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kingtiger88 t1_iyhw28a wrote

What the article doesn't mention is that his wife had advanced alzhiemers. His previous wife also died from cancer so he probably didn't want to go through all of that again. Not to excuse it but that was probably his motive.


warren_stupidity t1_iyhwtgj wrote

This is why assisted suicide ought to be legal.


Maldonian t1_iyi0j4z wrote

That's a reasonable opinion to have and a reasonable thing to debate, but I don't think it would apply in cases like that. I'm not sure if you've ever been around with someone in the later stages of Alzheimer's or dementia, but their mind is so far gone that they're incapable of making basic decisions (such as whether or not to wear a warm coat today), let alone make a decision about their own life. Someone with cancer could be listened to regarding this; someone with dementia cannot.


nixstyx t1_iyi97p8 wrote

This is why it should be legal and only available to people of sound mind -- BUT enforceable if someone stipulates that, "should I ever be incapable of making such a decision ..." Sort of like a DNR, but like, don't keep my body alive if my mind is no longer there.


valleyman02 t1_iyi6ksp wrote

Right and I could argue that it's cruel and unusual punishment to make somebody with advanced alzheimer's spend their life savings to survive. After having literally lost their mind. I get this is a really personal choice and it's a matter of ethics. Which as Americans we don't seem to have much ethics nowadays. At least many of our leaders don't seem to have any ethics. It seems just like everything else that's hard. We just kicked the can down the road. Which I guess is probably human nature. To ignore negative behavior. It's a very personal choice. And I assume in this political environment will never be addressed. So people are going to do what they think is best. Whether it's legal or not.

It was only a hundred years ago where people thought not taking a bath was healthier than taking a bath. And with what we know today that's an easy decision. This one is much harder.


Maldonian t1_iyi9490 wrote

I think everything you said is reasonable and valid, and even if there's a thing or two I disagree with, I wasn't trying to invalidate your opinion. I was just trying to frame the discussion a bit.

1: Should the law allow terminally ill, but mentally sound, people to take their lives? (Doctor assisted suicide.)

2: Should the law allow us to end someone else's life, someone with an unsound mind, if the person doesn't express any wish to die, but is suffering from a terminal mental illness like dementia, with no cure, because the person's spouse or children think it would be for the best if they die today instead of letting the illness play out until the end?

#1 seems to have a fair amount of support from lots of people.

#2 is something most of us have agreed is a reasonable thing to do with our pets. I think it's going to be very, very difficult to get the average citizen and/or many lawmakers on board with allowing it for humans.

In any event, I do agree with you that dementia is a messy and difficult problem, and unless a cure is found, we're going to get more and more of it, as people start to live for more years than they used to in the past. It's both costly and torturous to go through.


valleyman02 t1_iyizifg wrote

Right it shouldn't be in politicians hands. It should be an ethical board of doctors. It's very individual Case by case. Reality is it takes a lot of funding for that care. I don't have an answer. But this is been an issue for 30 plus years and it would be nice to finally move past some of these issues. So we could address some newer issues. Before we're just buried by problems with no solution and everything just blows up. Which seems to be where we're headed.


AMC4x4 t1_iyicxp7 wrote

A relative had Alzheimer's for ten years. As her memory went, she became friendlier and nicer than she had ever been when in control of her faculties. She was just happy to go through her day to day guided activities, she just didn't know anyone or remember anything. Kind of tough to say this person should be assisted suicide, but yeah, she was pretty well off and by the time she died last year, the system had drained every penny she had and then some. She had close to a million dollar house that was sold for her care. It was tragic.


Patsfan618 t1_iyi02yr wrote

Would assisted suicide be an option for someone with severe mental decline? That seems like it'd be fraught with ethical problems. What if they're partner has POA, but the person doesn't consent, themselves? How do you determine that the person is making a legitimate decision and not just saying things? I don't know the answers but it's not a simple solution.


Redsoxy77 t1_iyi3om1 wrote

Ideally, they could have the discussion and even possibly include in legal documents before the person loses capacity.


TXblindman t1_iyi24yi wrote

Would have to be written in an advanced care directive. So you must be of sound mind when writing that. Even then don’t know that would hold up.


Patsfan618 t1_iyi3rqc wrote

Yeah, because if they have a legal written consent, but then withdraw that consent post-decline, is the consent still valid? I'm glad I'm not a medical ethicist because it's way too deep


nothinglefttouse t1_iyi194d wrote

No - in Death with Dignity states you have to be of sound mind


Redsoxy77 t1_iyi3xe3 wrote

Then things like this will continue to happen until something is changed. I am going to Maine at the end!


nothinglefttouse t1_iyi5k93 wrote

Agreed - if someone is dx'ed with Alzheimers or dementia, they should be able to make the decision while they're still of sound mind. It's no different than a terminal cancer diagnosis.


AMC4x4 t1_iyid7dq wrote

I posted above that a member of the family had Alzheimer's for ten years. By the time the disease set in fully, she became the happiest person you ever wanted to see. Just loved going through her day to day guided activities at the center she was in. Really tough to think about someone like that going through assisted suicide. Dementia takes lots of different forms, for sure.


AMC4x4 t1_iyibp08 wrote

My mom died from Lewy Body Dementia in June (well, complications from it). The last couple years were rough for my dad, who was her full time caregiver. He mentioned just last night when we were talking that he would have taken care of her forever, but I have called them every night for the past four years and there were nights I didn't know how much longer he could go on caring for her. At times he said he was desperate and needed help, so my wife and I would try to arrange help for them, and then a day or two later, they'd say they didn't need it. Dad is stubborn, but mom was more so, and she laid down the law that she didn't want people in the house. So they'd get through whatever crisis there was, then be OK for a couple days, and then it would be right back into the terribleness of the disease and they'd barely be holding on. I was grateful when summer came around again because wintertime in NH, closed up in your house caring for a loved one with dementia 24/7 just has to be terrible, no matter how much you love the person. I miss my mom terribly, but I'm so glad for my dad that he didn't have to go through another winter caring for her full time, even though he says now he would have been happy to have done it.

I don't know the psychology of it, but it's obvious that the brain tends to forget the most traumatic events and seeks to minimize how difficult things were when you're going through them.


BenThere20 t1_iyj9ose wrote

My aunt died of complications from Lewy Body as well. And right this moment I am sitting next to my mother as she has her last hours from Alzheimer’s. Dementia of any type is horrible, but I feel glad my mom did not go through Lewy Body.


AMC4x4 t1_iyjcbnv wrote

I'm so sorry... I wish you strength in the hours and days ahead...


I_knowwhat_I_am t1_iyjr0l9 wrote

Stay strong, she knows you are near her, even if she cant show you. I've been in your situation recently, and it is so hard. Your presence means the world to her. She can't tank you, but I will on her behalf! Thank you!


SainTheGoo t1_iyixktx wrote

I'm sorry for your loss. My grandfather has lewy body dementia and it's a constant worry on my mind. It's still in fairly early stages but they live 3 hours away so it's stressful. I wish they'd move, but they're worried a new location will be confusing and stressful to him.


AMC4x4 t1_iyjr54c wrote

Ugh. I'm so sorry... It's a horrible affliction.

I get the distance thing. My folks were 300 miles away (and dad is by himself there now). I have some property in NH but it's way up north, so not really useful for these circumstances. When mom was sick he put an office in the upstairs of the garage, so I will probably go up for a week here and there and work from his place. Really difficult when there's some distance involved. Only thing I can offer is take care of yourself if you can. Sometimes that's all you can really control.


Trailwatch427 t1_iykm4vm wrote

That's what Robin Williams was suffering from, Lewy Body Dementia. That's why he committed suicide, he couldn't face life anymore. Then everyone said he had severe depression, and criticized his family and friends for not being supportive enough. Your story helps people understand the extraordinary challenges and tragedy of this disease. Thanks for your post.


AMC4x4 t1_iyl6v7v wrote

When we first suspected Lewy Body, someone told me that it was what Robin Williams suffered from as well. I had never heard of it before. But the more I learned about it, the more I understood why he did what he did. If he had clarity at any point about what was happening to him, it's totally understandable wanting to go out on his own terms and not being able to face what he knew was involved with the likely progression of the disease.

A relative had Alzheimer's for ten years. She didn't have the digestive tract issues, swallowing issues, the nausea, hallucinations (actually, this one was for YEARS before other symptoms appeared - she would see people in the dark), sleeping difficulties, the entire autonomic nervous system issues... I'm not at ALL discounting the challenges of those suffering from Alzheimer's, I will just say again, I can understand Robin Williams' actions.

I had been thinking of deleting my comment as it seemed too personal, so thank you. I'll leave it. This is, indeed, a terribly challenging and horrible disease.


Trailwatch427 t1_iyoy2ic wrote

Please keep it there. I heard so many folks criticize Williams' family and friends. There was a young man in my community, only 38, who committed suicide because he'd been suffering from schizophrenia for 20 years. He went from being a cheerful, slender young man, full of music and mischief. At thirty-eight, he was obese and glassy eyed from all the drugs he had to take. He just couldn't face his life continuing to go downhill. His parents were 70, for them it was the end of his life, but also the end of all the emergency calls to hospitals and the police. Loss of sleep, loss of time.

His dad had bought an old mansion, and converted it into a rooming house for his son and others in need of supportive housing. Then his son was in his own home, but also surrounded by a caring group of friends. Still, the man took his own life, despite the love and support. We really need to stop judging family and friends in these cases.


grrliz t1_iyistz5 wrote

I always think about this as a possible motive when it comes to elderly murder/suicide cases. Very sad.


GraniteGeekNH t1_iyibsm3 wrote

If this gets confirmed by a source for publication it will be part of follow-up stories. That is certainly the rumor and frankly the supposition from many of us when we saw their ages.


Maldonian t1_iyi025n wrote

I did start to wonder that. I recently lost a loved one to dementia, and while I never considered killing the person, I could see how that might cross someone's mind. It's a terrible disease that greatly affects not only the sick person, but everyone around them.

But where did you get this information? We don't want to spread rumors without being sure.


kingtiger88 t1_iyi1488 wrote

I work for the town


Maldonian t1_iyi2x4t wrote

Thank you. That does change my opinion on this situation. I don't think he made the right decision, but I can understand it. I want to be a little bit vague to protect the privacy of my loved one, but I saw the disease first hand and I saw the terrible things it does.

PS People tend to use the words Alzheimer's and dementia interchangeably. Dementia describes the various diseases that attack the brain and damage memory, personality, and decision making. Alzheimer's is the most common type of dementia.

Interviewing someone with dementia, and looking at their medical history, can give you a pretty good idea of what kind of dementia they have. But currently, the only way to definitively diagnose Alzheimer's is by doing a brain biopsy after death.

So, not to nitpick, but just to inform.


AMC4x4 t1_iyichkv wrote

Yup. My mom had Lewy Body, but it was so frustrating because the doctors couldn't even give an actual diagnosis. But it was so clear that's what it was - from seeing people in the dark (which started six or seven years before any other symptoms materialized), to the red nose and sniffles, to digestive issues, to confusion that came and went, until things got really bad.

There definitely needs to be more education to the public about all the forms of dementia. It's a horrible, horrible syndrome, and anyone with a family member going through it, it's like a "secret society" where you know what someone else went through if they had it, but society at large has no idea if they haven't known someone affected by it.


steelymouthtrout t1_iyi66bg wrote

Oh goodness that is sad but it certainly makes sense. Perhaps both people had advanced medical issues. May they both rest in peace.


DeerFlyHater t1_iyke7ss wrote

If this is true, it is unfortunately not the first time I have seen/heard of this or similar situations. Sometimes they agree and leave a note, sometimes it is an unfortunate 'mercy killing' then suicide.

I would not want to be put in either situation.


Open-Industry-8396 t1_iyhygq7 wrote

Winter is tough on mental health in NH. Buckle up.


jeffgolenski t1_iyi56kq wrote

Buckle up and clear the snow off your roofs.


SheeEttin t1_iyiygb1 wrote

And car windows. Not just a palm-sized hole in the windshield.


largeb789 t1_iyjh3de wrote

What is this snow stuff you talk about? There's no snow in NH anymore.


monkeyinheaven t1_iyhed1k wrote

When I first heard this I thought there may be more to the story, like maybe she was terminally ill. 3 shots would argue against that though. Curious to hear more details.


thread100 t1_iyigpx8 wrote

3 sounds like a good way to insure she wouldn’t suffer.


DOCoSPADEo t1_iyih5jr wrote

If it was any kind of euthanasia, 1 shot to the head would have been enough.


nhfirefighter13 t1_iyjfs1d wrote

If he truly loved her and was familiar with firearms, that’s the last place he’d have shot her. He wouldn’t want anyone to see the resulting damage to her face.


DOCoSPADEo t1_iyjgi9a wrote

What? Death isn't about looking pretty, it's about the end of things.

A headshot is the least painful way to go out. If I wanted to die I'd want my head blown off


mmirate t1_iyjmdo4 wrote

A headshot is only quick and painless if it destroys the brainstem. That is a relatively small target that is easily missed. (And hollow-point bullets don't make the task any easier because the brainstem is not surrounded by enough tissue to make an incoming hollow-point bullet expand significantly.)

If the brainstem is missed...

Without the frontal lobes the brain can still survive; ask Phineas Gage.
Without the upper respiratory tract, there is the risk that the body (and brain) can still survive via artificial life support if the EMTs' attention is drawn too quickly.


Esy158 t1_iyjejv8 wrote

As someone who knows the family I can confirm that she sadly had rapidly progressing dementia and was likely to pass soon anyways


Due-Patient-8264 t1_iyiwdmd wrote

So sad..guy was very well respected in his community. Guess you really never know. condolences to famiy.


TreePointOhhhhh t1_iyjqi7t wrote

Very sad story. Maybe they had a notebook moment and discussed it during one of her lucid spots. That’s what I hope anyways. Tragic story either way. Condolences to the family.


throwawaysscc t1_iyl1vy8 wrote

I don’t think he was a responsible gun owner in the end.


mmirate t1_iyl5h7n wrote

I hope a hospital keeps you alive as long as inhumanely possible while your brain rots away from dementia.


1carus_x t1_iyoyact wrote

I was driving with my dad and we passed by. Wondered what all the cops and fd were for 😰


rabblebowser t1_iyhd7er wrote

"Lyon was a lifelong gun owner who believed in the recreational use of firearms and hosted a talk about responsible gun ownership with the New London Country Squires, a social luncheon group, in June.""


Maldonian t1_iyhtuhu wrote

Unfortunately, it appears he was also an asshole who believed in recreationally murdering his wife.

Thankfully, most gun owners manage to make it all the way through their lives without being assholes or murdering their wives.


KrissaKray t1_iyhmsuy wrote

Okay and?


dahwhat t1_iyhop5w wrote

Obviously we're ALL murderers


largeb789 t1_iyi57fh wrote

No, we're not. But it's really hard to ignore the fact that having a gun in the house does lead to an increased risk of someone in the house dying from the gun. Usually through suicide. My guns are all locked up, but having them used in a suicide is reason enough for me to consider selling them. A murder suicide would be even worse.


dahwhat t1_iyi9cez wrote

As a rational person/mutiple gun household, I don't disagree with you, but, in my house we get therapy before suicide/homicide becomes a thought.

Too bad some people choose to not do the same.


FatherOfTheVoid t1_iyigrkp wrote

If I want to kill my self, I shouldn't be limited to ropes and heroin. Stop trying to take away my rights.


largeb789 t1_iyivgdh wrote

So me reconsidering whether I want guns in my home affect your rights? Please explain.


FatherOfTheVoid t1_iyizunp wrote

Because I, if I'm suicidal, want to be able to walk into your home and kill myself with your guns.


dj_narwhal t1_iyifq8c wrote

It is much less detached from the action to pull a trigger than to stab her or poison her. Guns are a tool that make killing easier. That is why we bring them hunting, I can't chase down a partridge and I would not hunt if I had to beat them to death with my hands. Seems messy.


KrissaKray t1_iyiouiz wrote

But you could always use a compound bow 💁🏼‍♀️


valleyman02 t1_iyhp6nu wrote

We have a record year for homicides by gun. That's at least the third double homicide of the year and we're way over 30 homicides when the record of the state is only 29. Your freedom doesn't give you the freedom to blow my head off. Edit for swearing at a troll. I hate trolls.


FaustusC t1_iyhpv0m wrote

Ah yes.

An 80 year old killing his spouse and himself means we're all in danger.


valleyman02 t1_iyhqurl wrote

No record homicide rate by guns means we're all in a lot more danger than we used to be. Some hunters have gone crazy this year. I just had a guy shoot a rifle at night from his truck less than 300 ft from my house. Shots are going off after dark almost every week. People have lost their mind.


CheliceraeJones t1_iyi4z9o wrote

No one should be shooting a firearm from a vehicle. Call the police if you witness that happen, and try to get the license plate if you can do so safely.


FaustusC t1_iyhrr41 wrote

You're welcome to move back to California if it suits you better.

Also, if you're not involved in crime or actively abusing your partner, your odds of dying by firearm are miniscule. In the US, I believe I read today we were at 20,000 homicides in a country of 320,000,000 people. A notable amount of the deceased were dealing narcotics, involved in gang activities or other criminal dealings. Now that said, do you still have a reason to worry?


psiloryben t1_iyhyj4t wrote

>Now that said, do you still have a reason to worry?

Yeah, because the violence that follows drugs and gang activity is not exclusive to drug and gang activity.


FaustusC t1_iyjjej0 wrote

Then do your civic duty and report them :)


Maldonian t1_iyhtxmm wrote

Or we could try doing this crazy thing called keeping criminals in jail.


valleyman02 t1_iyhvm4s wrote

I'm for that too. Especially the violent criminals. People that have shown violence Time after Time. We should put them on a pretty short leash.


Maldonian t1_iyhzsg5 wrote

Exactly. I'm not sure how many chances we should give people who repeatedly behave violently. Perhaps more than zero, but certainly less than ten.


Feisty-Shopping6326 t1_iyhty0r wrote

New Hampshire has some of the lowest gun crime in the USA, if there were no fire arms involved he most likely would’ve found another way of going about it.


valleyman02 t1_iyhvapt wrote

I'm not sure that's true anymore. I know crime and murder and homicide and suicide are way up since covid. We have a higher homicide rate with weapons than Massachusetts does. Mass does have higher crime stats and violence. But with gun homicides we were like three times the rate of Massachusetts. And our low numbers do skew this cuz we're such a low population compared to Massachusetts. I'm not saying I have the answers. but it's pretty clear we have a problem. We're literally the only country in the world that has regular school and mass shootings.


FatherOfTheVoid t1_iyihix7 wrote

> I'm not sure if that's true anymore

Then find some sources to backup your argument


SomeSortofDisaster t1_iyhpv22 wrote

A murder suicide is a triple murder?


valleyman02 t1_iyhqcp0 wrote

Yeah I meant double homicide of the year thanks for correcting me I fixed it.


SomeSortofDisaster t1_iyhqpiz wrote

A suicide is a murder?


valleyman02 t1_iyhrl9d wrote

I never said murder. I said homicide by gun. So you're right it's one murder and one suicide. Two lives lost because a gun nut decided that a gun was the answer. And as a gun owner. Guns are never the answer. Guns are for sport not murder unless you're in the army. We have way too many people that think guns are the answer for violence. When really they're just part of the problem.


catslapper69 t1_iyhxu9w wrote

Got a new gun last night!


valleyman02 t1_iyib475 wrote

Cool is that an attempt to intimidate? And you kick cats as well as slap them? Inquiring minds want to know?


FatherOfTheVoid t1_iyihqf8 wrote

Brb, gonna buy another gun and kill the neighborhood cats.


catslapper69 t1_iyj25sb wrote

No I just felt like sharing, and I love my kitties its just a funny name


CheliceraeJones t1_iyi3vwo wrote

Congrats! What kind?


catslapper69 t1_iyj1wtp wrote

Thanks, got myself a sig mk25, gonna run it here in a bit should be a ton of fun!


Reaccommodator t1_iyiwzbg wrote

Love this trolling. Very funny but like also bad ass. In a tough “I don’t care about other people’s concerns” way. Healthy, productive, and mature.


CheliceraeJones t1_iyj5lmf wrote

I'm going to assume you meant to reply to someone else. I replied to someone else who was trolling calling them out, so if you think I'm trolling you can go ahead fuck right off.


Reaccommodator t1_iyiw9cn wrote

Now this comment pwns… epically, sir! XD

Normally people would try and foster understanding or something constructive. But not this guy. This guy proudly loves gun and that annoys people who are concerned about people getting shot. And annoying scared people is good. Epic XD


catslapper69 t1_iyj2fqi wrote

This whole thread is fucking pointless so I thought I would add some more useless information to it. Le epic win reddit we did it lulz


Reaccommodator t1_iyj5vlk wrote

Exactly. It’s important to try and belittle people for showing concern about anything at all. So funny


Dry_Distribution_628 t1_iyhpnlg wrote

You're completely unhinged and I'm glad someone like you doesn't have an interest in guns because I wouldn't want to see what the result of that would be...


valleyman02 t1_iyhpxet wrote

I'm just sick of people dying for your freedoms you gun nut are killing humans. Fuck off.


JennyB443 t1_iyhrwyd wrote

Interesting how anyone who voices an even slightly contrary view to yours is automatically labeled a “gun nut”. To be quite honest, not having access to a gun wouldn’t have stopped this man from killing his wife.


valleyman02 t1_iyhsl6m wrote

It's funny so many people self identify as gun nuts. I didn't call anybody but murders a gun nut. I know a ton of guys with weapons. That have fun with weapons. That are safe with weapons. I also know of guys that shoot weapon from their trucks that shoot after dark. That are unsafe with weapons. Those are the gun nuts. Not the safe and responsible hunters.


JennyB443 t1_iyht166 wrote

I ask you to refer to your above comment, where you may or may not have called the other commenter a gun nut.

> I'm just sick of people dying for your freedoms you gun nut are killing humans. Fuck off.


valleyman02 t1_iyhudyx wrote

Guns are not the answer. As a gun owner I enjoy shooting. And it's always the owners that are unsafe or worse that get the attention. I get that 99% of all gun owners are safe gun owners. But we have a problem and you can't fix a problem until you admit you have one. That's all I'm saying.


JennyB443 t1_iyhvgsb wrote

If that’s all you’re saying, might I suggest in future discussions saying that clearly (as you just did) instead? You came across very strongly as an anti-gun-for-anyone type.


valleyman02 t1_iyhwa9e wrote

The time to be meek is over. Obviously there's a bunch of people that are fine with all the mass shootings, murders and mayhem. I'm not one of them.

Plus that guy is just a troll. You want to defend him fine.


JennyB443 t1_iyhxfmq wrote

No one here has stated that they are “fine” with mass shootings, murder or mayhem. I have my own thoughts on what the root of the problem is, and surprisingly it isn’t guns. Guns are the most accessible tool used to perpetrate violence by those who have no respect for human life. If we didn’t have guns, it’d be knives, bombs, and any number of other weapons. Taking away guns doesn’t take away the violence, because at the end of the day it isn’t a gun problem, it’s a people problem. But God forbid our government focus on fixing its broken people and the societal issues that impact them.


clarenceisacat t1_iyhsorz wrote

'not having access to a gun wouldn’t have stopped this man from killing his wife'

You can't possibly know that.


JennyB443 t1_iyhsvhk wrote

Lol you can’t be serious


clarenceisacat t1_iyhu6ql wrote

You have no idea why he did what he did and what he would or wouldn't have done in another scenario. Speculating is disgusting.


psiloryben t1_iyhz25n wrote

Y'all get mad defensive every time someone is shot lol


Madly_Maxie t1_iyj49jz wrote

At least we are not a complete prick.


psiloryben t1_iyj5der wrote

Oh shit dude my diary is gonna hear about this one


Madly_Maxie t1_iyj5zvi wrote

...and then he sat back proud of his comment. That should show him.


psiloryben t1_iyj6nrg wrote

I mean, you felt compelled to reply and tell me you don't care, lol


nhbruh t1_iyinyy1 wrote

Exactly, for all we know it was a consensual murder/suicide. Relax.


psiloryben t1_iyitihx wrote

I meant more like, every time someone is shot, every gun owner in the sub rushes in to remind everyone they're not a murderer.


nhbruh t1_iyiz5uz wrote

Ha, well that makes sense. Your comment lacked sufficient context so I figured why not have some fun with it.


psiloryben t1_iyizmo4 wrote

Nah that's fair, I noticed after your post it was pretty vague