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While I do not disagree with your statements, one work around would be to have the disruptive student come to school and be in their own room being taught. They would get the one on one, no distractions, working on their school work deficiencies, eat lunch at their desk, and being picked up by a parent if possible.

They would be removed from the other students who want to be there, yet it is not a free day off falling more behind. When they are caught up to the class they can rejoin them.

I don’t believe you one bit. You’re using a throw away account and not providing any supporting evidence. You are probably a troll who’s in the pocket of the “private school” people. Prove me wrong.

Suspension really isn't a consequence anyway tbh. More like a mini vacation.

"We are teaching kids there are no consequences and they continue to disrupt the learning of the other 30 kids in the room"

Oh sweetie. That's been going on for DECADES now.

Suspensions have been proven to have little to no effect on at risk students. Those having issues IN school are unlikely to be bettered by allowing them to just not be in school. And secondary “send suspended kids here” institutions are just daycares.

Yea the school system is suffering but saying it’s not penal enough is your misunderstanding of the system on the whole. I have lived in and among ISS and OSS districts with high non compliance penalization and all it does is piss off the teachers because of increases in bureaucracy

What anti-suspension law? Link?

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXII/Chapter71/Section37H3~4

Admin have been using suspensions freely or not depending on their inclinations for a long time. The law is MA makes suspensions without an attempt to re-engage the students a thing of the past. See https://vdhboston.com/massachusetts-legislature-amends-student-discipline-law/

Right. It is a law from 2012. Nothing new.

I also thought schools weren’t babysitters or supposed to be parents? So are schools supposed to “hold the line” or not?

It's called "In-House" suspension. Do schools not have this anymore? Do schools not have a dedicated room for this? It worked back in the 90s, add a cop and it would work today.

Edit: For those who never had this, let me explain how it worked. You went to school and reported to (or were sent to) the In-House suspension room. Desks were arraigned around the perimeter of the room right up against the wall and facing the wall. There were office type partitions between the desks. There was no talking or interacting with others and video games were banned. Your teachers were notified of your IHS and could send you class work if necessary. School lunch orders were taken by the attendant and delivered. Three 4 minute bathroom breaks were spread across the school day between periods.

Sounds like having 30 kids in the room is part of the issue. WTF.

Nothing is real and eveything is a conspiracy

So how do you get disruptive kids out of the classroom so the rest of the class can learn?
We already know that our country has a failed mental health system, and a lot of these kids are walking around with untreated mental disorders. How do teachers/administrators deal with kids who can't behave in a classroom setting to avoid having 30 kids who aren't learning?

You need to address the root cause of what makes them "disruptive."

Punish the "bad, thug kids," not "my little angel, Joseph Mengele Aryan Nation Hitler Goebbels Jr."

>r

They're teachers. They are not mental health professionals. Some of them may have 90 kids to teach a subject, papers to grade, lesson plans to write, ect.
In a perfect world, they could call the parents and have them deal with it. Or have a guidance counselor to help.
It's 11:05. Johnny just smacked lisann in the back of the head, and is screaming at the top of his lungs. You tell him to stop but he just yells "make me"! This is the fifth time in three weeks that he has done something similar. Now what?

So hire an extra teacher for every disruptive student?

They have this still but at some schools you basically just sit there doing whatever you want all day

I'm not saying the teachers have to, the system does.

In school suspension is the way. Or, make the kids stay to do chores after school.

It was recently amended to make suspensions more difficult for administrators to implement.

Also they not good at word writings.

I'm sure there are substitutes that can do the job.

What correction is accomplished if the child just stays home, not to mention their need to learn whether they like it or not.

You just might turn the disruptive ones into better students or is that not the goal?

Maybe burnout has gotten to you throwaway OP. Calling kids "failed", as if their grade is the most important indicator of whether they are or will contribute to society, or the weasel words and strawman kind of arguments, makes it seem like maybe you're just done worn out with teaching.

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As a former teacher, I can appreciate your sentiment here. It's so frustrating to see kids do whatever the hell they want with no real consequences or support to improve. I don't think suspensions are the answer but in a day to day setting, I have to say that when the tougher kids were suspended, it made teaching WAY easier.

The system is a failure but I see a lot of the commenters ignoring that the day to day toll on teachers is immense. We signed up to teach, not to be counselors, second parents, physical protectors and to give up our mental and physical health. While suspension fails to support those students who are struggling and acting out, it does allow the rest of the class to move on and learn in a safe environment.

ISS no electronics.

Honestly I don’t have a fantastic answer here as much as I wish I did. Better/more effective in school counseling. More direct/personal interaction to figure out where the individuals interest lies or how to redirect that angst or emotion. Earlier intervention to identify the source of an issue before it necessitates suspension. Or even just interacting in a way that says “you don’t want to be here fine but don’t be an asshole and ruin this for everyone else.”

There’s no easy answer unfortunately. That being said, suspensions are proven not to help. So leaning on a broken system to fix a broken system doesn’t make a lot of sense

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Here's the as-amended version:

>(b) (effective November 8, 2022)
Any principal, headmaster, superintendent or person acting as a decision-maker at a student meeting or hearing, when deciding the consequences for the student, shall consider ways to re-engage the student in the learning process; and shall not suspend or expel a student until alternative remedies have been employed and their use and results documented, following and in direct response to a specific incident or incidents, unless specific reasons are documented as to why such alternative remedies are unsuitable or counter-productive, and in cases where the student’s continued presence in school would pose a specific, documentable concern about the infliction of serious bodily injury or other serious harm upon another person while in school. Alternative remedies may include, but shall not be limited to: (i) mediation; (ii) conflict resolution; (iii) restorative justice; and (iv) collaborative problem solving. The principal, headmaster, superintendent or person acting as a decision-maker shall also implement school- or district-wide models to re-engage students in the learning process which shall include but not be limited to: (i) positive behavioral interventions and supports models and (ii) trauma sensitive learning models; provided, however, that school- or district-wide models shall not be considered a direct response to a specific incident.

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The attitude you're displaying is part of the problem

Been through the process? It takes months. Referrals, appointments, and meetings. IF YOU'RE LUCKY. That's IF you have parents willing to participate, IF you have a school system with resources to do the work, and IF you can get the parents to take them to a pediatrician for assessment $$$.
I'm not saying that we need the schools going all Florida and having police yank 5 YOs out in handcuffs. Kids who are having uncontrollable outbursts or are violent need to NOT be returned to the classroom until that's dealt with.
Keep in mind that resources in schools are tight. If a kid has to be removed and kept in the school, there is zero chance they will be in a room by themselves. There simply isn't enough staff. So you are back to the Alternative/daycare model or as it was termed back in the 70's when I was in one, the "Special ed" room.

I'm pretty comfortable saying that in general, out of school suspension is

A. not a consequence for a legitimate trouble maker

B. simply allows school and staff to ignore the actual problem

C. Kicks the can down the road because the kid who can't stay out of trouble in school, who doesn't end up getting a good education because after x number of suspensions he inevitably drops out, simply becomes a problem for society in general

Don't get me wrong. I feel you. I 100% support school teachers, teacher's unions, and public schools. I *believe* in public education.

You wanna strike because your district has an unmitigated discipline problem? I'll be right there next to you holding a sign.

But you're making a mistake and conflating suspension with effective discipline. It ISNT. Evidence on that is pretty damn clear.

Bring in more staff. Make sure classes are small and paras are plentiful. Create an environment of mutual respect and trust. Protect the kids who really want to learn. But don't just kick out the problem kiddos. There's got to be a better solution.

I was bullied and the administration did nothing. I once had a pocket knife pulled on me and they did nothing

The one time I got assaulted and then beat the fuck out of the kid, I was labeled the problem. The kid I fucked up went in to commit arson and destruction of property, but I’m the asshole apparently

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Teachers union is to blame and culture has taken a turn for the worst. People are nasty more than ever as opposed to 30 years ago. No respect for authority

I teach at an international school overseas, and I was thinking about coming back to Mass to teach. Is it really that bad? Would I be better off only looking at private and charter schools?

Zero tolerance policies and shitty parents are the problem.

My kids are all in public school and I couldn’t agree more. These fuck head trouble maker kids ruin it for everyone.

We called it “internal” or “external” suspension, and the last step was expulsion.

Schools dont have the staffing and space.

Had no clue any such laws had passed. Doesn't sound good

I call bullshit. You made an account solely to post this one specific thing in the Mass subreddit rather than a teaching subreddit, with zero post history. My money is on some affiliation with a political opponent of the law you referenced

The schools are afraid of lawsuits? How about cameras that cover every square inch of the schools with the exception of locker rooms, bath rooms and faculty areas. If a kid is guilty of unacceptable behavior the school will have a recording to show the parents or the courts if the parents decide to sue. In addition to cameras there should be a three strikes you're out forever. The onus should be on the parents to make sure the kid behaves or have to find an alternative education venue. Public schools are for all students and for those who want to learn, their education and safety should come first. Why cater to these idiots who aren't getting anything out the education that's be offered to them anyway. Put them out on the streets, it's where they want to be and will end up anyway. I know many educators who are demoralized by the politics over sanity in our schools. The consensus is they're just running out the clock until they can retire. Doing the bare minimum in the classrooms, quietly quitting. Among them there are some who are pursuing other employment. We need to legislate all of this unnecessary BS out of the schools.

It's a consequence for the parents.

I agree, suspensions did next to nothing for kids who got em, and less than nothing for kids who didn’t and has those kids in class with them. If kids don’t want to learn, they won’t, if kids do want to learn they will. I was an achieving student with friends who weren’t and segregated from me, I learned a lot from those friends and wouldn’t have done as well at life without them, don’t try to control the world with these weird ideologies

It varies widely from district to district and school to school. But be wary of working for a charter school, they can be quite exploitive of their staff.

This is laughable...re-engage the student. Can't ya just slap the shit out of them? Lol. Don't want to learn? GTFO! Act like an animal at school? Parents problem

Since cops are quitting/ leaving/retiring from Democrat run cities in droves they figure its time teachers get accustomed to being corrections officers & cops. Have fun with that

In Massachusetts? Calling bs on that for most schools.

The unions are getting sneaky with shill posts

I figure that would be the case even in public schools.

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Yes it is. The parents feel it.

Growing up, I couldn't stand the disruptive kids. They always drove me crazy. I can't image what it's like now.

Hey man I don’t mean to break it to you, but your job’s a joke. Should there be a rigorous mandatory education process and disciplinary code of conduct? Why, so we can have super educated burger jockies wallowing in the irony of their existential dread and failure, broken spirited by the system we paid to mold them? High school education doesn’t get you anywhere in the workforce, so how seriously do you expect people to take it? It’s as worthless as the students that’re being subjected to it, if society is any indication. Wah wah wah, I can’t castigate the kids with difficult behaviors and my interpersonal skills are dogshit, if I’m not given unconditional authority I’m taking my ruler and going home. Good riddance.

It can be, but I've seen that teachers at charters often have even fewer protections.

First, cops aren't leaving in droves. See HEREfor a more measured take. Second, the violent crime rate has been dropping for decades. NYC, for instance, long a Democratic stronghold, has become a very safe place to live -- safer than Indianapolis.

Perhaps we don't need as many of those cops as we used to. Perhaps municipalities can spend the money more usefully on other services.

I take it you have never seen a school official deal with a parent who has hired a lawyer. Do you know how much your local district has had to spend to deal with lawsuits brought by parents?

How do you force schools to be accountable when you yourself cite that there is limited staff and resources? Magic?

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Schools must step up and run a parallel supervised track.

The statute was created, because more than a few districts abandoned the young people to semi-permanent suspension, and there was no learning progress for these I individuals over the course of years.

Basically the population requires a variety of a special needs program.

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And typically no union

There's so many things wrong with our education system that penalizing disruptive kids with no alternatives is ultimately the problem. More has to be done for both students and teachers. I am not expecting today's educators to recognize psychological or sensory issues but we are programming alot individuals to hate systems like school. Most end up going to check on friends or get something to eat in the end. Leaving the student bitter, unproductive and utterly dangerous at today's standards.

So what happens when more often than not the funding is not there? All the special ed teachers I know have grueling schedules and gigantic case loads. It is moronic to think it's a lack of will.

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Administrators, of-course, in many school districts have advocated for larger budgets for years and haven't gotten it. Cities and towns often vote no on the necessary budgets to run these schools. These reserve funds you speak of are paltry compared to what is really needed. Now what? It's easy to make mandates, but no one wants to fund them.

>stigmatizing

Knucklehead?

You trolling us right now?

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This is included in the law. It’s ANY suspension, even the in-school ones, which is why the law is ridiculous.

There’s no replacement for the consequence though. Schools don’t have the trained personnel to counsel these at-risk kids who probably need a psychiatrist and some type of medication.

Most kids that get suspended don’t see it as a consequence. If you’re acting up so poorly that you require a suspension chances are that you don’t see being told that you’re mandated to skip school as a punishment

Open letter non-compliance then. If no schools comply there will be no enforcement. Spitting on the sidewalk is against the law in places. Not so much enforced. Ditto tailgating on highway

Honestly, getting the kid out of the classroom for a day is for the other 25 kids in the room and the teacher. For example, if a kid was using abusive language toward another student or a teacher, having a breathing day without that kid in the room to possibly do it again is a much needed break for everyone.

Missed my notification to your reply. I’ve worked in 3 districts in 10 years and have family who teach in eastern MA as well as many friends and colleagues still teaching in the area. Staffing shortages are at all levels. Admin, classroom teachers, and support. We’ve become accustomed to large classroom sizes with fewer teachers. Most classrooms are used throughout the day so there is not space or the people for in house suspension.