When did it become okay to email you if you perform a transaction?

Submitted by BF1shY t3_zh0uk4 in massachusetts

So tired of getting a coffee or making a purchase with a credit card while traveling and automatically being signed up for emails and newsletters from a business I will never visit again nor do I want to hear from.

Unless I opt into receiving emails from a business it should be straight up illegal for them to contact me. I thought it was a big no-no to cold-call/email without consent when did that change?

Is this even worth pursuing and trying to make a change in the state of MA?

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Comments

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RevengencerAlf t1_izjkunq wrote

You did probably opt in and just don't realize it. They are most likely using square or stripe and at some point you put in an email for an email receipt at a store. At which point you gave the payment processor permission to link your email to your credit card for all vendors that use them.

It's still shady and I would support a law that requires every store to individually obtain your permission but I suspect it will get pushback because getting email receipts is a common convenience for people.

That said, as a practical matter regardless of whether it's morally right for them to do it or not, I suggest making a junk email specifically for store purchases so all that garbage goes into one place.

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JenRJen t1_izkd4fq wrote

Thank you for this post! I have not yet signed up for ANY emailed receipts but i Have considered it -- reading this info i am gonna continue to NOT get any receipts emailed. TY!!

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sydiko t1_izk1v27 wrote

You should consider a burner email or 3 with a forward on it for signing up to stuff. That way you never give out your real email address.

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Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_izjiuit wrote

How did they get your information. I don't give stores any persona information, unless I need to when buying online

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BF1shY OP t1_izjji8n wrote

I assume from my credit card, I've removed all preferences and data sharing on my CC but it still happens.

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thedjbigc t1_izkbzpv wrote

This actually done on the payment processor level. A lot of times if you use a card and enter an email address for one location if another merchant also uses that payment processor, if you use the same card, they will have the email address tied to it.

Currently this is legal everywhere.

Source: I work in e-commerce, specifically dealing with support on payments, and this is a topic myself and the team has gone over a bit.

I believe it's illegal currently in Europe and California to automatically be opted in to marketing subscriptions - so if you did really want to push for it you could figure out the Cali law and see if we could get something passed like that here. California has pretty decent consumer protection stuff on the books even though I think they go a bit overboard sometimes.

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[deleted] t1_izjiusv wrote

Just pay cash

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BF1shY OP t1_izjk8qz wrote

Ugh, I think I'll start carrying cash again just to avoid this. Good idea!

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abat6294 t1_izjp6g3 wrote

If you regular pay for things in cash, you are:

  1. Risking getting that cash stolen
  2. Risking losing that cash
  3. Wasting everybody's time as transactions take longer
  4. Losing out on cash back and other rewards that credit cards offer
  5. Hindering your credit score
  6. Forfeiting your ability to dispute any transactions
  7. Lessening your ability to track expenses.
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PLS-Surveyor-US t1_izjrl9j wrote

worst financial advice ever....

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abat6294 t1_izjt1hw wrote

Why's that?

It's evident the general public has no idea how to properly use credit cards. Everyone has been brain washed into thinking they're bad.

Yes, credit cards can ruin your life because they're interest rates are so high you can get out of it.

But what if I told you you can have credit cards, make free money by taking advantage of their cash back rewards, and pay $0 in interest in fees? Does that sound crazy?

Well it's not! Just pay the balance in full everyone month and it'll never accrue interest. Don't use your credit cards to buy things you can't afford (basically treat it like and a debit card - if the cash isn't in your account, don't buy it).

So if you have a credit card that offers 2% cashback and you use it to buy everything you would normally buy (groceries, gas, everything) and you pay it off every month - you will essentially be paying 2% less on everything.

Why would you not take advantage of that?

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fireball_jones t1_izjw1gd wrote

I agree with most of this but the "free money" is just a portion of the fees the credit card company is taking from the merchant which you're already paying for in higher costs.

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abat6294 t1_izm2uwq wrote

Right.

And if you pay in cash you pay for those higher prices without getting the cash back.

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PLS-Surveyor-US t1_izk5z6w wrote

Cashback programs are wonderful. Like free money from the sky. Where does it come from? The consumer pays 3% higher cost in product so the merchant can pay the CC fee. CC gives you 2% (keeps 1%) and the world rejoices. ... Its already your money and now you paint it as the reason to use a CC instead of cash. Your own first line says it all.

"It's evident the general public has no idea how to properly use credit cards."

Since most people carry balances they pay 15%+ to borrow short term...months or years. Therefore it is better for people to pay in cash for most expenses. Debit card is a better deal overall for what most people that don't want to carry around a lot of cash. You can build a a credit history through a bunch of other ways without needing a CC.

sorry your argument is flawed.

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Billh491 t1_izkrsd4 wrote

so you pay the 3% credit card fee in that it is built in to the price of the goods and services no matter if you pay cash or credit so I choose to pay with credit and get 2% back thus only having to pay 1% of the fee while cash users pay the whole 3%.

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abat6294 t1_izm39ze wrote

If you use cash, you are paying for the 3% credit card charge anyways.

Best to use a credit card that your being charged extra for and get the cash back.

Your argument is flawed.

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PLS-Surveyor-US t1_izo0jdq wrote

This is part of the reasoning why products have the 3% kick into them. You feel free to feed the monster. My argument is sound. I'll do what I do and recommend the same to others.

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[deleted] t1_izjqpr6 wrote

[deleted]

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abat6294 t1_izjs6hl wrote

  1. If your debit card/credit gets stolen, you can shut it off. Cash gets stolen, you're shit out of luck.
  2. You're paying with cash everywhere, but only have $20 bucks at any given time?
  3. I didn't say my time is more valuable than yours. Our time is equal, which is why it would be awesome if you got up to speed in today's world and stopped slowing everyone down.
  4. You don't understand how credit cards work. I earn $100s in cash back every year and pay absolutely $0 in interest and $0 in fees. If you pay your cards off on time every month, there is no interest and the cash back rewards are quite literally free money.
  5. Using credit cards in the quickest and easiest way to build credit. Your a silly person if your prefer to do things the hard way.
  6. Yeah I kind of stretched on this one. No one disputes in person transactions.
  7. You'll know how much you spent in total, but won't know what you spend it on.

No but seriously, point number 4 is the biggest reason. It's free money. And no the interest doesn't outway it because there is no interest if you pay on time. And it much bigger than $0.02.

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Menacing_Anus42 t1_izjja0u wrote

You obviously are opting in if they are sending you emails, even if you aren't realizing it.

How tf are they getting your email if you aren't giving it to them?

​

edit: interesting, I didn't think that was legal without individualized consent, but that must also mean you could possibly opt-out directly with square

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nattarbox t1_izjjvoi wrote

Square (and probably other POS systems) keeps a profile and attempts to associate all of your cards with them, which is shared across all merchants who use their system. If you opt in for one business (usually by asking for an email receipt), you're in for all of them.

As a customer who hates unsolicited email, it is supremely annoying.

As someone who helps with marketing for a small business, it's absolutely a super valuable tool. Seen very low unsubscribe rates too, so most customers seem to find it valuable as well.

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fetamorphasis t1_izjqd9k wrote

>As a customer who hates unsolicited email, it is supremely annoying.

Unless something has changed with both Square's product and the relevant email marketing laws, you are automatically opted in for transactional emails (receipts) but you are not opted in for marketing emails unless you specifically opt-in at each merchant. If a merchant is emailing you marketing material without the opt-in, they're likely breaking the law.

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nattarbox t1_izjt98e wrote

Square won't show the email if you're not opted in. But it is possible to download the email list, so merchants might be grabbing it and then emailing through other tools, or re-uploading to Square as new customers.

I think they made a change so opting in is across their network, rather than per merchant.

Opting out of one also opted out of all at one point (I never get these), but they might have changed that too, wouldn't surprise me. I've definitely seen an increase in customers who are opted in.

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SheeEttin t1_izkk4ao wrote

The low unsubscribe rate is probably because it just goes to the spam folder.

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nattarbox t1_izkphbg wrote

There is definitely a lot of that. If you mark one Square merchant as spam the rest get marked as well. Had a bunch of people trying to resubscribe through our website that were already on our list, and they were all going to spam when we reached out.

We try to do a good job of sending infrequently and only with important updates, so I think that helps a lot too.

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Billh491 t1_izks9xa wrote

would using Apple pay cut the tie of the profile to cards as I think the "card" apple pay gives is a one time use.

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nattarbox t1_izl5ryo wrote

Nope. It's not one time use, but it does hide your card number, which is useful for security (I think all tap to pay transactions do this).

Square will still be able to associate it with your profile if you opt into email/sms receipt like any physical card.

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BF1shY OP t1_izjjv7w wrote

By paying with a credit card. That's it. I don't give my email, I don't ask for a receipt to be emailed. I just want my purchase T.T

The new Square registers that swivel even ask you if you want to opt into Newsletter emails and i always say no.

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Menacing_Anus42 t1_izjl4m6 wrote

Interesting. There could be a way to opt-out directly with Square?

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RevengencerAlf t1_izjla8v wrote

As I said elsewhere, you did give your email, you just don't realize it. Probably at a different business using the same payment processor.

If you ever said yes to opt in even once at once store, even by mistake, or an unscrupulous or lazy store employee ticked the box for you when they swung it back around, it gave permission for all of them.

That said there is a way to tell square to fuck off and disallow it, but I don't remember what because I did it like 3 years ago.

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fetamorphasis t1_izjqhu2 wrote

>That said there is a way to tell square to fuck off and disallow it, but I don't remember what because I did it like 3 years ago.

It's the unsubscribe link at the bottom of every email.

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DogsDonutsandMoney t1_izjjwgt wrote

Square has my email so I get emails from ANY merchant who uses square if I buy from them once. I always unclick “send me promotions” yet they send them anyway.

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Comfortable_Plant667 t1_izjjn54 wrote

It sounds like their point of sales system collects your email somehow when you use your credit card. Likely the option to opt out is either not presented on the screen, OR it is there but difficult to see. It may be possible to go through your card company or bank, and see if there's a way to automatically restrict the release of your email when you make a transaction.

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RevengencerAlf t1_izjl249 wrote

They did not get it through the CC company or bank. 100% confident OP entered their email for something once and didn't realize they were linking the two because the payment processors (stripe and square are both guilty of this but stripe seems worse) was coy/misleadingon the POS screen that they were doing it.

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gardenflamingo t1_izjk2dc wrote

This is the worst. Would love to see something similar to the do not call registry for promotional emails.

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fetamorphasis t1_izjq6xo wrote

That already exists. It is illegal to email people promotional materials without their consent.

Edit: per the reply, it’s not actually illegal to email people without their specific opt-in. TIL

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h2g2Ben t1_izjuo7g wrote

That's not really what the CAN-SPAM act says. See here

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fetamorphasis t1_izkfd6h wrote

I’m having one of those Mandala effect moments. I know I’ve seen FTC pages explaining how opt-in was required and yet…you’re right. I also found an FTC page saying specifically that opt-in isn’t required but honoring opt-out is required.

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Control_Is_Dead t1_izkyi2v wrote

Yeah, but note CASL in Canada and GDPR in the EU do require opt-in (and in Europe that can't be a pre-checked consent box). This leads providers to try and implement something that meets requirements across all the jurisdictions they support.

Now I would argue unchecking a "send me promotional email" box is the same as opting-out and is in violation of CAN-SPAM, but I'm not a lawyer, so I just enjoy reporting as spam knowing that I'm tanking their deliverability :)

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h2g2Ben t1_izkheix wrote

Well.

This was pleasant.

Have a good day.

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Simon_Jester88 t1_izjnzy0 wrote

I get a little upset when it's emails from a coffee store I went to once in Salem.

But then I also get updates on pretty decent deals from a dispensary I go to...

I'm guessing the whole "ok" was from one of those 100 page small print agreements you had to click while getting your credit card.

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Visible-Education-98 t1_izk5n7y wrote

I had a cashier at DSW Downtown Boston get absolutely furious with me when I declined to give her my email address on a transaction I was paying for in cash. Went like this

Cashier: Ok, so you total is...

ME: Cash in hand

C: Can I get your email address?

M: I'm not part of the rewards program and I don't want to be

C: OK, can I get a phone number for you?

M: Why? Im paying in cash, I'm not looking for a discount, why do you need anything other than my payment from me.

C: Slams closed fist on counter, pushes the shoe box, takes a deep breath and says I am not doing this today. I said, I realize you probably get some type of incentive to do this but I'm sorry, my policy is this, if I'm paying for a service or a product, unless I volunteer my personal information you are NOT entitled to it. These stores need to stop putting their front-line workers on these data gathering quests, its so annoying.

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Unique-Public-8594 t1_izk73uc wrote

It’s the management pressuring cashiers to gather the info. Don’t blame the cashier. It’s incentivized. They are evaluated for their annual raise based on this.

And dealing with public facing jobs is brutal.

Short staffed.

Dead end job.

And everyone has bad days too.

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Visible-Education-98 t1_izkcxnf wrote

I know, thats why I said to the cashier "I realize you probably get some type of incentive to do this".

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fxcassell t1_izk756j wrote

Lol, my favorite is when they don't even ask if they can have that info, they just straight up say, "Phone number?" I'm buying a pair of shoes. My phone number is not necessary for this transaction. And if it is, please let me know so I never shop here again.

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warriorofinternets t1_izk69e0 wrote

Just mark them all as spam instantly and when enough do this their emails automatically get caught in spam filters

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Positive_Parsnip420 t1_izkhsam wrote

“Idiocracy” is coming at us so fast and furious we don’t even know it.

Brawndo. It’s what plants love.

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YoMomma-IsNice t1_izjttu8 wrote

Spoiler alert: Wait until CBDC is rolled out in the US and see what happens to your privacy.

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YourPlot t1_izk0ai3 wrote

I had this happen when I used my credit card at a local pub lately. The next day I started getting promotional emails. I found out from the pub that they scraped my email from the credit card receipt.

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Sufficient-Opposite3 t1_izkgin2 wrote

It's incredibly annoying. I am constantly unsubscribing from unwanted emails. The thing is, I don't want my credit card to have a fake email address. That's the only way to avoid this if they are scaping info from your card.

Also, I'm in Square. Nice to know that is leading to a lot of these emails as well.

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plantycatlady t1_iznzr4x wrote

curious why you care so much? just report it as spam or unsubscribe. it takes less time to do that then it does to make this post, lol.

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BF1shY OP t1_izrkks8 wrote

It takes 5-10 seconds per email/business.

I've done it for years now. It never used to be the norm, but it is now. Just annoying and sad that it's expected I guess.

It used to be very specific, open up an account at Macy's to make a purchase? Get promotional emails.

Now I see instances where even if I Google a business or walk into their store, I'm likely to get emails from them.

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HumanChicken t1_izk5doq wrote

Sign a petition on Change.org, immediately start receiving unwanted emails…

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Beantownbrews t1_izlafj8 wrote

More environmentally friendly than paper.

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