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jeanlucpikachu t1_j9gidkv wrote

If you want to read why sonar probably isn't the culprit, this is a good thread.

If you want to read how this is probably a GOP astroturf operation, this is a good thread.


[deleted] t1_j9gr1ox wrote



ezekielragardos t1_j9hzrc8 wrote

The other known threat is vessel strikes, wind farms have vessels on the water, but they’re required to have marine mammal observers onboard, and are a very small % of all the vessels on the water in the area, which do not have human observers looking for these animals.. idk it seems like the “other” thread doesn’t exist because, well, there isn’t really a valid “other” explanation….


Fallen_Mercury t1_j9jt6x1 wrote

I am not knowledgeable on the topic so I do not have a strong opinion. That's why I get exhausted by people who are equally uninformed yet exponentially more determined.

I was reading a couple of threads on Facebook when it first happened and there had been no time for any evidence to be gathered let alone communicated. The whole thread was full of comments like "it's obvious to everybody" and "do your research" and a lot of use of the word "they" to blame vague conspiratorial forces. A smattering of Let's Go Branden and King Murphy nabs as well.

The few people I saw asking for evidence were ridiculed or sent articles that didn't have evidence. In fact, one article recognized that ther whale death problem predates the windfarm activity.

I dove into the topic because I was concerned and wanted to know what info was out there. I found nothing convincing. I'm still open minded to learning more but I found it interesting that such passionate folks had so little info to share.

It sure seems like a conclusion looking for evidence.

I do find it but weird how the very same blocs of people who tend to scoff at anything remotely related to environmentalism have decided to make this their battle. It is difficult to take them seriously when they reject decades of scientific research of other environmental issues.


kyl3_m_r34v35 t1_j9lamet wrote

They are latching onto the supposed environmental concern as a rhetorical strategy; they don’t actually care about animals or the environment, as you rightly noted. Their goal is to seed doubt. We can see the same strategy deployed in other instances.


weaselpoopcoffee1 t1_j9gn6e0 wrote

I have a friend who could give 2 shits about whales and has never recycled a single thing. She attended a save the whales gathering this past week. She's a hardcore republican so after I gave it some thought it makes sense now. These people are psychos. Even Greenpeace doesn't think it's correlated.


trekologer t1_j9gxo9j wrote

I think it is a two-front attack: stop offshore wind generation for the benefit of the fossil fuel industry today while at the same time devaluing environmentalist objections to industry in the future.


Sudovoodoo80 t1_j9haz9n wrote

It's going to be funny seeing a bunch of lifted diesel trucks with "Save the Whales" stickers next to their thin blue line punisher skulls.


NoBananasOnboard t1_j9hqjxw wrote

Already happening.

Drive by the Municipal Marina in Belmar today. Boats that are flying Trump flags are flying “Save the Whales” flags. No joke.


metsurf t1_j9j79ej wrote

Sorry can’t help myself but have you seen Trump’s physique?


Nexis4Jersey t1_j9hsotd wrote

Which is ironic because most of the deaths can be linked to boat strikes.


NoBananasOnboard t1_j9htn91 wrote

Larger ships do strike.

The latest mammal standings have not been confirmed as ship strikes. Important to get the facts right.

Most of the sub-100’ boats you’d find in Belmar do not hit marine mammals, as a collision would be catastrophic for the vessel, operators keep a lookout and have the ability to dodge.


Nexis4Jersey t1_j9htu52 wrote

Oh ,the warmer temps likely pushed the food source closer to the ship lanes.


NoBananasOnboard t1_j9hu1y8 wrote

Climate is changing fast.

NJ is seeing aquatic species near our shores that were only seen south of us a decade ago.


metsurf t1_j9j7lfd wrote

Or since whaling has largely been outlawed there are more of them. Look at seal populations on east coast. Seal hunts have been banned by marine mammal protection act and they are returning to beaches from NJ to Nova Scotia. Cleaner water in shore as well more food sources.


Bro-Science t1_j9kkvi9 wrote

it was the quotas on menhaden that had the largest effect. the bunker population has absolutely exploded on the jersey shore in the last 5 years which brings all kinds of life back to area to feed.


irishdave999 t1_j9idrv6 wrote

Um, not sure why the size of boats in Belmar is relevant....a whale that gets struck in the shipping channel near say, sandy hook, by a giant freighter, can easily end up washing ashore in Belmar


irishdave999 t1_j9iemrx wrote

Ever since China’s economic situation changed and the cargo port in Los Angeles had its issues, the port of NJ has seen unprecedented volume of cargo ships. Theres more of them and they’re bigger and faster than ever before. But yeah SOnaR be kILlInG WHaleS


BurnWitches4Jesus t1_j9hriut wrote

Stranger things have happened. The Democrats are all in love with big pharma and the military industrial complex now. Would have been unthinkable during the Bush years.


Sudovoodoo80 t1_j9hte4j wrote

News to me, but okay. Guess I missed that meeting.


Jimdomitable t1_j9igm8m wrote

If you support COVID vaccination and supporting Ukraine through arms deals you are a big pharma and military industrial complex shill. I'm really disappointed because we did in fact cover this in the meeting back on 12/16 and you were definitely there because you brought the orange cranberry scones. I'll send you a copy of the minutes, please read them before the next gathering.


toomuchoversteer t1_j9jnj44 wrote

Pro vaccination does not equal pro big pharma.

Pro ukraine isn't Pro military industrial complex.

These are false equivalences


Mr_Matt_K t1_j9gy5zw wrote

Why is the GQP so concerned about whales all of a sudden? The last time we had a whale on the beach, he only got 7% in NH.


murphydcat t1_j9hyd98 wrote

This reminds me when GOP suddenly cares about brown people shooting each other in Chicago when Democrats bring up gun control.


TimSPC t1_j9gv9al wrote

There should be no place on the Jersey Shore from which you can't see a windmill.


Yoshiyo0211 t1_j9h6ss0 wrote

I would think viewing a windmill spinning off in the distant horizon while relaxing on the shore would be zen af but some ppl don't want any chill.


Cool_Cartographer631 t1_j9hg82r wrote

Nah man definitely obstructing my view. Much prefer atop a tree so I don’t gotta see it. Show it to aliens.


WeCanDoThisCNJ t1_j9h2dh1 wrote

They wanted oil platforms close enough for us to see from the beach. Why should a windmill be any different?


Salty_Handle_2736 t1_j9jtmfh wrote

Exactly trump lifted the off shore drilling ban everywhere on east coast except Florida…gee, I wonder why!


IrishGuyiNjersey t1_j9h3m5h wrote

I think that’s kind of their point, it’s just worded very weirdly.


Dux-Mathildis t1_j9h3pbi wrote

I don't think anyone really objects to oil platforms only because of the way they look.


WeCanDoThisCNJ t1_j9h429f wrote

They’re ugly, but they also utterly ruin beaches when things go wrong—and they do.


Dux-Mathildis t1_j9h4h8b wrote

You might think they're ugly, but I think they're cool-looking--so I'm not sure that point matters much at all.

What I do find really important is trying literally anything at all to wean this country off coal and oil! Wind turbines offer that opportunity; not saying they're perfect but I'd rather a dozen turbines over one more Deep Horizon spill.


toomuchoversteer t1_j9jnwp1 wrote

How would they ruin a beach? And how often do they do?


WeCanDoThisCNJ t1_j9jy3f5 wrote

There was a massive spill off Huntington Beach, CA, in 2020. Then there’s the Deepwater Horizon disaster that’s still impacting Gulf of Mexico beaches 13 years later. All you need is one accident and you could have billions in lost revenue from Sandy Hook to Atlantic City.


murphydcat t1_j9hy6wj wrote

I haven't noticed your objection to planes towing banners and boats displaying lighted billboards.


peter-doubt t1_j9i0cqu wrote

Why? You're already watching rusty freighters obscure the horizon as they float by... At least wind turbines look clean.


invertedeparture t1_j9gc5h2 wrote

Don Cabrera, a signer and mayor of the borough of Wildwood Crest, said he’s opposed to “tampering with our ecosystem and ocean floor and possibly harming marine and other life.”

Yeah, great point, Don. The oil spills have greatly enriched the ecosystem and marine life. Let's just stick with that plan. Wind is much too dangerous. /s


WeCanDoThisCNJ t1_j9h2a85 wrote

Wait, so windmills didn’t give the whales cancer?


RPCV4GunSense t1_j9hr4qb wrote

1010 WINS has been doing a stellar job of promoting the windmill theory. They just run whatever the GOP hands them.


Bulky-Barracuda-2749 t1_j9k9gcy wrote

that rally was about 1,000 ppl that have no idea what’s actually going on getting together & getting each other riled up without having any clue. but hey COA got to sell some merch


bakerfaceman t1_j9jr6yo wrote

Astroturfing is the worst. These people couldn't give a wet fart about whales.


structuremonkey t1_j9hpmse wrote

Yeah, no mention at all that the possible real culprit is avian flu...its been a real issue with scientific research and backing for a while now...but tHe WinDMilLs....because they are a Trump fetish...ffs


Legitimate_Page t1_j9jxbpb wrote

Oy, doing an opinion piece in my Coastal Law class about this. We've got some intresting characters in that class, I am sooooo excited for the presentations. /s


CasuallyInsecureMan t1_j9he1fm wrote

I understand why people don’t want to look at wind turbines from their vacation homes on the shore.


TheAmateurletariat t1_j9hmeu9 wrote

I want my view of the apocalypse to be unobstructed.


CasuallyInsecureMan t1_j9knixv wrote

I fully support the installation of wind turbines, but I just think they should be installed offshore non-touristy areas first.


IronSeagull t1_j9hoaon wrote

Windmills look cool, I love seeing them when I’m driving. We need to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.


Legitimate_Page t1_j9jx9m4 wrote

Glad you understand, but too bad there are 0 federal laws that protect the view from someone's home & states / towns don't have jurisdiction far enough out to sea to block most windmill projects.


CasuallyInsecureMan t1_j9koi9t wrote

I understand. I have no skin in the game. I voted for politicians (albeit not much of a choice) to best represent my ideals so I don’t have to spend time making these kinds of decisions. I fully support the installation of renewable energy and the eventusl switchover from fossil fuels to clean energy. I honestly don’t really care what happens here, but I’d be curious to know how offshore wind turbines would affect the value of property on the shore and the tourism industry in the summer. It’s a major part of the state’s economy.


SmittyManJensen_ t1_j9g6vgt wrote

Every article I’ve read about this has specifically stated officials don’t believe there is a direct cause of death related to the surveying. That’s great, we all know that sonar doesn’t directly cause whales to die. But if a dozen whales are confused and disoriented by the surveying equipment being used and they proceed to swim into the path of a boat, which is something they don’t typically do, then maybe there may be a correlation there.


WeCanDoThisCNJ t1_j9h2l31 wrote

So we should mothball our entire Atlantic fleet? Warships/submarines use sonar. Hey, if you want a total stand-down of military operations on the water, then get behind that.


beowulf92 t1_j9h2754 wrote

While that's certainly possible, then you'd see this same scenario occurring all around the world where sonar is used for mapping around shipping lanes and whale migratory paths. Now I don't keep up with any news with stuff like that, so maybe it has been witnessed before, but I personally would need to see this scenario being seen elsewhere to truly be on board that sonar right now off our coast is to blame. There could also be a litany of other factors around our shoreline specifically that could be attributed to it too. Cleaner waters than we've had in the past could be leading to a healthier ecosystem with more fish and shrimp-esque organisms the whales will feed on, drawing them closer to shore and into shipping lanes. I've also seen theories of disease circulating around populations off our coast, which of the organisms are tested and that's found to be the case, would be a factor then. It should certainly be looked at, and if proven to have an actual correlation with the sonar, then yes it should be addressed. I haven't looked at any data, but if there's been an increase in beachings over the last several years preceding any mapping occurring, then that would point to something else being a cause as well.


SmittyManJensen_ t1_j9h2rra wrote

Pausing the development for a little bit is not a bad idea though, nor would it be to pause anything else that may be causing it.


peter-doubt t1_j9i1e96 wrote

Last time a big local project was "paused", it set back infrastructure by over a decade. Climate change marches on.. we need to get something done other than more talk.


SmittyManJensen_ t1_j9i5xf3 wrote

And yet there’s no progress being made on nuclear.


peter-doubt t1_j9jktwd wrote

I'm talking about a needed tunnel to NY...