If the property tax keeps rising the same way it did last year, is it time to leave JC?

Submitted by moonlitway t3_10hh65i in jerseycity

My mortgage rises by $600 per month after the tax hike. I have a fixed-rate mortgage and my insurance premium stays the same, so the $600 increase is solely due to the tax increase.

Why the BOE has so much power to determine the amount of tax to be added to JC people? This system doesn’t make any sense. Is there anything we can do to change this situation? I can’t afford living in JC if the property tax keeps rising like crazy. They are taxing people to death.

If JC is adding income tax in the future on top of the crazy tax hike, I’m for sure leaving. It’s a beautiful city but I can’t stand the crazy budget increase year after year with no accountability. Anyone feeling the same?

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iamnowundercover t1_j58ov0n wrote

Are there any organizations that raise awareness against the reckless JCBOE spending? It’s ridiculous that these people don’t get voted out with how much they inconvenience tax payers. Think of how expensive property is in this city and the city takes a percentage of all those super inflated property values and somehow still manages to say it’s not enough year after year.

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moonlitway OP t1_j58vxs1 wrote

yea it baffles me how much power the JCBOE has and their complete lack of accountability.

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G_Funk_Error t1_j59gl68 wrote

Yes there are groups that warn the citizens but no one listens. They/we are called “haters”. But they/we had predicted this for more than a decade.

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Jahooodie t1_j5a9t3q wrote

I got downvotes and claims saying I didn’t care about the children.

I do care about the children, we spend far too much to have this bad of outcomes with such little oversight. Controversial I know

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moonlitway OP t1_j5ap7dr wrote

I feel you. I value education too but the results are so poor after this much spending. Demanding accountability and transparency on how the money is spent is a very fair ask.

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G_Funk_Error t1_j5ak53v wrote

The gall you have to demand we spend smartly! I’m aghast!!!

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Jahooodie t1_j5b1rm9 wrote

Hey this is Hudson county after all, maybe I just need to adjust to the local culture better. How long until I get to double dip pensions with no show consultant jobs?

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jersey385 t1_j5bomf0 wrote

They are volunteers who are out of their depth with close to a $1 billion budget. That’s just a fact. Everyone shits on them but they have have no business being in the position they are in. They have no way to to know where the corruption is or how to fix it. They are not financial experts but are expected to be. The system is BIZARRE.

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HappyArtichoke7729 t1_j5aefrn wrote

We vote for these people. Need turnout at the polls, or we're shouting into the wind.

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axk94 t1_j5j2gaj wrote

We did just re-elect some of the BOE geniuses who refused to even discuss fiscal responsibility

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Brudesandwich t1_j58gwlj wrote

Lol it WILL be increasing again. The BOE already admitted they will keep requiring more funding since the state is giving back school control to the city.

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The_Nomadic_Nerd t1_j5awuxi wrote

We had been complaining about this and campaigning hard for better BOE members last year, but people continued to vote irresponsibly.

I mean it from the bottom of my heart when I tell the people who voted horribly to go fuck themselves and they need to grow up.

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OtherBarry3 t1_j58klqe wrote

Yes of course it'll go up again this year.

On the upside the 2023-2024 school year might be the last year that NJ cuts state aid to JC? According to https://www.nj.com/hudson/2022/03/685-million-slashed-from-jersey-city-state-school-aid-while-bayonne-sees-12-million-boost.html

> Jersey City at its peak received $418.7 million in state aid for the 2016-2017 school year, but a seven-years state austerity plan that put the onus on city taxpayers to fully fund their schools began with an $8.4 million cut in aid for the 2017-2018 school year.

So if that's accurate there won't be a state cut in school aid for the 2024-2025 school year. Of course this is the JC BOE we're talking about, they'll just raise spending anyway & increase taxes in the process.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j5am4qj wrote

That’s half the story.

The other half is post pandemic conditions making teachers quit. Especially young ones. So the only option is increasing pay until enough people think it’s worth it.

Or get some court to agree to the insane idea that people with teacher’s certification can be legally compelled to serve. I don’t see that happening in NJ.

This is the next crisis. Way too many teachers left right now in the state are a couple years from retirement and that’s what’s keeping them. Many of the younger ones are revolving door teachers because some scholarships made it worth it, but even that’s been less and less.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5azgp8 wrote

Sounds like parents should move to counties with good school systems. I hear Montclair is good.

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Jahooodie t1_j5b3jnm wrote

The teacher shortage is nation wide, and in all the suburbs.

More than a few districts are starting brand new teachers currently at the the equivalent pay grade step, that teachers who started 4 or 5 years ago are at now. (For the most part this is public as public employees).

Other factor not mentioned is the polarization of politics around masks, and hard right wing groups organizing to start shit over basically anything they can. A friend got heated calls left at the school board over how they need to be fired over delivering the state mandated curriculum presentation that people being different & diverse is okay, or that handing out a mask to a kid will turn them gay because everyone knows they are treated with chemicals. Don’t blame anyone wanting to ditch out from that sorta noise happening on the regular

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5b3ydx wrote

Hmm, sounds like we need to bring in some immigrant teachers to fill that need.

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SyndicalistCPA t1_j5bgn3o wrote

Did you even read his post? Maybe we could, idk, defund the police instead of shitting on teachers, who actually provide value to a society.

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Jahooodie t1_j5b4dvt wrote

Let’s just keep doing H1B’s until we all get to stay at home, what could go wrong?

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5b53vw wrote

The kids would probably be better educated and more disciplined with foreign teachers anyway. In the good old days, a teacher’s pay wasn’t meant to be competitive with white collar pay. The pay was meant to supplement a spouse’s white collar pay.

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SyndicalistCPA t1_j5bgtwz wrote

You are an absolute fucking clown.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5blcu3 wrote

Exhibit A of terrible teaching right here^ I am sorry the education system failed you.

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SyndicalistCPA t1_j5bqet3 wrote

Your the absolute dumbass that thinks white collar workers add more value to society than teachers and teachers are supposed to supplement a spouse's pay. Lmaooo what kind fucking moron even thinks something like that let alone typing it out?

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5bs7kp wrote

Someone needs a reality check. Again, sorry your English teacher did a poor job of teaching you how to express yourself when you disagree without resorting to curse words. Teachers have never been paid “well”. If someone wants to live comfortably on a teachers income, they need to change jobs, get a second job or marry well. There are a lot of foreigners who would love to take these teaching jobs as “low” as they pay and wouldn’t complain either.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j5bywtr wrote

It's a nationwide shortage, but there's definitely hotspots. If you're entering teaching you've got your pick of districts. You can pick the nicer towns, better cost of living, better equipped schools.

This is going to be a big cost for JC in the near-ish future as current teachers age out and replacements get harder to find. You're going to have a hard time getting teachers to stay here when everyone else is offering more money to work in newer buildings with better supplies and lower cost of living. Teach in other parts of the state and you'll have a much better classroom, go home to a better place, and at the end of the month have more in your bank account.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5ccjj3 wrote

It doesn’t have to be a big cost. Bring in qualified teachers from abroad. Bonus: less woke indoctrination.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j5cg5lr wrote

So you’re being out loud with the “if they’re not white paying them less is ok”.

At least Republicans try and keep that racist crap on the DL sometimes.

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mikevago t1_j5fvgeb wrote

Word to the wise, anyone who's frothing at the mouth about "woke indoctrination" is not someone who's worth engaging with.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5ci8wy wrote

The only color I see is green. This is what the employment immigration system was created for… to fill job shortages. Jersey City school teachers are already paid better than 85% of other teachers in NJ. There are a lot of foreigners who would love to make that money instead of complaining they need more money and holding property owners hostage.

Another plus is that the foreigners on visas would probably live within the city limits and add to the economy. Sounds like a win win to me.

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pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j5cjuuj wrote

Nobody’s being held hostage. Everyone who lives here is what made it expensive to live here. Your not a hostage when you’re holding the gun.

Your just a racist asshole looking for any reason to exploit immigrants to reduce your taxes. Which I’ll point out are low for relative to distance of a large metro area on this planet. Virtually every major city has a higher total tax burden.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j5cl1y9 wrote

I love immigrants. In particular, I like immigrants who come here on work visas. That means they have a skill the US needs. 41.7% of Jersey city’s population is foreign born. Studies show that if you have a teacher that has a similar background to the child, the child tends to have better educational outcomes. I want these children to have better educational outcomes at an affordable price.

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Cuprunnethover2022 t1_j59t04m wrote

100% the taxes are going up next year, and every year after that. Meanwhile, the schools are sub-par. I don't understand. Also did not buy here for this very reason.

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micmaher99 t1_j58i2ac wrote

Probably won't be as bad as last year, but I'd be budgeting another $1k-$2k a year in tax increases for at least the next 2 years.

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PostPostMinimalist t1_j58gsv3 wrote

Definitely contributed to me not wanting to buy here. I guess prices will fall a bit, relatively.

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Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_j5c6uia wrote

OP, did YOU vote in the board elections? That would put you in the minority of JCitizens.

The whole BOE system is a disaster. Every time someone with real ability and experience has run they've been defeated by Teacher Union neophytes. Corporations put people with real business experience on their Boards of Directors, we put college kids and housewives on a board controlling a $1B budget. And then we're shocked it's a mess!

The people saying we need to pay the teachers more don't know what they're talking about. Go to the NJ dept of ed and look at the stats. We pay better than like 85% of the 93 comparable large districts.

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Successful_Pen_2387 t1_j5a928u wrote

In the whole of NJ its normal to complain about property taxes.

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YetiSherpa t1_j5a0xk1 wrote

My fixed rate mortgage also went up by more than $600 for this year. Part of it is new property taxes and the other part is to make up the escrow that was used to pay for taxes last year especially the retroactive taxes for the first two quarters. I expect the mortgage to go down next year (but still be above 2021) as the escrow will be replenished and the mortgage only reflects current taxes.

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moonlitway OP t1_j5arv4g wrote

Hoping so too, but JC BOE is a different beast so never underestimate how much $$$$ they want

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ManchurianPandaDate t1_j5g0lru wrote

Having shit that doesn’t smell very much. It’s not exactly a turn on but it goes a long way to not turn me off.

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axk94 t1_j5j2bep wrote

Spending other people’s money with zero accountability is fun. Property owners have got to pay taxes or move out, it’s not like they will vote out the BOE clowns. To the people bringing up teacher pay, it’s a great point but look up how much of that budget spend goes towards teacher pay and let’s talk about it after.

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edgertor t1_j5k9g6f wrote

absolutely feeling the same. i have lived here for 28 years and now cannot afford to live here. i weathered the reval, but barely, and this is basically putting me into apartment-poverty. i can't afford to go to the dentist and a lot of other basic needs.

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Happyjee t1_j58k2tu wrote

Tax dollars at work

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mad_dog_94 t1_j5bp9rw wrote

thats my plan. im gonna head north as soon as i save enough to get something there

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deaddabrain t1_j5cn7n9 wrote

LUXURY doesn’t come cheap

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j58s9pt wrote

Good, gtfo. And go elsewhere in NJ where the property taxes are even higher and you'll understand how low they were here in JC vs the rest of the state

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moonlitway OP t1_j58v2om wrote

Also just for context, JC sent me a 6k tax bill for Q4 alone (yep just Q4) last year and I’m paying about 12,000 in property tax for just a 1 bed condo, and it’s increasing again. You think this amount is “how low they were in JC” ???

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G_Funk_Error t1_j59gpfd wrote

Yes JC has one of the lowest property tax rates in the state.

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moonlitway OP t1_j58urf3 wrote

lol if I leave JC due to tax, why would I choose to live elsewhere in NJ? I would just leave NJ.

Also it’s not a good comparison, because the property value of JC is already high. If you apply a 5% tax rate like some of the rest counties to JC, that would be about 30k of tax per year.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j58x543 wrote

Because they were already higher than what JC was paying, so a "5% hike" wasn't necessary. Now JC is paying closer to the rates they are now.

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moonlitway OP t1_j58xh47 wrote

I’m saying it’s not reasonable to apply the same rate to JC because JC’s property value is already high. You think 30k property tax would be fair for a 1B condo?

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GoHuskies1984 t1_j59yklz wrote

$30K taxes on a 1B condo you say?

I got you

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moonlitway OP t1_j5amy8u wrote

What’s the point you are making? The place you linked here is a 3M condo over 1000 sqft in nyc, yet its property tax is about 30k a year. That actually shows the ny property tax is lower than nj, because if you look at the same price of property in nj, the tax will be more than doubled more so around 60k

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GoHuskies1984 t1_j5ao0et wrote

Relax. It's a joke.

But are seriously telling us your taxes on a 1B are about to be $30K annually, because something about that isn't right.

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moonlitway OP t1_j5aqeuo wrote

it’s not 30k per year. I can’t afford living here if it’s 30k for 1B. It’s 12k but might be increasing again this year.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j58ykga wrote

I think that's your problem for living in LUXURY HOUSING.

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moonlitway OP t1_j595k88 wrote

lol my building is by no means luxury. Don’t make false assumptions. the price got inflated during Covid. If you enjoy higher property tax, good for you and I’m sure you’ll be happy as you see tax keeps increasing in the next few years.

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Mindless-Budget9019 t1_j59yeq0 wrote

Don’t feed the trolls. They aren’t educated enough to know that the point of taxation is how much money is brought in and not the percentage of property value being taxed.

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moonlitway OP t1_j5ao82v wrote

yea they don’t get the point and even begin to claim I live in luxury housing lmao. Luxury buildings have tax abatements and pay lower tax than I do.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j5asldm wrote

I'm fine with it. I'm in a rent-controlled building that I've been living in since the 80s. Y'all can deuce right on out.

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PostPostMinimalist t1_j5bcvve wrote

But why should JC property taxes be the same as elsewhere in NJ? That's like saying NJ should lower taxes because in the rest of the country they are lower. JC is quite a different place from the NJ suburbs.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j5ccqk7 wrote

Until we fund public schools differently than based on property taxes, the schools will be massively underfunded compared to the rest of the state. The state was supplying Jersey City with money to make up the difference. That flow is over. I would rather tax the fuck out of every single condo owner, luxury building developer, etc. etc. than underfund our schools

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bodhipooh t1_j5eeheh wrote

You are confused. We don’t have a funding problem. We are currently spending just shy of a BILLION dollars to teach 30K students, or about 33K dollars per pupil. That’s the highest in the State, among the highest (if not outright highest) in the nation. So, definitely not a funding proble, but rather a spending problem.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j5fdsuy wrote

You are a mix of both wrong and confused. While there's obviously tons of waste shipped off to every consultant in the books, that's not limited to JC or even NJ. It's obviously bullshit that places waste so much money, but again, that's a feature of everywhere and not limited to education spending, either.

Now as to where you're flat out wrong. All school spending here in NJ goes basically by size of district. Newark is #1 at $1,118,199,359.9. JC is 2, Union City 3, etc. When you have a large district, you have large spending.

Now on a per student basis, here's where JC falls on the lists of education spending. 168th. $27,225 per student. In fairness, we should eliminate the 8 special services ones, which bumps JC up to 160. Even your guess of "about 33k" would put it at 44th in the state (36th without the services ones).

Data here: https://www.nj.gov/education/guide/2022/

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bodhipooh t1_j5fvvox wrote

Dude, you are using data that is terribly outdated. Those figures are from FY2021. Not sure if you are purposefully ignoring what has transpired since then, or if you are simply clueless about the dramatic budget increase approved by our BOE last year. When faced with state cuts and a necessary increase in the school levy, they quite literally decided to simultaneously increase the total budget by over 15%. Our current per pupil spending is just shy of 33K. That’s not a guess. That’s a fact.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j5g5wlk wrote

Those are the newest figures as released by the state that google showed to me, as the post was made in 2022. You're WELCOME to post actual data from FY22 from the state that contradicts it. Go for it.

I even addressed the issue that if your statement of $33k per was real, it doesn't mean a fucking thing.

<you>

>about 33K dollars per pupil. That’s the highest in the State, among the highest (if not outright highest) in the nation.

<facts>

>Even your guess of "about 33k" would put it at 44th in the state (36th without the services ones).

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bodhipooh t1_j5gv634 wrote

>Those are the newest figures as released by the state that google showed to me, as the post was made in 2022. You're WELCOME to post actual data from FY22 from the state that contradicts it. Go for it.

You have just proved that you are intellectually dishonest if you think that data about our local BOE can only be considered if made available through a state website. The JC BOE budget is public knowledge. That you can't wrap your mind (or accept the fact) that the budget is just shy of 1 BILLION DOLLARS (973 MM to be precise, something that is public knowledge and widely reported all over) and that we only have ~30,000 students is a you problem. Those figures are fact.

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DirectorBeneficial48 t1_j5ibjy9 wrote

Hoss, I've said this three times now, it doesn't mean a fucking thing that it's $33k/per. That puts JC as 36th/44th in the state, depending on whether or not you include special districts.

Your entire premise (JeRsEy CiTy PaYs MoRe ThAn AnYwHeRe ElSe) is bullshit.

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