Alternative uses for the $10.7bn turnpike widening fund

Submitted by mevinkurphy75 t3_z84vwh in jerseycity

Having recently learned that the cost of expanding the turnpike into a slightly wider bottleneck has doubled to $10.7bn I've been trying to think of alternative uses for the funds. So far, the best I can come up with is the Turnpike Authority purchases Manchester United Football Club (current asking price is $8bn) and use the remaining $2.7bn to expand the light rail system in every direction. Once the light rail expansion is complete they can focus on winning Premier League titles.

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HappyArtichoke7729 t1_iy9v9ya wrote

PATH expansion from Journal Square to Bayonne and then from Journal Square to Fort Lee

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HappyArtichoke7729 t1_iyaojxy wrote

and then maybe from Bayonne to Staten Island

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iyaqlxg wrote

Staten Island and then onto Perth Amboy closing that stupid transit gap between the 2 cities...

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NJ_Bus_Nut t1_iyaxfvi wrote

There used to be a ferry connecting Perth Amboy to Tottenville, but it got discontinued since the early 60s.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iyaxpzk wrote

The terminal on the NJ side is still there...I don't know why they haven't considered restoring service as part of nyc ferry , make it a line from Tottenville to the Amboys and then up to Lower Manhattan.

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pm_me_CupNoodles t1_iybjjer wrote

It’s crazy that Perth Amboy is so close to SI, yet it seems so far because of the lack of transit options. NY Waterway could consider a ferry route connecting the two, and from there to downtown Manhattan.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iybnqwu wrote

They keep proposing new ferry service from the Amboys / Elizabeth as part of a new development but it never happens...

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HappyArtichoke7729 t1_iy9vg7s wrote

It won't be $10.7billion, it will have ballooned to $30B or more by the time all the pockets are greased. It's already doubled, and it hasn't even started yet.

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DifficultyNext7666 t1_iyaocjm wrote

Our 1 year street revamp has been 18 months and hasn't gotten off my block. Well that's not fair sometime they take a week off to fuck up the next block for a day then come back and fuck up my block without warning

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iya364b wrote

I can easily seeing this double again to 20 billion so i'll list the projects that should be funded for that amount

  • Cross Harbor Freight tunnel : Bayonne to Bay Ridge
  • North-South Gold Coast Light Metro from Fort Lee to Bayonne under JFK Boulevard
  • Electrify the rest of the NJT Rail network
  • High Level Platform the remaining stations
  • Run a rapid / frequent Regional Rail service on the Inner Morris & Essex Lines ie Summit to Hoboken & MSU to Hoboken
  • Add Infill Stations at Ampere in East Orange , Harrison , Meeker Ave , South Street in Newark , Caven Point Avenue , 18th Street in Jersey City and 15th Street in Hoboken
  • Paterson - Hackensack - North Bergen LRT
  • Grade Separate Paterson Plank Road crossing
  • Northern Branch LRT - 8 mi - 8 Stations
  • Glassboro LRT - 18 mi - 14 Stations
  • Newark-Paterson LRT - 24 mi - 20 stations
  • Newark-Elizabeth-Cranford LRT - 12 mi - 16 stations
  • MOM Rail Network - 2 lines - 54 mi - 15 stations
  • West Trenton Line - 24 mi - 6 stations
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JCwhatimsayin t1_iyaeub1 wrote

I love the light metro under JFK Boulevard. Let's do that one! You gotta figure on blasting that whole tunnel through solid rock though right?

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iyait8p wrote

Elevated would probably be easier and cheaper to build now that I think about it.

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LootFroop t1_iybbmje wrote

I don't think people living along JFK would be happy living in the shadow of an elevated train line.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iybe10m wrote

Newer Elevated metros don't tend to cast a large shadow like the older ELs do...there also quieter..

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pm_me_CupNoodles t1_iybjz4i wrote

Yeah, if NJ Transit were ambitious, they’d build a Vancouver SkyTrain-like line at JFK Blvd, but I can only see them planning a bus rapid transit route. The street is wide enough to make dedicated bus lanes, perhaps make it so it’s easy to convert it to light rail in the future.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iybnn1j wrote

I think the PA should be the operator...and I doubt will ever see BRT converted to light Rail...it has to be Light rail from the start...otherwise they don't do it...no matter how overcrowded things get look at the MTA SBS outer boro routes...

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dualOWLS t1_iydxtkd wrote

PATH does not have the jurisdiction to build or operate one, and anyways they lose (lots of) money on the train they do have. I don't think they'd want to build another.

NJT however does have the jurisdiction and runs a public service. As far as I'm aware the county owned JFK boulevard would never host a SkyTrain and I think Brian stack hates NJT anyways.

Frankly the Palisades would be a good place for tunnel boring and a true subway, I'll give PATH the technical edge here but a light rail could just as easily operate as a subway like it does in Seattle and many places abroad. Whoever does it, I don't care. I'd rather have it than not.

But jurisdiction wise I would prefer NJT own and operate all rail in and out of NJ, including PATH (the train should probably just be MTA) and PATCO. Really there should be one agency in charge of Pennsylvania, NJ and NYC and subways/heavy rail should be expanded in all of these places. One can dream!

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iydyagq wrote

The PA built the JFK Airtrain which would be very similar to the design of a elevated light metro...

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dualOWLS t1_iydzfdz wrote

And they are building a Newark airport extension, we're still talking about to and from or even near areas they own. NJ owns the old ROW and PATH would have NYC to convince to spend money on buying property in NJ, and then building NJ only projects that they would then lose money on.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iydzvbi wrote

PA has no issue spending big on projects on either side of the hudson look at the Airport expansions , expansions done at the Ports...and the Freight rail network feeding into them...so I doubt they'll run into opposition over that for a path extension in Hudson County.. Amtrak owns the ROW to EWR and conflicts with some NEC upgrade plans..

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dualOWLS t1_iye0msp wrote

These are things they make money on. They are not building out on NJ ROW that connects 0 PA assets and has no money flow benefits for them. They are upgrading airports, ports, and freight but the only thing they've done for the train (apart from connect it to Newark airport, thus eating known profits from NJT) is reduce service year after year. They are losing immense amounts of money on it, there is no way they're expanding the train anywhere.

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jman457 t1_iya80vg wrote

I’ve heard the path has a halfway finished line to liberty state park. Finish that and expand it. Induced demand is a real thing

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molly_watah t1_iyajxxs wrote

Where’d you see this? Would be interested in reading about that

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RealMaRoFu t1_iyayf7z wrote

Don’t know if this line actually exists but I have heard the PATH (known in the past as the H&M) was originally supposed to connect all of the major Hudson River terminals except for Weehawken. So Hoboken (Delaware Lackawanna and Western), Newport (Erie), Exchange Place (Pennsylvania Railroad which also owned the H&M), and Communipaw Terminal (Central Railroad of New Jersey). The final terminal does not have a PATH station and is currently a part of Liberty State Park.

The junction where the 33rd/Hoboken line splits from the WTC line was originally going to be a four-way junction with the 33rd/Hoboken line continuing south to Communipaw if I recall from a map I saw.

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objectimpermanence t1_iye4umx wrote

I don’t think that’s true. I’ve read a lot on the history H&M railroad and the construction of the tunnels and have never come across anything about a half-finished tunnel over there. But I’d be happy to be corrected if someone has any evidence of that.

They did make some provisions for direct service from Erie Terminal (Newport) to Hudson Terminal (WTC). That idea never went far, but I believe it was was accounted for in the design of one of the junctions near Newport.

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allkillrnofillr t1_iyad6rh wrote

Something something public transit.

Edit: fuck cars.

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fastAFguy t1_iyatwvc wrote

r/fuckcars

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down_up__left_right t1_iyaat9j wrote

  • For that price tag be ambitious and go for a crossrail level project. Bring in NY and the feds to also spend that much and then do a rail tunnel from Hoboken to somewhere in lower Manhattan to Atlantic terminal.

  • Build a Union City station for the new Gateway tunnels to midtown or on the old tunnels when they're closed for renovation.

  • PATH to Secaucus Junction or up along the existing ROW alongside the Heights and Union City.

  • Fully grade separate the light rail and then automate it.

  • Extend the West Side Avenue Line of the Light rail to Newark Penn. (More expensive if it's done alongside the idea above to fully grade separate it.)

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Maleficent-Baby-1926 t1_iyagr87 wrote

path train to bayonne would be lit

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red__what t1_iyal8ql wrote

that would be 5000 trillion dollars, conservatively, given how govt finances work

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fastAFguy t1_iyatvvr wrote

Yes, but some contractor will be filthy rich!

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Sybertron t1_iyb4ne8 wrote

Literally house every homeless person and probably have an extra 8 billion left

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NJ_Bus_Nut t1_iyaymm7 wrote

- Bus lane/BRT along JFK from Bayonne to North Bergen.

- Extend the light rail to Bergen County and/or connect it to the Newark Light Rail

- Add a PATH line connecting Journal Square to Greenville and Bayonne like u/HappyArtichoke7729 suggested, could be routed along the National Docks Secondary

- The Cross-Harbor Rail Tunnel to connect freight lines between NJ and Long Island.

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LootFroop t1_iyb9v3c wrote

I do like the bus lane idea, but I just hope it isn't full of morons who double park there like on the bike lanes.

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jerseycityfrankie t1_iyapy5d wrote

I’m disappointed at the paucity of slapstick goofball answers here. What about spending it all on free jet packs for everyone with a clean drivers license and good eyesight?

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BenevolentCheese t1_iybc014 wrote

>Manchester United Football Club (current asking price is $8bn)

Really puts it in perspective. Totally unreal. Nearly all of it will be lost to graft, too. The project exists simply to siphon off money from tax payers into private pockets.

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red__what t1_iyal4uu wrote

my narrowing cashflow stream could always use some widening

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romanpieces t1_iyaw5g2 wrote

They could give everyone in Jersey City $37,685. Or free helicopter rides to Statue of Liberty for residents.

But real answer is expand / support public transit.

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craycrayfishfillet t1_iyb27e5 wrote

Only thing more dilapidated than NJ infrastructure is Old Trafford.

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LootFroop t1_iybapzx wrote

PATH or light rail to Secaucus

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iyd7v42 wrote

Thats abit redundant as the next stop on NJT at Hoboken has all those connections.

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LootFroop t1_iydfcje wrote

I mean from places like Journal Square where I don't have to travel to Hoboken and transfer to a train to Secaucus.

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Nexis4Jersey t1_iydh3i7 wrote

I think theres an existing bus route between the 2...not used much other then by the nearby warehouse employees..

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Aggravating_Sand352 t1_iydkun2 wrote

Probably could fund state school tuition for the next 10 years.... Building a toll free or even like a $.50 toll biking/walking bridge from Manhattan to JC would be amazing

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nanite10 t1_iydp4u3 wrote

Invest it in a hedge fund for 6 years and then it pays for itself.

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JEVoorhees t1_iyakmhc wrote

What is with you people?!?! The New Jersey Turnpike Authority is a STAND-ALONE entity! You don't get THEIR MONEY to extend a Commercially Operated, Quasi-State-Owned Agency's facility!!! I love the HBLRT! BUT, I know just about everything concerning the NJTA. And they don't have to spend their LEGALLY OBTAINED TOLL REVENUE on things that "make you feel good about yourself" and the goddam environment! RAISE YOUR OWN MONEY, and then GIVE IT ALL TO NJ Transit with the codisil that they can only spend it on "expanding the current Light Rail System." Then, after they are done LAUGHING AT YOU, give me a call and tell me how you did! You idiots don't know anything!!!

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Long_Ad4535 t1_iyav22f wrote

Fix the 495 entry and exit chokepoint in Weehawken!

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