Submitted by Figwit_ t3_119j9e9 in massachusetts
It's a little out of control, especially when no other state in NE charges anywhere close to such high rates for out of staters.
Comments
TheBoxSloth t1_j9odgtp wrote
Is that why they do it? I never actually knew the reason
AnyRound5042 t1_j9rei3v wrote
obviously not. its an amenity that residents pay for through taxes. idk if you have looked at your taxes lately but youre paying a lot. why should someone who didnt contribute anything get in at dramatically less cost? thats why the out of state rate is a little higher
Figwit_ OP t1_j9rkg7g wrote
I guess our definitions of "a little" are different. 300% more doesn't fall within my definition of "a little"
AnyRound5042 t1_j9rsqur wrote
oh im sorry, did they charge you $400?
Figwit_ OP t1_j9mvzwm wrote
But this is tourism money. The state doesn't want tourism dollars to come in?
BovaDesnuts t1_j9mw7tw wrote
Tourists spend whatever they want, and the state doesn't care about Tourists that don't go to Boston. Prices need to be low for Bostonians who want to go camping.
Remember, 2/3rds of all votes in MA come from the Boston Metro. Everything the state does is in service of Bostonians. Worcester, WMA, and the entire world only matter when Boston can't agree
Cheap_Coffee t1_j9o0nls wrote
Right, so we'd prefer you stay in hotels and eat in restaurants.
pccb123 t1_j9og44n wrote
Wouldnt say MA doesnt want it, but MA doesnt rely on it as much as say, Maine.
[deleted] t1_j9q2wm1 wrote
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bobmcrobber t1_j9mj45i wrote
It might have to do with the fact that our campgrounds are kept really well compared to the ones in other states. Also, the ones on the cape are usually more expensive due to them being extremely popular
tapakip t1_j9p3io4 wrote
Which ones aren't kept as well? Genuinely curious. I've stayed at some out of state ones in the past and all have been on par with our own.
bobmcrobber t1_j9p4vsj wrote
Rhode island and Connecticut. Vermont is kinda a mixed bag
tapakip t1_j9p5dnu wrote
Ahh, good to know. NY around Lake George has been good for us, as has the appalachian trail locations, and then basically any site headed across the country to the west coast, since there's a lot of room out there.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9mwmjw wrote
I doubt it has anything to do with how well the campgrounds are kept. Let's say New Hampshire were to triple the prices for non-residents at their state parks. Everyone in Mass would cry bloody murder about it.
Edit- downvote all you want my friends, you know it's true.
deadliftothersup t1_j9mxqe1 wrote
Nah, Baxter State park in Maine only has entry fees for out of state residents and is free for residents so technically infinitely higher. I don't think people would flip out since you don't really hear anyone flip out about Baxter.
Despite tourism not being our main economy, MA has more total tourist visiting than either NH or ME each year. They don't really need to lure out of state folks into the campgrounds for the economy.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9mzl0e wrote
People aren't flipping out about 1 park in the deep backwoods of Maine and so you think people wouldn't be upset about the whole state of NH tripling the camping rates? Hmm ok.
somegridplayer t1_j9o9foa wrote
You just called Baxter "one park in the deep backwoods of Maine"
Take the L and move on dude.
pccb123 t1_j9oeshp wrote
"One park in the deep backwoods of Maine" to describe one of the most amazing pieces of perserved lands we've got hurt my soul lol
somegridplayer t1_j9oex5v wrote
He's gonna call Cape Cod National Seashore "just a small beach" next. I guarantee it.
deadliftothersup t1_j9nh1c8 wrote
It's the terminus of the AT and a pretty important state park for out of staters because of that, but ultimately it's just an example where no one is really complaining even about that park specifically.
Local and out of state/town differential rates can be found in a lot of things beyond camping sites. If your issue is the exact differential in this case rather than the concept than what is your ideal ratio?
TecumsehSherman t1_j9ok1ej wrote
I would pay money for the whole state of New Hampshire to pack up and move to Utah.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9oljql wrote
I think the majority of your neighbors in Mass disagree. Folks from Mass can't seem to get out of your state fast enough every Friday afternoon.
That's fine though, we just need a $50 toll on 93 coming into NH and we can call it even.
TecumsehSherman t1_j9oma40 wrote
Remember when you guys created a crazy libertarian community that drowned in trash and got attacked by bears?
Or when you were asked with coming up with your most distinguishing feature as a State to put on the New Hampshire quarter, and all you could come up with a rock that kind of looked like a face from just the right angle. And then it promptly collapsed! That was amazing.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9p8yh5 wrote
Yeah, I actually agree with both those things being stupid and crazy. Seriously though, who the fuck cares about a rock that sort of looks like a dudes head? And it's everywhere!
Edit: we should be able to criticize ourselves and where we live without getting too defensive. NH has some fucked up policies and people up here, no doubt. Mass does some wacky shit sometimes, too. Maybe not quite as wacky as NH, but wacky still.
BenEsq t1_j9oazjb wrote
Part of our fee as MA residents is paid by our taxes. Ypu dont pay MA taxes, so you should pay more. I would expect to pay more if I went to a campground out of state.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9od6qn wrote
As would I. I'm not upset about paying more per se. I'm upset that Mass charges about 3X more for out of state residents. I think it's a little bit crazy that so many MA residents enjoy the state park systems of other nearby states but then turn around and charge crazy prices for others to go there.
[deleted] t1_j9pg4rh wrote
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Figwit_ OP t1_j9pgm9u wrote
Thanks for this helpful contribution
biddily t1_j9njbnu wrote
so, MA use to have 'camp hosts'. Someone would camp for free and in return they would be responsible for cleaning the nearby bathroom everyday. It means some bathrooms were cleaner than others, but it worked and someone camped for free.
During covid they stopped using hosts. Things went shitballs for 2 years. for one, available campsites got cut in half, and for two they hired outside cleaners to clean all the bathrooms.
Since then, while all the sites have opened back up, they havent gone back to using host campers. they are continuing to have cleaners clean the facilities.
As far as I'm aware the other states are still using host campers.
Icy-Neck-2422 t1_j9o2glh wrote
Last spring NH had to lock the gates at one state park after people from Lowell and Lawrence trashed the place.
biddily t1_j9niy38 wrote
We partially pay for the state parks through our tax dollars. out of state residents do not.
Do you know how hard it is to get a site at the good state campgrounds? Oh my fucking god. It's a NIGHTMARE. We have to have 7 people on 7 computers trying exactly at 8 am 6 months before we want the site (when the campsite goes live), and MAYBE one of us will get a site before they all get sold out. Its insane.
AND THEN. AND THEN.
When we get there that summer half the sites are empty. People rent out for the week and only come for the weekends. Or they book it 6 months out but they want to keep it flexible so they later cancel when they make better plans or figure out what they're doing. Cause camping is still cheaper than everything else. In state or out of state. It makes booking and planning ahead for the summer SO STUPID for those of who know we want to be there.
I've been camping at Nickerson State Park in Brewster every single summer for 35 years now. Its gotten fucking INFURIATING to have to fight to book a site - compromise on a site we don't really want but we'll take what we can get - and then get there for 2 weeks and have no one around you. The ideal perfect site be completely empty but booked by someone who never showed up.
So yeah. Raise the price for out of state people if helps stop this bullshit from happening.
Cheap_Coffee t1_j9o0fya wrote
>We partially pay for the state parks through our tax dollars. out of state residents do not.
>
>Do you know how hard it is to get a site at the good state campgrounds?
Quoted for truth.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9odem3 wrote
Do you know how hard it is for New Hampshire residents to find campsites out our popular state parks in the mountains? They're always filled with people from MA. And yet we don't charge you 3X what it costs us.
exactlyw t1_j9omj6v wrote
maybe if you had a sales tax you could afford more state park amenities
Figwit_ OP t1_j9pecli wrote
If we charged what you charge for state parks, we'd be able to have in-ground pools with waterslides at every campsite.
AnyRound5042 t1_j9rdwdk wrote
bro you live in new hampshire. damn near the whole state is free camping as long as youre 200 feet from the road/trail and 800(?) feet from water. why the fuck are you getting so bent out of shape when you literally have a protected right to camp literally amlost anywhere in one of the most beautiful landscapes on the planet and you want to come bum it up in Massachusetts?
BlimeySlimeySnake t1_j9y4po5 wrote
Maybe you should be then
throwsplasticattrees t1_j9o9iex wrote
This is frustrating. If there a refund for cancelling a reservation? If the site is paid for and unused, is it really different than if it is paid for and used?
The problem is when the door is reserved and then cancelled without penalty.
biddily t1_j9ojiae wrote
The state uses reserve America, the federal camps site. A lot of the problems stem from the rules of reserve America.
They don't charge fees or penalties. It's the worst site ever. I wish the campgrounds stopped using them.
throwsplasticattrees t1_j9oo9kl wrote
I agree. I like the reservation system in general. First come, first served has it's merits, but can also be anxiety inducing to plan around. I feel like the reservation should be non-refundable to prevent space saving. It is very frustrating to arrive at a campground and find sites empty but reserved.
I've used a reserved site for a single night when rolling in late on a Friday night. It's like people reserve Friday for an arrival on Saturday. I don't do it out of habit, but when it's 10 PM and it's empty and I plan to be out by sunrise, I don't see the issue.
biddily t1_j9opggr wrote
I will say, I have booked an extra day on the back end (a Monday) because being packed up and out of a site by 11am is ROUGH. especially if you've been there for 2 weeks. Having the full Sunday to clear up and get out is ideal, and sometimes I'm willing to pay for the extra night for that. I do check out Sunday, so the site opens up if someone shows up wanting it for the nite. But I need more time than 11am.
tapakip t1_j9p3yi0 wrote
I don't think anyone begrudges you doing that.
tapakip t1_j9p3pir wrote
It is now 4 months before and 9am, but your point remains.
EzualRegor t1_j9pkqxq wrote
A good campsite can definitely make for a more enjoyable trip. Empty sites that are a massive upgrade sucks.
BlimeySlimeySnake t1_j9y4oge wrote
>Oh my fucking god. It's a NIGHTMARE. We have to have 7 people on 7 computers trying exactly at 8 am 6 months before we want the site (when the campsite goes live), and MAYBE one of us will get a site before they all get sold out.
Certain sites are only letting you book 4 months in advance now
gnamyl t1_j9mv61x wrote
Rhode Island charges 2x for out of staters (I am a MA resident who lives close to RI camps) What do you think is an appropriate “slightly higher rate”? Not trying to be antagonistic seriously what are you thinking would work? Would 2x like RI be ok?
Figwit_ OP t1_j9mwtbg wrote
I think 2x is a little bit high as well. I think an extra $5 or $10 per night would be more appropriate.
gnamyl t1_j9my6z6 wrote
Well. I’m on your side. It’s not going to change but I’m in agreement with you. Fishing licenses are the same as I recall (haven’t bought one in years but CT wanted some huge amount of extra money for me as a MA resident and I live like 1 mile from the border)
sporky211 t1_j9pemnp wrote
I believe you can use your license in certain lakes, i was just looking to renew my license this morning actually.
As of Feb. 17, 2011, Massachusetts has reciprocity agreements with:
New Hampshire: MA to NH and NH to MA
Rhode Island: MA to RI and RI to MA
Connecticut: MA to CT and CT to MA
Maine: MA to ME only
bignose703 t1_j9qd7jw wrote
A NH 3 day out of state fishing license is roughly the same as a full year resident license.
H2Omekanic t1_j9n2zij wrote
Because with a lot of out of state visitors they incur maintenance and staff expenses that State and/or town residents have already paid for through taxes.
andi-pandi t1_j9n5oev wrote
This
A_Man_Who_Writes t1_j9oayii wrote
Because they can. Simple as that. MA has no shortage of tourists. People complain about crowds in other states; well, MA can get pretty gosh darn crowded May-October.
guitangled t1_j9n7ox7 wrote
My guess would be because we have higher taxes here, which subsidize it for our residents.
tapakip t1_j9p43cm wrote
We get a bad rep for that. We're almost smack dab in the middle for tax burdens.
guitangled t1_j9pm4cb wrote
Thank you, I will check it out.
sad0panda t1_j9mopk1 wrote
UniqueCartel t1_j9q1m9r wrote
Of course it was someone from western RI who complained. “I’m nevah evah comin back to the cape neithah!” I can just picture the 1990 bangs haircut bobbing up and down as she complains about everything that’s outside of her shitty town.
Mary10123 t1_j9n2rxv wrote
- We have a traffic problem especially in places like the cape and it gets exponentially higher in the summer for almost everyone, making everything nearly inaccessible for residents as is, residents in MA are forced to vacation in the cape or other popular summer spots in the winter or not at all because of the burden
- Because residents of the state who pay taxes for those parks and areas deserve a little reprieve (if you think the same of where your taxes go, vote in your own state)
- Because MA has a high cost of living in general, so if we had to pay tourists prices, either most wouldn’t go, or it wouldn’t really make a difference to us
- Because MA is forward thinking and believes that even it’s poorest citizens should be able to engage with its own landmarks before out of staters take it away from them.
- Because fuck em’
AnyRound5042 t1_j9rf3vr wrote
surprised im not seeing more people talk about traffic tbh. i went to acadia in july one year, shit was a parking lot, never again. think i spent more time in the car trying to drive around the big loop than anything else.
bernchenzo t1_j9myc3x wrote
To keep the Frenchies and RI rockets out.
Victor_Korchnoi t1_j9q2gny wrote
I don’t have a problem with this. Charge out of state residents their share of what it costs to maintain the parks. Subsidize that rate (with tax revenue) for Mass residents (who pay state tax). Though I feel like if you work in Mass and pay taxes here, you should get the in state rate.
squarerootofapplepie t1_j9ne2bo wrote
I feel like I noticed this at Salisbury Beach during COVID, so maybe it’s a remnant of COVID?
UniqueCartel t1_j9q0zsk wrote
Where are you from?
Fun_Top5285 t1_j9pbavn wrote
Simple, they need the money to pay for the professional highly paid employees. Many who got their jobs by holding signs for hours. Worth every penny, too.
Figwit_ OP t1_j9pbk2n wrote
People who hold signs go on to hold many things.
StevieMac97 t1_j9n67m3 wrote
Money grab
Cheap_Coffee t1_j9o0iew wrote
Yeah, state park camping fees are a HUGE revenue source.
/s
UniqueCartel t1_j9q32ga wrote
Muwahahaha! Now we can use the money to invest in ADA compliant walkways and paths! MUWAHAHAHAH! /s
BovaDesnuts t1_j9mpi5j wrote
To keep outsiders out. They want the sites to be cheap for residents at prices subsidized by outsiders. Same with university tuition