Thoughts on Question 2 anyone?

Submitted by bostonmacosx t3_xx4f37 in massachusetts

So as I understand it it will force dental insurance companies to spend at least X% on dental stuff and not administration.

What prevents dentists just from increasing there fees exponentially and just making dental care so expensive that no one without good insurance will be able to afford it.

I mean it is $500-1000 for 1 crown... 1 crown... I wonder what it will be after this passes....

i doubt insurance companies will just be like OK we're going to do this. I suspect many of them will just leave the Massachusetts market...companies like this aren't into losing money...

This appears to be a huge payday for dentists and potentially no real savings for consumers.

What would help more is a forced payment schedule for every dentist...let consumers drive prices down by using their feet...

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PakkyT t1_ir9yuva wrote

Where are you getting a crown for $500?

Dentists occupy a strange space in that they are not really considered essential health care so unlike medical are often not covered under health policies and instead depend on people paying out of pocket or buying supplemental dental insurance and still paying for a lot out of pocket. And they operate as for profit businesses so clearly they want to attract customers. So your thought that dentists raising their prices until they lose customers is not really realistic.

But why would they need to raise their prices? The only thing that will change is that now insurance companies will have to cover more than they currently are covering. So say you go in and get a crown and the dentist charges $1200 and let's say your insurance covers 20% so you pay $960 and the insurance covers $240. Dentist gets the whole $1200. Now the law goes into effect and to bring their spending up to comply with the law, so now your policy covers 50%. You pay $600 and the insurance pays $600. Dentist still get $1200. So how does this new lay make the dentist need to raise their prices? And yes that is a real savings for the consumer, an additional $360 they don't have to pay out of pocket.

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bostonmacosx OP t1_ir9z2ey wrote

You’re looking at dentist as altruistic people. They’re in it to make money so if they can charge 1500 and now you’re paying the same as you did for the 1200 because the insurance company is paying more you’re still at the same amount of money I just don’t see your argument as realistic

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diplodonculus t1_ira0j6u wrote

You're not looking at insurers as mostly valueless leeches on top of our medical systems.

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PakkyT t1_iraasl8 wrote

>You’re looking at dentist as altruistic people.

Reread my post where I said "And they operate as for profit businesses so clearly they want to attract customers." I am looking at them to be business people who are going to do what they need to do to keep business coming in. They are not going to price gouge customers in the short term at the risk of losing their business in the long run.

Already they know people have trouble paying for some of the more expensive services (even a simple teeth cleaning and examination appointment is a lot for those without insurance). They are not going to jack up their prices to keep patients paying more than they want. Instead this will be an opportunity for patients to get more of the care they either need or want if those patients can not get those services with a lower out of pocket expenditure and the dentist still makes their money.

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bostonmacosx OP t1_iraazs2 wrote

There is like 0 ability to easily compare dental prices. Thus your argument although valid to what extent it works is debatable.

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zeratul98 t1_irbbhls wrote

What? Every time I've gone to a dentist I've gotten a list of work I'd need done and a cost for each procedure. That's loads better than any medical care I've ever gotten

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bostonmacosx OP t1_irbcjri wrote

I'm talking between dentists....not just in one place...most people go to a dentist because it is local...not because it offers the best pricing.

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zeratul98 t1_irbd92z wrote

I think people are willing to travel an extra five minutes if it genuinely saves them hundreds of dollars

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bostonmacosx OP t1_irbdci1 wrote

So where is this marketplace to compare costs?

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zeratul98 t1_irbft5r wrote

Some explicitly advertise prices, but usually you'll have to go in for an evaluation and ask for a plan

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bostonmacosx OP t1_irbidxl wrote

Yup making My point.

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zeratul98 t1_irbizrj wrote

If I'm making your point, then I have no idea what your point is. Your claim is that people have 0 ability to compare prices. It's definitely harder than shopping for a couch, but world's better than getting prices from a hospital

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clichetobelieve t1_ira33qy wrote

Health insurance already has to operate this way so it seems logical to me. Insurance companies in general are leeches and major obstacles to system wide healthcare reform so any ground we can get is good, imo.

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third0burns t1_ira9o1u wrote

Health insurers tried to scare us with this same message when obamacare was being debate. It didn't raise costs like they said. I don't see why it would for dental insurance.

The reason they wouldn't jack up costs is because then nobody would get dental care. And it doesn't matter how high your prices are, if nobody is buying your product you're not making money.

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killakitten t1_ira7mi2 wrote

Fear, as a tool, is the primary weapon of insurers.

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nattarbox t1_ira43mz wrote

Dental insurance is such a rip off and dentists are obviously very good at exploiting it already. Tough call and I think them gaming it even more is a valid concern.

But dental insurance is so garbage already I feel like we gotta try something.

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Fantastic-Surprise98 t1_irajwfc wrote

Do you want your purchasing of Dental insurance for dental care or for extreme insurance company profits?

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ganduvo t1_iraksz2 wrote

Since no one has really answered your question directly yet: dental insurance plans have agreed upon rates for specific procedures, just like health insurance plans. There are many dental insurance companies competing with each other, so pricing would never get too out of whack.

Example: you need a crown. The dentist is covered under your insurance network. The dentist can theoretically bill whatever they want, from $500 to $30,000, but the actual cost of the procedure is determined by the insurance company. Say the dentist does actually bill $30,000 for a crown, but the insurance company's set rate is $1000, and your coinsurance is 50% for crowns. The remaining $29,000 is disallowed and no one sees that money, the insurance company pays the dentist $500, and you're on the hook for the remaining coinsurance of $500.

Insurance companies might raise rates to compensate for Q2, but dentists aren't likely to start charging more because of Q2. They're cash flow isn't really going to be affected.

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TywinShitsGold t1_iraplfv wrote

Talking to a dentist out of Charlotte a few weeks back, Dental Insurance hasn’t adjusted their reimbursement model after Covid to even come close to their increase in cost.

As with every other industry, supplies are up 50%+, labor is up significantly, and a lack of available hygienists is limiting their patients per day.

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hollycatrawr t1_irkiz5f wrote

I always look at who is sponsoring the campaigns. Opposition is sponsored by Delta Dental and other corporate interests.

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TywinShitsGold t1_ira2jnh wrote

Seeing as every time I turn on the radio I’m bombarded with vote yes ads, imma vote no.

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ganduvo t1_iraq9ob wrote

Please at least do a bit of research.

https://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Question_2,Medical_Loss_Ratios_for_Dental_Insurance_Plans_Initiative(2022)#Support

Actual dentists and dentist organizations overwhelmingly support Q2, and the only opponents are insurance companies.

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