Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

kingtiger88 t1_iyhw28a wrote

What the article doesn't mention is that his wife had advanced alzhiemers. His previous wife also died from cancer so he probably didn't want to go through all of that again. Not to excuse it but that was probably his motive.

111

warren_stupidity t1_iyhwtgj wrote

This is why assisted suicide ought to be legal.

53

Maldonian t1_iyi0j4z wrote

That's a reasonable opinion to have and a reasonable thing to debate, but I don't think it would apply in cases like that. I'm not sure if you've ever been around with someone in the later stages of Alzheimer's or dementia, but their mind is so far gone that they're incapable of making basic decisions (such as whether or not to wear a warm coat today), let alone make a decision about their own life. Someone with cancer could be listened to regarding this; someone with dementia cannot.

14

nixstyx t1_iyi97p8 wrote

This is why it should be legal and only available to people of sound mind -- BUT enforceable if someone stipulates that, "should I ever be incapable of making such a decision ..." Sort of like a DNR, but like, don't keep my body alive if my mind is no longer there.

14

valleyman02 t1_iyi6ksp wrote

Right and I could argue that it's cruel and unusual punishment to make somebody with advanced alzheimer's spend their life savings to survive. After having literally lost their mind. I get this is a really personal choice and it's a matter of ethics. Which as Americans we don't seem to have much ethics nowadays. At least many of our leaders don't seem to have any ethics. It seems just like everything else that's hard. We just kicked the can down the road. Which I guess is probably human nature. To ignore negative behavior. It's a very personal choice. And I assume in this political environment will never be addressed. So people are going to do what they think is best. Whether it's legal or not.

It was only a hundred years ago where people thought not taking a bath was healthier than taking a bath. And with what we know today that's an easy decision. This one is much harder.

5

Maldonian t1_iyi9490 wrote

I think everything you said is reasonable and valid, and even if there's a thing or two I disagree with, I wasn't trying to invalidate your opinion. I was just trying to frame the discussion a bit.

1: Should the law allow terminally ill, but mentally sound, people to take their lives? (Doctor assisted suicide.)

2: Should the law allow us to end someone else's life, someone with an unsound mind, if the person doesn't express any wish to die, but is suffering from a terminal mental illness like dementia, with no cure, because the person's spouse or children think it would be for the best if they die today instead of letting the illness play out until the end?

#1 seems to have a fair amount of support from lots of people.

#2 is something most of us have agreed is a reasonable thing to do with our pets. I think it's going to be very, very difficult to get the average citizen and/or many lawmakers on board with allowing it for humans.

In any event, I do agree with you that dementia is a messy and difficult problem, and unless a cure is found, we're going to get more and more of it, as people start to live for more years than they used to in the past. It's both costly and torturous to go through.

8

valleyman02 t1_iyizifg wrote

Right it shouldn't be in politicians hands. It should be an ethical board of doctors. It's very individual Case by case. Reality is it takes a lot of funding for that care. I don't have an answer. But this is been an issue for 30 plus years and it would be nice to finally move past some of these issues. So we could address some newer issues. Before we're just buried by problems with no solution and everything just blows up. Which seems to be where we're headed.

1

AMC4x4 t1_iyicxp7 wrote

A relative had Alzheimer's for ten years. As her memory went, she became friendlier and nicer than she had ever been when in control of her faculties. She was just happy to go through her day to day guided activities, she just didn't know anyone or remember anything. Kind of tough to say this person should be assisted suicide, but yeah, she was pretty well off and by the time she died last year, the system had drained every penny she had and then some. She had close to a million dollar house that was sold for her care. It was tragic.

3

Patsfan618 t1_iyi02yr wrote

Would assisted suicide be an option for someone with severe mental decline? That seems like it'd be fraught with ethical problems. What if they're partner has POA, but the person doesn't consent, themselves? How do you determine that the person is making a legitimate decision and not just saying things? I don't know the answers but it's not a simple solution.

10

Redsoxy77 t1_iyi3om1 wrote

Ideally, they could have the discussion and even possibly include in legal documents before the person loses capacity.

9

TXblindman t1_iyi24yi wrote

Would have to be written in an advanced care directive. So you must be of sound mind when writing that. Even then don’t know that would hold up.

5

Patsfan618 t1_iyi3rqc wrote

Yeah, because if they have a legal written consent, but then withdraw that consent post-decline, is the consent still valid? I'm glad I'm not a medical ethicist because it's way too deep

4

nothinglefttouse t1_iyi194d wrote

No - in Death with Dignity states you have to be of sound mind

3

Redsoxy77 t1_iyi3xe3 wrote

Then things like this will continue to happen until something is changed. I am going to Maine at the end!

6

nothinglefttouse t1_iyi5k93 wrote

Agreed - if someone is dx'ed with Alzheimers or dementia, they should be able to make the decision while they're still of sound mind. It's no different than a terminal cancer diagnosis.

6

AMC4x4 t1_iyid7dq wrote

I posted above that a member of the family had Alzheimer's for ten years. By the time the disease set in fully, she became the happiest person you ever wanted to see. Just loved going through her day to day guided activities at the center she was in. Really tough to think about someone like that going through assisted suicide. Dementia takes lots of different forms, for sure.

3

AMC4x4 t1_iyibp08 wrote

My mom died from Lewy Body Dementia in June (well, complications from it). The last couple years were rough for my dad, who was her full time caregiver. He mentioned just last night when we were talking that he would have taken care of her forever, but I have called them every night for the past four years and there were nights I didn't know how much longer he could go on caring for her. At times he said he was desperate and needed help, so my wife and I would try to arrange help for them, and then a day or two later, they'd say they didn't need it. Dad is stubborn, but mom was more so, and she laid down the law that she didn't want people in the house. So they'd get through whatever crisis there was, then be OK for a couple days, and then it would be right back into the terribleness of the disease and they'd barely be holding on. I was grateful when summer came around again because wintertime in NH, closed up in your house caring for a loved one with dementia 24/7 just has to be terrible, no matter how much you love the person. I miss my mom terribly, but I'm so glad for my dad that he didn't have to go through another winter caring for her full time, even though he says now he would have been happy to have done it.

I don't know the psychology of it, but it's obvious that the brain tends to forget the most traumatic events and seeks to minimize how difficult things were when you're going through them.

34

BenThere20 t1_iyj9ose wrote

My aunt died of complications from Lewy Body as well. And right this moment I am sitting next to my mother as she has her last hours from Alzheimer’s. Dementia of any type is horrible, but I feel glad my mom did not go through Lewy Body.

14

AMC4x4 t1_iyjcbnv wrote

I'm so sorry... I wish you strength in the hours and days ahead...

9

I_knowwhat_I_am t1_iyjr0l9 wrote

Stay strong, she knows you are near her, even if she cant show you. I've been in your situation recently, and it is so hard. Your presence means the world to her. She can't tank you, but I will on her behalf! Thank you!

9

SainTheGoo t1_iyixktx wrote

I'm sorry for your loss. My grandfather has lewy body dementia and it's a constant worry on my mind. It's still in fairly early stages but they live 3 hours away so it's stressful. I wish they'd move, but they're worried a new location will be confusing and stressful to him.

5

AMC4x4 t1_iyjr54c wrote

Ugh. I'm so sorry... It's a horrible affliction.

I get the distance thing. My folks were 300 miles away (and dad is by himself there now). I have some property in NH but it's way up north, so not really useful for these circumstances. When mom was sick he put an office in the upstairs of the garage, so I will probably go up for a week here and there and work from his place. Really difficult when there's some distance involved. Only thing I can offer is take care of yourself if you can. Sometimes that's all you can really control.

2

Trailwatch427 t1_iykm4vm wrote

That's what Robin Williams was suffering from, Lewy Body Dementia. That's why he committed suicide, he couldn't face life anymore. Then everyone said he had severe depression, and criticized his family and friends for not being supportive enough. Your story helps people understand the extraordinary challenges and tragedy of this disease. Thanks for your post.

3

AMC4x4 t1_iyl6v7v wrote

When we first suspected Lewy Body, someone told me that it was what Robin Williams suffered from as well. I had never heard of it before. But the more I learned about it, the more I understood why he did what he did. If he had clarity at any point about what was happening to him, it's totally understandable wanting to go out on his own terms and not being able to face what he knew was involved with the likely progression of the disease.

A relative had Alzheimer's for ten years. She didn't have the digestive tract issues, swallowing issues, the nausea, hallucinations (actually, this one was for YEARS before other symptoms appeared - she would see people in the dark), sleeping difficulties, the entire autonomic nervous system issues... I'm not at ALL discounting the challenges of those suffering from Alzheimer's, I will just say again, I can understand Robin Williams' actions.

I had been thinking of deleting my comment as it seemed too personal, so thank you. I'll leave it. This is, indeed, a terribly challenging and horrible disease.

5

Trailwatch427 t1_iyoy2ic wrote

Please keep it there. I heard so many folks criticize Williams' family and friends. There was a young man in my community, only 38, who committed suicide because he'd been suffering from schizophrenia for 20 years. He went from being a cheerful, slender young man, full of music and mischief. At thirty-eight, he was obese and glassy eyed from all the drugs he had to take. He just couldn't face his life continuing to go downhill. His parents were 70, for them it was the end of his life, but also the end of all the emergency calls to hospitals and the police. Loss of sleep, loss of time.

His dad had bought an old mansion, and converted it into a rooming house for his son and others in need of supportive housing. Then his son was in his own home, but also surrounded by a caring group of friends. Still, the man took his own life, despite the love and support. We really need to stop judging family and friends in these cases.

2

grrliz t1_iyistz5 wrote

I always think about this as a possible motive when it comes to elderly murder/suicide cases. Very sad.

19

GraniteGeekNH t1_iyibsm3 wrote

If this gets confirmed by a source for publication it will be part of follow-up stories. That is certainly the rumor and frankly the supposition from many of us when we saw their ages.

14

Maldonian t1_iyi025n wrote

I did start to wonder that. I recently lost a loved one to dementia, and while I never considered killing the person, I could see how that might cross someone's mind. It's a terrible disease that greatly affects not only the sick person, but everyone around them.

But where did you get this information? We don't want to spread rumors without being sure.

13

kingtiger88 t1_iyi1488 wrote

I work for the town

15

Maldonian t1_iyi2x4t wrote

Thank you. That does change my opinion on this situation. I don't think he made the right decision, but I can understand it. I want to be a little bit vague to protect the privacy of my loved one, but I saw the disease first hand and I saw the terrible things it does.

PS People tend to use the words Alzheimer's and dementia interchangeably. Dementia describes the various diseases that attack the brain and damage memory, personality, and decision making. Alzheimer's is the most common type of dementia.

Interviewing someone with dementia, and looking at their medical history, can give you a pretty good idea of what kind of dementia they have. But currently, the only way to definitively diagnose Alzheimer's is by doing a brain biopsy after death.

So, not to nitpick, but just to inform.

14

AMC4x4 t1_iyichkv wrote

Yup. My mom had Lewy Body, but it was so frustrating because the doctors couldn't even give an actual diagnosis. But it was so clear that's what it was - from seeing people in the dark (which started six or seven years before any other symptoms materialized), to the red nose and sniffles, to digestive issues, to confusion that came and went, until things got really bad.

There definitely needs to be more education to the public about all the forms of dementia. It's a horrible, horrible syndrome, and anyone with a family member going through it, it's like a "secret society" where you know what someone else went through if they had it, but society at large has no idea if they haven't known someone affected by it.

5

steelymouthtrout t1_iyi66bg wrote

Oh goodness that is sad but it certainly makes sense. Perhaps both people had advanced medical issues. May they both rest in peace.

11

DeerFlyHater t1_iyke7ss wrote

If this is true, it is unfortunately not the first time I have seen/heard of this or similar situations. Sometimes they agree and leave a note, sometimes it is an unfortunate 'mercy killing' then suicide.

I would not want to be put in either situation.

4