Submitted by CactusBoyScout t3_11eh6dj in movies
Comments
-pen-is-mightier- t1_jae4l78 wrote
A straight white cis man.
stumpcity t1_jaewk5c wrote
>I cannot imagine how bad Twitter would be
Yes you can.
You don't even have to have an imagination, honestly.
The question is why everyone defaults to wondering what a known tire fire will smell like when someone threatens to pour gasoline on it.
OneManFreakShow t1_jadz3tw wrote
Such a dumb fucking idea. Think of all of the discourse around the Best Director category ever year and multiply that by a thousand. This should never, ever, ever be done.
As for non-binary actors, why not just nominate them in the category that’s best fitting for the character they’re portraying? There hasn’t even been a non-binary actor that I can think of that would ever even be up for an Oscar anyway, I don’t see why we should change nearly a hundred years of an awards category just for rare fringe circumstances.
Veszerin t1_jae382i wrote
>As for non-binary actors, why not just nominate them in the category that’s best fitting for the character they’re portraying? There hasn’t even been a non-binary actor that I can think of that would ever even be up for an Oscar anyway, I don’t see why we should change nearly a hundred years of an awards category just for rare fringe circumstances.
That's essentially what they do. For a lot of awards non-binary actors can choose which category they want to be considered for.
E.g. Emma D'arcy from HotD was submitted for best actress awards in the Emmys, Golden Globes, etc.
urgasmic t1_jae3u6u wrote
yeah i think what's likely to happen is that nonbinary people and women would then just be pushed out all together anyway.
Emma Corrin and Emma D'arcy would be two nonbinary actors that could definitely be nominated in the future.
SpideyFan914 t1_jae8hcv wrote
And many more will likely spring up. In fact, it's extremely likely that a non-binary actor has already been nominated but wasn't open about it, and we will never know.
ParlorSoldier t1_jae2r4v wrote
Do actors submit themselves as being eligible for nomination? Or do academy members just vote for whoever they want? Because I was going to say, just let the actor choose which category they want to be included in.
shy247er t1_jae4bel wrote
> Do actors submit themselves as being eligible for nomination?
Studios do with consultation with actors, I imagine.
For example, Fox Searchlight submitted The Favourite's Emma Stone and Rachel Weisz for supporting and pushed Olivia Colman as lead so she would have a bigger shot at winning. Even though, arguably, Stone is the lead in the movie.
mikeyfreshh t1_jadzt6t wrote
As long as people have internet connections, discourse is going to be terrible. I don't really think that's a good reason not to do this. The real reason not to do it is that you'd be removing two awards from the show. People watch the Oscars to see famous people win awards. They're struggling for ratings as it is. I don't think removing two famous people giving speeches is going to help that
stumpcity t1_jaex01j wrote
> The real reason not to do it is that you'd be removing two awards from the show. People watch the Oscars to see famous people win awards.
So don't remove two awards. Increase the number of people who get to win.
Basically, turn the acting awards into a top 5 instead of a top 1. Nominate 10 people for lead, and 10 people for supporting, and then reward the top 5 in both categories. Now you have 10 pretty and famous people all standing up and winning statues and smiling like the Prom Court they are.
Gender categories - removed
number of famous people being rewarded - increased.
mikeyfreshh t1_jaf0sdr wrote
5 speeches is a lot and and giving 5 acting awards for lead and supporting waters down the value of the award. I'd be into adding more acting categories, maybe separating drama and comedy like the golden globes do, but just awarding the top 5 seems dumb.
stumpcity t1_jaf1roh wrote
>5 speeches is a lot and and giving 5 acting awards for lead and supporting waters down the value of the award.
I disagree that it "waters down the value of the award" for a couple different reasons.
- The Oscars are self-marginalizing and self-devaluing in general. Hence our agreement that the reasoning people even show up has nothing to do with merit and everything to do with superficiality. We want to see pretty famous people get happy for being pretty and famous. That's the drive.
- Picking single winners has also, by this logic, "devalued" the award because if you fuck up and pick someone that shouldn't have won it, you end up making the award mean less. The evidence for this POV is seen by, once again, our shared recognition that people don't tune into this thing to see movies win things based on merit.
As it stands, the acting awards are the ONLY awards anywhere near as delineated as they are already. Not only are they split into Supporting/Lead categories, they're the ONLY awards split by gender role as well. If giving more people statues for being among the five best performances of that year is dilution of the award, then the decision to make "Best Acting" into four separate trophies was already dilution.
The awards are, themselves, an advertisement (and historically, an anti-labor union measure, LOL). Their status as a legitimate designator of merit has been in question longer than we've been alive. This is not an institution known for great judgment, and it's accepted for that.
The biggest hurdle isn't a supposed devaluing of awards whose key reason for existing is superficial advertising. It's just getting over the artificial "tradition" being changed going forward.
saideeps t1_jaeheen wrote
>There hasn’t even been a non-binary actor that I can think of that would ever even be up for an Oscar anyway,
There was - and the main twist of the movie was spoiled by the oscar category they were nominated in. Check out The Crying Game.
OneManFreakShow t1_jaez7pv wrote
Jaye Davidson is not non-binary, or at least has never publicly identified as such.
theyusedthelamppost t1_jaeby72 wrote
>As for non-binary actors, why not just nominate them in the category that’s best fitting for the character they’re portraying?
that just delays the problems for the next generations to deal with when more roles feature characters who don't clearly fit in the box of 1 gender.
>I don’t see why we should change nearly a hundred years of an awards category just for rare fringe circumstances.
Because the cases will become less rare over time. Might be better to reform the system beforehand until waiting for the problem to spill over. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Intelligent-Age2786 t1_jae0p6w wrote
Pretty sure there was an award show that did this and all the winners ended up being men. It’s a bad idea. Keep it the way it is
SpideyFan914 t1_jae6q0q wrote
Spirit Awards switched this year, and most of the nominees are women. It's likely that Blanchett or Yeoh will win Lead, and probably Quan will win Supporting, so 50/50 winners if that's the case.
fitlikeabody t1_jae05fd wrote
Seems like a cheap way to save on trophies
ManInBlack829 t1_jae4jfl wrote
This is completely unfair because Meryl Streep would never stop winning.
Resident-Effect-8597 t1_jaebl4j wrote
That’s what I always suggest when I hear women saying they want to be called “actors” instead of “actresses”…but god forbid men to win for a couple of years in a row, right? That would be sexist…come on! These exaggerations just end up drawing attention away from what really counts. That goes for gender, race, sexual preference, etc. All fanatics are idiots. Including far-right…and far-“woke”.
SaltySteveD87 t1_jae2djj wrote
If men and women were in the same category every year women would never win.
FloppedYaYa t1_jae4p73 wrote
Hope you're not implying that the reason for this is men being better actors
IamRick_Deckard t1_jae5hd0 wrote
It's been talked to death about how men get better and more interesting parts.
FloppedYaYa t1_jae5y03 wrote
That's not true at all in 2023
Syn7axError t1_jaeajfh wrote
Even if all sexism disappeared tomorrow, men would have a three thousand year back catalogue of real soldiers, emperors, scientists, etc. to work with, and those are the kinds of roles awards love.
FloppedYaYa t1_jaedfql wrote
It's really a bit staggering how comfortable people on this site are with being misogynistic
CactusBoyScout OP t1_jaec29e wrote
Someone in the NYTimes comments cited a database that tracks this and only 17% of leading roles in movies go to women.
mrand01 t1_jaerbex wrote
The comment you're referencing: "Per the Geena Davis Institute on Gender in Media: 17% of top grossing films had a female lead"
You left out the "top grossing" part, which would certainly skew your claim.
CactusBoyScout OP t1_jaerp6n wrote
True. They have to use some kind of criteria though otherwise every indie movie and self-made film would have to be counted. And the “top grossing” ones are what matters most for someone’s career and for awards show recognition.
okayfrog t1_jae5jxh wrote
really weird thing to say in a year like this where there is a ton of buzz for Best Actress with nominees like Cate Blanchett and Michelle Yeoh, and like no buzz for Best Actor.
SaltySteveD87 t1_jae5nna wrote
Brendan Fraser.
okayfrog t1_jae5wwq wrote
he's gonna lose to Austin Butler
FloppedYaYa t1_jae4h2h wrote
We already saw how this goes this year, the industry just nominates all men
MyFamilyJewels t1_jaefpc3 wrote
Sure, why not? It's either what people want, or malicious compliance.
Fair_Cheesecake_1203 t1_jaent92 wrote
Do it. I want to see the trainwreck
HOBTT27 t1_jaf1g4x wrote
Haven’t the Grammy’s always operated in a genderless fashion? It would be fine.
The true problem, from a ratings/audience perspective, is that you’d be losing out on opportunities to give the famous people awards, which is largely what people are tuning in to see. Most of the awards given out on Oscar night go to people you’ve never heard of, so to lose the chance to highlight more A-listers is pretty risky, from a ratings perspective.
But in terms of the practicality of it? Of course they should do it. As Chris Rock noted in his opening monologue, during the 2016 Oscars: “it’s not track & field. There’s no reason to separate the performances based on gender.”
LAxCalibur t1_jaekbx9 wrote
These Award Shows talk about diversity and the image tells you all. These ideas don’t pan out
SpideyFan914 t1_jaecexr wrote
Nuanced question requires nuanced answer. (And the article does a pretty good job and breaking down the pros/cons.)
For me, I think it should be a long term goal to eliminate gendered categories. However, doing so recklessly would carry a lot of risks and has to be careful.
First off, there are non-binary actors. I see some other users dismissing this, and while it shouldn't be a conversation-ender it's absolutely ridiculous to just dismiss this aspect of the debate.
Has a non-binary actor ever been in contention for an Oscar before? I mean, probably, the idea of being openly non-binary is relatively new in contemporary society, so any actors who have been non-binary in the past would probably be closeted or not even be familiar with the term and just feel forced into a gender identity that didn't fit. So okay, let's get at the real question --
Has an openly non-binary actor ever been in contention for an Oscar? So far, no, but for the reasons stated above it's completely silly to pretend this isn't a possibility in the future. More and more people are openly identifying as non-binary. Denying them a proper slot at awards shows is essentially barring them from that discourse.
Can a non-binary actor simply select whichever category "best fits" them (as another user suggested)? There are so many completely obvious problems with this. For one, it would further the general belief that non-binary identities aren't "real." For another, I could see it hurting an actor's chances if voters are uncertain which category to nominate someone in. (Stanfield's supporting nod shows it isn't as simple as "choosing" a category for yourself.) In the article, a specific example is used of a Tony performer withdrawing their name from consideration as they didn't want to compromise their identity. That's not a choice we should be forcing on people -- "you want an award? Great, first you need to accept a certain dose of body dysmorphia just to be considered."
Of course, there are obvious pitfalls: the two biggest being the fear that this would limit opportunity for female nominees (because there are usually far more male roles, although the current awards season is a promising exception); and that there would be fewer acting awards altogether which is certainly a sacrifice (one which I would see as a bad thing although this isn't a given).
The latter point is easy to address: make more categories that aren't to do with gender. You can go the way of the Globes and split drama/comedy (ugh), or maybe split split performances based on a real person or previous work vs entirely original performances (interesting), or create more tiers in role-importance (e.g. best lead, best co-lead, best supporting, best brief supporting). Several awards shows also have a breakout performance category.
Can argue endlessly about which of these make sense or provide the best opportunities (I'd prefer not to split on genre lines if the Globes are any indication of how that goes down), but the point is that there are alternatives that create four non-gendered acting categories. We also desperately need a voice-acting category by the way, just saying...
Buuuut the former point, about opportunities for women, is... a real concern. And there's not an easy answer for that, since it's largely an industry problem more than an awards show problem (despite internet discourse always focusing on the awards shows' issues).
So... I'm conflicted. I'd hate to say there should be a rule that at least two genders need to be represented in each category, but that might be the easiest way. Honestly, I don't actually think we'd frequently find ourselves with 5 nominees of all the same gender (although in the 2020 show it may have happened) but the threat of 4 male nominees multiple years in a row, or all-male winners or some such, is definitely a threat and we shouldn't pretend it isn't. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine ever having 5 female nominees or all-female winners. This industry is very male-leaning...
Anyway, that was long, but since all the other comments are just "how stupid," I felt like pointing out that it's not stupid or a simple question. But Reddit likes dismissing things that aren't easy to answer, so y'know, that's to be expected.
okayfrog t1_jae1imv wrote
It's one of those band-aids that will -- and should -- be pulled off eventually. I say for something like the Academy Awards, they have Best Actor/Best Supporting Actor have no less than 5, upwards of 10 nominees just like Best Picture.
[deleted] t1_jae13rm wrote
[removed]
HPmoni t1_jae3hv5 wrote
Several females have won best director in the Oscars 90 year history.
If women don't get 51% of the trophies, they will complain.
Award shows aren't about equality. That's the point!
FloppedYaYa t1_jae4qq0 wrote
"Several" hahahaha
eyeseenitall t1_jadzuz7 wrote
I cannot imagine how bad Twitter would be if a man won two years in a row