Submitted by moobycow t3_10g1umk in jerseycity
anubis2051 t1_j50r50v wrote
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They're public roads, you can't tell out of towners they can't use them, especially if the city takes state highway funds. Other towns have already been sued and lost over this.
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We really need a JC/Hoboken only divided lane on 78 and 139. This would make it far easier for locals to access those parts of town without worrying about the Holland Tunnel traffic.
nasty_brutish_longer t1_j5168fi wrote
No one is proposing pulling a Leonia. The likeliest action would be traffic calming like lane-width reduction and sidewalk bulbouts on city-owned streets. Tunnel traffic will still filter through the city, but at lower speed, reducing the effectiveness of the shortcut.
It's the best we can do, and it's why the turnpike widening would be a disaster for us.
There's also the oft-bandied idea of a surcharge for anyone who enters the tunnel within an hour of exiting 14 b or c. That won't happen, of course, because the Turnpike authority wants cars to filter through here. We're a traffic repository to them.
anubis2051 t1_j51dksz wrote
> There's also the oft-bandied idea of a surcharge for anyone who enters the tunnel within an hour of exiting 14 b or c. That won't happen, of course, because the Turnpike authority wants cars to filter through here. We're a traffic repository to them.
I don't love this because, hypothetically, I swing by and pick up a friend in JC, then I get hit with a surcharge? Or need to stop and get something at home and head in to work?
Blecher_onthe_Hudson t1_j51etib wrote
Yes, your rare edge case would be collateral casualty. Many laws have them.
nasty_brutish_longer t1_j51fjue wrote
I don't love it because, let's face it, enough people would be willing to pay the charge to clog our streets anyway. And they'll feel entitled to a shorter trip, at greater risk to anyone using a crosswalk.
But I can comfortably guarantee we'll never see it enacted. The NJTA likes our overflow capacity too much to let that happen. We're not a city to them, we're a customer queuing space.
rubensinclair t1_j510hq3 wrote
Number 2 is a genius idea but impossible to enforce.
anubis2051 t1_j511oec wrote
It shouldn't be that hard, you can put in those plastic divider things, or even a hard wall, and good signage. You could even put in barriers that prevent going to the tunnel from them.
I can't tell you how many hours of my life I've wasted on 78 waiting for Holland traffic to move just so I can turn off...
GoHuskies1984 t1_j52chnx wrote
This is what the 11th street flyover could have been.
Like you said mark it off earlier as downtown JC ONLY then add an off ramp into Hamilton Park and Marvin Blvd.
anubis2051 t1_j52lf0v wrote
How would this have worked?
GoHuskies1984 t1_j52mrwk wrote
The current elevators flyover connects directly to Newport and the mall garage. If designers had more foresight we could have added additional exits and even an elevated ramp crossing over for Hoboken traffic.
anubis2051 t1_j52okay wrote
Got it, so basically run along the old rail bridges by embankment house, and connect to 78 over there, or even further back, and 139 at Palisade Ave?
imaluckyduckie t1_j51slgm wrote
It was there all those years when they were doing construction on the Pulaski
NewNewark t1_j51k56w wrote
You cant ban people but you can discourage them. IE, speed bumps, mandatory right turns, one-ways that go opposite ways etc. No problem for residents but basically kills cut-through, especially the ones sent by Waze
anubis2051 t1_j51uy13 wrote
I mean, that would drive me nuts as a resident...
pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j528yz1 wrote
You can't block them, but you can make life hell for them.
For example, you can ticket everyone who doesn't clear the intersection each time the light changes. Yes, even if you're blocked for a whole light, you can get 2 tickets for not making it out. NYC used to do this aggressively during the "don't block the box" campaign. Get 2 tickets in under 5 minutes and news travels fast.
Really Fulop screwed over JC. We could have changed NJ's laws to prevent through traffic on local streets, something many states prohibit in exchange for the extra lane on 78, which at the end of the day does nothing to JC given it's existing right of way. It's the local traffic that's actually a problem. Force traffic to stay on the highway and there's really no issue. That would have easily worked itself out in Trenton. There's a lot of towns with similar issues.
But now we'll all get a good shot at 4-8 years of Fulop for governor. Which is what people really want around here. The traffic is a sacrifice many are ok with.
moobycow OP t1_j54s1yg wrote
Do you have any evidence that we could have changed the laws? I'm not arguing it's a bad idea, but is it something you think could have actually gone through?
NJ fucking hates urban areas, I am skeptical that the votes exist to get rid of through traffic anywhere.
pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j553jxo wrote
It’s not just urban areas with this problem. There’s dozens of towns that are “shortcuts” between two highways or ways to avoid some tolls.
A fair number of mayors supported Leonia because they have a similar issue.
moobycow OP t1_j555623 wrote
I think it's a good idea, I'd love to see it, but if enough people supported Leonia then that should have been a catalyst to get something done, it wasn't.
NJ is a car first state, we can't agree that congestion pricing into NYC is a good idea and our Gov and other state politicians are trying to widen a highway through a city with no pushback from anyone outside JC.
We can't get state and county roads to have any design other than 'more room for cars', the State DOT is actively antagonistic to complete streets in towns.
I hope/wish you are correct that this is something that could get done, but I don't see it.
pixel_of_moral_decay t1_j555zaj wrote
NJ is pretty sensible for the most part.
NJ’s objection to congestion pricing is largely that it’s a tax on NJ while we still have to donate billions to the MTA via federal tax dollars. On top of that NY has been absolutely obstructionist in mass transit between states. They torpedoed the ARC project for new tunnels by capping what they’d contribute to the project and spent decades fighting replacing port authority bus terminal. Even with a new terminal proposed it’s still not as big as NJ wants so it can have more buses. Which is presumably so it doesn’t eat away at congestion pricing revenue, because they’d have to make up the losses via other taxes or program cuts.
NYC pretends to be much more pro transit than it really is. It’s mostly a tax grift.
Could have had new tunnels for NJ Transit and a massively expanded bus system. But NYC shot that down. Don’t forget that.
moobycow OP t1_j55fgob wrote
NYC doesn't run their own transit system, so that doesn't help. It's worth keeping in mind that NY State also fucking hates NYC and their Governors have been pretty actively antagonistic toward the city for most of all of our lives.
jersey-city-park t1_j52fmc2 wrote
Move the holland tunnel entrance/exit to coles street.
anubis2051 t1_j52k35x wrote
Not sure I follow?
jersey-city-park t1_j53gfsa wrote
Move the exit/entrance of the holland tunnel to coles street and only allow drivers on the turnpike/139 to enter the holland tunnel
anubis2051 t1_j53glez wrote
Doesn’t that kill the approach to people going to Hoboken and North JC? How are they supposed to get there?
jersey-city-park t1_j53kcxs wrote
New exits. Point is you have to be on the turnpike or 139 to enter the holland, cant take new hoboken exit and try to circumvent
anubis2051 t1_j53lgaj wrote
New Exits is easy to say, but the approach has a ton of buildings on both sides. How do you propose getting around that? And the traffic that crosses the approach?
jersey-city-park t1_j53oiwh wrote
Im sure they’ll figure it out lmao not sure why you think im the lead engineer
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