Possibly Coppola wanted the audience to be in a moral dilemma of whether Michael should forgive his brother or have his brother punished. The suspense was imo not who betrayed Michael but what would Michael do when he finds out

The Appolonia plot is mostly unnecessary and diminishes Michael's relationship with Kay. It feels like a soap opera arc.

I genuinely think 2 is perfect.

>So where are the flaws?

Dianne Keaton's performance isn't on par with the other main characters.

I thought that was kind of the point. Appolonia was Michael being pulled between his heritage and the independent identity he was originally trying to form. Diminishing his relationship with Kay was really about diminishing that break from his family's path. Returning to her was a way of lying to himself.

I don't really think it diminishes his relationship with Kay. It's not supposed to be a perfect relationship and he's not supposed to be the perfect significant other, by a long shot

It does drag the pacing of the movie though and yeah, ultimately unnecessary

I always roll my eyes at the “IT WAS AN ABORTION, MICHAEL!” scene in Part II - it feels more like something from Days of Our Lives or General Hospital than anything else.

The scene in 2 where Kay reveals she had an abortion and then says their marriage was an abortion. It's written, directed, acted, staged, and lit like a soap opera. Total cringe.

That's a great interpretation, i hadn't thought about that. Still, him breaking away from his independent identity is evident from whole rest of the movie, there was no need for another love interest to highlight it imo.

Generally i think the first movie goes into a few tangent plots that sometimes work, like the hollywood producer subplot, but sometimes they don't. The second film is more focused.

When Sonny is beating up Carlo it is pretty obvious that Caan isn't actually connecting with some of his punches. However, it is still so satisfying to see Carlo get the shit knocked out of him.

I find The Godfather part 2 becomes extremely violent right from the start, before we even connect with the characters. In that respect I find it weaker than the first film.

I only recently watched The Godfather 1 & 2 for the first time and oh man, during the first one I had to have the cast list open in another tab cos I kept mixing up all the guys who weren't like, the main family members. They'd refer to a guy by name and then later you'd see some guy doing stuff and I'm like "Is that the guy he was talking about? Or a different guy?"

That scene is so bad I don’t know how they didn’t reshoot it

Michael and Kay have a toddler before Connie’s kid is baptized even though Connie was pregnant before Michael and Kay were married.

Why does Michael ever even like Kay? There is seemingly no reason, no emotional connection. But he comes back into her life and asks her to marry him? I don’t understand his motivation.

Damn, I thought that was one of the better scenes in the second movie. Al Pacino killed it in that scene

Honesty didn’t seem that far fetch, especially in a lot of old movies, I just assumed that’s the way they talked

I know. I think that every time. The scene is just amateurish. How did they overlook it?

I kind of agree. Over time, I found her to be exhausting over how long she was the victim and fell into a trap. I get the premise of collateral damage from Michael's decision of joining "the family", but it could have been played with less sympathy. After all, she had a choice and chose wrong, for herself.

Biggest flaw in the Godfather series is they made a third one

It insists upon itself.

It may have just hit me wrong. But once it did, it's been something I can't unsee. There's a sort of feedback loop at this point where I tense up when the scene starts, which of course takes me out of the movie, which means I'm experiencing the moment all wrong.

Biggest flaw I can think of is you can see the bullet hole in McCluskeys head before Michael shoots him there

IMO, there are a few notable moments where the violence looks comically fake (Mo Greene's death in particular).

Is it not their second kid or something

I don't think it's unnecessary at all. It changes him fundamentally as a person. He becomes a bitter, cynical, ruthless man as a result.

Kay was in his life prior to him going to the dark side. Maybe she always represented to him an innocent/pure version of himself.

Must be right? Skipped over that 2nd pregnancy I guess.

The pacing. Sooooooslllooowwwww

I love the money pit.

I just finished watching 'The Offer' and it gave a different impression about this scene. Fun series, highly recommended.

In the book the murder of Apollonia is what prompts him to decide to join the family. For what it’s worth

They got good food in this I-talian restaurant?

I think it’s largely a wake up call that no matter what he does he cannot escape the family business and live in peace. It will follow him and destroy everything he loves if he keeps trying to run away.

I love the Appolonia part. Bc before that, Michael is Americanized with his waspy, college educated girlfriend. The. He returns to his roots and his primal self falls for Appolonia based purely on wanting to bang her and that she’s untouched. Without speaking to her, he arranges to marry her with her father, without discussing it with her. In modern terms, it’s like the guy who pretends to be woke but then… not so woke. Then finding out Sonny was murdered and Appolonia was too, and he’s in vengeance mode.

Oh I liked how she acted that. I actually thought Connie’s lines were less realistic but not on her part. I just think Connie would have kissed up to her bro more.

I love that scene. The biting is the best