bill to ban gender affirming care for kids currently being debated

Submitted by comefromawayfan2022 t3_11ngvd7 in newhampshire

https://www.wmur.com/amp/article/new-hampshire-bill-gender-affirming-care-children/43239700

This is so messed up. This has the potential to harm the mental health of Soo many kids who'd be forced to hide their true identities and go for years being uncomfortable in their own bodies because they can't get the care the deserve. Have any of the people who support this bill had to grow up watching the mental health of kids who were trans and non binary be awful because they couldn't be their true selves? And couldn't get the care they needed for their appropriate genders? And didn't feel safe to come out because their families didn't approve? I've seen it and it's awful..I have trans and non binary friends who have awful PTSD and depression because of the lives and childhoods they were forced to live.

Also which idiot state rep was stupid enough to compare kids being able to get the care they need to millions of people being murdered in the Holocaust?

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smartest_kobold t1_jbnrybw wrote

Nice to see the legislature focusing on what's really important, increasing the number of teen suicides.

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valleyman02 t1_jbnu411 wrote

The march of the far right extremist continues in New Hampshire. Gerrymander, gerrymandered, gerrymandering.

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bossman118242 t1_jbo4u7u wrote

i agree, that someone under 18 years old, should not be making permanent changes to their bodies. i think education should be there and schools should be teaching way more then they are now.

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posttheory t1_jboecyy wrote

What's your view on circumcision, repair of hare lip or cleft palate, ear piercing, dressing the way one feels, taking prescription medicines, etc.? If doctors, parents, and, most of all, the children themselves make decisions weighing all the factors, shouldn't the rest of us butt out?

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bossman118242 t1_jboh643 wrote

All the things you mentioned are reasonable and I have nothing against them. Dress how ever they want, in high school I painted my nails and got both my ears pierced as a guy which was not the norm back then. I still believe a decision that can change your entire life with no way to take it back or reverse it should wait til 18 years old. Removing body parts or organs or altering major things just based on how someone feels should wait til 18. If people want to make the arguments that 18 is when you can join the military and risk your life then 18 should be the standard across the board for most major things. Of course it’s different for life saving and medical necessity. Many people get tattoos at a young age and when they get older they regret it, this COULD happen with this kind of stuff to. Yes I agree your body your choice. If someone is determined enough sure they will find a way and just go to a state that approves of it. People make more dumb decisions as a teenager.

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posttheory t1_jboi6ih wrote

Overall I tend to agree, except that mental health too is medical and can lead to medical necessity, which patients, family, and doctors should decide, not us.

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comefromawayfan2022 OP t1_jbqw7qs wrote

If I had let my family decide my mental health care based on "medical necessity" then id be dead...I came from a family that had absolutely zero belief in mental health care. I had to go to therapy in secret because when I first approached my mom about seeking therapy she laughed in my face and basically told me nothing was wrong with me(despite the fact that id been battling depression and anxiety for years at that point). When I told her at that point that I was 21 and I was telling her I was going to therapy and not asking her she basically told me if I proceeded with this shed sell my car(yeah she was abusive, controlling and a narcissist).

This is also the same parent who for years refused to let me get a professional diagnosis of depression as a kid because "I was just looking for attention"(turns out depression doesn't work like that)

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posttheory t1_jbr7dir wrote

Very sorry that happened. You're exactly right: the child's health needs should come first, including mental health. That's the necessity. And it applies to care and counseling for depression, anxiety, gender issues, dealing with bullies, whatever. No legislature should interfere.

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mmirate t1_jbrfiqa wrote

> living with parents at age 21

Yeah, that's a "you" problem.

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comefromawayfan2022 OP t1_jbrg7js wrote

I no longer live with them and we are minimal contact. But there are not exactly a whole lot of living options for adults who are on the autism spectrum and don't have the life skills to live independently or on their own with roommates..so my only choice at that point was living with my parents..add in emotionally abusive and narcissistic parents who guilt trip you and emotionally abused and manipulated you at the slightest talk of even moving out and it adds a whole new layer of complications to the living situation.

I moved out about a month after that and my parents sent the fucking cops to my new address to harass me and tried to get the cops to drag me home. Living situations are complicated when dealing with abusive and toxic folks

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llambo17 t1_jboqsun wrote

>mental health too is medical and can lead to medical necessity,

Elaborate on that like medical necessity in what way?

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Newgidoz t1_jbqw4el wrote

>Of course it’s different for life saving and medical necessity.

Citations on transition as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:

  • Here is a resolution from the American Psychological Association; "THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments." More from the APA here

  • Here is an AMA resolution on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage

  • A policy statement from the American College of Physicians

  • Here are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines

  • Here is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians

  • Here is one from the National Association of Social Workers

  • Here is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, here are the treatment guidelines from the RCP, and here are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS here.

  • Here are the guidelines from the New Zealand Medical Journal

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bossman118242 t1_jbqxajs wrote

cool so they can do it at 18, that works.

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Newgidoz t1_jbqxpao wrote

How are people who take their own life before 18 supposed to transition after 18?

How are people who are forced through unwanted irreversible changes that damage their health before 18 supposed to avoid them after they've already happened?

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Paper_Disastrous t1_jbobrva wrote

What are schools not teaching that they should be?

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bossman118242 t1_jbocatw wrote

Sex education, self care, jobs , how to do taxes how to manage money. Emergency first aid and preparation. Life stuff. How to build support systems

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Paper_Disastrous t1_jbodmn4 wrote

So....sex education and self care ARE taught in schools.

What do you mean by "jobs"? You want teachers to teach how to do a job? There's a name for that: college.

How would you suppose teachers teach how to do taxes? They teach algebra...that's more than enough math to handle filing taxes. Same with money. The tax code changes every year.

Emergency first aid and preparation? Most schools have a requirement for teachers to learn it. I suppose a day where an instructor shows the students how to administer first aid could be helpful in highschool. You don't need a whole semester for it.

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bossman118242 t1_jbokm4w wrote

sex education could improve ALOT in schools, many schools are removing it or just not taking it seriously. self care taught in school? since when? i never saw anything even remotely close to it in the schools i went to.

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jobs as in a kid getting out of high school should have several options of what they want to do for a job. they should support and allow kids in high school to go to different job sites and shadow different careers they want to do and/or promote computer work like coding and repair and building of technology instead of pushing it to a after school program or not fund it at all like most places just ignoring it.

a tax class like how they work what they are, how to manage and invest money. tie taxes and money management in the same class. how to save and spend responsible. ive literally never used calculus or algebra ever in my adult life. adding and subtraction sure.

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a half a semester class or full semester class would definitely be beneficial on emergency and first aid stuff. daily tasks like kitchen fires, broken leg while camping, mom passes out how do you call 911 or where to get help. obviously it be different for each age group or level and probably keep the more advance stuff for high school.

school should be more geared toward preparing you for life. just a small example ive had 2 16-18 year old kids join my team at work recently and they are fresh out of high school with no skills or how to act in public professionally. dropping fuck this fuck that infront of customers, smoking weed on their 15 minute breaks and seeing nothing wrong with that. eating food on the counter on the sales floor. just not prepared for the workforce at all. late to the point of almost being fired countless times. kids should be coming out of high school being able to maintain a job and live on their own at 18. yes not everyone is like what i explained above but there is a huge group of them that are.

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llambo17 t1_jbp2s83 wrote

Very good and valid points. I went through the Leb school district not too long ago and even though we had decent programs, there were still flaws and things that should be changed or added. I was fortunate enough to be selected to go to the Hartford VT votech school in my junior and senior years but out of the 10 or so classes there, only 2 students from each school in the region can attend. This should be open to any if not all students which would be a stretch due to the lack of teachers, but it brings real world skills of the workplace and trade world to students and gives them the choice to choose a path that they have interest in rather than beat them to death with the college route stick. Learned how to talk to random people with respect, give good handshakes, think outside the box in situations where we may have forgotten a piece of equipment or the weather changed, and learned how to present ourselves properly in the community without being puppets or having sticks up our ass. Also learned a lot about the environment and the practices that we should be taking as both communities and states and the vast inaccuracies the media spreads.

For the sex ed programs, we had sex ed classes in 5th grade which were pretty informative and straight forward, then in 8th grade we had half a year of home ec which included a week of contraceptives and parenting including the dreaded mechanical baby that was a good way to instill the use of contraceptives into our heads. Then another weeklong class in 10th grade which was pretty good also.

Another class we had in both 10th and 11th grade was a few weeks in our government class that had us look into our future careers, a group project into starting a business and finding out what we would need legally for that business and a few other minor things we did but nothing related to preparing us for financial readiness in the workforce via teach us the breakdown of taxes and the different terms, what number to claim for taxes on your wages, etc.

Now for the GAC bill, I agree with the bill to ban that kind of care in the form of procedures or medication to anyone under the age of 18 even with permission of the parents. Young adults, teens and kids are very susceptible to believing anything they are told especially from very 1 sided political parents on both sides. But allowing the opportunity for them or anyone to affect their natural growth and possibility of permeant unreversible changes to their body's is unethical and Stright up wrong. Once they or you are 18, go ahead and do whatever you want as longs as it doesn't affect me, my kids or anyone else lives negatively. We should apply more funding to bring more therapist and phycologists to schools and the communities so anyone can get the mental help they need and maybe realize the effect of certain apps, social medias and fads have on the young population and maybe put more funding to the research behind those effects or limiting them in the schools or the state. There's good reasons TikTok is being looked into and not being banned weather you believe them or not.

Social media and more specifically snapchat at the time when I was in HS definitely had an effect on myself and my friends in HS and I was lucky to not let it and FB control my life and feelings and friendships. Didn't care how many online friends I had, or how many likes I had on IG or how many snaps a day I was getting, we just lived our lives having fun camping, building things like redneck paddle boats or ice shanty's, launching fireworks around the fire, going to the beach or hiking on the many trials around the upper valley.

Sorry in advance for the rant, don't find comments that often I agree with on reddit, and I'm bored at work.

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Paper_Disastrous t1_jbov73h wrote

Oh ok now I'm starting to understand. You don't want schools to replace Math and Science with these things, you think they should enhance sex education and add self care to curriculums, take kids on numerous field trips to showcase different occupations every year, and devote a whole semester to 1st aid. That sounds really nice as long as we dont do the addition and subtraction on how much money all that would cost. And this bill is good because it will keep kids from taking hormones which they wouldn't need if schools were better? Or is it gonna generate more tax revenue to pay for field trips and higher teacher salaries so that they can raise kids right while their parents slave away on the sales floor?

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bossman118242 t1_jbowfpx wrote

lol it does not have to go that deep, i agree with part of the bill, you don't and public schools suck. pretty simple. we could fix our problems with the amount of taxes we get hit with now.

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Paper_Disastrous t1_jbp1mfi wrote

So your points are you like the bill because teens SHOULD be banned from any kind of gender affirming care but also public schools suck because....they don't teach kids how to do 1st aid or taxes.

You also have no idea how to fix schools other than "not going to deep" into some extra programs that will be funded by pixie dust and a couple thoughts a prayers I suppose?

Here's a better idea. We start taxing the shit out of corporations and billionaires and putting that money into education and healthcare. Then we pay teachers enough to survive raise the minimum wage so the kids on your team give a fuck about their jobs and we make college and housing more affordable?

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bossman118242 t1_jbp2dxs wrote

your assuming i am a conservative which i am not. your idea is missing some very important facts, if we "tax the shi tout of corporations and billionaires" we will lose alot of them. there is nothing stopping a company or person from moving out of country. some already have. for example a few youtubers who make millions moved to another country for lower taxes and they now pay even less united states tax. companies with billions of dollars have no problem moving out if it gets bad for them.

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Paper_Disastrous t1_jbp44vg wrote

I'm assuming you're libertarian, lol. If you were a conservative you would have already called me a libtard and cried about Illegals.

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bossman118242 t1_jbp7g09 wrote

😂 honestly not sure what party I relate with more. I don’t identify with any of them. I’ve voted democrat and republican and for a independent. Im big on animal rights conservation I’m pro 2a, pro freedom, i hunt and fish and trap. Wild game is better then what we get at the grocery store. I’m against lobbyist. We should be able to own whatever guns we want with background checks. pro choice when it comes to abortion. I’m not a fan of free healthcare because I’ve seen it in action when I lived in the uk and I have a disability and it was horrible trying to find the right care or a specialist that knew what my disability is. Yea it was free but lower end care then what I get here with a specialist and doctors that have treated my disability since the 90s. I’m open to “free” healthcare in the usa if we can make it work good. Not sure what that makes me lol. Conservative hate me and democrats hate me so lol

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Jean-Paul_Sartre t1_jbslwjc wrote

The whole "schools should teach how to do taxes" cliche is silly. It's the easiest thing in the world and sites like TurboTax or FreeTaxUSA hold your hand through every simplee step.

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bossman118242 t1_jbsm443 wrote

Thats if your tax return is simple, once you get into self employment or Uber or any of the contractor jobs it gets more complicated. Also it’s just part of the point not the whole picture. The whole point is schools should prepare you better for life in general.

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Jean-Paul_Sartre t1_jbsn9ta wrote

I agree with your overall point, I just get tired of the "schools should teach how to do taxes" example being overused and oversimplified as some kind of magic key to unlocking an easy transition into adulthood.

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V1198 t1_jbnw0jy wrote

The NH legislature is an embarrassment. It’s a purple state through and through yet our elected officials act like they are from Florida.

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llambo17 t1_jbp3tgk wrote

Besides the traffic, I-4, and occasional hurricanes, Florida is doing pretty damn well as a state and is making it's way up to the top. Should go down there some time, Tampa is a beautiful diverse area, and many communities are retired northern folks. Met a few from NH and have actually camped at their campgrounds up here and they love it in FL as do a lot of people I know. Nice place to spend summers as long as the red tide isn't flaring up.

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V1198 t1_jbp85py wrote

Florida has a Governor that’s way out of control. Up here in NH we like our government small and our Governors in check. Then there’s the whole Florida man thing. That state is basically just bath salts and sunshine, hard pass.

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Paper_Disastrous t1_jbp9btz wrote

It's a nice place to retire to after you move off the benefits of living up in New England. However if you're gay trans, a woman, a teacher, a student or a younger adult trying to get a job and find a house to rent, you are absolutely f*****.

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llambo17 t1_jbpu05k wrote

True on that first part and it's a bit cheaper to live down there if you don't make much and like manufactured homes but I would have to disagree with that second part. Not sure on your experience's and how you have come to that conclusion but visiting down there in the winters and talking with my friends and family that live there, some who are middle to very low income have not had many issues, if not at all. Only issues my family has had that was related to the government was trying to get disability which Florida judges are very hard to convince even with solid evidence because of the amount of people who are trying to get it with little to no issues. Also, I don't have any trans friends just one that's gay and he hasn't had any grips about the area, state or jobs. He keeps trying to get me to come down and work with him which I may. Also, there federal laws that protect people from discrimination in the workplace and hiring environment and Florida is pretty diverse, if there was issue like that, I'd think the younger people would be leaving the state, not moving in from places like Cali, NY and New England. Tampa imo is the place to be in the winter. Then NH in the summer.

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Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_jbo6457 wrote

If children are having an identity crisis, they should be in therapy with a qualified therapist. There is no reason a child should be given drugs or surgery that can cause irreparable changes. Allow children's bodies to develop as they should and when the child reaches adulthood, they can decide how they want to proceed.

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comefromawayfan2022 OP t1_jbo702x wrote

Kids are usually in therapy for years. This law is stupid because it doesn't take into account that you have to be sixteen anyway in order to start hormone therapy so it's not like a "child" is being given drugs or surgery. Because by the time hormone replacement therapy is started, they are already teenagers

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11_Wolfie_11 t1_jbqb0yt wrote

Are they in therapy for years? Sources, please.

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comefromawayfan2022 OP t1_jbqtvkp wrote

You can literally Google gender dysphoria and look it up yourself. The diagnosis process consists of a behavioral health evaluation. To even qualify to START hormone replacement therapy, you need a letter of referral from a qualified licensed mental health provider. In order to get that kind of referral letter, you need to have an established relationship with a mental health provider and be able to prove you've been seeing them regularly for quite some time.

You ask for specific sources. My sources are the trans friends and classmates I have who have had gender affirming care and who have been through the process of transitioning. My friends have spoken at length about the years of therapy they've needed and the therapy they STILL currently get because with being transgender comes an alarmingly high amount of discrimination, stigmatism, depression, anxiety, self-harm, PTSD. My best friend had to see a therapist once a week for four years and THEN the therapist finally agreed to write him a referral letter to a multi-disciplinary gender clinic for hormone replacement therapy.

The first line of treatment is literally counseling and therapy...you can Google the gender clinic at Boston children's hospital and read more about what they offer if you want your own sources

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exhaustedretailwench t1_jbpl1ts wrote

they don't perform the surgery on minors, end of. plus, trans people go thru lots of counseling for years before surgery and throughout hormone therapy. this is a situation that should remain between the child, the parents, and the medical staff.

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valleyman02 t1_jbogvgn wrote

No children are having surgeries. These drugs do not cause irreparable harm. Why are people misrepresenting the facts. To stop a doctor/patient relationship. Trying to block healthcare and mental health care for kids and adults?

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11_Wolfie_11 t1_jbqcdog wrote

Isn’t there also a bill out there now being proposed that parents don’t need to be in the loop on all of this…? And yes, puberty blockers cause irreparable harm. And yes, children in this country as young at least as young twelve have had surgeries done.

Saying someone should be an adult before they do this shit isn’t bigotry. In my personal opinion, being 36, even 18 is way to fucking young to be making these kid of calls about the rest of your life. In the other hand, I get it. If someone will be happier on the other side, don’t rob them of their youth in that role. But…yeah, no.

The core of the issue is influence, not perceived phobias.

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comefromawayfan2022 OP t1_jbqvcrk wrote

There are certain cases where transgender youth SHOULD be able to make these types of decisions without their parents info. It's one thing if a transgender youth has loving and supportive parents then yes that's absolutely a time the parents should be involved. But not all transgender youth have that. Kids get thrown out of the house over these types of things and LGBTQIA youth will take their own lives and attempt to take their own lives because of family discrimination and lack of family support..in those types of situations than absofuckinglutely the parents should have zero say.

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11_Wolfie_11 t1_jbrc4p4 wrote

So…what about all the mislead detransitioners that are left in a no-man’s-land?

And just so I’m clear on what you’re saying:

The parents need to agree with what these outsiders are saying they’re child needs, or they get no say in the matter…right? No.

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scarletuba t1_jbs5o2j wrote

https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/

8 in 100 detransition in any form. 62 in 100 of those did it because of societal pressures and not because they personally wanted to.

So if you have a population of 1000 people who have transitioned in any way, 80 might have fully detransitioned or partially (meaning they might be "switching/etc). Only 30 chose to detransition and didn't claim it was due outside pressure.

Contrast to suicidality

https://www.gendergp.com/what-is-the-transgender-suicide-rate/

50% consider suicide. 20% attempt

So 50 in 100 are in such destress that they want to die.

20 in 100 try to die. Note: not 20% of 50% like the above stat... In a population of 1000 people who have identified as trans, 500 comtemplate suicide. 200 attempt.

Note: data on completed suicide is lacking because of how deaths are reported.

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Newgidoz t1_jbqwmfb wrote

>can cause irreparable changes

Denying puberty blockers causes unwanted irreparable changes to their body

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MamaBearForestWitch t1_jbqgtpf wrote

The legislature needs to get the hell out of the exam room and let kids and families figure out their medical care with their physician.

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ZacPetkanas t1_jbo99m8 wrote

It's not your fault OP, but this is typical garbage WMUR "reporting."

They don't provide a link to the bill, or even give us the number of the bill so we can look up the text for ourselves. All we have is the title of the article to go on.

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ZacPetkanas t1_jboadld wrote

I'm not even a reporter, like those people who work at WMUR are allegedly supposed to be, and I believe this is what they're talking about.

HB 417-FN would amend RSA 169-C:3, II(f) to include the following in the definition of what may define an Abused Child for the purposes of RSA 169-C: > (g) Subjected to drug treatments or surgery in an attempt to alter the sex of the child assigned at birth, except in rare cases of ambiguous genitalia. For purposes of this subparagraph, ambiguous genitalia refers to a medical condition in which a child's gender at birth is in question because the genitals do not appear clearly male or female.

Hopefully all those links work.

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vexingsilence t1_jbosfdf wrote

Seems like the harder is to find the actual bills, the more the media is misrepresenting them.

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philandere_scarlet t1_jbocmfg wrote

So as always with these bills, they're leaving in the nice little loophole where they have carte blanche to mutilate intersex kids for cosmetic purposes.

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scarletuba t1_jbs61ft wrote

Ugghhhhhhhhh that is so damned infuriating.

I don't freaking get it. If the baby has a serious medical issue that needs surgical intervention - fine! We KNOW how dangerous/harmful it is for intersex to be forced into the wrong identity.

Information that "shockingly" aligns with data on trans populations.

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friedbanshee t1_jbr8uuj wrote

Gender affirming. Anything expressing concern and you are labeled a bigot. Hormones have lifelong effects on growing bodies. The detrans community grows each day. It has been an incredibly interesting social phenomenon to watch from the outside. It will be interesting to see where it falls when the kids of this generation are fully grown. A lot are already blaming the drs for letting them go forward. Social media strongly influences growing minds looking for a place to fit in.

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11_Wolfie_11 t1_jbq915h wrote

How much of the population do you actually think is trans, versus the amount of people who are swept up in a fad? Especially kids, who are influenced by educators and internet influencers who have a vested interest in promoting their world view.

No, kids should not have shit put in their bodies, or surgeries that alter them for the rest of their life. Period. This whole thing is some next level Brave New World shit, and it needs to stop.

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Newgidoz t1_jbqx4it wrote

>How much of the population do you actually think is trans, versus the amount of people who are swept up in a fad? Especially kids, who are influenced by educators and internet influencers who have a vested interest in promoting their world view.

It is vastly more common that kids are influenced and forced to appear cis, including being forced through unwanted irreversible changes like you want

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11_Wolfie_11 t1_jbrbl0a wrote

You are right, but so…demented.

Nobody is “influenced” to be “cis.” “ What “cis” actually is, is biologically ingrained motivation that perpetuates our species, outside of all our inventive proclivities, so…I’m not sure what to tell you.

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Newgidoz t1_jbrj4sc wrote

I can assure you as a trans person who had to stay closeted when I was young, people are absolutely influenced to look and act cis

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