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Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_j52udh6 wrote

This was on a post about a week or so ago.

Children should not have transition medication, surgery until they are adults if they still want it. Doing anything to minors is a form of abuse as they are incapable of processing any of this as well as make any decisions.

What I want to know is why the big push to get children to take such drastic measures?


CannaQueen73 t1_j549zl6 wrote

Circumcision should be stopped immediately then. Hypocrites.


PM_Georgia_Okeefe t1_j5548j5 wrote

There have been some bills that move to limit circumcision. I know one bill would not allow for Medicaid to cover it unless medically necessary.


ctr2sprt t1_j55h9p3 wrote

I love when this gets brought up like it's some sort of gotcha.

Yes, I agree. I don't think we should even allow a religious exemption.

ETA: Someone else mentioned not allowing Medicaid to cover it, which seems like a fantastic idea. Even if we did allow circumcision with a religious exemption, there's absolutely no reason that anybody else should ever have to pay for it.


CannaQueen73 t1_j55hod8 wrote

No gotcha. The same people saying children are being forced into transitioning are literally forcing a decision on an infant. Blatant hypocrisy.


BALLS_SMOOTH_AS_EGGS t1_j56mti0 wrote

Top story tonight: Are circumcisions changing the gender of our kids? More at 11


1carus_x t1_j5eipw2 wrote

Actually there's many examples of botched circumcisions where they force the boy to be a girl bc docs fucked up. It's still an unconsented to genital surgery on infants that permanently alters sensitivity


CannaQueen73 t1_j56nbpp wrote

Then no one can use the “making decisions for little kids” excuse. There’s no reason for it anyway.


smartest_kobold t1_j54moum wrote

Puberty creates a number dramatic bodily changes. Puberty blockers prevent a developing young person from going through a body changing in ways they do not want, may have to pay to reverse as an adult, and going through a second set of gender affirming changes. With all the trauma of those experiences.

Allowing children who are questioning their gender to delay that decision a few years with relatively safe medication is the better choice.


Mercantilean t1_j57kbku wrote

>Allowing children who are questioning their gender to delay that decision a few years with relatively safe medication is the better choice.

Yes, that would be a better choice if it was a real choice, but it's not. Delaying pubertal timing causes all kinds of musculoskeletal and cardiovascular issues.


Mrpgal14 t1_j57qc0m wrote

The major pediatric association in the country disagrees with you


Mercantilean t1_j57qx5i wrote

They disagree about the effects of delayed puberty? They disagree with settled science?


Mrpgal14 t1_j57rhf1 wrote

They disagree that it’s not a choice, they recommend puberty blockers for trans children, the settled science is that it’s an effective form of treatment.


youarelookingatthis t1_j55fa9f wrote

New Hampshire: live free or die, unless you're trans, then you need to suffer.

Just making sure I got your message right.


vexingsilence t1_j55qo9x wrote

Children aren't generally afforded the same rights as adults. They don't yet possess the mental faculties to make adult decisions.


youarelookingatthis t1_j55vjuv wrote

So you want children to suffer for years?


vexingsilence t1_j55wtox wrote

Versus being bullied or pressured into something they don't want and aren't yet able to recognize as such? That's why we call them children. They're not adults.


youarelookingatthis t1_j55x87w wrote

Evidence. Show me evidence cisgender children are being bullied into transitioning otherwise you're just wasting both our times.


youarelookingatthis t1_j55zk5b wrote

SEGM is a known anti transgender hate group, as is Genspect:


"As an organization committed to the generation and application of clinical science for the public good, the Coalition for the Advancement and Application of Psychological Science (CAAPS) supports eliminating the use of Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) and similar concepts for clinical and diagnostic application given the lack of rigorous empirical support for its existence.

There are no sound empirical studies of ROGD and it has not been subjected to rigorous peer-review processes that are standard for clinical science. Further, there is no evidence that ROGD aligns with the lived experiences of transgender children and adolescents.

Despite the lack of evidence for ROGD and its significant potential for creating harm, it has garnered increased attention in the general public and is being misused within and beyond the field of psychology. For example, recent medical articles have started including ROGD in their overview of adolescents with gender incongruence, and there has been an increase in books, videos, podcasts, and training directed to parents and clinicians offering strategies for diagnosing and treating ROGD. The proliferation of misinformation regarding ROGD is also infiltrating policy decisions. Currently, there are over 100 bills under consideration in legislative bodies across the country that seek to limit the rights of transgender adolescents, many of which are predicated on the unsupported claims advanced by ROGD. Thus, even though ROGD is not a diagnostic classification or subtype in either the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) or the International Classification of Diseases (ICD), nor is it under consideration for inclusion in future editions, it is critical to address the misinformation regarding ROGD now."


All of your so called evidence is easy to disprove and makes it obvious that you're cloaking your transphobia and hate in a made up concern over the mental faculties of children.


vexingsilence t1_j5614yg wrote

I trust the sources I posted a lot more than I trust Vice. Vice is trash, has been for a long time. They're an opinion site, nothing more, and their opinions always skew one way.

Wanting to protect children is not hate or any type of phobia. Once they're adults, once their minds are developed enough to be able to consent and be able to recognize peer pressure and the impact of constant exposure to social media, they're free to do what they want.


youarelookingatthis t1_j561vf8 wrote

Right. Because the NY Post is a bastion of journalistic integrity.

Wanting to stop transgender children from receiving the treatment they need is transphobia. It's really as simple as that.


vexingsilence t1_j562czd wrote

Wanting to pressure children down a path they're not responsible enough to be able to consent to is child abuse, simple as that.


youarelookingatthis t1_j562s2o wrote

Look, it's clear you don't want to listen to the science here and testimony from people who actually know what they're talking about, so we're done here.


vexingsilence t1_j563e66 wrote

I just posted some actual testimony. If you think children are old enough to consent to this type of thing, makes me wonder what else you want them to be able to consent to.


[deleted] t1_j53fv5m wrote



the_messengers t1_j541us0 wrote

The 'science'? 🤣 You mean the cultural, educational, media, pop culture invoked, adolescent, pressure, to chop off their dicks and tits, conforming to some insane concept a man can be a woman, and a woman can be a man.....get the fuck outta here with crushing mental health issues being projected unto our most vulnerable.


asuds t1_j5eo259 wrote

What is XXY? Love to hear your non-insane take…


WapsuSisilija t1_j52zjlz wrote

That you would prohibit puberty blockers shows you need to educate yourself on this.


mod-corruption t1_j53dhug wrote

The fact that you would allow puberty blockers for people who society hasn’t deemed old enough to smoke or drink shows that you need to educate yourself on the subject. There are no long-term studies on the risk/reward of puberty blockers. The idea that puberty can be paused and them resumed as normal is so laughably anti-science on its face. Maybe it’s time to accept that the people you disagree with actually have the wellbeing of children in mind and aren’t just being “transphobic”


1carus_x t1_j5646xf wrote

You realize these have been used for years prior to them being used for trans kids right? They are literally prescribed to those who expierence puberty too early, and once it's safe and of age to have puberty, they go off it it and resume their puberty. Years dude. Longer than I've been alive even, and no one minded then


Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_j531a98 wrote

Children do not need puberty blocker for something that they do not even understand. It is highly reckless and abusive to prevent a child from developing as their body dictates. Gender dysphoria is a serious issue that does not mean they need to act on when they are children.

Those who would recommend a child to go through any procedure before they are adult do not have the child's welfare as their primary concern.

Again, why are people pushing for this?


Azr431 t1_j539kc1 wrote

When you get your Ph.D in child development or become a pediatrician, let’s talk


[deleted] t1_j534adj wrote

Please cite your sources for this. You're using a lot of semi-lingo without anything but assumptions backing it up. I'm also afraid you'll find that the vast majority of the medical and scientific community is against you on this issue.


Number2_IsMy_Number1 t1_j535tc1 wrote

“Teenagers and young adults have the highest rates of suicide compared to other ages,” Dr. Fleisher says. “The things that make them vulnerable are where they stand socially and where they stand developmentally.”

Developmentally, their judgment and decision-making abilities are still coming online, he says. The prefrontal cortex — the brain’s executive control center — doesn’t fully develop until one’s mid-20s."


CannaQueen73 t1_j553cfz wrote

You need to educate yourself before you keep speaking. Your opinions are just that.


ExeCUTEive t1_j537qrj wrote

Just curious why you think you know more than the folks who have dedicated their lives to this field? Educate yourself:


[deleted] t1_j53c018 wrote



zetterbeauty t1_j53r83k wrote

Puberty blockers and hormone treatment aren’t permanent. If a patient chooses to de-transition or decide they no longer wish to transition, the effects are reversible.


[deleted] t1_j53es1t wrote



[deleted] t1_j54hv97 wrote



asuds t1_j5eo80f wrote

Who lives with the consequences if they kill themselves? Can you not see this as the better of the two outcomes?


[deleted] t1_j5feo35 wrote



asuds t1_j5fvk4x wrote

Except that there is evidence that treatment helps reduce negative outcomes, so….


[deleted] t1_j5jw37j wrote



asuds t1_j5ld8ay wrote


Yet, gender-affirming care is associated with reduced prevalence of suicide thoughts and attempts for those who receive the care they need.[1]

A recent study found that transgender adults who received pubertal suppression hormone therapy as adolescents were less likely to experience suicide ideation in their lifetime.[2]

Respondents to the 2015 USTS who have had the gender affirming hormone therapy or surgical care they need had lower prevalence of past-year suicide attempts compared to those who had not received the care they needed (5.1% vs. 8.5%); this difference persists even after controlling for race, age, sex assigned at birth, binary/nonbinary gender identity, and education.[3]

[1] What We Know Project. (2018). What Does the Scholarly Research Say about the Effect of Gender Transition on Transgender Well- Being? Ithaca, NY: Cornell University.

[2] 8 Turban, J. L., King, D., Carswell, J. M., & Keuroghlian, A. S. (2020). Pubertal suppression for transgender youth and risk of suicidal ideation. Pediatrics, 145(2), 68-76.

[3] 9 Herman, J. L., et al., 2019; Herman, J.L., Conron, K.J., Reisner, R., & Haas, A. (2017, November 9). Effect of gender transition-related health care utilization on suicidal thoughts and behaviors: Findings from the 2015 U.S. Transgender Survey. Paper presented by J.L. Herman at the Annual Meeting of the American Public Health Association, Atlanta,


Wiked_Pissah t1_j53wxfa wrote

Do you realize that most of those suicides happen because those bigot parents refuse to acknowledge that their child hates their body? They literally won't live long enough to get to "the age" you deem suitable for them to decide for themselves. Ask any LGBTQ adult when they felt they were Gay/Bi/Trans etc and almost all will say before they were adults. So by your logic, let's just let them feel tortured by bullies at school and hope they don't actually kill themselves as a result. Doesn't look like that has been working so well so far.


[deleted] t1_j54fze0 wrote



Educational-Eye4657 t1_j54u2p0 wrote

>I’m pretty sure most of us hated our bodies, felt tortured

And I'm pretty sure you've never experienced the level of bullying and hate that LGBTQ people face on a day-to-day basis. If you're for children having the right to live happily, then I also feel you must acknowledge that trans and gender-nonconforming adolescents have the highest rates of suicide and depression among any demographic. The decision on taking any potential treatment should be made by them in consultation with a qualified healthcare provider, not some random person on the internet who doesn't know their individual situation. In today's world, it is too easy for us to forget that individual liberty exists and needs to be protected. We cannot let legislation regulate every aspect of an individual's life because none of us are carbon copies of each other.


vexingsilence t1_j55rln7 wrote

>If you're for children having the right to live happily, then I also feel you must acknowledge that trans and gender-nonconforming adolescents have the highest rates of suicide and depression among any demographic.

Yes, they're mentally ill. They need treatment for their mental illness. Altering their body to support their disturbed thoughts while their brain is still developing isn't a good approach, you don't need a PhD to realize that.


>In today's world, it is too easy for us to forget that individual liberty exists and needs to be protected.

As adults. Until then, the health and safety of children must be protected.


Educational-Eye4657 t1_j55t517 wrote

No, they are not mentally ill, and science has confirmed that it is not an 'illness' issue but more of a social stigmatization of a very real and natural condition. Frankly, it's none of your business if you do not understand them or comprehend their condition and it's as simple as that. Some additional reading for you:


vexingsilence t1_j55ufpl wrote

It's absolutely my business when it's in the public schools and affects people within my community. Child abusers would say the same thing, none of anyone else's business, right?

It's gender dysphoria, it's absolutely a mental illness.


Wiked_Pissah t1_j55ymp6 wrote

Spoken like a complete ignorant. Ask any gay person if they think being gay is a mental illness. I hope you get punched in the face for the question. Dysphoria happens more from someone not being supported to be themselves and think through their feelings, hence why the suicide rate is so high. I would hope a parent would live their child enough to be able to have an open, loving, and most importantly, non-judgmental conversation with their child if they were having these feelings. Not to automatically label them as mentally ill. This kind of naivety is exactly why mental health in this country is so bad. Just because someone has feelings or thinks different than you doesn't make them mentally ill. It just makes you an asshole.


vexingsilence t1_j560hsy wrote

>Ask any gay person if they think being gay is a mental illness.

Doctors used to define it that way, before changing not based on anything tangible, but due to pressure from the public.


> I hope you get punched in the face for the question.

Condoning violence towards people with opinions that you don't like. Nice.


>Not to automatically label them as mentally ill.

You're basically stigmatizing mental illness.


Wiked_Pissah t1_j562zrk wrote

I wouldn't expect you to understand. You have demonstrated your ignorance on the subject exceptionally well. But as someone who actually knows people that have been abused, bullied and looked down on by people like you, I would stand by them a 1000x over. As for the violence part, I have stepped in and stopped plenty of fights that were not started by the person I was defending. But rather by the hateful bigot that felt the need to push their views on other people.


vexingsilence t1_j563vdt wrote

>But as someone who actually knows people that have been abused, bullied and looked down on by people like you, I would stand by them a 1000x over.

That's a strange stance considering that you're proposing abuse to vulnerable people that aren't able to consent.


>But rather by the hateful bigot that felt the need to push their views on other people.

That's pretty much what I'm against. People who would force children into things they're not ready for.


Wiked_Pissah t1_j56n9xr wrote

And this is where your ignorance shines so brightly. If you actually knew anyone you claim to be protecting you would have an idea of just how backward your thinking is. No parent has ever said "Gee, I really wish I had a son I stead of a girl. I think I am going to make them suffer through a lifetime of mental trauma and force them to become a girl" This never happens. The child starts to question their identity. I loving and responsible parent listens to them and talks with the child about why they think that. Maybe even finding others that have gone through the same thing so they can talk it out together. No one is proposing abuse. Quite the opposite in fact if you actually read what I am saying and think with an open mind.


Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j55o9xf wrote

When I was a kid, i wanted to be a pilot, then i wanted to be a doctor, then i wanted to be a woodworker, then I started fixing cars. Now I'm back in school after wasting 4 years of my life in a shitty industry. Now I wish my parents forced me to go to school to become a pilot like I always wanted. Kids dont know what they want and neither do parents. You understand neither.

You can enter the military at 18 yet, you cant smoke or drink until 21 for a reason. Kids dont know what they're putting in their body but the military will raise them to be excellent soldiers and providers. Having worked in a shitty industry, I was still able to go back to school, being in the military has many benefits.

Chopping ur dick off or taking hormone pills at a young age is irreversible.


l337quaker t1_j59wthj wrote

You can't smoke or drink until 21 because the US has a bunch puritanical old fucks running things. Go pretty much anywhere outside the US and smoking/drinking age is 18.


Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j5afg9c wrote

Yes you're right, I was born in one of them. A high percentage of the population drinks and smokes there, weed is also illegal. Every country is run by a bunch of old fucks. Your point is?


Wiked_Pissah t1_j55zn3i wrote

Actually taking hormones is reversible. But intelligent people already know that every human has both estrogen and testosterone in their body. Yes you, the man with all kinds of life regrets. Even you have estrogen in your body. It's the predominance of one or the other that determines things like growing breasts or a penis. A man that takes estrogen therapy making it the predominant hormone in their body will grow breasts to a degree. Same way a woman taking testosterone will grow facial hair. And I don't know of a single medical professional in this country that would take to cutting off a child's punishment until they are a legal adult and can make the decision for themselves.


Yemu_Mizvaj t1_j57mdj1 wrote

"But intelligent people already know..." how anyone can tell they're speaking to an unintelligent person. If I'm an alcoholic from a young age, I lose brain cells early on in life. I also dont develop my brain in the same way nature adapted us to. Why would it be any different with hormone, mind and physique altering medications?

Hormonal changes and medications are know to change sex drives, desires and brain development. So this should be ok to do with kids because one day they decided being a man or woman was not their liking?

Why dont you give them meth since they realised it's easier to have dopamine than a happy life? Once they turn 18 sure, have all the meth and hormones u want, until then, you're risking a childs life based on a whim.


1carus_x t1_j564dfk wrote

You're right, infants should not be undergoing genital mutilations. Which is explcititly what this bill allows to occur.


asuds t1_j552exc wrote

Because among other things some children are born XXY or up to several other variations. Science yo!


1carus_x t1_j5eixo9 wrote

Funny how the "omg you're denying science" group is denying science regarding intersex babies


1carus_x t1_j563tii wrote

Why does it explcitity allows genital mutilations then? Doesn't seem to care much about the well being of children regarding sexual health when it explicitly allows abuse and mutilations to continue. Not touching the rest of that as you're clearly uneducated


Possible_Mud_4923 t1_j52yrj0 wrote

Well said


CocoTheElder t1_j532t6c wrote

I have to admit, i was against trans healthcare for minors, until I had to rush my own kid to er and found out how they felt about their body and sex at birth. That was 9 years ago. My kid is alive, has transitioned, and is now happy at age 25. I have totally changed my views. No one whose kid is not trans can truly understand how vital affirming Healthcare really is. Please, all of you, stay in your lane.


rudyattitudedee t1_j53pa94 wrote

I’m all for everybody being happy. I wanted real tattoos at 9 and I’m glad my parents didn’t allow it. Power rangers tats are probably out of style these days. If it makes the kid happy and they don’t regret it, good.


Beer_Pants t1_j54ky3n wrote

If you're still comparing healthcare supported by every medical authority of record to wanting a tattoo, that's probably a good indicator that you aren't actually arguing from a place of logic


rudyattitudedee t1_j54va55 wrote

I think you aren’t willing to read to understand. I’m not comparing healthcare to tattoos. I’m comparing decisions kids make that they eventually will grow up and regret. It can’t be a spur of the moment decision or a phase. Like I said, if the kids grow into a happy adult that’s what matters. I have a trans woman in my family. She waited until she was a teen, not so much by choice, but slowly started to do it, went to college and got a great job, then one day she just said “my name is Nicole now” and now she looks and feels great as a fully transitioned woman.


Beer_Pants t1_j54vk4a wrote

Good for her, just quit browbeating other trans people with concern trolling without evidence considering desistance is around 2%


rudyattitudedee t1_j56bfu6 wrote

Good to know. I’m not trying to troll anyone. I genuinely don’t know statistics. I think I’ve been constructive in my discourse but I can’t say the same for you.


Reddit_in_her_voice t1_j5367s7 wrote

You're saying only people who are for childhood trans surgeries can give an opinion about it?


ExeCUTEive t1_j538gqq wrote

That's not what he said at all! Can you read?


[deleted] t1_j53bum0 wrote



rudyattitudedee t1_j53pfa8 wrote

I worry about hormone blockers leading to increased rates of cancer or other complications that messing with a natural chemical balance can have.


zetterbeauty t1_j53r2hh wrote

Then don’t take them. Leave the decision otherwise up to the doctors, patient, and/or parents involved.


rudyattitudedee t1_j53sol9 wrote

I’m not taking them. I don’t have a problem with anyone doing so either. I’m just wondering what eventual side effects may be. Politicians don’t seem too worried about unclean drinking water causing cancer or other issues so…it’s interesting that some people actually try to prohibit this because it hasn’t been “studied enough”.


Chappy_Sinclair_ t1_j530k2m wrote

My kid really, really wanted to be Thomas the Tank Engine when they grew up.


lantonas t1_j53ohf3 wrote

Should have put him on puberty blockers while he was retrofitted with wheels.


No1_Nozits_Me t1_j536tqx wrote

When I was a kid, I was absolutely certain that I was born the wrong gender. I had more friends of the opposite sex, thought my features were more like the opposite sex, and I was built more like the opposite sex.

50 years later, it's very obvious I was wrong when I was a kid, and I realized I was the correct gender when I hit puberty. Imagine how fucked up I'd be today if my parents rushed me to a doctor to "fix" me back then.


rudyattitudedee t1_j53q8qz wrote

My kid goes from wrestling his friends, telling girls they are hot and he’s buff and strutting like a peacock, playing hockey and getting dirty, to saying he’s a girl and dressing up like one and everywhere in between. He’s 6. I did the same shit when I was his age. I let him do whatever, it’s harmless. However, if he had his say he’d have me install YouTube again and he’d try to watch it all Fuckin day until he got a migraine and realized he had to shit and was starving. Kids are really just not that smart. They have no experience to say “I want to” versus “I need to” and know the difference. I think it’s best to let them feel feelings and if it becomes a constant thing for a long long time, start the actual consideration and consultations.


CocoTheElder t1_j56dbkl wrote

I think your key point there is that once you hit puberty, you realized you were cis. Now, can you imagine the opposite?


vexingsilence t1_j55snnl wrote

I've read many reports of boys who were underdeveloped, not as strong or as big as the other boys at their age levels, end up getting peer pressured into thinking they're actually girls and pretty much get pushed into some form of transitioning, only to later realize it's not at all what they wanted. There are a lot of truly disturbing stories out there. Having been bullied for being thin as a child, it's chilling to imagine what school would have been like if I were that age now. It was pretty terrible as it was, without all this grooming going on. I don't know how anyone can view it as anything other than child abuse.


CocoTheElder t1_j56dqqk wrote

Sorry, but the whole "being bullied into transition" thing is a made up wedge issue pushed by questionable sources.


YBMExile t1_j5ahqig wrote

Who is “rushing”? The argument that parents of trans kids are dropping everything and committing to the most immediate outcome is shit. Please, keep an open mind, listen to people around you who are trans or who support trans kids.


shortieXV t1_j53q2sd wrote

What I don't understand is why ban it? It should be a medical decision between a doctor and their patient. Why let the government decide what these folks need? It's not like this is being forced on anyone against medical recommendations. It's entirely elective so whether it's a mistake or a blessing for an individual it's their choice to make. Not mine, and certainly not the government's. Shoot this bill down. Do better.


TitanCubes t1_j54ezs3 wrote

The issue is that it’s not between doctor and patient because a minor cannot consent to these types of treatments only the parents can.


Educational-Eye4657 t1_j54ubid wrote

That doesn't give the Government a sweeping right to make that decision for an individual.


vexingsilence t1_j55t5du wrote

They're not. They're delaying the decision until the only individual that would be affected by it is able to consent.


Educational-Eye4657 t1_j55tclj wrote

That's exactly the purpose of puberty blockers, which this bill is trying to criminalize


vexingsilence t1_j55uo2c wrote

That would be abuse considering the child cannot consent.


1carus_x t1_j564w3i wrote

Intersex infants cannot consent to genital mutilations, yet this bill explcititly allows it


kpyna t1_j56fh7v wrote

That's my main issue with the bill. I do not like the explicit approval of procedures on intersex children.

Oh, you think it's abuse if a doctor, therapist, teenager, and parent all agree to use puberty blockers? But it's fine for parents to cut the dick off a hermaphroditic or ambiguous kid and raise them as a female before the kid is even able to talk? Make it make sense!!


HowardNelsonJr t1_j56fb2g wrote

Why ban it? Because they are proposing we allow the genital mutilation of children/minors. Why WOULDN’T we ban it


Azr431 t1_j539dhe wrote

>prohibits teaching about gender identity in public schools

Republicans are something else. Nothing to improve or make granite staters lives better. Just stupid fucking culture wars. Once a decade we get a new boogeyman from these mouth breathers


bitspace t1_j53dgx9 wrote

I think everyone in this thread would benefit from reading this investigative piece that Reuters published last month.

The article posted by u/WapsuSisilija is light, is a single low-powered observational study, and is by no means representative of scientific consensus, because there is no consensus.

This is a very complicated issue. It appears to be true that there are mental health improvements for people who have been able to transition, but the studies that show this have all been done over the course of only a few years. Some studies that have followed people post-transition for longer than a few years shows a higher incidence of regret, and a substantially higher number of people for whom their mental health challenges did not improve after transition.


smartest_kobold t1_j540huw wrote

I just read through it.

It makes a pretty good case for better long term assessment of various types for gender affirming care for minors, but "higher" incidence or regret" was 4/200 instead of 2/200.

>substantially higher number of people for whom their mental health challenges did not improve after transition.

Lots of confounding variables with this number, given the rates of employment and social discrimination trans people face.


Gotta_Gett t1_j53p9g0 wrote

These short studies don't surprise me or mean much personally. I've been prescribed steroids for skin conditions. They made me feel amazing. I wasn't tired after staying up 48hrs. Never felt better than when I was on steroids.


glockster19m t1_j59xtzo wrote

You realize that anabolic steroids and corticosteroids are very different

And you sure as hell didn't get anabolic steroids for a skin condition


Gotta_Gett t1_j5a2ap6 wrote

They bind to different receptors but they are all steroids. TRT has been shown to increase energy and sex drive.

> People with normal testosterone levels are sometimes treated with testosterone at the recommendation of their doctors or they obtain the medication on their own. Some have recommended it as a "remedy" for aging. For example, a study from Harvard Medical School in 2003 found that even among men who started out with normal testosterone results noted loss of fat, increased muscle mass, better mood, and less anxiety when receiving testosterone therapy. Similar observations have been noted among women. However, the risks and side effects of taking testosterone when the body is already making enough still discourages widespread use.


Jtagz OP t1_j53ucvr wrote

I think you’re confused friend as I don’t know what you’re talking about. I posted no such article in this entire thread. All I posted was the link to the bill and that’s it.


WapsuSisilija t1_j5306i9 wrote


Quirky_Butterfly_946 t1_j531yfq wrote

Their brains are not even fully developed yet, as well as not being able to comprehend the concept of gender. There is no reason to allow this to happen to children and does irreparable harm both physically and mentally to proceed with anything.

Leave them alone and allow them the time to fully decide for themselves instead of people moving too fast.


[deleted] t1_j533zbk wrote

Yet your brain is fully developed and you still seem unable to comprehend the concept of gender so I guess it's not entirely an age thing.


HernBurford t1_j536h0i wrote

I have seen conversation about this among GLAD and 603 Equality, among others, through their followers/supporters on Twitter. Less conversation on Reddit but people that I trust are working actively to defeat this bill.


youarelookingatthis t1_j55gdpm wrote

"Based on this review, there is an extremely low prevalence of regret in transgender patients after GAS."


"Overall, the most common reason for regret was psychosocial circumstances, particularly due to difficulties generated by return to society with the new gender in both social and family enviroments"


"Our study has shown a very low percentage of regret in TGNB population after GAS."


MiggySmalls6767 t1_j55m5na wrote

This couldn’t be more anti-New Hampshire if they tried. Block free speech? Check. Block 4th amendment right to privacy? Check. Block being allowed to make your own medical decisions? Check.

Between this and the anti-abortion bullshit the GOP going full authoritarian huh? Well folks you get what you vote for when you put scum buckets into office to fuck the state up with their knuckle dragging life views


vexingsilence t1_j55tgm6 wrote

>Block being allowed to make your own medical decisions?

They're children. Children don't get to make their own medical decisions.


CocoTheElder t1_j565tgf wrote

These decisions, even if made by parents on behalf of the minor, are not snap decisions. There is a process, including therapy and potentially ssri meds, that generally lasts a year or more, before any endocrinologist intervention, and longer before any surgical intervention. No one decides this overnight. I've been involved with this community, and I've never met a parent who actively encouraged transition. Including myself.


vexingsilence t1_j566h13 wrote

Doesn't change the fact that children can't consent.


CocoTheElder t1_j58lbq0 wrote

So children in this state can marry, but children of the same age requesting life saving interventions after lengthy psychological evaluation is, in your opinion, harmful. Ok.


MiggySmalls6767 t1_j583b1b wrote

This bill prevents parents from making medical decisions for their children, which is often done in conjunction with their children.

Unless you’re a psychopath and forcing them to take medication.


vexingsilence t1_j5it9da wrote

This isn't a decision that parents should be making, IMO. Wait until the child is old enough to make this decision on their own.


MiggySmalls6767 t1_j5js8ol wrote

So the state gets to mandate medical decisions that children/parents and doctors have all agreed to? Huh. No thanks communist China.

If I wanted to live in some authoritarian hellscape I’d go love to Mass. At least there I can also get some decent public transportation I guess.


vexingsilence t1_j5jyfx3 wrote

>If I wanted to live in some authoritarian hellscape I’d go love to Mass.

Cool, see ya.


Clock-Full t1_j53bwxo wrote

I genuinely don't have a strong opinion on this topic.

That being said, it made me think of other age-restricted things like tobacco, alcohol, etc. I wonder if the people that don't support this bill would back a bill to abolish age restrictions on tobacco and alcohol?


[deleted] t1_j53d6h4 wrote



Clock-Full t1_j53fcif wrote

My point in bringing up age restrictions for tobacco/alcohol was more rooted in a freedom of choice comparison. Should.a 15 year old legally be able to buy a fifth of vodka? Should a 15 year old legally be able to transition? I understand your example regarding health reasons, it makes complete sense. When we are talking health, an obvious 'no' to the vodka example, and a 'yes' to the transition example.

That being said, why shouldn't this be a consistent freedom (choice) for young people? Why can't they make their own decisions regarding what they do or put into their bodies?

Anyways, thanks for your comment and respect. Like I said, just spit-balling here.


asuds t1_j553laq wrote

Is the 15 year old been struggling mightily, bullied mercilessly, and very well might kill themselves if they don’t get the fifth of vodka?

If so, then I’d probably let them have it alongside making sure they are getting all sorts of support services.


asuds t1_j553ei9 wrote

There is a substantial material difference in the compromises that are being suggested between mental and physical health.

There is much less reason to compromise on age limits for smoking- which is really just because james dean made it super cool.

But drinking is less of an issue especially in many other cultures. However I’m not sure I want kids in bars at night (again seems like little to no benefits), as it seems that is a net negative instead of balancing good and bad to a net positive outcome.


Clock-Full t1_j557yky wrote

Mental and physical health are a lot more intertwined than you are suggesting.

I understand this is a very complicated issue and am not entirely sure what the correct outcome is for the health of children. That being said, when it comes to the legal side of the issue, I disagree with anyone that doesn't support this bill but then supports age restrictions on alcohol/tobacco. Although arguing for a net positive regarding children's health is a powerful argument, I think it's a bit more nuanced on the legality and morality.


TheMobyDicks t1_j561qx2 wrote

I've read through this whole thread and it seems both sides have come up with scientific literature both for and against transitioning while a minor. I lean towards not letting this occur until one is an adult but admit I'm fully uneducated on the science. That said, why in hell can't they discuss it in schools, particularly if discussions are info only with open dialogue? Perhaps not as part of a curriculum as there is likely not enough educators who are qualified to do so, but discussing it as part of a health class "open conversation" to hear what students think might be useful. If nothing else, it could help lessen trans discrimination now and in the future. JMO.


iamktf t1_j54v900 wrote

This bill is disgusting and should be getting more press. Did someone leave the door open again? Looks like those Mothers for Liberty got back in 🙄


OddWar6668 t1_j54lakv wrote

So all u people that think this is normal, kid can't get a tattoo but he can chop his d**k off??


asuds t1_j553sp6 wrote

I think if a kid is very likely going to kill themselves if they can’t I’d at least consider it. The goal is to minimize that bad outcomes of possible.

So if you had the choice between your child dying or having a tattoo then you are all in for them dying?


HowardNelsonJr t1_j56fq3z wrote

When they cause irreparable damage to their body while they are a child who has no idea what they want in life and then grow up to regret it is when they’re going to kill themself


pinetreesgreen t1_j56mdtr wrote

The "chopping" things off is a fallacy. That isn't not being done in the USA, except in extreme cases. Certainly not in NH. This is the kind of thing that brings bomb threats down on children's hospitals for no reason. The most that is being done is the removal of breast tissue, which is reversible if wanted. Drugs, etc are reversible.


asuds t1_j56l3bg wrote

Turn out that you are wrong. Big surprise I know.


1carus_x t1_j5652dd wrote

Reminder abt the trans sanctuary bill, I mention 619 but I haven't got the spoons to tackle it in a way that isn't just ripping apart everything wrong w the bill. There's a script that can be copy/pasted to email your rep


akaWhisp t1_j56orr8 wrote

In classic /r/NewHampshire fashion, people have no grasp on the facts. Transitioning, even for kids, has numerous positive outcomes and the research supports that.


bigdeborahoatmeal t1_j5a6p7q wrote

There are two different thoughts and opinions in this conversation, as with every single thing brought up in this country. This is NH, and we all throw around “live free or die” as it applies to one side of each argument. Our state constitution states that all have the right to privacy; transitioning is a private topic and process. If you want to live free, have no government regulate you, and be able to live the way you believe is best for you, why does it bother you so much that someone else wants to do the same? Here are the two sides to the coin; These are children of caring parents that want the best for their children. They have probably spent years having this conversation in the smallest amount of time. It could be months, but it’s still not a “my child woke up Tuesday, and they’re transitioning Thursday.” kids are more intelligent than we think, and generally, we know what we feel like at young ages. On the other side, these are children of unloving parents that should not be parents holding their child from being who they are, pushing their child to fit a box that works for the parents, and eventually, that child grows up mentally broken. Maybe they won’t even make it out of high school before they decide they are unlovable and aren’t worth living. There is more harm than good in these laws, and they are generally used to block real issues. Scientific evidence proves that gender-affirming care saves lives and creates a healthier community. If you aren’t ready to have a trans kid or any kid that isn’t straight, you should not be a parent. Your kids are their own individuals, and if you don’t want to listen to or don’t support them, you do not love them. Let people live. These aren’t hypothetical situations; they’re real, living, breathing people with the same senses and emotions as you. Stop treating them as if they are less than you or that you know what’s best for people you would never even attempt to get to know.


New_Project1793 t1_j53xf4b wrote

Honestly, I get 99% of my NH news from you, so 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽 I’ll jump on Twitter and share it there too 🥰🙏🏽


HowardNelsonJr t1_j56698d wrote

I’ll talk about it. Hopefully it passes!


Kyle_Smiles t1_j5b0hhm wrote

Because nobody fucking cares dude.


NeitherAsk1441 t1_j536n05 wrote

Get this shit out of my state. Live free or die FOR ALL


[deleted] t1_j53dkgf wrote



rudyattitudedee t1_j53qo12 wrote

Not really. Don’t tread on me but I’ll tread on them is kinda what not minding your business is. It’s a personal family matter. If trans people had an upper hand and started lobbying to take away guns you know they’d be squawking about personal freedoms. But cutting a persons genitals off didn’t cause a school shooting either.


[deleted] t1_j53rica wrote



rudyattitudedee t1_j53sers wrote

Correct. I’m sure there are a portion of people who are worried about child welfare and a larger portion who just want to fight anything they see as counter to their own culture. Let parents be parents. These things don’t Happen without medical professionals anyhow. I don’t think there would be any abusive parents out there who decided the best way to abuse their kids is to give them exactly what they want abuse kinda works the opposite way.


ninjamansidekick t1_j53hnvv wrote

Current transgender treatment is cross sex hormones which is a life time drug regiment. Why has there been no work in treating gender dysphoria with same sex hormones? Why are we trying to bend the body to the mind instead of bending the mind to the body? Same sex hormone treatment would be temporary and much less likely to cause irreversible long term damage. Unpopular idea, but if you look at this issue objectively this makes way more sense than the current path we are on. Unless there is more to this than the long term health of our children.


[deleted] t1_j53ivf2 wrote



ninjamansidekick t1_j53ko0a wrote

My understanding was that pharmaceutical remedies for genderdysphoria was fairly uncommon and a "wait and see" with counseling was the preferred method before the recent push for gender affirming care.

Having spent a lot of time down this rabbit hole. My conclusion is that our children are suffering, but the broad net cast by the gender activists is not helping because I do not believe the proposed solutions are a one size fits all and the political rhetoric makes it hard to have real discussions to find a lasting solution.


[deleted] t1_j53ljse wrote



ninjamansidekick t1_j53rclb wrote

It's a complex issue and for me as parent I don't want my kid to wake up some morning 10 years from now and realize they will never have children of their own because of a decision that was made as a confused 13 year old. What is my response if am asked why I let it happen?

I am sympathetic to idea that transgender teens exist and they should be supported, I am not convinced they exist in the numbers we are seeing. So the question I ponder is: Is this current trend of transgenderism helping or hurting more kids as a whole?

To me the simple answer is wait and see. I do recognize that early transition maybe beneficial in some cases, but that does not out weigh all the potential damage of misdiagnosis given the long term effects of most of the treatments.

History has more than one example of well intended social movements with scientific backing that did not age well. We often forget that humans have been around for awhile and we might not be as smart as we think we are.


smartest_kobold t1_j53zx29 wrote

Why don't we treat diabetes with more blood sugar? Natural sugar treatment would be temporary, but less likely to cause long term damage. Unpopular idea, but...


CrowmanVT t1_j56qcpm wrote

Wondering...those of you who are in favor of this legislation because, "kids aren't old enough to make these kinds of decisions," where do you stand on minors being charged as adults for criminal activity?