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pahnzoh t1_ivote0x wrote

I hear this so often, but am always missing the actual justification to vote for Democrats if you still support small government and individual rights. Why would you choose something that goes against what you believe in even more?

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skullpizza t1_ivp3qao wrote

I just vote in the opposite way a Nazi would vote lately because, in my view and many others, Donald Trump is a lazy fascist demagogue who would destroy our democracy if reelected. Anyone tangentially allied with him has got to go.

Also, I was disturbed by the underhanded way republicans took control of the supreme court and roe v wade was a big issue for me as well, being the father of a little girl.

I don't like taxes, I like firearms, I prefer government small where possible. But Trump and abortion are not negotiable. Until republicans divorce themselves of the far right election deniers, I will never vote for them again.

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pahnzoh t1_ivp6ev0 wrote

It is unfortunate that Republicans cling to religion and trump, and I'd agree with you there, but I hate an equal if not more number of policies supported by the Democrats.

I can't bring myself to vote for a Democrat either, since their goals are antithetical to almost everything I believe in as someone who cares deeply about individual rights and property rights.

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skullpizza t1_ivp8age wrote

There are a number of liberal policies I would like to see passed in NH as well. Abortion protections, and recreational weed. It is insane to me that Mississippi passed recreational before NH.

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pahnzoh t1_ivp97qu wrote

I kind of hate that we still all use the term liberal and conservative.

Those are also libertarian positions that I support.

Liberals have largely abandoned any sense of individual rights other than abortion, and seem to support legislating anything that happens to be brought into the political Overton window at the time, rights be damned.

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skullpizza t1_ivpa2vh wrote

I would say that libertarians support recreational weed far less than liberals, same for abortion. This is largely due to the greater overlap of people who call themselves libertarian with those who are typically more conservative.

Can you give me some specific examples of the points you are talking about? What specific policies are you worried about from liberals? I am worried about their tendency to tax into oblivion and overregulate. I am not worried at this time about their position on guns because of the SCOTUS.

That being said, more regulation would have been nice for chemical dumping in Manchester so that French plastics company would have had a harder time polluting all that ground water along the Merrimack with PFAs.

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pahnzoh t1_ivpg4bz wrote

Those are conservatives then and not libertarians. Libertarians don't support criminalization of any drug.

Abortion has been a tough issue across the entire political spectrum because it hard to apply any principle rigidly because it involves balancing of interests between mother, father, child, timing, state, etc. Most Libertarians are against abortion regulation. But there are Catholic Democrats that are for it. It's a hard issue honestly that creates splits in all groups.

I am worried about their position on guns. I am outraged by it too. They want to lock you and me in prison for owning guns. Drive in MA with a gun and see what happens if pulled over by a state trooper. They will prosecute you and try to imprison you per the state laws the Democrats passed. They want to imprison you for it. That is evil and not defensible in my opinion. The fact that they are attempting to do this, but are unsuccessful due to SCOTUS or otherwise, is not an availing argument to me. If someone tried to kill me and was unsuccessful, should I not have any level of disdain for them? I see that as the same with Democrats and can't in good conscious ever vote for someone like that.

I don't think any party or ideaology is in favor on chemical dumping. Republicans have been going after St. Gobain hard.

Democrats otherwise don't respect my bodily independence other than abortion. Biden and the Democrats tried to force vaccination of a novel vaccine that turned out to not be all that effective. Hypocrites that use bodily autonomy as an excuse.

Democrats otherwise just want to ban, tax, and regulate anything they disagree with. From local to national government. Not saying Republicans are a great alternative in many contexts but I see Democrats are despicable.

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skullpizza t1_ivpoetm wrote

The amount of libertarians who claim other self-reported libertarians as nonlibertarian is so prevalent it is a meme, lol. I agree though libertarians should be that way(against any drug prohibition).

The gun issue is real, but I don't have a lot of worry about laws like that getting into NH politics in the short term.

In addition, I agree with vaccine mandates for public schools for healthy students. I also get prickly around the rhetoric thrown around for the mRNA vaccines. They are proven quite effective at preventing death at the very least. There has been a lot of politically charged rhetoric thrown around regarding them but it doesn't bare out. I don't think companies should necessarily be mandated to have workers be vaccinated to secure employment but again, I think the vaccines are good overall.

For the record I work in medical equipment manufacturing and have multiple close family in medicine. The doctor in my family advocated the vaccine the most and is the most conservative of us having been a Rush Limbaugh fan in their teenage years.

I don't support a general vaccine mandate. But it isn't a key issue for me.

Anyway, not here to defend democrats, I just hate the fascist election deniers. They can go to hell.

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pahnzoh t1_ivpswbf wrote

Oh I'm not really making a scientific claim about the vaccines. The record shows they worked initially and as the virus mutated it got more complicated from there.

My point was that I don't want the government forcing it on me. The same proponents of abortion also happen to be pro vaccine mandate. I find that to be intellectually dishonest. Even if it's good for you, the government still ought not do it. The same way they don't mandate diet and exercise, which a lack thereof has a massive adverse effect on health costs.

I think the election denier claims are silly and unfounded. But it's low on the chain of issues that I'd potentially vote on. The mistaken belief that the election was stolen is not being pushed as future legislation against my rights, which is something the Democrats are doing to a greater extent than most Republicans.

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Fuzzy-Scar3055 t1_ivpet42 wrote

Sununu decriminalized weed. Hassan as governor was against decrim and although she passed medical, it was very watered down and extremely conservative. Our MMJ program is shit as a result.

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skullpizza t1_ivpfjc3 wrote

Full recreational or nothing. And yeah, not all dems are for recreational either, I would argue more of them are though.

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ShortUSA t1_ivoypwo wrote

I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative, I think like most NH folks. The problem is that at the federal level neither party is fiscally conservative, not in the bills they pass. I'm more interested in actions not words and the fact is both parties are in a race to spend more more more. Both parties kowtow to global corporations, their biggest contributors. Both just pour tax dollars and debt to global corporations. But the Dems sometimes have the money run through average people's hands first, providing average for some benefit. The Republicans, always being ahead of the Dems, have long ago given up the facade of caring about the average American. Yeah, the words are otherwise, but the actions are clear.

The US has been in decline for decades due to this ever increasing serving of global corporations, and at most placating average Americans.

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pahnzoh t1_ivozpzo wrote

Yeah I agree both parties largely govern as one. But when you look at actual senate or house votes that set the two parties apart, it's clear that the Republicans are on average favoring limiting government, individual rights like the first and second amendment, judges that will uphold individual rights against the state, etc. If that's your goal, it is very counterintuitive to me how supporting a Democrat would accomplish that.

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ShortUSA t1_ivukstr wrote

There is nothing conservative about providing tax cuts, primarily to the wealthiest Americans, and dramatically increasing spending. Which is exactly what has happened, and generally all that was significant that happened, on each occasion Repubs had control over the past 35 years. In spite of the talk of the cuts increasing revenue, it was debatable the increases had anything to do with the cuts, and the increases never came close to catching up with spending, in effect the experience was one of increasing deficit. This started with Reagan, as documented by his economic advisors in a book they wrote after the presidency. That was in the days when conservative politicians actually cared about things like deficit spending, budgets, etc. How they care, but only as for the talking points to beat Democrats over the head with. Just look at a chart of deficit spending and you will see the greatest increases in Repubs have control. As a recent example, look at Trumps first two years. The Repubs had even greater majorities than the Dems do now, and they cut taxes and increased spending. I fear you're getting caught up in the words and politics. Repubs love to beat up Dems for spending, but in the last 40 years the generally the only spending Repubs fight is that for Americans. If the spending is for global corporations they are all in favor of it. If the tax cuts are for global corporations they are all over it. If the cuts are for Americans, such as payroll, etc, they fight them.

Favoring large corporations is not a Republican thing. Dems do it too. The difference is, as always, the Repubs are ahead of the Dems and are generally not attempting to help Americans. The Dems are still doing little things to placate Americans. The Repubs just do that not in actions but words. Both kowtowing to global corporations is systemic, in that the way our government operates causes that focus. Focus on global corporations due to their wealthiest owners and execs, industry groups, and lobbyists providing the bulk of money to politicians and their parties.

In a nutshell, neither party well represents Americans or even America, due to the system. One can't really win a federal seat if they spurn corporations, many of which are financially larger than most countries. The best recent evidence of this broken system is American picking alternative candidates: Trump, and while he didn't make it, Sanders. The odd thing is that average Americans of both parties are unhappy and seeking alternatives. And they are generally unhappy for the same reason, financially we're in a time when this generation is not doing as well as the previous. This is clear in the US's fall in standard of living relative to other countries, and fall in percentage of the global economy. The US has been in decline for at least 4 decades. And Americans are feeling the pinch, if not knowing why. The parties are taking advantage of the stress by suggesting the problem: immigration (when many more jobs were lost to automation, which is not discussed), over taxation, when pretty much all other countries have higher taxation, but that is changing. And distracting people from the corporate largess.

Why do Americans, who used to have some of the best prices in the world for most all products and services, now spend more than most citizens of other developed countries. Simple, the government supports it, as it is good for corporations. Rather than fostering competition and lower prices the government subsidizes outrageous pricing. This is no more evident in healthcare. And now Dems are making motions at fixing it, but even they are really not doing anything significant, they can't afford to lose the campaign and PAC money the healthcare industries contribute (insurance, Rx, hospitals, etc, etc). The Republicans don't even try, they talk about nonsensical things like cross state boarder competition for health insurance, when most of the insurance companies are in most all states. The real reason Republicans want this is at the behest of insurance companies who do not want to deal with individual states regulations - insurance regulation state controlled and pain for companies to deal with each state individually. I could go on and on, but I have already been too long.
No campaign finance reform, no joy.

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