she makes it clear she doesnt believe in love or a long term relationship

tom refuses to believe her because he's a sap

she eventually believes in those things because she found a certain guy - it happens

Agree! OP, or anyone else, might find this video from The Take useful in explaining why Summer isn't the "bad guy". Tom was never really in love with Summer, he loved the idea of her and how she made him feel, and Summer made it clear from the beginning what she did and didn't want. The video explains it way more eloquently than I ever will.

Summer is very clear about everything. Even Gordon-Levitt says Tom is the villain (although that might be a harsh word) of the movie. Tom really isn’t able to move beyond the vision on his head of who Summer is…and it looks like he didn’t really learn anything at the end of the film.

> As a woman

So irrelevant as to be suspect.

>it just seems like she's leading him on

She isn’t.

Tom (?) ignores Summer’s boundaries. He isn’t a scoundrel, but he isn’t a great guy.

Food for thought:

https://screenrant.com/500-days-summer-tom-villain-theory-explained/

Okay, I didn't clarify. Doesn't it just seem strange that she's always willing to go near him? I know Tom is an emotional guy.

It's just Summer, she's so touchy and feely you know? Like if she sees Tom she'll smile a big smile, they haven't seen each other in a while, she'll mention let's go out for coffee, she asks him to go to a party at her place.She's so willing to be the initiator whenever she sees him. She should know that with a guy like that he takes things personally. You'd think she'd just back off and not see him at least for a while so he could get his mind together. Like who invites an ex to a party who you know is emotional, probably to just break the news to them that you're engaged? The kinda person Tom is who is so "romantic like" wouldn't like something like that.

And even at the end of the movie... she's trying to hold his hand, look into his eyes. She's so open. I feel sorry for Tom. Because during the whole movie he was led to believe that love wasn't this and that. And then near the end of the movie Summer says "oh yeah actually I fell in love, you were right"

What?

Please tell me I have a point about this😭😭

summer from the start told him she didn't want a relationship and was happy just hanging out being friends.

the guy had all these unfair expectations of summer. which is why we get that expectation v reality segment later

She should have broken it off with him when they had the argument in the stairwell.

He’s clearly more into her than she is into him. When he says “I saw we’re a couple, dammit!” And she agrees? It’s at that point she made a decision.

She didn’t want anything serious? Cool. This is the jump to “serious”. She is leading him on after this. If her heart isn’t in it, the decent thing is to break it off.

But you’re putting a lot of responsibility for how Tom would feel on her. She’s not responsible for his feelings; he is. And the thing is, she discovers she is capable of falling in love; it’s just not with him. And, while you certainly can feel bad for him, it’s nothing to hold her responsible for. Tom needs to do some self-examination and hold himself responsible, and it seems he is unable to.

I disagree that she’s not responsible for his feelings. The way you act towards someone else results in that person liking you, disliking you or feeling indifferent towards you. So her being intimate with him, saying things "I never told that to anybody" and spending a lot of quality time with him is leading him on as well as showing him that she is also interested in him despite her saying she’s not. She’s sending hardcore mixed signals which is kinda shitty.

You either want a relationship or you don’t, but then you have to act accordingly to your statement. If you don’t want a relationship then don’t act like you’re somebody’s partner, which she definitely did a lot of times.

In the end both characters are shitty people with wrong expectations in each other and that’s why they don’t end up together, but just framing Tom as the bad guy and her as innocent is disingenuous. He sucks for not listening to her, she sucks for using him despite it being obvious that he’s totally into her.

r/asablackman

I’ll say this as respectfully as I can; that is creepy “nice guy” privilege.

It’s gross.

I also never painted her as innocent. Examine why you had to lie.

Loved that scene

She’s not oblivious. She made her expectations extremely clear to Tom- to her their relationship was casual. His mistake was thinking she either wasn’t serious or would change her mind. He did not tell her he felt that way, so from her perspective she thought he was fine with their relationship as it was. That is not her fault and she did end their relationship when he made it clear he had different expectations.

She was characterized as being outgoing and friendly. Those traits don’t equal “leading someone on”. She was intended to be a deconstruction of the “manic pixie dream girl” trope.

The movie is about Tom growing up.

He built up a whole romantic fantasy that wasn't real. Summer genuinely likes Tom, that's why she's nice to him, even at the end. But she makes it crystal clear that she did not want a serious relationship with him. He chooses to ignore that. He thinks they are 1 record away from being a perfect match.

Summer is the best thing that ever happened to Tom. He learned that he needs to feel satisfaction and pride in himself instead of trying to find it in a woman. Then he's emotionally mature enough when he does meet a perfect match.

Just putting this out there. Most sympathetic characters would maybe think to themselves ‘I know this guy really likes me so I should be gentle with his feelings and not lead him on’ or perhaps ‘ok, he’s not taking this well, so for both our sakes I should draw a line through this relationship. That’s better for both of us’… there’s not being responsible for how a guy feels, and there’s provoking the situation further.

Wtf

She makes it clear from the start that she's not interested in a serious relationship and he thinks he can change that or he doesn't believe. He's the one at fault, I never understood why so many think that she's the villain here.