benefit, e.g., some kind of project they are trying to get through.

Given that they would still be a minority of the BOE, it seems unlikely that they'd be able to enact a nefarious developer agenda anyway, if one existed.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_iuu7fv0 wrote

I just ask a friend who is a JC teacher what candidates they're supporting and vote for them.

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tyrsal3 t1_iuw55vj wrote

Presumably on a scale. Can get one reasonably cheap on Amazon.

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Downtown-Prompt-6499 t1_iutrj0y wrote

why does everyone think it’s okay to defund public schools but don’t blink an eye when the city just passed its budget 10 months late. don’t take your anger out on the children.

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restricteddata t1_iuu0g4u wrote

Who, exactly, is proposing to defund public schools? It is not a position I've seen on here or from any of the BOE candidates.

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