Submitted by needsab0uttreefiddy t3_zmckx4 in newhampshire
Serious question. I'm looking online and do many homes are very outdated in the inside. Wood paneling, old carpet etc. Is it because the population is simply older? Or is it a lack of materials or supply chain issues?
Edit: Not sure why I'm being downvoted so much for trying to understand what challenges you all face in your state. Ya'll are hostile, man. Not gonna lie I kind of like it though.
If it keeps the weather out, it's fine.
Several reasons.
New construction - the kind that follows cookiecutter trends - is pretty rare here. Most of your (comparatively) built up areas have been built up for awhile, so new builds buying the latest builder-grade on trend junk are rare.
There's a general attitude of 'if it ain't broke' around here that holds. As one of my theater friends explained the New Hampshire approach to living - 'use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without'. People here don't tend to toss stuff that's still functional. Hell, my inlaws still have have some 40 year old appliances that aren't dead, and they're not buying.
New Hampshire folk, in general, also have a decided lack of fucks to give about trends. We don't particularly care if it's on trend - we care if we like it. We're not tearing out our kitchen counters because some asshole in LA decided that white quartz was hot this year. We like what we like, and that's an individual thing.
If nothing else, think of a house here as being a blank canvas to project yourself onto. If you want to do what some asshole in LA says you should, go for it. We just don't.
Guessing you are looking north
My house is dated because I’m poor
Hey let's remodel the kitchen I think we can afford to... What the property tax bill came in today? And the water bill? Well we could... What do you mean heating oil is has doubled in price ? Maybe if... Why doesn't your car pass inspection we just put new snow tires on it? Frame rusted in half from road salt? What is for dinner tonight honey? Rot gut vodka was on sale at the state liquor store and we can have peanut butter sandwiches again.
Keep in mind a lot of the homes around here are old. Mine is almost 130. None of the dimensions match modern dimensions. You can't just swap out a door. You either have to have it custom made, make your own, or rebuild the doorway. The walls and ceilings are plaster not plasterboard. Well, the original layer is plaster. Plaster is messy to deal with. Easier to DIY if you're working alone (no lifting heavy boards), but still messy and more time consuming (3-4 coats vs 1-2). There might be one to three more wall/ceiling/flooring layers on top of that. Are you going to add a 4th or redo it all properly? Everything will have lead paint on it, even my bedroom floors have it (I added another flooring layer). Dealing with that properly takes $$$$ if you hire someone or just $$ plus a lot more time to DIY it. Oh, and the certified lead test swabs you're supposed to use have been out of stock since the pandemic. Sure lots of people sell them online, but you order from them and they just cancel your order. Had that happen 4 times.
Also with homes that old, there's a bunch of people who want to preserve the look. My stair banisters are really fancy. Things like that disappear when you remodel.
Old carpet? Who the fuck cares (especially when I don't have enough outlets and can't find a reliable contractor. Now I've got to find a good carpet guy too? Why didn't my college have a Handyman degree). I don't spend any time with my face buried in the carpet (okay, I'll admit to doing a few pushups now and again). If it still works then it still works. Plus I don't trust newer things as much. They all seem to wear out faster. Even older building material was more durable than modern building material. If I replace it now then I'll have to replace it again within 10 years. Why not put it off a longer.
Finally, I can't keep up with renovations when there's so many questions to answer on Reddit. They just keep coming in faster than I can reply.
Lots of old people in NH that own most of the homes unfortunately
New Englanders are thrifty. If it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.
> don't spend any time with my face buried in the carpet
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Construction is very time-consuming and very expensive. Time and money are limited resources.
It is nice to be able to call a contractor and get work done but most people don't have the spare cash for $10K to $100K remodels. And, even if you do have the money, you may choose not to spend it on a remodel. You have to spend money for necessities like heat, roof, painting, plumbing, electrical, windows, driveway that require regular (though not frequent) maintenance. You have to spend time and money on landscaping, snow removal, maybe trash pickup. If you want to see this at a higher level, look at Newton, Waltham, Lexington and other Boston suburbs. There are a lot of old homes coming up for sale because elderly folks are passing homes on to their children. A lot of these turn into teardowns because the homes were built 100 years ago and it is just very hard to remodel into something that modern buyers demand.
1/2 of Americans have zero savings and live paycheck to paycheck. It’s not a NH issue
This is a very under-rated comment. I priced out finishing the attic and while I could afford the remodel no problems, when I ran the associated costs it wasn’t worth it anymore
Here's a bigger question. Why do so many people searching for homes expect something to be absolutely perfect and in line with their own personal tastes? And why do they feel compelled to whine about it to strangers on the internet about it?
Lack of funds to fix or high taxes are lazy excuses. Taxes are not higher in NH than anywhere else, in fact they are lower in many cases when you take in total taxes. Your home is your biggest asset and any improvement is an investment that not only improves your current life but increases the value of your property. Lack of motivation or education is more likely the reason. The big truck payment along with the increased gas use for someone that doesn't use a truck for work (about 25% of truck owners actually use them for work) eats up more income with no return on investment than a home remodeling project. VT, Maine and MA, and RI have higher overall tax burdens than NH.
Once you buy a home, you'll find that things are not as simple as they seem.
My uncle, a lifelong carpenter and contractor, had a saying when it came to old houses: "don't fuck with it."
Labor and materials both cost way more than you think, and rarely will a project ever complete without complications.
Personally, I like wood paneling, but let's say you wanted to get rid of it. You hire somebody to take down the wood paneling, and then discover the wall behind it is too damaged to salvage. It's plaster, of course, and the laths are all busted. Repairing the plaster is going to be expensive, and this project is already costing more than you expected, so you opt to cover the entire wall with drywall. This is going to require relocating the outlets, though, so now you need to hire an electrician. The electrician plugs in a tester, and despite having "grounded" outlets, the grounds aren't actually connected to anything. Yikes! Now he's asking if you know what "knob and tube" means...
Now you're staring at a destroyed wall, and the only way to have it fixed is to repair a list of other issues. This $3000 project is now a $13,000 project, and you're thinking that maybe you should have just left the panelling alone.
Replacing a door or window often means having one custom made. Replacing the shingles on your roof often requires removing several layers of old shingles and sometimes even replacing the wood of the roof itself. Nothing is simple like it is on a new home.
The reality is, if you live in an old house, any "home repair" budget is usually spent on structural integrity, safety, or quality of life, with nothing left over for cosmetics. When the foundation is crumbling, water is pooling in your light fixtures, and your furnace just died, you're really not paying attention to the color of the carpeting.
People in New Hampshire live in their homes for decades. My parents have been in the same house for 40 years, and they will very well be there for another 10-20 years. There is no way they will be spending 100k to renovate their house in their 80s. So by the time they pass, yeah. The home will be dated.
Because HGTV isn’t real life
Lack of funds is a lazy excuse? You’re out of touch with reality.
Seriously. Let me just not pay my credit card bill because I want a new tile floor. That’ll go over really well with the collectors, right?
Bruh, it's just a question to better understand. Not whining.
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I needed my retaining wall repaired—out of the six companies I called only two gave me a quote. The other four didn’t have time for me so even if people have the funds, the un-availability of labor in the state is real.
Tell me you don't know how to change a ceiling fan without telling me you don't know how to change a ceiling fan.
Don't fucking worry about it.
Everything can be budgeted. I'm far from rich but figure ways to keep my property up to date.
NH is so ridiculously expensive that people here live in their homes for DECADES. (And yeah, generally the homeowners are older) They’re probably still alright with the ceiling fan they picked out 40 years ago. Where are you from that you’re seeing tons of updated homes everywhere you look? We don’t have that kind of space for new construction and most people don’t have the income for major updates.
There are far more people struggling to be able to keep the lights on and keep their homes heated than folks like you. Many people can’t even afford to buy a home, let alone update it. Many people cannot even rent a home the way things are now.
You’re incredibly tone deaf.
First move would be to NOT use credit cards. If you can't afford it, don't buy it. Lock the cards up and use only for emergencies. I lived 15 years with only a debit card and cash. I only use credit cards now to get the points or cash back and pay them almost immediately after I make a charge, the same mentality as using cash or in other words I don't charge what I can't pay right now.
Tell me you're an out of state real estate investor without telling me you're an out of state real estate investor.
No, it's definitely the same in other parts of the country.
Everywhere in the eastern US megalopolis is expensive. Move to central Indiana. You can get a great house for $100k
Probably from Cali, too.
We noticed the same thing when looking at homes, but it’s not just NH, it’s much of New England and most of the northeast. There’s not a lot of new construction so the average age of homes here is higher. Older homes tend to be more dated. High CoL also reduces disposable income. NH actually has the youngest median housing stock in the northeast, although it’s still on the older end relative to the burgeoning west or south regions.
Yup. My 40 year old house is still running with the original electric stove in the kitchen. The timer and clock have been shot for years but it still makes food hot when I need it to. There's no need to replace it with some overengineered electronically controlled glass top which will tell me the temperature to within a tenth of a degree on three scales, call my mother in law when I make one of her favorite recipes better than she does, send my phone a ding when there's one minute left, and shatter if I put my 7qt cast iron Dutch oven down wrong.
By the same token the break even point on new thermally efficient oversized windows is likely beyond the point where I'll be living here. I'll stick with storms and screens and hold the inner windows up with paint sticks while I'm at it. In fifteen years my gas bill for heat, hot water, and clothes dryer hasn't been about $1K.
it’s beautiful. you don’t have to buy an old house though. it’s just one of the special things about the north east
Housing stock is old, renovating is expensive, good contractors are hard to find. Also in some rural areas of NH people don't have much income: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_communities_by_household_income
Personally I'd be happy with a log cabin that looked like it was from the 1800s. Hard to find with good internet though.
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While I wish property taxes were lower, you make many good points otherwise. Taking good care of your house is both fun and usually a great investment.
Oh yeah, that Grounding issue is fixed thanks for asking bro
Not that it should be perfect, but there’s a lot of junk out there going for half a million dollars. You’d think the seller might have at least done basic upkeep, but often they do the bare minimum.
True, and they’ll punish you more if they find out you improved the place.
probably because no one wants to live in central Indiana.
It's a fine place to live. There are just no good jobs.
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Did your wife's boyfriend show you how to do it
You couldn't pay me enough to live in that shit hole.
Right now, I'm in a mid-Atlantic state. But I've also lived in several states in the south (bible belt). Homes there are also pretty old, but I think there are different reasons why. Every place in the US is different and has unique challenges. For example, I know it gets cold af in NH. Hence, ensuring your property is properly winterized is probably a higher priority than granite countertops or that nice LED lighting under the cabinets.
No, your mom came over and helped give me the encouragement I needed to figure it out. She's a fantastic life coach.
Makes a lot of sense, tbh. Others have stated that since the homes are older, nothing is standardized, so it's harder to commit to renovations as well.
Grow up. If you dont like it then dont buy a house up here. You sound like a douche bag anyway based on your reactions to people’s responses here.
It’s a stupid fuckin question.
This guy literally has no idea what they’re talking about.
I think you're taking me a little too seriously.
My bad; I responded to the wrong comment and just realized it. Yeah, that's a legit reason.
> Hell, my inlaws still have have some 40 year old appliances that aren't dead, and they're not buying.
See for me this is one area I don't skimp in- I don't run out and buy frequently, but with the cost of energy what it is I'm side-eyeing my old boiler, my washer/dryer, etc and crunching numbers on how long it would have to last to break even on a replacement.
In winter I spend almost $1k/mo on propane. Now that the electricity rates have gotten insane, I spend $700/mo on electricity. You're damn right I'm eyeballing super efficient replacements for several older items in my home.
Good points. Old carpet is kinda gross, though, man. It's like a T-shirt you can never properly wash.
Any chance I get I always try to replace it with a cheap alternative like Vinyl Plank.
That sounds like a bad place to live if you need a job
Might as well insulate that wall while you are at. That said starting with the principal of “it’ll all need to get taken out” and knowing that makes knowing who you need to hire for the project and what you are signing up for way more affordable.
This is spot on. Still recall when I thought I needed a simple electrical repair in an older home- the guy came out of the room and told me the wiring was home made DIY and looked 'like a bowl of spaghetti' up in the ceiling. It was not a simple repair.
Updates cost money.
I think is a combination of factors.
I'm trapped; I moved here six months ago, and I don't feel like spending 600k is worth it when I'm buying something that belongs in a museum that's using fucking oil or stoves to heat my home.
Our house needed serious updating when we purchased it in 2009. It was only built in 84 but interior design has changed drastically since then. The previous owners were in their 60s which we are close to now. I think if I wanted to sell in a sellers market I wouldn’t bother spending on updating. The other factor is that New Englanders in general tend to be more practical in what they spend money on. Landscaping is big for Curb appeal though.
Do you have a source for your first & third points? Because from what I’ve seen it’s the opposite.
In general, elderly people don’t spend their money on home design. Has little to do with inflation and more to do with priorities.
It’s not just NH. First house I ever owned was in Massachusetts. Two family with coal burning furnaces that had been converted to gas. The furnaces and steam pipes were covered with asbestos. Bathrooms had claw foot tubs. 60 amp electrical service with fuses.
Eventually, I had to replace the furnaces and my contractor refused to do it unless I had the asbestos removed first. That was expensive. I sold that house long ago to a flip this house type who converted it to condos!
People are only selling because the market is so high. Why would they modernize/update before selling in this market?
And if the buyers are going to grab it up at whatever price you want, you’re not going to bother with intense renovation.
We've owned our 1954 house for 31 years and our 10 year plan was done in year 28. Just saved enough to renovate the original kitchen 3 years ago. New bathroom reno 8 years ago. Carpets were easy to remove, out with wallpaper, new paint all through in year one. Redone interior paint twice more, about every 10 years. Mades a huge difference. New windows one side of the house at time each 3 years apart. Buderus oil burner and new zones early on when the system was affordable. Now it looks wonderful and is weather tight. Nice mature landscape ad gardens too! Just keep plugging away to make it your own. Kids want to live here after we don't. Now worth 5 times what we paid. Be patient.
I get the sense that people from NH have lived in their houses for a long time and see no need to renovate, since they don’t plan on selling and are fine with the more dated designs. As others have pointed out a lot of these houses are on the market because of the housing price boom and wouldn’t be for sale otherwise so there’s no point in dumping money into renovations you’ll never see any real benefit from
This is the correct answer.
This. Ive owned multiple homes and it’s a pain to upgrade unless you simply have a lot of money. Not to mention the age of the houses and once you crack it open, code issues come into play.
I just bought a house previously owned by some pretty elderly people. They were married and decently well-off and remodeled over the course of time. The most recent remodel being like 5-6 years ago.
You would never ever believe how ... not good their taste was lol. The house was like a rolling remodel so everything was *newish* but just aesthetically dated. Heavy ugly curtains, fresh yet ugly wallpaper. The kitchen design is SOLIDLY done but just looks like it belongs in 1999. That'll get remodeled down the line but I guess my point is, some people LIKE the "dated"ish looks. It's odd. I can't explain it.
Yes! Exactly this. I'm seeing so much wallpaper. Who the hell uses wallpaper anymore?
And all the damn carpet... I have allergies, asthma, and love animals. I'm house hunting so I can have a dog. I'd rather not have carpet for all of the listed reasons.
There was a bunch of carpet in this house too that I had removed and replaced with LVP lol
Old people. It’s bonkers
Dude, I hate carpet so much. It traps EVERYTHING and looks like shit after a couple of years. It's like throwing money away IMO.
Lol depends where in NH you are talking about… what location are you looking at?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Why would I waste money on something that's perfectly functional?
Sure the kitchen has 1980s faux wood wainscoting. And yeah the linoleum flooring is a little dated. But it works. It's fine. It's homey. Its mine.
Why does it matter anyways?
The house was built in 1850, I'm lucky the last time it was updated was the 70s/80s.
Well you see houses used to be owned by local people who had to work in the local economy. Resources were limited and they had nothing to prove. Now that people flush with cash who work remotely are flooding into backwater towns, i’m sure the dated designs that offend your modern sensibilities will be fixed soon enough.
Well the house that I own with my husband is nowhere near a million dollar home. It is a starter home. It was a starter home when we bought it and it will always be a starter home unless somebody buys it, bulldozes it down, and builds a mcmansion. Now our house has Cherry cabinets (gasp!), carpeting, and walls that are painted a very neutral kind of off-white color. I am sure anybody who looks at it will say it's outdated. Yet, it is perfectly functional. They can kiss my ass. I do not want stark white cabinets nor do I want the walls painted some trendy color that's going to go out of style in 6 months. And there is no way I'm going to buy fancy furniture and a hundred different throw pillows to put on top of it just to satisfy somebody's fashion sense. If we ever sell it it's probably going to be sold as is.
We've lived here for close to 30 years, and prioritized comfort over keeping things fresh. I'd choose this house the way it is - over the new homes nearby, but even the newer part of the house is over 20 years old, and I'm sure that you'd consider it to be dated - at best.
But the house does have some nice features, and we're hoping to find someone who's okay with things as they are - and can imagine what they might do in the future to make it work better for them.
Indeed. We just bought one built in 1971 which the owner agreed out of. Had a lot of work to do on it to update, but we got a decent price because of it.
We have wallpaper in the living room from the prior owner, but we kept it because it was very classy and muted ivory in colour.
To each their own!
Why you mad though?
My family and I live in a home that my wife inherited from her grandfather. We did extensive renovations before we moved in. It had an alley kitchen with a window cutout in the wall to pass dishes through to the dining room.
The decor was, well, as you describe.
I know that he was on the older side of what a typical resident of NH might have looked like, but that doesn't change that he was someone who lived through the Depression and was a hoarder because of the mentality of resourcefulness.
We're probably seeing waves of homes like these now that their original occupants are getting older. The younger people who have built newer-ish homes haven't needed to move out of them yet, so the market is currently filled with homes from that era, which were built originally by people who did whatever they needed to do to survive and save money.
And don't mind the downvotes. Some of us are foolishly proud of having lived here our whole lives and are threatened by anything that doesn't fit the narrative that things may not be perfect here.
Interesting perspective, thank you!
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It's weirdly making a comeback, albeit in a different way which I quite like.
Lmfao it’s New Hampshire
No doubt. But that doesnt answer OP’s question about why people havent updated their homes in 40 years. The labor shortage is a recent phenomenon impacting all industries.
2007 - 2017 would have been a great time to update your house or in your case, fix your retaining wall.
Not poor people, dear. That's why you dont see it. It costs money. And house flippers and the HGTV types prefer the grey painted wallboard and cheap grey vinyl floors so they can buy more throw pillows and HOME SWEET HOME signs for the kitchen.
Did this age as well as your deck repair and smoke alarm woes?
Why you mad though? What did carpet ever do to you? Rug burns? 🤨
What a silly thing to spend money on because it doesn't look good.
Both issues are resolved, thanks!
Because we locals can’t afford places to live due (in part) to the scenario described.
You’re right this a recent phenomenon. It will explain why homes 40 years from now may not be updated ha
Because the people who disdain our state seem determined to move here and turn it into wherever they came from
I don't disdain your state. Housing that is considered "dated" isn't necessarily a bad thing; it just is what it is.
RelationshipJust9556 t1_j0adp73 wrote
Lack of disposible funds to "update" to the newer house trends. If its not baroque don't fix it.