Submitted by VulcanTrekkie45 t3_yf52mz in massachusetts
First it was Martha’s Vineyard, then Methuen, and now Kingston. Who is it that is just callously dumping marginalised people in random towns literally by the hundreds, with little to no notice? And how can we hold them responsible?
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In a couple of years MA will be a food scene to match NYC, mark my words. All of these immigrants are going to start opening tiny kitchens and restaurants and we'll get cuisine from around the world.
This isn't the best reason for a more liberal immigration policy, but.... well, yes it is.
Historically, America’s economy depends on a steady flow of immigrants to take on the jobs of the lower class to propel “American” class up from the lower class. My grandparents were immigrants that were barely allowed to work, and then they were the greatest generation, now I am considered American. Immigrants are a good thing for us, and for them. And in two generations they will be American, as long as we do not run this country into the ground with useless and uninformed hate that distracts us from true progress.
And because of this they shouldn’t be so dehumanised
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In most cases, it's ICE. Most individuals make asylum claims, so they get shuffled around while awaiting the appeal of that claim.
Not so much a 'who' so much as a 'what' with federal bureaucracy.
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As the person who also replied mentioned, most border towns are way way overwhelmed. They're doing their best to help both the people crossing over and those towns who really do a ton to help them.
I don’t think a lot of people who live far away from border states realize the amount of effort localities put into trying to help these people. It's just too tall a task to do it well. ICE is equipped to turn people away, not house them.
So just revoke these people’s autonomy? I mean how would you feel if the government told you you had to just up and move to god knows where at a moment’s notice?
In the sense that they are under court order their autonomy is limited. Those claiming asylum because of the horrific conditions in the old country have a date on which they appear in front of a court to argue their case. They are released but it is understood that they are assetless so housing is arranged. The housing on the border being full up they are legally by the book shuffled off to other locales. We’re all one country you know, immigrants are a Massachusetts problem too. So these people are pretty much free range until their court date for which the vast majority do appear because they don’t want to screw up their one chance at the Golden Ticket. All of this is an insane way to handle the problem but the Republicans have been screwing over any reform since Reagan, all while conditions fester South of us because of all the billions in drug money we send them.
If there’s a court date, shipping them thousands of miles away becomes even more problematic. Are they on the hook for getting back to the border to appear in court? Do you have any idea how expensive travel is these days?
And I don’t know how to explain this to you, but just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. After all, if this is being done by a government entity, it’s definitely legal and definitely wrong.
I’m not much interested in fantasy.
Wait till you find out laws can change. Does your moral compass change with them?
Still not much interested in fantasy.
Definition of lawful neutral. With that attitude, slavery would still be legal.
I’ve had enough of your fantasy, but gracious as ever I’ll leave you the last word.
Imagine being so narrow-minded.
I don't think anyone was forced to move. They can stay where they are, but they'll be homeless instead of homed.
Well, the issue is created by too many people crossing illegally (hence the asylum claims, as it forces the system to accommodate them in the meantime). I'm all for people wanting to move here, we just need to disincentivize people coming in droves and ultimately doing it the right way by applying etc. We just can't handle it, and it's not really fair on anyone involved. Nor is the status quo at all sustainable.
Requesting asylum and immigration are basic human rights, but okay…
Where they are typically can’t handle them. Keep in mind there will be over 3 million boarder crossers into the US this year.
They can’t all stay in the boarder states - they simply don’t have the capacity to add/keep that many people in shelters, fed, etc.
It’s not just Florida and Texas governors moving these people around. Our federal govt is doing it in huge volumes.
"Hey john, we have too many people here. Let's just shove them on a plane and throw a dart at the board to figure out where they go. No no need to plan or notify, what's the worst that cam happen. No i don't care that one is pregnant or sick"
This is what we call NIMBY.
My problem is the lack of choice these people are given. Or do you think that hundreds of people voluntarily decided to get shipped to a random motel with little to no notice? You need to look into the details of the Martha’s Vineyard incident for everything you need to know on that front.
You should really research the conditions in these boarder towns.
They have Mass populations of homeless boarder crossers, living in conditions that would make Mass/Cass look upscale. Terrible violent crime to deal with, etc.
They are getting moved because they need to be. It’s also in their own best interest.
They also do not have to come here at all (as in cross the boarder), which is a choice they themselves made.
Our govt doesn’t just have millions of unoccupied govt housing facilities vacant and ready for this.
You know that same reasoning was given for shipping Jews around Europe during the 1940s and we know how well that worked out…
May I remind you that seeking asylum is a basic human right? As is being treated better than simple cargo…
For one, I am Jewish with a grandfather who was in a work camp for 4 years and lost his whole family other than a sister… so fuck off with your comparison.
And two - I didn’t say for them not to come at all. Just that they themselves had the choice knowing there are no guarantees of housing, food, etc once here.
And three - are you that mad that our government is trying to find better living opportunities for them? Do you really prefer they struggle to find it on their own?
I’d rather they be given the choice. Look at the way the Martha’s Vineyard migrants were duped. Trickery does not equal consent.
Can agree on that.
But what Florida did is different than what ICE is doing with transporting. There is an attempt to find them a landing ground (as in housing, not just an airport runway)
Then why not alert the towns involved that they’re about to receive several hundred refugees? And after the MV incident, I think we really need to look into whether these people gave informed consent. Because I very much doubt many of them did
I couldn’t tell you why they don’t alert the towns. We can both agree that a simple phone call would go a long way.
My guess is that a lot of towns would ask for them not to come here because of a lack of resources. Problem is that, where they are coming from, there are also a lack of resources.
I’m only stating the problems that exist.
I’d also like to point out that being Jewish doesn’t make you immune to advocating genocide. So you should be well aware of how it happens.
You made an ignorant statement. To even compare what is happening now to what happened to them is ridiculous. And shows a lack of understanding as to what it’s like at our boarder for these asylum seekers.
Yeah, Jewish scholars haven’t been making that comparison for years or anything…
Besides this is how it started. Or are you gonna seriously argue that there are no similarities between this and relocating Jews into ghettos?
Moving migrants into housing, offering the kids places in our schools, giving them access to our healthcare to a level they have never had the opportunity to receive. Finding food sources for them. This is not the same.
Unless you are suggesting this is the end goal of the Biden administration. In which case, you should start demanding answers from our elected leaders.
I mean their policy so far has been almost no departure from Trump’s immigration policy, so…
A big difference being trump eventually made asylum seekers stay in Mexico. Biden allows them to stay here (which I’ll note I agree with).
The difference in that policy made the crossings explode, however. We have as many asylum seekers now, in a 5 week span, that we would see annually before.
You can’t safely accommodate the vast increase in numbers in one area (the boarder).
Your energy should be spent directed at our state officials to prepare and welcome migrants here. All states should do it, because that’s what’s going to eventually happen anyway.
That needs to be something done on a federal level though.
Unfortunately it isn’t being done, at least not well, at the federal level.
Not for lack of trying from our reps…
I’m sure (at least hope) our reps are trying.
You are conflating two unrelated procedures. And the people have surrendered themselves to the system voluntarily. They would say that a random motel is an improvement in their condition.
And you know they consented to this how? What source do you have?
The fact that they are in the system because they asserted asylum. If they had not it would be back on the bus Jack , and we wouldn’t be talking about them. Elementary and fundamental.
Being under duress usually negates consent but okay…
I think if America took a vote we'd rather just swap you for one of them. What do you say? Why don't you go back where you came from?
Oh I guess there's no more third Reich.
Why don't you want marginalized in your neighborhood? Is it ok if they put them where it isn't an inconvenience for you. If our government wants to grant asylum to everyone then we should all bare this responsibility.
This is how the republicans get the “poor” vote, when poverty stricken folk start hating on the immigrants for getting accommodations when we have a housing crisis.
That's how the rich pick us against each other. That's really a lot how fascism works when you think about it.
Is that why they’re doing it?
It’s really hard to tell at times.
The governors from Florida and texas planned the MV trip!
The governor of Florida was solely responsible for the Martha’s Vineyard migrant trip. The governor of Texas was blindsided and miffed about it. Gov DeSantis needed some brown skinned people to send, the immigrants in Florida tend to be from Cuba so untouchable for an ambitious trumpy . So he spent some Florida taxpayers money to poach some more appropriate nationalities from Texas. Like scorpions in a bottle those govs are.
Those were exceptions to the rule of feds shipping people without heads up
The federal government controls the border...
Not all of them were migrants. Most of the Methuen group were homeless people from the South Shore
Wasn't aware of the other stories. Sounds like the other cases are related to hotel availability for the homeless but I haven't read those linked stories yet.
They have no control of border that's the problem
I don't know who is doing this, but if there is going to be so many immigrants they can't stay in one place. Each state needs to have a plan and it looks like many like MA do not have a plan. Immigration is a broken system.
"Hey john, we have too many people here. Let's just shove them on a plane and throw a dart at the board to figure out where they go. No no need to plan or notify, what's the worst that cam happen. No i don't care that one is pregnant or sick"
The feds ship them here, except MV
Not sure who's directly responsible but rest assured that the middle class will be footing the bill. Doesn't matter if you vote yay or nay on question 1, taxachusettes will find a way for the true tax payers to pay for their care.
We need stricter immigration laws
They aren't being "dumped" here, this is immigration.
There has been 2 million this year alone. We have a major problem at the border. Either we stop it or every town “takes their fair share”
Oh, you mean its not a good idea to just let EVERY single person into the country? 😂 It's almost like the "nut job, right-wing extremists" were on to something.
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Help those states secure the border.
The problem isn’t immigration. The problem is treating these people like a problem and dumping them into unsuspecting laps. All three instances I listed above the towns involved had little to no warning. How is that fair to anyone involved in this? Except for the entity doing the shoving that now has the luxury of saying “not my problem anymore”
Talk to your local reps and demand that they control the immigration problem.
I'd rather they control the Republican problem. That's a lot more serious and much more dangerous for America in the long run.
What exactly are you referring to?
Putting people in a hotel doesn't sound like just dumping folks off.
I mean in the story about the Kingston group they mentioned that they’re likely going to be there through the end of the year, without access to even a kitchen
Hotel rooms don't typically have kitchens.
Yeah, that’s the problem.
I'd think they have quite a few challenges not just immediate kitchen access.
Do you have a few dozen apartments you can lend them and improve the situation?
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You think finding the culprits isn’t just as important? There are efforts underway to help these people, but those that put them there in the first place need to know it’s not okay to treat people like this
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Meaning?
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Coyotes.
You are asking the wrong question. Why is the government allowing the free flow of illegal immigrants into the country??????
>Why is the government allowing the free flow of illegal immigrants into the country??????
They aren't. The US does not have an open border.
I'm still wondering why we let you in our country.
Found the racist
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You think it’s racist to have open borders?
Because thanks to Trump administration's policies and now the midget, dipshit who "governs" Florida. The government had to find a new way of stealing money to give to their rich friends to play these little pranks. And by default are now human traffickers as well.
Who let you in?
It is fairly clear that the government is not ‘ allowing the free flow of illegal immigrants into the country’!!!!!!
lisa_williams_wgbh t1_iu1ympv wrote
The Martha's Vineyard situation and the situation in Kingston and Methuen are a little different. In the case of migrants flown to Martha's Vineyard, they were transported at the authority of Florida Gov. Ron De Santis.
In the case of Methuen the families being housed are a mix of people from the South Shore and migrants from other countries. They are being placed in hotels by the Massachusetts Department of Housing and Community Development because there isn't room in family shelters.
A reporter in our newsroom did a story about the Kingston situation here: https://www.wgbh.org/news/local-news/2022/10/27/kingston-official-says-town-needed-more-of-a-heads-up-from-state-about-families-being-housed-in-hotel