Submitted by Videowulff t3_z35c3b in movies
Videowulff OP t1_ixk0zwz wrote
Reply to comment by Lemonpicker77 in I dont think some people understood the difference between Riddler and Edward in THE BATMAN by Videowulff
It's now seen as bad? Are we doing that whole "people love it. Opps too popular. Now we must hate it." And when the next one comes out "You know, the last one was better?"
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk1fw2 wrote
My take, which is not formed by how popular the film was or is; I hate the popped collar design of the suit, didn’t like the muscle car (although the car chase was fun), didn’t like petulant angst Batman, didn’t like emo Bruce Wayne, didn’t like the fact the worlds greatest detective hardly solved a single problem without help, didn’t like the fact it felt 50% too long, and very cluttered / rushed in the final act. Penguin was miscast, as was Batman- he was not a threatening presence. People might say ‘oh this is young Batman’ but bullshit, he’s 36! That’s not young.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk1lym wrote
I may disagree with you on most of these fronts. I do, however, appreciate you actually providing a list instead of the generic "hurr it sucked". So thank you for the dialogue.
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk2260 wrote
It’s cool. There were things I liked; Riddler was a nice take, Catwoman was OK. Like I said, cool chase. Like what you like though. Personally my favourite is still Burton’s first. I don’t think there’s actually many heroes who work in what’s intended to be a realistic setting, because it invites critical thought. Even as much as I appreciate Nolan’s films, they’re still flawed in some ways.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk2qa0 wrote
That Chase was so much fun. Great camera work and I loved the very little use of cgi throughout.
The more I think about Nolan's Batman movies- there are a lot of great moments and they are beautifully shot and acted. But some spots just felt a bit off. Maybe a bad edit or bad dialogue choice. (Or Bale's bat voice).
For me, I am a bigger fan of the whole 'realistic' batman because I love seeing the Rogues protrayed as actual psychopaths who can exist. Make them feel like they belong in Se7en or Silence of the lambs.
That said, the Burton ones really capture the COMIC BOOK feel of Batman. Big set designs. Very gothic. Over the top moments and great musical scores. And I love them for that. I actually really like how Devito did Penguin and over time, I have really grown to appreciate how insanely wacky Jack was as Joker.
For me, it all depends on the type of Batman world they want. Comic Book versions fit wonderfully with the animated and the 90s movies.
Realistic ones work well with Nolan and Reeves.
I like seeing how every director protrays the universe in their vision. For better or worse.
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk3yxc wrote
I would personally love to see a version done in the style of Sin City. Larger than life characters, scenery chewing, acted on a sound stage with almost entirely CGI backgrounds. A stylised and gothic city fully realised (the city should really be a character in its own right), and even if not black and white, lean hard into the high contrast- paint the frame with shadows. And give Batman a CGI cape so you can really bring the comic look to life.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk49qn wrote
Dude, I am actually 100% on this. Hell, even in the same vien of an anthology woth loose links together! A batman story, riddler one, joker, gordon, the regular cops.
That is a bitchin idea and now i am sad we never got that during the Uber Comic Book stylized phase we had for a there.
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk4w6j wrote
I would totally watch an anthology, just skip the genesis story entirely. I’d actually like low stakes stories, maybe just 3 nights in the life of Batman? A bus full of children have been abducted for ransom, but is there more to the Joker’s prank? The cops are after Catwoman, but was she framed on this occasion, was it actually a different villain behind the heist? And finally, a violent gang war between Dent and Penguin spills onto the streets.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk56pt wrote
Perfext. Just small stories with maybe the conclusion of Bruce exhausted...just sitting in front of the fireplace...and quietly talking tk Alfred...not about his job. Not about crime...
Just an actual 1 on 1 talk...
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk5vtg wrote
Perfect ending. And they both know it’ll be the same night after night. Perhaps the middle story could focus a fair amount on Bruce Wayne out of costume, so we get to see both sides of the character. Oh, we should definitely get narration from Batman, filling in the time jumps and explaining his pursuit of clues.
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk3awb wrote
I used to be that way, I loved the idea of ‘real’ superheroes, but the more I watched the Nolan films the more I realised that’s a double edged sword. Seeing how you interpret a fantastical character is intriguing, like the Riddler (clearly the best way to do it), but you’re still left with a man who dresses as a bat to apparently scare grown men. Also, particularly in Nolan’s film, you have a guy that routinely tosses people down stairways and through crates, and flips cars, and fires rockets, but apparently never kills anyone. You can kill yourself tripping over a curb, but after all this violence he’s never accidentally killed anyone? How does he feel about life limiting brain damage? Burton and Affleck had the sense to avoid that conundrum. And even ignoring that, his philosophy in the Nolan films is inconsistent; he leaves Ras to die in BB but saves Joker in DK, apparently just to prove a point. And Dents decent into madness feels very rushed, that needed a much bigger arc.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk42bo wrote
That is omthe inherit problem with batman overall. When you really sit there and look at it, he is just a big guy in a silly bat costume. Nolan tried mixing the Armor with the Comic Look and for the most part, to me at least, it looks fine.
Batfleck's works better because we rarely see him surrounded by Normal people. He is usually in the shadows or fighting along others with just as silly costumes
I like Battinson's armor because it looks like it was cobbled together. Boots with belt buckles, chest armor, flight suit.. all random things he pieced together. I also like that its the first time we see him w actual makeup on around the eyes XD. I feel it is just Bat Enough to fit the character (without the mask its just body armor) but normal enough to not make you roll your eyes.
That said - 90s batmen movies were straight out of the cartoons and comics. Everything worked because everything qas ridculous and I love that. Like you said, it all fit well
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk4ic2 wrote
That’s a fair point about the cobbled armour. But sometimes, when you’re desperate to change too much, you’re pretty far from the source material, sometimes too far? I feel like the ‘look’ was pretty cool, but it just didn’t feel like Batman. But I say that as a 40 year old whose probably jaded from seeing it all done so often.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk4pew wrote
As much as I love these movies; I feel like we are getting dangerously cloae to Batman Fatigue. It is why I am really enjoying Suicide Squad and Peacemaker - those shows seem to embrace the absurdity of the worlds they are in. Have you tried Peacemaker yet?
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk53ha wrote
It’s on my to-do :) I also really liked the last Suicide Squad! There’s room for fresh ideas, it’s just so many of them, especially in the MCU, are a formula. It’s not a terrible formula, but after 15 years it’s getting stale.
Lemonpicker77 t1_ixk4wxb wrote
I think you are confusing using violence and doing everything to not kill someone, to all forms of violence can cause death.
He has had many opportunities to kill his main villains and chooses not too. But he won't kill himself in an attempt to save someone, he will risk his life to save people but you can see that in batman begins he allowed Ra's al Ghul to die, the same with his daughter in part 3.
It is a thin line he doesn't break consciously because otherwise he would feel like a criminal himself.
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixk5k08 wrote
Sorry I don’t fully agree. Joker was pushed off the building in a legitimate effort to save himself and diffuse the bomb. He didn’t have to save the Joker, no more than he could have saved Ras from the crashing train. He saved the Joker just to prove to him he wouldn’t take a life and that the city stood up to him. Like it says in the DK; he has one rule- Batman doesn’t kill. Ever. I guess the logic is he doesn’t have to save you either, but he does save the Joker regardless… Flipping someone’s car over is still a deliberate action that can claim a life. As is just punching someone in the head. While that’s easily ignored in a fantasy world, it’s harder to accept if you’re striving for realism.
Lemonpicker77 t1_ixk6hts wrote
Exactly what I said he chooses not to kill, he doesn't punch with the intention to kill, he doesn't flip a car with the intention to kill.
Do you keep up to date on all the comics?
Ashamed_Ladder6161 t1_ixlereg wrote
I’m not talking about the comics though, the films are very much their own thing. My point is, if you do what Batman does, you have to accept your actions will end lives. And the way he drives in the films, probably civilian lives. But you never see him wrestle with this in any credible way. The rational between letting Ras die and saving Joker is not consistent. And film Batman, honestly, Within Nolan’s world, would never kill anyone, and because it’s not realistic, he never has. In that world, it’s framed as his skill and his decision not to take lives, rather than blind luck.
Lemonpicker77 t1_ixk1yzz wrote
No I didn't like it as soon as I watched it, terrible terrible movie, now we are not allowed to have our opinions at all?
Videowulff OP t1_ixk23bx wrote
No. You can have your opinion. But telling others to 'accept it" means you want them to stop enjoying it because it was bad in your opinion.
Lemonpicker77 t1_ixk2d0k wrote
No you went on a thing telling people they didn't understand the movie, when clearly people didn't like it at all because it was such a bad movie. Give me a minute and I will go find comments from months ago about how terrible I found the movie.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk2x4p wrote
No no no. Not the movie itself. Just Paul Dano's scene in the interrogation. And I am not saying they are wrong at all. If they dont like it. Its fine. I am just offering a perspective on why he was shown as 2 different personas - one unhinged and one more Zodiac/riddler
If it sounded like I was telling people they are 100% wrong if they didnt like it, than I apologize.
Lemonpicker77 t1_ixk3ozr wrote
Ok buddy, it was the way it came across.
It is a bad movie. IMO and nearly everyone I have talked to about said the same.
Just so you know my opinion didn't come from no where.
Videowulff OP t1_ixk43s5 wrote
It is all good.
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