Have you spoken with an attorney?

Not yet. Nobody seems to know what to do and we are all in dire restraints as water is not something you can live without. Even if we do get an attorney I will be out of pocket a lot of money by the end of it. Everyone is afraid that their property value will drop. Personally I just want the well fixed and sound the alarm. Nobody should have to go through something like this.

How deep is the well?

I totally agree! If your neighbors are dealing with the same issue though...this could be a big deal. Did you purchase through the builder directly or did you work with an agent?

PS how is this the town council's problem?

Did you do a well inspection and performance test prior to purchase? We did one during our home inspection process.

Talk to an attorney. You have a ton of leverage here. Your bank gave you a mortgage for a home that is not habitable. They will make this a huge problem for the right party. Use the lawyer to contact your mortgage broker correctly. Don’t talk to anybody else about this except the lawyer.

>Is this normal

no

get a lawyer.

A quick Google search shows that there’s been an issue with dry wells in Brookline since at least June of 2020. There is also a database that shows the output of each well in the area. Maybe there is some info there that will help your case.

The well is 1000 feet. It’s the town councils problem because they were introduced legislation three years ago to require that wells are properly functioning before selling a house. They voted against it and the developers are knowingly selling bum homes and the council will verbally abuse anyone who says otherwise. Guess they are getting some kick backs from the developers. These are $750,000 homes, its not nothing.

We had an agent who helped us. She hasn’t been to keen on helping us now though :(

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Talk to a lawyer. You have recourse. Our builder was sketchy with water as well (not in Brookline and now about 8-9 years ago). To my neighbors and I they were offering incomplete or erroneous water and well test results. They have an obligation to sell you a habitable dwelling that includes potable water. In me and my neighbors’ case it wasn’t lack of water but arsenic content they were trying to hide. Once the scope of the issue came to light many of us were able to get the builder to pay for filters and remediation. If I were in your position I would be pressuring your builder to pay for a deeper well. You may also have additional leverage during that warranty year since you just moved in a couple months ago.

I mean, lawyers exist for a reason. Sometimes they're necessary

In additional to seeking legal advice perhaps someone could anonymously leak this story to the media. Seems like something a local news station that does investigative journalism might be interested in, and shining a light on the issue on a larger stage would put a lot of pressure on the developers and any other parties involved in wrongdoing.

This is an issue that only an attorney can help with. It’s not necessarily an issue with the well installer or the town government. But whatever the issue is, only a lawyer can help you here.

That doesn't make it the problem of the *board of selectmen* (If you're going to grouse, at least learn what you're grousing about). None of them are obligated to vote for any legislation. Failing to check that the plumbing was working before taking the keys may work against you, but as others have said: lawyer up because you may have cause of action against the developer. You could also talk to the town's well water committee, which you'll find if you do the search referenced in an earlier comment or go to the town's web site.

Holy shit thats a deep well

That’s because the agent is partially on the hook. If you all collectively have the same issue, the attorney’s costs can be less. At least find out what can be done.

If you can afford a 750,000 home, is 35k really that much to have them fix it?

This logic is hilarious. To what end?

Get yourself a good attorney. Not next week or a couple months from now. You need to get one ASAP!

1000 feet is super deep already, might just be really bad luck that there wasn't enough rain and snowmelt in the area to replenish the aquifers, and you could be perfectly fine next year.

What are you doing now, did you get a water tank ?

You need to lawyer up! Also… it would be a shame if local media got word of this. Whole house of newly built homes don’t have water? Seems like someone in the town government made a MASSIVE mistake in approving these homes to be approved for build. Likely the town will be on the hook to ensure remediation. Again - lawyer up

Your property value already did drop. You can’t sell this house for anywhere near 750k without running water. No one would buy it on the hope they can spend 35k to potentially fix the problem. But I bet you’re still paying real estate taxes on the full appraised value

Don’t badmouth anyone to anyone, including your town officials, the builder, his subs, real estate people anyone! Don’t name names verbally or in writing. Your lawyer will appreciate this and you wii not be at risk when your sued for defamation. Let your lawyer speak for you!

Form a neighborhood group and go have an initial meeting with a well connected real estate lawyer. Nashua certainly has them. You can’t afford not to if you’ve already signed up for $750k. At my closing years ago the seller had to sign a form stating there were no special conditions or situations with the property that they were aware of, but I’m just redit moron. Get a lawyer

It’s lawyer time

I think they just did. I’m sure the media subscribes to this subreddit.

Why would Skillings stop if they didn't hit water? They need to be approached too.

The TC has no responsibility to your and your purchase.

I want to say in 1995, there was a section of Bedford 'The Birds' where the whole neighborhood was struggling to access water enough that Pennichuck plumbed in a line and set up a pretty big tank at the highest point in the neighborhood and set up a fairly local water distribution system that was lengthened enough to feed a grade school not too far away.

Maybe your TC can have Pennichuck do the same thing for that area, too. Going to their site, it doesn't look like Brookline is part of that system...

I am not a geologist but I wouldn’t be surprised if your neighborhood might have to form a bit of a coop to find water and install a local water network. I doubt the town will do it unless under court order.

I had the same reaction. That's the deepest well I've ever heard of.

Did you waive the home inspection?

> We did ask about the well before closing but the information we were given does no match what we bought.

Do you have that documented? If they knowingly lied to you your lawsuit should be easy.

> When we talked to the developers we were threatened with lawsuits if we spoke publically and one of our neighbors started getting death threats.

Classic intimidation. That's when you know you have a case. But you also need to make sure you're not saying anything you can't prove.

As everyone else said, contact a lawyer and make sure you keep records of all the communication you've had with everyone. If a lawyer seems too difficult to start out with, contact a real estate agent from a different town and ask them to review your paperwork.

Nope, everything appeared fine which is why I am making this post. Every piece of paper we got said everything was ok when in fact Brookline is a low yield well area and you may need to install multiple wells. Our neighbor has four! Just don‘t want unsuspecting people to get suckered like we did.

I didn’t know that was a thing. I’ll look into it and see if it’s possible/ an option.

That’s an interesting piece of history! I’ll look into it. The problem with the council is that there are no laws around water mitigation or water requirements in our area. There are however laws in the areas around us. The council was approached about this three years ago and they voted it down knowing that housing would be built in areas that had no water.

Honestly didn’t think about that. Just wanted to let people know especially the ones with small kids. This has been brutal financially and mentally.

That’s insane! I really can’t believe the lack of conscience of some people.

Which I had googled before I bought! Never had a well before and didn’t even know this was a problem.

They have a responsibility to their constituents to pass laws that ensure access to clean safe water

Yup, exactly this

We are looking into the options, but so far we are thinking a rain harvesting system, well manger, and deeper pump.

This has been a problem in Brookline over the past few years. I believe there is a committee that was formed to study it. If it is all the same builder, it sounds like you could have a class action suit against the builder because they are responsible.

Someone in the town planning board/dept approved an occupancy permit for these houses. You need a working water supply and septic/sewer to obtain an occupancy permit. If you are on town water and dont pay your bill your water gets shut off they can eventually pull your occupancy permit and condemn your house for health violations. I would get a copy of the occupancy permit from the town and potentially inquire with the board of health.

Grew up in the Birds during that time. Can confirm.

Yeah these builders in particular were kind of crooks we learned in hindsight. Our house is largely built well so I don’t have complaints there but they had a history of stiffing their contractors and filing bankruptcy and rinse wash repeat under a new business name I guess.

I'm an attorney. I've read the whole thread and most of your comments. This isn't legal advice, just my 2 cents.

If what you say is true, the developer could potentially be on the hook to remedy multiple homes. The cost to do that would likely be in the hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars. This is assuming that they either have to go deeper on each well or alternatively develop some type of centralized solution like bringing town water to the development or creating a centralized pump/storage/distribution facility.

Unless the builder is some sort of huge multi-million dollar corporation, it's more likely that they file bankruptcy in an attempt to avoid liability. This is why it's important that you move fast. If it gets to the point where they are being sued by multiple parties, it's most likely too late.

Call around and try and get a consultation with an attorney that does litigation. You don't want a "real estate" attorney who deals with closing and things like that. You want an attorney who sues people and goes to court ("litigation"). Going to court is very expensive, but you would be surprised how far you can get with just a nasty letter. The mere fact that you're represented by counsel and exploring litigation will scare the shit out of the other side. Go on a website like https://www.avvo.com/ and send out a few feelers.

Seconding this. Lawyer here also (not yet barred in NH, also not legal advice) but the wells not functioning should have been in the disclosures.

https://law.justia.com/codes/new-hampshire/2015/title-xlviii/chapter-477/section-477-4-c

The builder may be in deep shit here.

What about the town? I'm assuming the water never worked as opposed to stopped working after construction finished. Can the plumbing inspector really sign off on a house with no water?

There is a book devoted to the myriad of conditions where homes in the US are without adequate water. It's a serious issue.

Right — how does a new build get a certificate of occupancy with no running water? Or is that not a thing in live free or die land?

I know that Hollis has two acre minimum lot size, mostly for well management. (And growth control). The “town center” has much smaller historical lots and they have town water system.

One would think but...there is a thing called the Public Duty Doctrine which essentially says since a municipality functions for the public good if they do something negligent then you can't sue them because you are suing the public for whom they are supposed to be working for. You have to show that you are owed a duty specifically not just that a duty to the public is breached.

Now there are exceptions, specifically where the state government has carved out things people can sue municipalities for or sometimes for lack of enforcement.

Here they could argue that the lack of enforcement was the issue but the government hates setting the precedent that they can be sued for things.

Take this on a smaller scale, builder builds a set of stairs, code says they must have a certain rise over run, the code enforcement officer misses it, someone misjudges the stairs and falls down them. Should the tax payers of the town, presumably where the plaintiff also pays taxes be liable? Should the inspector be personally liable for a mistake done in the course of his regular duties? Part of the logic is that municipalities might just not do inspections to avoid the potential liability therefore making everyone less safe.

I know...it is kinda fucked but...there is a sort of logic to it.

Here we have a number of people who if I am understanding the situation correctly may have a class action suit against the builder not necessarily for not providing water but for lying on the disclosures.

Now if it is found that the Inspector was doing something shady like helping the builder commit fraud then the inspector would be personally liable for something there as committing fraud is not a part of his regular duties. Basically if they were negligent then oh well but if it was intended then he is in trouble.

The thing here is that I find it crazy that they did inspections on all of these houses without turning on the water once or that if the inspector and builder were committing some sort of large scale fraud that they thought they could get away with it.

Gets popcorn

This is gonna be interesting.

Under which statute is the select board *required* to pass that particular ordinance, or liable for your builder's malfeasance? Where in the town charter do you find mention of making sure wells are functional?

Never a guarantee to hit water. I'm sure that skillings has 100 stipulations in the contract.

​

why they stop? drill rig couldn't go deeper( not all rigs are created equal), They reached contracted depth, informed contractee and they decline further drilling for additional costs, They found a pocket of water that dried up quickly

>The thing here is that I find it crazy that they did inspections on all of these houses without turning on the water once

This was like the first thing I did when we went to the open house for the house we ended up buying (in the neighboring town).

I have a stupid question. Did you not turn the faucet on when you went to tour the house?

Wow. That really sucks. Is your TC nonresponsive to other town issues? I mean, making a deal with Pennichuck wouldn't cost the town a penny. It'd be on you folks or, better yet, your builder, for selling you a pig in a poke.

Your Public works might have a notional plan for the development of a town water distribution system. If you're really lucky, you might be able to get them to kick it off.

That is not a stupid question at all, lol. I was wondering the same thing myself tbh.

Better Call Saul homie.

That's extremely petty of the builder considering RO filtration isn't particularly expensive. Putting people's health at risk to save a buck like that should be enough to put people prison. Money and quite frankly- the law, insulates rich people from consequences far too well. The French revolution happened for a reason...

Yes we ran the water and had an inspection and looked at all of the wells documentation. All the paperwork said it was fine. It was not fine and the well does not produce water.

Go back to California

Oh yea there's a water issue their to so don't waste water on your 3x3 lawn

Live free an die of dehydration

Not enough information. For example, I don't know how deep your well is. I've been in your situation (I think) and everything worked out.

It could be that your well is ok (in that you can learn to live with it). I expect that you may have been trying to use more water than your well can provide. A deep well is like a water tank. You have a certain number of gallons in there. If you rapidly use a lot, then you have to wait for it to refill. It could take half a day, for example. If you have been doing things that require a lot of water, then maybe that's it. The house might be livable if you learn how to conserve water.

But, if that is the case then that should have showed up in the water test. They test how much water is going into the well. In order to pass, you need to have a certain number of gallons per minute.

Like I said- not enough info. But I expect that you have been using more gallons per minute than your well provides. I also suspect the test was correct. You have to learn to live with that, or have a deeper well drilled.

The cost of drilling sounds high. (Granted I'm a cheap, old man so all prices sound high). I had a well drilled several years ago, and one over a decade ago. So prices would be more now, but your quote seems way high.

Well not functioning? Is that actually the case here? What was the gallons per minute listed in the water test? Has the homeowner been using a lot more water than that?

-because having your own well =/= infinite supply of water on tap.

How did you pass the water test if you have no water? Not meant to be sarcastic, but the inspector will run the water for so many minutes and record the gallons filled in that time to determine well capacity. You should be present during the inspection process too and most inspectors request that you be there.

Unfortunately RO is extremely wasteful. For each gallon of clean water about 3 or 4 gallons is wasted.

can confirm - good response and good advice

I have to ask: Was the inspector “recommended” by your agent (who probably worked for your builder)?

One of the things people do is bring in a truck and fill the well with water. A drilled well can commonly hold a couple hundred gallons.

Here is my 2 cents. We bought a home in the lakes region sold by owner 1.5 years ago (no realtor involved). We did have an inspection however it took place in December. Everything looked fine. we moved in March and by April our well went dry but would replenish. We were the 3rd owners of the home. Not wanting to contact the prior owners I called the 1st owners and he told me the well often went dry but would replenish with time. Our well guy had difficulty finding the well, This opened a whole can of worms as it was located on the lot next door about 50 feet or so in front of a home being built and the cover was covered with rocks. I had to have the land surveyed to see if the well was on my land or my neighbors and it was determined to be on my neighbors.

We then contacted the sellers and asked them to go in half on a new well as they sold us a home with technically no well. They took a fit over the phone giving us all kind of excuses and the wife send over a bunch of documents. One of the documents proved to be very useful. It was a document when they purchased the home showing the knew there were water issues, yet when they filled out the same paperwork, they claimed no issues with water quantity. I forwarded this to the title insurance company claiming that I was deceived during the sale, and we settled on an amount. It didn't cover the entire cost of the putting in a new well but it was better than nothing.

If you have title insurance, it is a battle, but try go after them. They do not like to pay out. Be prepared to not let up. I just wonder if the title insurance company tried to recoup their money from the sellers. Karma. Good luck. I feel for you.

If you read the post they said they "literally have no water".

I am taking that as meaning just what they said.

if you run a well dry then you "literally have no water" until the well refills from ground water seeping into it. It's how wells work.

I believe the person also said they opened a tap before buying the house and had water at the sink (or whatever). So that means it's not that the well is bone dry all of the time.

-------------------------------

I don't know the answers to my own questions (above). I suspect that they were given the results of a well test and that the gallons per minute is in actuality what the results specify. I am NOT a lawyer. So I don't know how that would affect a law suit. I'm guessing it would not help.

Please don't be condescending. I am well aware of how wells work.

They said they ran them at the inspection but there could be a few things going on here like the builder used a tanker to dump a few hundred gallons down the well or the water table in the area is not suitable at that depth to support the number of houses they built in the development.

I highly doubt that the builder used a tanker to dump water in the well. I would think that would be fraud rising to the level of a crime. But maybe I'm naive. Maybe that sort of thing does happen.

Yeah the water table might not be suitable. But "suitable" is subjective. Early settlers to the area would likely be fine with that amount of water (gallons per minute). A person with a well can't expect to use infinite amounts of water. You have to learn to live with what you have. If you dig another well, or improve the one you have etc there will still be limits. These are the realities.

I don't know (but suspect) that the buyer was given a reasonably accurate water test listing the gallons per minute from the well. If not, and if the test was faked, (and as you said tanker water dumped into the well to deceive etc) then I would want people to go to jail. Such things should not be allowed under penalty of law. But you would know more about that than me. -as far as what realistically could happen in a case like that.

---------------------------

General contractors, etc need licenses. If there was fraud like we're talking about here then those should be taken away. IMHO

When/if you do get water, have it checked for Arsenic. Very common in the Merrimack Valley.

First off, you don't need a license in NH to be a contractor.

Second, it seems like multiple people in the development are running into the same issue which points to it being a bigger issue than "these folks use too much water".

These people came here asking for some help and you see oddly intent on blaming them.

you seem like a really pleasent person.

I just read through some of the recent Select board minutes for Brookline....WOW, unfortunately the type of childish behavior that many of these board members exhibit is fairly common in small town NH politics. Select boards wield far too much power for elected officials. There are no qualifications to be a select board member and often in small towns people run unopposed, same with state representatives. I used to work in a town on the coast right on the border, everyone knows it, select board members were always getting involved where they don't belong and creating major issues and liabilities for the town. I wouldn't expect the knuckleheads running your town to be any different. If you want to message me I can help you look up your well drilling records filed with the state, I would also do as I mentioned and inquire about your occupancy permit. But as everyone else has said you really need a lawyer and don't waste your time dealing with the Town you will likely get nowhere because they know very little about hydrology and actual laws. Small towns sub out all engineering, legal, and usually only have a part time building inspector that they share with other towns.

The real rub here is that the town board and the builders are probably in bed with one another... no I mean literally not figuratively. The builders family members are probably board members.. good ñuck...

Why are the least bright people always the biggest assholes?

Sounds like the builder and city council are a bunch of cousin fuckers.. imho..

I worked for the company that built and operated Stoney Ledge in the '90s. Skillings drilled and 'fracked three wells totaling over 4000' in depth and there was insufficient water to operate the breakfast joint and sandwich shop. The next door neighbor (think he was the chief of police at the time) had like 20GPM recovery rate, only a couple hundred feet away.

What did the well inspection say? Pretty sure there are laws around faulty inspections that you could then talk to an attorney about?

A friend of ours well dried out, it is a very expensive process, sorry you're going through this.

*there too

Title Insurance is not talked about enough. This is exactly the situation where you’ll be thankful you have it.

I've said multiple times that I don't know what is going on here.

Nope not blaming anyone.

I am suggesting someone check out the situation before jumping to conclusions. Looking at the claimed gallons per minute in that well test might be a start.

Also, personally, I wouldn't accuse contractors of fraud, crimes, and various felonies sans evidence. But that's just me.

But yes, you're right. Seems to be a whole development. The more info that comes out in the comments, the more it seems to me there is a problem with the house itself. Now the person has said his well is 1000 feet deep. If I had known that from the beginning, my comments here would have been different. Didn't I say "not enough info" from the first? Oh yeah. I did.

*crickets*

>First off, you don't need a license in NH to be a contractor.

Half true. You are a lawyer. You should know these things.

That is what you claimed, right?

Lol. Ok...are we still doing a thing?

No license needed to be a contractor in NH, that is correct.

Literally anyone can claim to be a builder. Not sure what you mean by half true.

And yes, I have a law degree.

This may be an extremely stupid question, but have you verified that your well pump breaker is on?

Do you happen to remember the name of the book? That sounds like an interesting read.

When I get home I will call my library to look up my checked out books

That would be amazing. Thank you!

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As someone who has lived with a low yield well that is getting lower every time someone puts a house in nearby, I doubt the well was always empty. It can be that as people moved in nearby and started using up the water, they lowered the water table enough so some of the wells started running dry. They may have drilled a well with a good flow rate to a water source that is now empty. The options are shitty. The best option might be to drill a very deep well. If the cost to put in a good well gets high enough, setting up a small water system might be a better option.

Oh so no licenses needed for any of the building trades, and no licenses or state permissions of any kind to run a business? Good to know.

The library told me that our record is wiped clean when materials are returned. I was unable to find it in the online catalog and on Amazon. However, there appears to be many good titles that offer a cross-section of water problems across the US.

This post caught my attention because there were a few examples in NH that I was surprised to hear about. Essentially, really nice houses with no water underground.

A while back I read a book called The Ripple Effect (2011). It is a non-fiction book that reads like a fictional thriller that one would hope is fiction.

It's good to read the books that cover a variety of locations in the US for a thorough understanding. Knowing what happened in Flint, MI is good information. To think that the pipes themselves can give off toxins is a bit scary.

You need licenses for plumbing and electric but carpenters/contractors are no license required. What a lot of guys do is take on jobs and then sub out the technical stuff to licensed and insured plumbers and electricians.

If you run a business as a sole proprietorship then you don't need an EIN or to register with the secretary of state unless you want to set up an LLC.

To be clear, this is not any sort of legal advice and you should always do your own research or hire an attorney if you have actual questions. Don't just take the word of random people on the Internet.

I'm not. Trust me on that one.

That's part of it. Keep going.

My point was that if a claimed business is a scam that the state can shut it down. I wasn't buying your conspiracy theory. But if what you said were true, then the business should be shut down IMO.

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This

I was wondering if you had read The Water Knife, which I've been meaning to read.

Highly likely Brookline is very corrupt

Just read the description now. Yikes, I don't know if I could stomach that book because it's too close to reality!

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Sounds like your an idiot to buy a home without water. What next are u going to buy a car and complain it does not have an engine? Buyer beware you idiot you should have bought a better house you cheap fucker prob financed the whole thing.

What makes you say they are corrupt?

Farwell family owns and runs that town.

Not anymore! They are being pushed out finally! But since they have ran the town for years, they have left the town with 0 money and failing departments from within.

Did you all waive inspection? Serious question no offense meant. If this is the experience of you and your neighbors then the home should have a warranty through the builder for a time after closing. Class action lawsuit would be a thing to look into, because it sounds like the builder skimped out and I don’t see how a house with no water could be closed upon during occupancy inspections.

I didn't know that. That's awesome to hear. What happened that pushed them out?