Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

B1naryD1git t1_j448twc wrote

Reply to comment by ThunderheadsAhead in New Hampshire Trans Sanctuary Bill (plus two others) by 1carus_x

You can't figure out what they mean by biologically male and female?

2

1carus_x OP t1_j44a48l wrote

Considering the fact there's a minimum of 6 different chromosomal sexes (not including all the variations of intersex, just a few), there's also endocrinologic sex, gonadal sex, and morphological sex. What is it basing it on, just one, or all? They're all biological, so which one?

22

Kekwexpress t1_j44coln wrote

Aren’t you talking about turner syndrome type stuff? Those are genetic errors in the developmental stage. These aren’t normal conditions. I don’t really understand what the point of all this is.

3

1carus_x OP t1_j44cwi8 wrote

Turner syndrome is just one of over 40 different variations. They are natural variations in sexual development, don't care for your intersexism. Still doesn't answer as to which of the biological sex categories intersex folk would fall into

11

Kekwexpress t1_j44dk66 wrote

But all these variations are abnormal conditions. It should be pretty obvious that when referring to biological sex, it’s referring to male/female.

3

Mrpgal14 t1_j44l45s wrote

OP replied well already but also just to state clearly, even if those things were uncommon abnormalities they should still be accounted for in the wording of the law to avoid any problems that ambiguity might cause. Laws shouldn’t be “pretty obvious” they should be crystal clear so certainly groups aren’t unfairly exempt, or worse so that the government doesn’t use that ambiguity to persecute whomever they see fit.

19

5teerPike t1_j45algt wrote

Plenty of intersex people live perfectly regular lives without cisnormative surgery, and such operations are increasingly considered unnecessary.

Being left-handed used to be considered an abnormal condition as well.

11

1carus_x OP t1_j44e7p1 wrote

Nope, intersex people are actually common, just as common as red heads, around 1.7% . Do you think those with blue eyes also have an abnormal condition since it was a mutation?
Again, don't care for your intersexism. And once again, I am asking, which of the several categories of sex are we referring to? Chromosomal, gonadal, morphological, endocrinologic? Intersex people's sex changes drastically depending on that category you're using.

3

vipstrippers t1_j44lk4i wrote

Where did you get 1.7%? You’re telling me almost 2 people out of 100 are intersex.

Edit: that number came from one person

Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.

7

largeb789 t1_j468g72 wrote

Even if it's 0.0017% the law should need to account for that situation. 0.0017% of 1.4 million would still leave the 24 people in a legal gray area and likely not legally able to enter a public restroom. A law restricting a person who has used the online handle of vipstrippers from entering a public restroom would be less restrictive.

3

quackslikeadoug t1_j46aksy wrote

You're confusing sex with characteristics associated with sexual dimorphism. The only two categories involved in defining a person's sex are chromosomal and gonadal, and ultimately gonadal wins out in any case where the two can't otherwise be reconciled; what really matters for most medical and social purposes is a person's phenotypical, or gonadal, sex.

2

1carus_x OP t1_j46avmn wrote

So you agree female isn't always XX then? There's XY woman with ovaries. Which, wow.... Means sex isn't binary! It's bimodal, two points that have an overlap. If it were binary there wouldn't be any overlap. What about those who don't have either or have both? Which bathroom does someone with a vagina and penis go to? Which prison would they put into? You'd be forcing men into the women's bathrooms, especially those who literally have peni and ovaries who have lived as men, are treated as such. Why do you want to make women uncomfortable?

1

vipstrippers t1_j44m2ve wrote

Wrong

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12476264/ Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%.

1

1carus_x OP t1_j44msd4 wrote

That is never what intersex meant lmao. It's pretty easy to look up the current definition of what is actually accepted. You are linking a post from 21 years ago. CAH babies are often forced to have genital mutilations, they are assigned the same and treated the same

12

Kekwexpress t1_j4np5yh wrote

Ridiculous. You can’t say that intersex is common. It’s extremely rare. You can’t use intersex people as an example to obviate the biological duality of sex, which upon all generation is based since all of human history.

Intersex is a biological anomaly and can’t be used to invalidate the concept of sex as a generality. Even further, most intersex people still manifest as either male or female.

The idea that intersex people exist doesn’t invalidate the idea that there is a male and a female.

So without being daft, you tell me which category of sex they’re talking about.

1

1carus_x OP t1_j4nq56k wrote

"Rare" yet there's at least two of us in these comments 🤭 no one has answered the question as to how those that can't be categorized into m or f would be placed, funny....

1

quackslikeadoug t1_j46a4u1 wrote

None of the genetic disorders resulting in "intersex disorders" creates a situation in which the functional sex of a living person is in any real question. The most compelling, case, obviously, would be weak or missing SRY, but we already have words for making distinctions between displayed characteristics and people's genotypes: phenotypes.

1

B1naryD1git t1_j44e75o wrote

Never heard of any of that. I've only met the 2 kinds of sexes in my 40+ years of life on earth

−11

1carus_x OP t1_j44ehz0 wrote

Great way to admit you only passed high school biology, actually, not even as I learned about the different types of sex in high school, and that someone half your age knows more abt the thing you act like you know anything abt.
Thanks for spending so much money on giving me rewards tho 💖

11

B1naryD1git t1_j44ffow wrote

I admit I only know about the 2 bathrooms. May not have even passed high school biology

−5

5teerPike t1_j45aqcj wrote

Public unisex bathrooms were never a problem until somebody told you trans people also use them.

7

B1naryD1git t1_j46r4we wrote

I don't have a problem with any of them just like I think weirdo goths and juggalos can do whatever hell they want. I still think they are weirdos though

1

5teerPike t1_j46rgq6 wrote

I wouldn't compare a gender identity to a costume, personally. Seeing as one is a choice & the other isn't.

I'm non binary, what do you want to know?

3

1carus_x OP t1_j46ai6h wrote

Wow I can't believe you actually admitted it lmao. Admitting it is the first step, here's a quick reading to catch you up on modern science, it's really quite fascinating all the ways the body can develop, here's more in the most common ones

6

ThunderheadsAhead t1_j45ujbo wrote

I personally have biological (genetic, endocrine, physical) markers for both male and female sexes. I'm a variation in the rich mosaic of human experience and I was born this way. I'd like them to clarify. I'd really like them to include a "why are we doing this" section in House bills.

I want to live my life in peace and have body autonomy. I want to be left alone when it comes to my genetics. I really just want to be left alone; I almost didn't comment on this post because this general cultural argument is so exhausting.

However, I'd also like to avoid being invalidated/erased by state law. I'm interested in things being crystal clear so that attempts to wage a battle over gender doesn't have negative side effects.

8