https://i.imgur.com/3Mbny88.jpg

Really? Dang

You can find a great space in JC with that budget. Path train is easy access into Manhattan. Great art scene. Less crowded for now but there is a ton of development happening around the city - what before Covid was an empty lot is now a 20 story apartment complex. That’s happening in most neighborhoods here. Since you’re working in the city, try to find something near the path.

We moved to Hoboken and then to JC without ever spending any time in either before moving, coming from the west village. Chose jersey over Brooklyn because (depending on where you are) it’s definitely way cleaner and way less crowded and much closer to where we like to hang out in the city (west side down town), plus tax savings. Ultimately we decided if we weren’t going to be in Manhattan we might as well be in Hoboken/JC so we can take advantage of some of the benefits of not being in the city.

I’d say do it - we’ve never regretted it and disagree with the earlier comment - JC and BK are not the same, but I guess depends where in JC and where in BK.

JC is way nicer, I lived in Brooklyn (Williamsburg) before moving here and I have no regrets. cleaner, more pleasant, food is great, and if you work in FiDi your commute will be very fast

Only comparison between JC and BK is it still "crowded". Maybe not as much as downtown Brooklyn but understand a lot of people have been moving here, might feel less crowded because of less tourists

Come spend some time, though probably better when its warmer! Walk or bike around the neighborhoods. See the differences between the hi-rise waterfront, the Downtown Brownstone Historic Districts, and an area like the Heights, cheaper, less dense, and quiet. I'm guessing the GF would prefer the latter 2. You can get a 2br in the Heights for $2K.

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Sunset Park to Lower Manhattan is about 30-40 minutes on the R train.

JC to Lower Manhattan cab be about 10 minutes on the PATH + depending on how far you live from the PATH (service is not as widespread compared to the NYC Subway)

Do you have any personal hobbies or interests in Brooklyn?

Sake of argument of a good handful of comparative pound for pound examples and associated tradeoffs, Jersey City can be cheaper with things but it's not that much cheaper than many situations in NYC. It doesn't take much to find some extremely lateral setups in Jersey City and parts of NYC.

If you're in a higher tax bracket where the squeeze of the tax man is a bit more noticeable with what you're taking home, than yeah "it's cheaper" but it's not like New Jersey is known for being some magical wonderland people seek out for low taxation.

If a concern is quiet and you have someone going to work in Financial District, then yeah I wouldn't say somewhere like Downtown Jersey City is that bad of ideas.

If there's any stuff I'd say be mindful of, if you have a friend group that is scattered all throughout NYC and you're in JC expect often being the one to be going out to meet up with people and factor in how the PATH can be a total clusterfuck during late hours and weekends. If you say money isn't really a concern, yeah knock yourself out with the more expensive uber rides home if you can find someone willingly to go into NJ but if you lead an active enough social life taking you over creation in NYC, it can get a little old and pricy after awhile.

Jersey is nicer than Brooklyn. Some people would rather just say they live in Brooklyn though. Nightlife here is kinda meh so if you guys are big clubbers or anything I would choose Brooklyn, otherwise Downtown JC or Hoboken is your best bet.

Keep in mind, your friends will probably not visit you if you move to Jersey even though it’s closer than Brooklyn. A lot of people in NYC are allergic to New Jersey.

Transit:

I don’t really see any advantages that south Brooklyn has over Hudson county, except it’s probably on average less car dependent, but you really don’t need a car if you live near the LR or PATH. You will be closer to the city here than you will be there for certain. NJT buses to port authority are pretty solid. I think the ferry is kind of a rip off but some people like it and it’s dependable.

I think the PATH is far better than the NYC subway but there is debate on this subreddit whether that’s true. In my experience it’s more reliable for commuting. It’s certainly safer and cleaner than the NYC subway. Off hours the PATH doesn’t run very often.

Affordability: Most places near the PATH train have pretty much reached comparable prices to NYC, but the apartments are on average nicer, newer, and have more amenities. The monthly cost of an apartment is probably not going to be lower than one in Brooklyn, but when you factor in the quality of the apartment and commute times your money still goes further at the end of the day imo.

If you want something cheaper and are open to a more Suburban feel I would look at Yonkers/lower west Chester as well.

Living in JC is easier, nicer, more open space and more chill. Only downside is if you want a ton of arts/concerts/cultural activities right in your neighborhood.. BK is just so much bigger JC cant compare on that but improving each year tbh

> late 20s and probably won't have kids for 5 years or so. She works from home but I work in the Financial District.

Before you compare prices, look at the NYC vs NJ tax difference since it sounds like you two are white collar early-mid-career folks.

My wife and I are “spending more” on rent compared to where we lived in Brooklyn earlier, but after comparing taxes+rent we are saving $1,000+ a month on “rent + taxes”.

That was a major decider in our move.

Obligatory have never lived in BK. I work in FIDI near the Oculus and the commute in from JC, specifically the Exchange Place area, is ~10-15 minutes and super convenient. Coming in from Southern BK would certainly take longer. Downtown JC itself near the water is extremely clean, safe, less crowded (I would almost describe it as a "ghost" time vibe) and rent is cheaper for the amount of space you would be getting, though may be par with Southern BK compared to Manhattan etc. Overall a good experience. If commute time is big factor for you as it was for me, I think it may be a no brainer.

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path is not for me

Huge point about the taxes

Move wherever she wants. She works at home and you’re likely never there. She wins

I keep hearing conflicting things on taxes. I read the code and it looked to me like working in NYC should require you to pay City taxes, but I am not a tax lawyer. One of the tax attorneys in my firm lives in JC and says he saves on taxes so I guess it's probably true.

Someome mentioned this, but I'll re-iterate, your NYC friends will NEVER visit you, like ever.

That said, it's nice here. If you have access to a car, it's super easy to get to places that feel more suburban.

There's not a ton of green spaces in Jersey City, which is, to me the biggest drawback.

>Jersey is nicer than Brooklyn.

I mean, which part? Most of "Brownstone Brooklyn" in nicer than NJ if you ask me...

If you don't live in NYC, you won't pay NYC tax. For something so simple, there sure is no shortage of confusion about this.

You pay NYC city income tax based on your residency not your work location. So NJ residency = no city taxes

But you still pay NY state taxes right?

That one is more complicated. In short, yes but you'll get a credit towards NJ state taxes so you aren't actually 'double taxed.' Have to file a return in both states and the math for calculating what you owe is a bit weird but it basically works out to be similar to working in only one state for most people since the NJ versus NY rates are similar enough.

Yes, but NJ taxes are roughly the same as NYS taxes (actually a smidge more in most brackets, but JC/Hoboken offers SIGNIFICANTLY better infrastructure than Long Island or Westchester)

It’s the city taxes that make the most difference

It’s boring here. Move to Brooklyn. Can’t wait to leave.

Just moved to JC in November after 13+ years in Brooklyn (Williamsburg, South Slope, Prospect Heights, Crown Heights). There was definitely some hesitancy to leave the city and we hadn’t spent much time in JC but family being this way and a new kid in the picture helped push us to look. We instantly fell in love with the town especially Hamilton Park & Van Vorst & Paulus Hook areas. We got a place in Hamilton Park and love it. There’s a bit of a culture shock in just how low density the area feels. I see as many people between our place & Grove Street commute as you see in 10 seconds on the city side. Sometimes we miss the action but we’re still finding lots of great things in JC to get excited about. And it’s so much cleaner. Come check it out at least.

NYC city tax is between 3-3.8% depending on your tax bracket, if you make 250k it’s about 10k a year, not 10k in extra income, like 10k after tax.

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Brooklyn similarly to jersey city has its nice areas and not so nice areas. I think a major pro for jersey in general is that it’s safer. “Nice” is definitely subjective. I personally adore Brooklyn but wouldn’t leave jersey for it. Just personal preference.

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Jersey city is great and 3.5k budget is reasonable. You can find a spacious one bedroom in that range. Possibly 2 bed but smaller common areas. Anyways, jersey city and Hoboken are an easy commute to the city and safe. Jersey city is pretty big but if you stay downtown or near the water, you’ll find it’s a similar vibe to Brooklyn. The food is great but the night life is definitely much slower paced here. Nothing a quick path into the city can’t fix though. I’d recommend spending some time in the area before making the decision. I’ve never lived in Brooklyn but I love it there. I’d choose jc or Hoboken personally.

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fuhgeddaboudit , women were always right.

no bagels --> plenty of mid eastern food

prospect park --> liberty state park & board walk

crowd -> space

old apartments -> new mostly renovated/larger

no parking -> parking

Brooklyn bridge pic --> the entire Manhattan skyline in a single pic. easy walk reach.

bike everywhere -> bike somewhere (at least to major internal destination)

BQN & traffic -> almost none of it in comparison (except if you hang on the holland tunnel)

cool vibe -> less vibe, less fuss too, can still be surprised by nice events in JC

coney island & rockaway -> sandy hook via seastreak (faster,better imh)

destination location -> living location

museum --> no museum

My partner and I are in our fifth year here in JC, after living in the Upper West Side and various areas of Brooklyn, and I think it compares highly favorably.

For us it was a no-brainer, we save five figures annually on taxes living on this side of the river. You should talk to your accountant or tax attorney about this, and if you don't have one, it seems like it's past time to get one. If that sounds too daunting, your bank can probably make somebody available. This is too big a consideration to rely on your best guesses or something you read online, there are a lot of potential concerns about moving across the river that a bunch of extra money in your pocket can fix.

That aside, on to quality of life concerns.

First, I'm honestly surprised to see people who are supposedly used to the MTA complaining about the PATH. The PATH isn't perfect, but it's better than the MTA. And you're two stops from Grove to the WTC. That essentially makes downtown Manhattan part of your neighborhood. People travel further than two stops in NYC and still consider themselves on their home turf, but somehow the state line predisposes people to think they're further than they actually are. I blame the MTA map.

Second, along the same lines, it genuinely might be difficult to get people from NYC to visit you. . . at least the first time. In our experience, convincing somebody to cross the Hudson is like pulling teeth, but almost universally, the reaction is "it's actually really nice here! And I can't believe how easy it was to get here!" We threw a few big parties when we first moved in and really haven't had a problem since in getting Manhattan and Brooklyn folks in to spend time. (I will say, our Queens friends have a standing invitation to stay in our guest bed overnight, as Queens is genuinely fucking far.) But like, from World Trade Center, we are a five minute train and a ten minute walk along safe, well-lighted pedestrian boulevards. We're closer to downtown than most of Brooklyn and even most of Manhattan itself.

It's easier to get away from the city for the weekend from JC than it is from Brooklyn. We love to camp in Upstate New York, and our dear friends in Park Slope usually join us. They're less than an hour from us by transit, but somehow it usually takes them two hours or more just to get out of the city (leaving on Fridays during the summer leaves them susceptible to lots of traffic). We can leave at the same time and be at the campground hours before them. A two hour drive vs. a 4 - 5 hour drive is a big deal when you're just making a weekend trip.

As for the urban fabric, it's so similar to Brooklyn that I would worry less about you having the urban experience you want, and I would worry more about your girlfriend not being happy because the move wasn't dramatic enough. If she wants a bigger place and more space, and you want to still be able to get into the city easily, I'd look in downtown just past the high-rise district, roughly around Van Vorst Park and Hamilton Park. For context, we live roughly halfway between the two, we have a ten minute walk to the Grove Street Path, and we have a 1200 square foot 2-bed/2-bath with a roughly 900 square foot private garden that we spend a lot of time in. After a rent hike we now pay $2,800/month. Old construction, which we prefer.

Finally, you know what nobody realizes until they live here? We've got the best views of the NYC skyline. ;-)

It can depend on your preferences. I think the brownstones in downtown around grove street are equally as nice as the ones in Brooklyn. They both are very diverse in the types of neighborhoods that exist. I tried to lay out why I think JC > Brooklyn in the rest of the post, when I said nice I meant it in an overall sense.

I disagree. The person who has to commute should probably have the bigger say on location since they will have to be going in frequently.

>And you’re two stops from Grove to the WTC. That essentially makes downtown Manhattan part of your neighborhood. People travel further than two stops in NYC and still consider themselves on their home turf, but somehow the state line predisposes people to think they’re further than they actually are. I blame the MTA map.

The problem is the infrequent PATH service on nights and weekends. That 10 minute trip from Grove to WTC can easily turn into 30+ minutes if you don’t time the trains correctly. Psychologically, standing around on a station platform and waiting for 20+ minutes is kind of a big deal. Adding a subway transfer to that trip will turn off a lot of people.

The NYC subway runs trains frequently enough that most people never feel the need to consult a schedule. Once you have to consult a schedule before riding a train, it is no longer a seamless experience.

That’s why New Yorkers make such a big deal about coming to JC. Coming here via PATH is not a seamless experience unless they’re traveling during weekday rush hours.

It would be a game changer if the WTC line ran every 7-8 minutes from 9am to 9pm on weekends.

But in OP’s case, they already live in Brooklyn and commute to FiDi.

Moving to downtown JC near a PATH stop probably wouldn’t add more than 5-10 minutes to their commute. Depending on how deep in Brooklyn they live, moving to JC might even shorten their commute.

I don't disagree at all on lengthy platform waits being an absolute drag, and an important consideration to over-all travel times. I've just also lived in Brooklyn, where latenight trains have the exact same problem. Maybe if you're in midtown Manhattan you can expect a train every few minutes at any time of day, but OP is considering like Sunset Park. I have friends in Park Slope, Gowanus, Boerum Hill, and Bay Ridge and we don't assume late-night trains will be convenient.

The Grove - WTC Path is as reliable as any outer-borough subway line that I personally have ever had to rely on.

The subway connections to the outer boroughs might be just as infrequent as the PATH, but at least those people don’t always need to make transfers or pay double fares.

For example, WTC might be a quick 10 minute trip from JC. But how many people actually have the WTC area as their final destination? Most people are probably going to need to transfer to a different part of the city. Those kinds of trips are less desirable than a simple one-seat ride between Manhattan and, say, Park Slope.

Dearth of culture compared to BK. There’s much more to do there.

The double fare sucks, for sure. I really wish the relevant authorities could coordinate on that. At least you don't need a whole new card anymore, that's an improvement.

But like I said in my original post, there are a lot of problems that a five figure savings in taxes will solve. There are worse places my money could be going than funding transit agencies, so I ain't real mad about it.

A one-seat ride is awfully nice and convenient, but just being on the MTA doesn't guarantee that. When I lived in Brooklyn, most of my trips were not one-seat rides, and the same is true when I visit friends now. The convenience factor tends to be (for us, these days) that we'll use transit on the way there, with books in our bags if need be, and if we stay out pretty late we'll take a car back. There again you've the cost of the tunnel compared to Lyfting between two spots within the city, but again, we'd have to be a lot more social than we are to make a noticeable dent in our overall savings living in JC.

So money aside, for us it's a time question, and Jersey City via the PATH is as close in minutes to anywhere we'd want to go as southern Brooklyn would be.

What sealed it for me was proximity to other places I go a lot. My family is all in Philly. JC to Philly is way easier than Brooklyn to Philly both via public transit and by car.

>NYC friends will NEVER visit you

then not really your friends.........

I live in JC now I would stay in Brooklyn if I were you You will not have the same convenience as Brooklyn Also the PATH frequently shuts down or has massive delays which means you will not be getting back JC is much more of a big suburb

JC is the place to be!!!

My friends come. My place is way bigger than there’s so we tend to have all the get togethers at mine. I think JC/Hoboken by the path is not the same as jersey suburbs. I don’t go to the jersey suburbs.

LOL, you have better friends. Actually you're right. It was a much bigger thing when I lived in Secaucus. I do get friends out this way from time to time.

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> we save five figures annually on taxes

this is insane, what a boost! Your apartment situation sounds perfect too, pretty much exactly what I'm looking for.

Wonder Bagels!

I’ve done both I much prefer Jersey City to lower BK. The commute is largely easier and it’s cleaner and more upscale living. That being said, it’s hard to get to BK or Queens from JC which I missed sorely while living there

Exactly, the PATH being a commuter rail first throws a lot of stuff for loops when it's not during that time.

It's not the most convenient and gets a bit annoying when you hit the bad hours and constantly have to anticipate and factor in that your en route time will account for waiting for 35+ mins for the PATH.

And that's not even factoring added time that can be attributed to PATH stations closed/skipped, lines closed, maintenance, accidents etc that can turn waits into a bigger hurdle.

Also if you got friends returning back to different parts of NYC from JC, nobody likes to have things be a science project of having that longer wait that can throw their entire trip for a loop because of how they weren't moving for 40 some odd minutes. Just because the PATH runs up near lines in Manhattan doesn't necessarily mean it is convenient for everyone's route back home when they already got other transfers to worry about.

I used to work deep in Bed Stuy and Ridgewood at off hours from Journal Square and the final leg with the PATH was always the biggest pain point in either direction with stuff because there wasn't really any backup plans in the event something went wrong.

I'm not gonna argue that the MTA is somehow immune to similar issues but when you're trying to get back to or leave Jersey City, your options are severely limited in the event something is taking too much time or went wrong; are you really saving much money when you're defaulting to the 50+ dollar cab ride back home when you just wanna get back across river?

I don't mean this as any disrespect for people's social lives but whenever these discussions on this sub often come up, I'm forever reminded of that one post from a few months back where a majority of people responding said how they pretty much only go into NYC for work things and light socializing(if at all), and it was pretty telling why so many people on here don't think it's that bad because they sparingly ever deal with the PATH when it is at its most inconvenient.

Hi -

I lived in bk for 9 years (all over but Carrol Gardens for four) and then moved to jc for 3. Similar to you, was living with my girlfriend. We were largely motivated by a want to purchase our home, but overall feel like I can shed some light.

Tons of mixed emotions on wheres “better” but for me and my girlfriend it was the right thing to do for us. It’s kinda like a half step into suburban life is how I’d describe it.

What it boils down to, night life better in bk and day life better in nj.

Brooklyn Pros:

• food is 1000x better than jc- best bagel in jc is wonder bagels? What a joke. Delivery also is faster and better in BK.
• Easier to get to most places in Manhattan. Trains for one, but also Lyfts/Ubers from the city are prohibitidly more expensive to nj.
• culture and socializing. Access to concerts. All great bands of all levels of fame go to the city…rarely to nj. Went to Brooklyn steel the other day, took me around an 1.20 to get home and I was driving and left at intermission which also meant I had to stay sober.
• bodegas. You may have one nearby in jc, but we did not. Miss them all the time.

JC pros:

• more neighborly. People are way more respectful imo. You also get more personal space…not just that apts are bigger but also you don’t walk out the door to chaotic streets and things like that. Not that it’s empty, just a bit quieter.
• everything is just a bit cheaper. You probably won’t save in rent, but you’ll get a 2 br for the price of a 1 br. Beers closer to $5 than $8 at the dives. Groceries/flowers/random stuff just seem cheaper but it’s all expensive everywhere now.
• I saved 3% on taxes
• you can drive places. I had a car in bk but I lived in constant fear of losing my spot. In jc I drive to a place 20 min away and come home and park.
• parks/ golf. I used to have to wait 3 hours for a tennis court and pay for a permit just to play at the public parks. Now you reserve in advance at Lincoln park and walk right on. Everything is just a bit closer. Golf is just closer and skyway is really a tremendous value.
• Newark airport has its problems. But a $30 Uber to the airport that’s never longer than 30 min ride is better than a $75 ride to jfk/lga that could take anywhere between 30 min -2 hrs.
• way easier to get out of town. Reliably less turnpike traffic than bqe.
• Indian food is better in jc for sure.
• I think these consumptions lounges are gonna be awesome once they get going.
• you have way more limited access to the city, but when it is off the path it is better than off the train. Path runs on a schedule and is generally cleaner and more spacious. Late at night it does suck, but so does l train and others.
• can’t put my finger on why, but way better to have a dog in jc than bk.

Neutral:

• people always say “nobody from ny will visit”. However I always thought nobody from Manhattan ever really wanted to come to bk either.

Sorry for the dissertation! Just have tons of feelings on the subject.

downtown JC is comparable to BK the rest of JC not so much. i moved from bk to greenville this year. better space and residence but nothing much going on out here, neighborhood is a bit rough and it is hard to get friends to come visit. my focus was on saving and investing though so i sort of went into it with that mindset

Wow yoh need better friends, mine visit all the time.

I actually just moved from jc downtown to bushwick Brooklyn. I loved there in JC. The reason I move is simply because I have been transferred to Brooklyn area and my girlfriend commute to east village and its easier here. For 3500 you can get a very decent 1 or 2 bedroom apartment in JC downtown.

Here are my pros and cons for JC

Pros: Lower tax (since you can afford a 3500 apartment it’s going to be a quite large difference on your paycheck) Quieter and cleaner street (especially Newport) Lower crime rates Very pet friendly, especially for dogs. Not for everyone but if you need to do some business at government departments like DMV nj is generally less overwhelmed than NYC.

Cons: You might need a car. The public transportation is limited. Say if you want to go trader joe in Hoboken and then target beside the tunnel it’s a bit painful if you don’t have a car. Parking spot is not so expensive comparing to NYC but if you want to go for street parking it’s a bit tricky. (Don’t think about bet your luck and park illegally. When it comes to giving traffic tickets JC and Hoboken is the fastest in Tri state area)

Limited choice on restaurants and nightlife. JC has a fair amount of decent spots but it’s still no comparison with Brooklyn. Plus the path train does not run so much at night, if you want to go for a night out in NYC you will have to either take a 60 bucks Uber or wait 40 mins at path station when you are half drunk.

I would say if you prefer a simple and quieter lifestyle JC is definitely better option. It’s even better when you have a car but if you don’t you just need to pay extra attention on grocery options at your new apartment.

Hell, its not even a given when living in Manhattan. I lived on West 191st and the amount of times I had to switch to a shuttle bus after a late night out or deal with slow trains after 42nd street was crazy. Literally, after 1am, all the trains are shit and its just as difficult to get around with the same wait times as the path. I take knowing my train will be here in 40 minutes over the "next train in 15 minutes", but its actually 40 minutes of the MTA.

Plus, at least the path is 24 hours... yes you have to wait a bit if you dont make the connection or the subway takes a bit longer to get you where you need to go, but atleast its not Metro North or NJ Transit were if you miss the 2 am train you are pretty screwed until 5. Its not seamless, but you really dont have to consult a schedule. You are not locked out of leaving NY until early morning if you so happen to miss the last train because the Path doesnt have a last train.

I get that it sucks to use the path overnight or even during the day on weekends, but again, unless you are in Midtown-Downtown Manhattan, shitty weekend and overnight service is pretty universal throughout upper manhattan, the other three boroughs and urban jersey near the path train

low density in Hamilton Park??? It has a similar vibe to Park Slope and a similar pace as well... IDK I always find these comments that JC/urban NJ are a completely different vibe a bit weird when much of NYC has a similar vibe as well once you get a few subway stops away from Manhattan

Yeah, I do think the biggest downside to JC is that is way to overly reliant on NYC and Newark for arts/concerts/cultural activities... but hey, at least those places are super close by which means you dont have to shut yourself off from being able to enjoy those things.

JC literally only trails NYC and San Francisco in terms of density per square mile. Its just weir to hear people say JC isnt crowded.

JC is kewl

And people keep trying to say that JC is the suburbs yet is more "city" than majority of the US.

Yeah same here, my NYC friends don’t make a big deal of taking the PATH. And they generally like the change of pace when they come out here.

Yup in fact, for cities in the top 100 biggest cities the ranking is: 1) NYC; 2) JC; and like 5 or 6) is Newark.

If you include cities of over 100k Paterson moves into second place. Our state's cities are cities and its crazy that people say they aren't just because they aren't the core of the region (even if the official name of the NY metro area is the NY-Newark-JC metro region meaning if you live in those three you don't live in the burbs and in fact are living in the city)... but oh well, guess you can only claim to be an urban resident if you live in one of the 5 boroughs (even though Staten Island is just northern Bergen County if they happened to be on an island)

JC every day of the week over BK

Jersey City is getting more and more crowded by the minute, and there's no sign that they are going to stop wedging people in here. I liked living here because it wasn't crowded and it was affordable, but nothing good lasts forever.

Literally should be the exact opposite, since the person working away has to actually commute ..

We’re full.