Comments
Pherllerp t1_j9ydszy wrote
Yes they’re rich a-holes who don’t want to build windmills because a) Phil Murphy is governor, b) drill baby drill!, and c) they’re stupid.
Edit: the luddites are getting to to this comment pretty late. Maybe they’ll appreciate clean energy by 2060.
theroguehero t1_j9ye3o4 wrote
also they don't want to spoil their million dollar ocean views with a couple windmills in the ocean lol
Lost_Sheepherder5090 t1_j9yh66v wrote
Am I the only one who thinks wind turbines are aesthetically pleasing and relaxing to watch?
DarwinZDF42 t1_j9yhead wrote
I think they’re great, don’t spoil the view at all. Right now it’s tankers out there. So symbolic that, ahem, some people would prefer the tankers.
dirtynj t1_j9yt6na wrote
Even worse are the boats that literally are hired to drive a billboard across your view. Nothing ruins a beautiful shoreline view quite like a big insurance advertisement banner on the horizon.
mdp300 t1_j9yhbco wrote
You're not, I think they're cool.
la_de_cha t1_j9ywa8u wrote
They are actual tourist attractions in other countries. We did a tour to see them off some cliffs in the Philippines.
HotConversation4355 t1_ja0a2mz wrote
It’s funny to listen to conservatives regurgitate whatever disinformation is said about wind turbines .. it’s generally from politicians who occupy seats of government they claim not to trust. But they will repeat it anyway
Ronin_1981 t1_ja2tuav wrote
Political operatives too lazy to grab Pickett signs usually end up On here pushing AOC talking points.
Complete_Passage_767 t1_ja4n186 wrote
Yeah, they should get on their feet and attempt to subvert democracy like troo muricans.
Lalaela t1_j9yr2az wrote
Did a cross country road trip... saw turbine farms. Got excited every time.
Snownel t1_ja04duf wrote
If you run across one with synchronized aircraft lights at night it's incredible. Just surrounded by hundreds of little red dots all flashing together in the middle of nowhere.
wasitme317 t1_j9z553r wrote
I do and love their sound good for sleeping.
Ronin_1981 t1_ja2tm33 wrote
You people are nuts over these wind turbines. Notice you bill falling?
mdp300 t1_j9yh8lj wrote
I remember when a guy sued Harvey Cedars because they built up the dunes, which he claimed ruined the view from his beachfront house.
Initially he won, but then the town won on appeal, where the judge said that if the dunes hadn't been raised, his house probably would have been washed away by Sandy.
Pherllerp t1_j9yed17 wrote
That’s such a bullshit argument because they won’t be visible 80% of the time AND there are already ducking garbage barges and oil tankers off the coast.
4rch t1_j9ylsft wrote
Listen I'm all for a good circle jerk, assuming everyone is either stupid or a paid oil lobbyist.
But I don't think people can really understand what this will look like since it's the largest deployment in the country. It's not going to be like the ships you currently see before they drop off the horizon
BOEM made a visual simulation, unsure which shore but simulations for southern NJ beaches are much more pronounced https://youtu.be/HpENfLkVPt8
KashEsq t1_j9ymo5u wrote
Wow, you can barely even see them
4rch t1_j9ypva9 wrote
Yeah like I said they're more pronounced from South Jersey observation points due to the deployment being mostly focused there.
Most people are worried the conditions providing visibility on page 10 will be the norm instead of the exception. https://www.boem.gov/sites/default/files/documents//VIA-South-Attachment-E-Photosimulations-Part-5-BHB01.pdf
Electronic_Chard_270 t1_j9yz0j2 wrote
So still barely visible?
Usrname132 t1_j9z3zpp wrote
I hope they make the right decision but.. Whatever that may be, I read a comment on the video with a good point, “will they have to put lights on these, what will it look like at night?” It’s crazy how much energy we need there’s so many fucking people, we demand so much as the human race.
I wish we could learn more about the impact we have on the planet, I hope everyone having children understand the impact they have, how that one human will consume and use so much in its life and more than likely also make a human who makes grandchildren who make people and so on and so on.. I’m starting to feel life is undervalued and people aren’t realizing how lucky they are to be on our earth, so many people consuming, Is this sustainable?
Dino1087 t1_j9yrad8 wrote
Is that a joke?
KashEsq t1_j9yvc1a wrote
No, it was an observation. Watch the video, the wind turbines are so far off in the distance that you can barely see them from the beach
Dino1087 t1_j9yzmv6 wrote
Click the second photo they just posted and look at the photo on the second page. They aren’t barely visible when you don’t use the panoramic option as a photo to throw everyone off. Everyone making this about disproving whale deaths, there are so many other things these things do to damage the ecosystem with very very little benefit to making “clean energy”. It’s such a farse
Mysticpoisen t1_j9zldkv wrote
Pretty barely visible. What other environmental impact? Is lots of clean energy allowing us to reduce reliance on carbon emissions really 'very very little benefit'?
Ronin_1981 t1_ja2u4r8 wrote
So put em there because you think you can save the planet or because that brain washing from school got you emotional? Just Hope all of you have your shots and boosters. It all makes sense now.
fireman2004 t1_j9z33nx wrote
Aren't they going to be 10 miles off shore? Are they even that visible from the beach?
FettLivesMatter t1_ja0rcmp wrote
I’ve seen renders they’re so far out it would be specks on the horizon.
doh420 t1_ja091fq wrote
The lease areas in NJ are closer to 15 ft offshore
NJ35-71SONS t1_j9yrly1 wrote
I was always under the impression that the horizon line seen from the shore was actually only 3 miles or so of sight… aren't these proposed way further off than that and hence wouldn’t be visible at all… can someone please correct me or confirm this?
No-Investment4946 t1_ja2xp4r wrote
Horizon is 13 miles.
doh420 t1_ja08aw6 wrote
The worst part is that turbines 15 miles offshore will hardly even be visible https://www.delaware-surf-fishing.com/this-is-what-the-wind-farms-will-look-like-from-the-delaware-beaches/
Twelve20two t1_ja0avdy wrote
As someone who enjoys the aesthetics of SolarPunk, windmills in the sea sounds so fucking cool to me
Eccentric_Algorythm t1_j9zby64 wrote
It’s true but they don’t own the oceanz. So sucks to suck.
[deleted] t1_ja0kn7f wrote
[deleted]
nolabitch t1_j9yqyff wrote
Rich-driven advocacy is the WORST.
_skull_kid_ t1_j9zl8la wrote
The same rich assholes who threw a fit when we switched to reusable bags and paper straws. They don't give a shit about the environment.
They are so concerned about what they might build offshore, but continue to cement over a glorified sandbar. When Sandy 2.0 hits, LBI will wash away.
Ronin_1981 t1_ja2und0 wrote
Poor people don’t have time to care about their environment, look around, the rich clearly do. Look how poor people are wishing harm out of envy and jealousy. Imagine being so foolish as to think windmills will save the environment. You must drive a second hand Tesla.
jarrettbrown t1_j9yhtf1 wrote
> Phil Murphy is governor
I've also started seeing people posting an old tweet from 2018 that said that he signed a bill that was going to prevent any new drilling off the Jersey coast. Ummm... folk, this is in relation to the natural gas drilling that Christie was in favor of, not windmills.
New_Stats OP t1_j9ylrhx wrote
The bill to spur wind farm development was written by Sweeney (D) and Kean (R) in 2010. Murphy just signed the thing they wrote and finally got passed.
I don't know why you think these lies will work in NJ, but I assure you, we are not some country bumpkins with the memory of a goldfish
TimSPC t1_j9zif81 wrote
They literally just don't want to see them. It's so dumb.
Michael_Blurry t1_j9zze73 wrote
And they won’t bother learning the facts so they probably think they’ll build them like 100 ft out from the shoreline. Or they know the truth but will still make those claims to fire up the idiots.
wasitme317 t1_j9z50w0 wrote
One I don't like Phil but I agree with the wind turbines it's good
Pherllerp t1_j9z7a3k wrote
Anyone opposing any means of carbon reduction is delusion so good for you.
FettLivesMatter t1_ja0r2pk wrote
They’re so far out, the passing boats cause more of an eye sore. It wont harm they’re value.
Pleasant_Living1130 t1_ja1bsv8 wrote
Thanks to them, LBI won't even be above water in another decade.
lump- t1_j9zqe6n wrote
Well, they don’t want to mess up their nice ocean view.
Pherllerp t1_j9zsz87 wrote
Even if that was a valid rationale, how are some windmills messing up their view worse than say 50 years of off shore smog or a constant parade of oil tankers?
Antique-Pin5468 t1_ja1zm3f wrote
Didn't you mean to say that Phil Murphy is lying, cheating,sneaky,back stabbing piece of Shit!?!
Ronin_1981 t1_ja2w3q6 wrote
But only the rich own turbines. Try less emphasis on hating rich people and more on talking about we had energy bonanza just 2 years ago now we are scrambling for wind. Lol.
ibeecrazy t1_j9yibnk wrote
First it was the view! They ran some dumb grassroots campaign about pushing the windmills 35 miles out. These dumb people are going to lose their home from rising oceans and worry about the fucking view. A majority of the island are redumblicans anyways, can’t say i’m suprised.
hiltonke t1_j9zvqtf wrote
Yup they decimated the islands wildlife population to live there and are worried about the whales.
Ronin_1981 t1_ja2vsdk wrote
What’s most interesting here is that some folks think wind turbines are good for the environment. What you really mean is that you intend to do nothing about being a greedy energy hog but demand that more of the natural world be googled to feed your need to jump online pretending to be an elite. Fake outrage from people who pollute everything they touch including the internet with their trash. Why are we saving humanity again? The self anointed good ones are spoiled brats holding a gun to Mother Natures head saying it’s for a good cause. Poor people don’t own wind farms so to pretend like everyone against it is rich is silly when it’s a fubu project of the rich.
DarwinZDF42 t1_j9ycr7k wrote
Build the wind farms.
Rate of whale deaths have been increasing for over a decade. It’s correlated with…drumroll…higher whale populations!
Anti-wind NIMBY’s: Take a hike.
ManInKilt t1_j9ygles wrote
Nah fuck the wind build tidal generators instead they're less maintenance intensive and more efficient
Jerry_Callow t1_j9ypcnj wrote
Not ready to scale yet as far as I've seen. But all for it in theory.
ManInKilt t1_j9ypnxy wrote
It's supplemental at best, much like turbines. But if we're going to beat around the nuclear bush we can at least go for the more efficient
jarrettbrown t1_j9yhf5w wrote
I've been in favor of this for years. The only thing that can think of is that fixing them is gonna be a mother if then break.
ManInKilt t1_j9ymnvy wrote
Still a hell of a lot easier than a turbine
jarrettbrown t1_j9ynrm9 wrote
Yep. I brought this book years ago called The Works, which talks about infrastructure of cites, mostly New York in this case, and one idea suggested this. The only issue that would be the same is running the cable to the land.
KashEsq t1_j9yn1b2 wrote
¿Por que no los dos?
ManInKilt t1_j9yp8rz wrote
Because turbines are actually kind of terrible. Maintenance intensive, takes a lot to produce, can't recycle the blades when they wear out so they just get buried, expensive.... All around not worth the squeeze. But they look good and green so people do it anyway
heartshapedpox t1_j9z22sn wrote
Recycling alternatives are actively being developed, for what it's worth:
"The good news is that some efforts at developing alternatives are underway. Two large utilities in the US, PacificCorp and MidAmerican Energy, for example, have recently announced plans to partner with the Tennessee company Carbon Rivers to recycle some of the utilities spent turbine blades instead of landfilling them. The technology used by Carbon Rivers is being supported through grant funding by the US Department of Energy and will be used to break down and reuse fiberglass from used turbine blades."
Source: https://blog.ucsusa.org/james-gignac/wind-turbine-blades-recycling/
socbrian t1_ja196uz wrote
Or nuclear
ManInKilt t1_ja3r10b wrote
I mean yeah but Chernobyl scawwy
dirtynj t1_j9ygyyv wrote
I'm part of nonprofit environmental organization.
We wrote to Clean Ocean Action telling them that there is no truth to any of their claims and its a bunch of pseudoscience political nonsense. Our President even talked to one of their organizers about their false claims directly. It did not go well.
In the last 5-10 years COA went from a helpful organization to a political one. Don't believe anything they say...they simply do what they want now to promote their own agenda, facts be damned.
Farm2Table t1_j9ytz7w wrote
Cindy has always been about preserving the beaches for the property values f homeowners and success of businesses on the beach. She's never been interested in the environment itself.
She's an accidental environmentalist.
An organization I was working with in the 90s partnered with COA on some initiatives. We were very wary of her and the greenwashing she was providing to anti-environmentalists.
phillybilly t1_j9yslbh wrote
I’d be curious if COA gets money from places other than individual donations
borednerd t1_ja13lrd wrote
Idk, is water wet?
phillybilly t1_ja15fmc wrote
Their info is available online. I just looked and it appears Cindy and MaryBeth are the 2 main employees. They do quite well if I’m reading those compensation figures correctly
sthrlndk t1_j9zm0mr wrote
Thank you for the update on Clean Ocean Action. I used to support them a long time ago when hospital waste was washing up on the shores. But I haven't looked into them in a long time. I suppose any organization can change in 40 years.
WitchSlap t1_j9ywbx6 wrote
So what's the real theory for the mortality event?
TenBillionDollHairs t1_j9zgstk wrote
Military sonar, not ground mapping sonar. Vastly more powerful and literally causes fatal internal bleeding in whales.
To be clear, the fish finder radar under a boat is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the extremely powerful "pings" used to find submarines. This is even painful or fatal for humans if they are near a sub when a ping goes out.
WitchSlap t1_ja0xj2f wrote
That's terribly sad.
currently__working t1_ja2ms4j wrote
Is there proof?
TenBillionDollHairs t1_ja32zig wrote
Well the navy admitted it happens and that's the scientific fact that this rich person beach protection crew is exploiting. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/does-military-sonar-kill/#:~:text=While%20little%20is%20known%20about,from%20the%20sounds%20of%20sonar.
This is from 2009 but I believe the navy has admitted this since at least 2002
BigBrown609 t1_ja1e4nb wrote
Do you have any links to back this up? I’d like to read it and have it handy when people bring this stuff up
backdraft29 t1_j9yf46m wrote
Maritime vessels have been using sonar for something like 80 years
IBetThisIsTakenToo t1_j9zfgnn wrote
Whales have been hating it for 80 years, too. I’m not saying this mapping is the cause for this specific event, but it’s definitely true that sonar scares the shit out of whales, and they can beach themselves because of it. It’s at least plausible. Not a good reason to stop all wind farms forever (climate change is still the bigger danger), but if it is causing this, maybe we need to explore different methods of mapping, if possible
Tough_Obligation5981 t1_ja2zjus wrote
Sorry but Wikipedia is generally a very poor and unreliable source for accurate scientific information. Now post some links to peer-reviewed reports, not sponsored by the fossil fuel industry, big pharma, the military industrial complex, etc, and I’m all ears.
IBetThisIsTakenToo t1_ja3mphc wrote
> not sponsored by the fossil fuel industry, big pharma, the military industrial complex, etc, and I’m all ears.
You think the military industrial complex is against sonar? They invented it! No one would be against banning sonar more than the US military haha
I have to hand it to big oil though, these links started to be noticed as far back as the 1960s. Very prescient of them to start faking the data way back then, knowing that 60 years later it would give them a feeble argument against one type of alternative energy!
MillennialsAre40 t1_j9yju4g wrote
So is every one of them using a fish finder on their cabin cruiser
whaler76 t1_j9ynk33 wrote
Don’t everyone get their knickers in a bunch, all I’m saying is there is a big difference from a recreational fish finder to ocean floor (and whats below it) mapping sonar.
Nebakanezzer t1_ja0jrva wrote
Shhhh, they don't care about science. They just want something to back their political beliefs
aced124C t1_j9yjkwd wrote
For those that are curious these two links might be a good start for context
https://www.distilled.earth/p/the-man-trying-to-kill-americas-offshore
https://fair.org/home/oil-lobby-prompts-right-wing-media-to-save-whales-from-wind-power/
mdp300 t1_j9yoz8o wrote
Of course the "climate activists" that hate wind power are backed by oil.
raindropdroptopz t1_j9yprid wrote
I made a post about this the other day because it’s a rabbit hole I went down the other week haha. Even got banned from one of the “Protect Our Coast NJ” Facebook pages when I pointed out the donate link literally linked to a big oil think tank…
aced124C t1_j9z1sak wrote
Lol nice that sounds like an achievement to me, nicely done 👍
Bogart_The_Bong t1_j9yq0af wrote
Yep. Wolves in wolf clothing.
erection_specialist t1_j9yny7x wrote
I love how being anti- everything not oil turns Republicans into fake environmentalists
Hamonwrysangwich t1_j9zp8kn wrote
Same folks that mock Greenpeace and Greta Thunberg.
kreebletastic t1_ja2g6cn wrote
Anti-everything but oil and nuclear.
heptapod t1_j9ykh7m wrote
I am baffled as to how people are arguing wind turnbines over the ocean are going to kill whales.
THE_some_guy t1_j9yqdti wrote
They’re using sonar to survey the sea floor in preparation for building wind turbines there. People are claiming that the sonar activity is what’s causing the “recent” increase in whale beaching.
…except the trend of increased beaching goes back at least 10 years, well before any wind farm related activity. And the organizations making the most noise about “those poor whales” are very clearly funded by the oil industry, who would obviously prefer that we keep burning their product instead of making electricity from wind.
midnitte t1_j9ywoy2 wrote
Indeed, Clinate Change (and other human activities) are to blame.
Bogart_The_Bong t1_j9ypg98 wrote
These are the same people who went to Dallas awaiting the return of JFK Jr. who has been dead for 30 years.
We're not dealing with intelligence here.
structuremonkey t1_j9ywlhi wrote
These are the same people who will argue for hours, in writing, over the answer for an " order of operations" algebra problem on facebook...
Dicksapoppin69 t1_j9yorvz wrote
I read that they dump hundreds of barrels of diesel into the water to make them start to spin and that to put them into the ground they gotta use TNT to blow up the ground and then use dangerous chemicals to make the bases
I read it in my "I fucking love Oil" Facebook group
Anonymoushipopotomus t1_j9yq9j5 wrote
I was talking to someone at the Surf City Hotel who was talking loudly about this. In the same sentence he went from the windmills are going to block the wind coming from the ocean and it will make the beach hotter, and it will also somehow make it more powerful so that it blows the dunes back over the island.
phillybilly t1_j9ysdc0 wrote
For a good time get on Nextdoor and listen to some of your neighbors regurgitate propaganda they see on tv.
NJoose t1_j9yxabj wrote
I live in Ocean county. I can’t wait to watch our local magas to transform from “I don’t give a fuck about the whales/environment” to full-blown climate crusaders once Tucker runs another story or two and the boomers pass around the Facebook memes. Sonar is the new 5G.
12kdaysinthefire t1_j9zg46q wrote
Just sounds like millionaire beach house owners last desperate attempt to try and not have to look out their beachfront windows at windmills in the distance. The people who live a mile inland don’t give a shit about your ruined Airbnbs, but they do give a shit about lower energy bills.
sharkerburg t1_ja053j7 wrote
I also don’t know how windmills ruin the view of anything
FunGoolAGotz t1_j9yedki wrote
sorry to be the ignoramus here, but what are the facts surrounding the uptick in dead whales along the Jersey shore?
New_Stats OP t1_j9yfz1m wrote
There's been an uptick well before the sonar mapping. NOAA says it's most likely due to vessel strikes.
Rainbowrobb t1_j9yixbx wrote
So the rate of strandings began to increase prior to the sonar mapping. There has been an increase of whales in recent years due to an increase of their prey. It's really that simple apparently
tonyblow2345 t1_j9yhx1a wrote
The key would be to figure out if the whales were hit and it caused their death, or they were sick/dead at the surface before being hit. I would HOPE they have someone trying to determine these things.
Sudovoodoo80 t1_j9zpco8 wrote
They do but it can be difficult, because most of the time by the time a dead whale ends up on shore decay has already started.
Shawn0mara t1_j9z793o wrote
But most have these have been during the winter when there’s not many vessels out there besides cargo ships?
New_Stats OP t1_j9z9g4g wrote
Quick question, what do you think is killing whales? Massive cargo ships or Jeff's 20 foot fishing boat that's smaller than most the things washing up on our shores and he's cleverly named "Huge Test Tackles"?
Shawn0mara t1_j9zk7lt wrote
Right but many of these vessel strikes could be after the whale is already dead. The carcasses are always too decomposed to check their ears for damage.
I’m not saying it’s sonar/wind related but it’s worth looking into the root cause because whale deaths haven’t been this frequent in my lifetime.
New_Stats OP t1_j9zlnf1 wrote
>Right but many of these vessel strikes could be after the whale is already dead
​
read. the. fucking. link. holy shit.
Shawn0mara t1_ja108f4 wrote
lol
[deleted] t1_j9z22pd wrote
[removed]
structuremonkey t1_j9yvluy wrote
a few reasons I've read recently:
-Warming water Temps push their migration routes and feeding zones to different locations, often right into shipping lanes. This increases vessel strikes. The NY metro area is one of the busiest shipping areas on the East Coast.
-
avian flu. It's known to be killing seals and dolphins; it's likely to have made its way into whales.
-
eating of and entanglement in plastics including lost fishing ropes, drift nets, and micro plastics.
currently__working t1_ja2n7zz wrote
Whoa whoa what about the avian flu affecting sea mammals as well? I heard it was also passing to mink somewhere too.
mdp300 t1_j9ygv3m wrote
As far as I'm aware, we don't know exactly yet.
nowhereman136 t1_j9zqqem wrote
They said/say the same thing about birds and windfarms on land. Yeah, the occassional bird gets hit by a blade and dies, it's sad. Not compare that to the millions of birds who die from contaminated air and water pollution? How much wildlife dies when a pipeline bursts or tanker spills? It's a joke that these people hide behind birds when they say they don't like wind farms.
(Also, they've started painting wind blades to make them easier for birds to see. Dropping the rate of bird deaths by an estimated 90%)
dericn t1_j9zuvhe wrote
> Not compare that to the millions of birds who die from contaminated air and water pollution
metaTaco t1_ja2eyqd wrote
I looked up the group that is pushing this shit. It's a right wing group from Delaware that spearheads these kind of disinformation campaigns on behalf of fossil fuel industries. There's an episode of climate town that highlights some of their other astroturfing hijinx.
No-Swordfish1380 t1_j9z3g63 wrote
When those articles first came out I was like, “wait…the whales are offing themselves over just the thought of renewable energy…?🤨” It’s honestly stunning how stupid and misinformed people are.
throw_bundy t1_ja25s4h wrote
I mean Whales were one of the primary oil producers in the 19th century...
wasitme317 t1_j9z4vu3 wrote
Explain Christie on beach day how did he get washed up.
New_Stats OP t1_j9z5dcr wrote
The feeling of "I can do whatever the fuck I want and get away with it scott free, with zero consequences and still have a better quality of life than most of you plebs when this is all over" killed him.
midnitte t1_j9zwfxw wrote
"If you want to visit the beach, after I fail to secure a state budget, all you have to do is be governor!"
Ravenhill-2171 t1_j9z7k3o wrote
Thing is we don't know what is causing this and it should be intvestigated. But do these idiots care about the whales? Are we to believe all these conservatives sudden became ecowarriors?? What a load of BS. Like rail safety or healthcare its just a convenient bludgeon to smash their opponents with.
kreebletastic t1_ja2ep7m wrote
I love how conservatives are all of a sudden environmentalists when the topic of wind farms and the lithium batteries in electric cars are discussed
Ango-Globlogian t1_j9ytgb3 wrote
B A S E D
thank you for your service
Jason_Was_Here t1_ja0a0fi wrote
I don’t get how sonar would kill a whale. Are they saying that it’s disruptive to their ability to tell where they’re going and they beach themselves? Or are they claiming it’s directly killing them and then they wash up?
mattemer t1_ja33kho wrote
Option a
tyler4hannah t1_ja0hysz wrote
Christie on the beach would have made this post perfect.
OkSwitch470 t1_ja1mbhi wrote
There’s a direct correlation of an increase of beached whales when Christie is present at the beach during mating season
sucking_at_life023 t1_ja2l6kr wrote
That's pretty hot, but I can't finish unless I know who's getting penetrated.
jarrettbrown t1_j9yhbtt wrote
I've been saying for a while now that it's plausible (I use the Mythbusters scale here that goes busted-plausible-confirmed), but there's something else besides the sonar that's killing them. Some woman who's an artist based in South Jersey keeps posting this article and while it makes sense, there's a lot more that doesn't right now. If the sonar is scaring the whales, then what's killing them? Not the sonar itself, that's for sure. Either they're running into something or it's something else.
seancoffey37 t1_j9yhv5m wrote
Especially since the sonar that's supposedly scaring them has been used for decades by many larger boats
jarrettbrown t1_j9yk0i7 wrote
Pretty much. I've almost asked her if she's a marine biologist a few times, but I don't wanna start shit with people on a photo sharing app. But then again, she's just a shitty artist who has done some armchair research.
seancoffey37 t1_j9ykbhc wrote
I can relate to that. You just need to choose your battles sometimes.
HumanShadow t1_j9z9ixc wrote
Before everybody joined Facebook I used to think it was anti-social to post rants that might alienate people. I especially thought it was anti-social to antagonize my social network. Then everybody else joined Facebook and what I actually learned is people hate skeptics. And it's actually not socially acceptable to fact check people or doubt their posts. If only they realized that nobody really cares about each other on social media.
HumanShadow t1_j9z8umb wrote
Artists are passionate people but few are analytical.
jarrettbrown t1_j9zcthb wrote
This is 100% true about this woman.
Wandego t1_j9yjaxi wrote
Sonar affects whale hearing which they use for navigation. Powerful sonar (there are differences in the frequency and volume) has been proven to kill whales. All man-made ocean sounds affect whale behavior, but I agree that more evidence is needed to prove the current activities are related to whale deaths.
I do believe the most vocal parties in NJ are doing it for selfish, provincial reasons and not any genuine care for the earth or wildlife.
jarrettbrown t1_j9ykr97 wrote
Oh totally. This article come up during one of my searches and I kinda knew this already (I forget how, but I read something similar a while ago), but there's other things that are probably involved in this. Example: if the sonar is scaring the whales, what are they running into?
Wandego t1_j9yqk5h wrote
Whales use sound to navigate so the extra loud sonar blinds and scares them. They swim to get away and end up on the beach or maybe have lingering physical damage causing distress and eventually death. I don’t know if this is the case with the sonar mapping here, but I’m hoping the marine biologists are looking into it.
I am not a marine biologist, but I think of it this way: Imagine you are walking outside, minding your own fucking business, and are suddenly accosted by a sound so loud it bursts your ear drums and blinds you. You would run to get away from the sound, but being unable to use your ears or eyes to navigate your escape, you could run into traffic or off a cliff, or some other dangerous situation.
SuperAlloy t1_ja0ywz4 wrote
Bird flu. It's already jumped to seals. That's my wild ass guess at least.
Sloppy-Zen t1_j9yu7pw wrote
Sorry, the dead whales are from me needing the oil to fill my lamps. My bad.
HungFuPanPan t1_ja0zbai wrote
Doesn’t the UK have a lot of offshore wind turbines? How did the sea floor mapping effect marine life there? I don’t remember there being an issue. Also, from what I understand the method used for this sea floor mapping is the same as for oil and natural gas, only less powerful. So why not protest sonar sea floor mapping in general if that’s what these people believe is harming the marine life?
Hand_Sanitizer3000 t1_ja2r55b wrote
After infectious disease and geopolitics experts, conservatives are now experts in marine biology too?? Is there anything they cant master with the power of the lords prayer??
possible_contusion t1_ja0u5pi wrote
naval sonar maybe. not anything for wind farms. I'm sure they are trying to conflate the 2 in some outstanding oil business bullshit.
wildcarde815 t1_ja1eh9n wrote
Is there some sort of concerted push for this bullshit, I got a message from a person I know and rarely ever talk to about this out of the blue the other day.
Jurodan t1_j9z9q1i wrote
My aunt and I talked about this yesterday, and someone sitting nearby brought up that point. I was a bit surprised, not knowing one way or the other, but I had a moment of appreciation that, if it were sonar, it would end once the sonar recordings were finished. Oh well.
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BoomTownRat71 t1_j9zf80r wrote
The off shore turbines will create amazing reef life and bring pelagic gamefish closer onshore.
scooterbike1968 t1_j9zs815 wrote
Well, it’s something. I’m not sold on the wind farms. It is not the first of its kind and this has not happened.
My money: Russian nuclear subs with shitty sonar tech that fucks up these amazing creatures.
hiltonke t1_j9zvn5l wrote
It’s all the NIMBY people that support the fake news. They live on LBI and decimated the wildlife on it in order to live on a beach then want to turn around and say that wind turbines 30 miles out are gonna stop people from visiting and gonna kill the whales. Absolute trashy people.
tucker_frump t1_ja09hsr wrote
Actually it has been more blunt force trauma on the last four or five that have washed ashore..
Big container ship plows through a pod hits a few, they catch the tide in.
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Cejayem t1_ja1616v wrote
Maybe it isn't the future ocean wind farms, but the current ocean oil farms
NativeInc t1_ja25rmr wrote
Nah we just dont care.
SocialistCoconut t1_ja2gpjn wrote
Try that grift with the Chuckle Fucks down South
mattemer t1_ja3432x wrote
I don't know enough to claim it is ALL bullshit, but I know enough to NOT believe the people yelling the loudest know the right answer. Plus when you look into some of them, suddenly the far right cares about the environment? Please.
I wish we could say "yet let's give it a couple more months of SOLID research with actual scientists" but a couple months will turn into forever ban if that happens.
Also, some of these whales had physical injuries likely from boats, haven't they?
For all we know, there's more subs off the coast now too and maybe they are responsible, between engines and sonar.
Has this happened anywhere else in the world near wind farms?
This grabbing your pitchforks thing is really below us.
whaler76 t1_j9yod4q wrote
People should be more pissed off that it’s being built by foreign companies
HotNatured t1_ja0zjzq wrote
US wind is significantly driven by tax equity (which the IRA will really throw into overdrive). These foreign companies have to meet various requirements, e.g., local content percentages, to take advantage thereof. In this respect, the US has actually done really well to secure the lion's share of the economic gain from these projects. The EU has criticized the IRA, for instance, as overly protectionist when it comes to wind energy.
Given how volatile the US market is (even though there are big projects and volumes), it just hasn't been conducive to a market with thriving American OEMs. GE renewables is sink-or-swim based on the US market...
New_Stats OP t1_ja0a79d wrote
God damned Danes, coming over here taking our jobs! Next thing you know they'll be invading with their longships, taking over territory, and establishing the five boroughs
aden_feifdom t1_ja2qwnb wrote
this is clearly a very emotional topic reading the comments. sheesh.
Maleficent_Kale7442 t1_jadygy8 wrote
NOAA gave 'permission' for Ocean Wind (the developer) to incidentally kill marine mammals for 5 years during the construction of the project. When the project is complete, whales will prob be OK, (thats when they'll start killing birds).
"The requested ITR would govern the authorization of take, by both Level A
and Level B harassment, of small numbers of marine mammals over
a 5-year period incidental to construction-related pile driving
activities (impact and vibratory), potential unexploded ordnances or
munitions and explosives of concern detonation, and high-resolution
geophysical (HRG) site characterization surveys conducted by Ocean Wind
in Federal and State waters off of New Jersey for the Ocean Wind 1
offshore wind energy facility"
Maleficent_Kale7442 t1_jae0949 wrote
>And the surveys include sonar, seismic and echosounder technologies which can certainly interfere with whales and dolphins.
Bogart_The_Bong t1_j9yokuu wrote
Funny story. The increased beachings of migrating oceanic creatures will continue as Earth's magnetic pole continues to to move off spin axis (the axis of the planet as it spins). At present the magnetic pole and the axis of the planet diverge by almost 24° - not good considering the magnetic makeup of Earth (a LOT of iron).
Of course we all have our fingers crossed that the past 40 years of apparently instability and movement will right itself back to within ≈10° of axial spin, but so far it doesn't seem to be doing what we'd like it to. Not to say this indicates a pole reversal which would be drastic even with GPS systems in place for navigation ^*1, but because science is working with incomplete data planetology... well, bad, missing and misinterpreted data... and have NO idea of how this phenomena occurs. Reversal seems to occur cyclically.
So no Frank - it's not Q-ball related fantasy/idiocy... it's something even more sinister than their idiotic rantings - it's the natural order of things making sure no one species gets too damn comfortable living on this rock.
Funny story. Do you remember when GPS became THE thing - get as many satellites into orbit for navigation purposes as quickly as possible? That all precipitated upon discovery of magnetic 'movement' in the Earth's pole magnet.
HumanShadow t1_j9z8a0w wrote
Executives at Fox News must be impressed that their audience not only believe everything they tell them, but they want to believe partisan and cynical bullshit. They could probably turn them against bathing if they wanted. Their audience doesn't think their shit stinks so it's actually possible.
Bogart_The_Bong t1_j9za8qe wrote
Accurate. I used to put it off to their ignorance but their continued efforts to stubbornly remain ignorant tells me this is stupidity.
And we can't fix stupid.
HumanShadow t1_ja042if wrote
Our parents and grandparents are all rage addicts now.
-underdog- t1_j9z6dxx wrote
wait sonar has actually been shown to be dangerous to whales...
New_Stats OP t1_j9zm4kb wrote
you're thinking of military sonar. This is not that
​
>But not all sound generated by human activity and high-resolution geophysical surveys can be heard by large whales like humpbacks, who hear in lower frequencies than other species, Staaterman said.
In addition, no whale strandings have ever been documented from offshore wind development noise, said Benjamin Laws, deputy chief for the permits and conservation division at NOAA's Fisheries Office of Protected Resources.
-underdog- t1_j9zm8uv wrote
thank you, I had heard of this in there context of navy sonar but didn't know there was a difference
Altruistic_Ad884 t1_ja2t9dn wrote
Wow, I’m saddened by so many of these comments. Saving the whales and dolphins and all the other marine life is extremely important to many people, not rich people.
This looks like an education lesson for the rest of the state that has not grown up and been raised on the New Jersey shore.
Many people live on Long Beach island and Manahawkin ALL year long. We work here, have families here, our own way of life. “Rich” people from New York (you guys suck) and northern New Jersey come here for a week out of the summer and trash our environment. Those people are not putting up banners about saving whales because their beach view might get ruined.
No you dipshits, it’s the people that live here and love this area. It’s the people who surf all year, ride their jeeps into the pines and fish in the winter.
You can argue over who is killing the whales but I’ll assure you, someone is and they don’t care if they kill you too.
Technical-Car t1_jadu2wh wrote
Who is surfing the whole year? Tone down that attitude. Just because You’re online doesn’t mean you can be rude.
Glad_Illustrator_710 t1_j9zbfjb wrote
Who’s an idiot. What would you like us to do about it? If you feel so entitled to go do something please feel free. 😒🙄
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midnitte t1_j9yvyfd wrote
If having to squint and focus your vision on something ruins your trip, then by all means, leave LBI for the rest of us.
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Electronic_Chard_270 t1_j9yzmph wrote
You mean the windmills that will be barely visible?
beeeps-n-booops t1_j9z81pn wrote
> They would 100% spoil my trip to LBI
Awww, poor little snowflake.
homeworld t1_j9z5d04 wrote
Would you prefer seeing oil rigs?
BorneFree t1_j9z67bu wrote
When carbon emissions continue to cause the earth to warm and LBI is submerged by increasing water levels you won't have that issue!
gritty_rox t1_j9z1urx wrote
That would really ruin your trip? Lol jfc
brssnj93 t1_ja04fkv wrote
Windmills are some of the worst forms of sustainable renewable power. I’m against this for that reason alone, but there’s also real environmental costs with windmills that shouldn’t be ignored.
rossc007 t1_ja0ecww wrote
Well if you don't want us to ignore them you should tell us what they are!
Simple-Television-27 t1_j9zb8xs wrote
Should we build wind turbines? Absolutely. Is the increase in whale deaths attributable to the sonar mapping? Absolutely. It’s amazing what someone will believe if they want to.
mdp300 t1_j9zcpk7 wrote
>Is the increase in whale deaths attributable to the sonar mapping? Absolutely.
It's a little early to say absolutely.
Simple-Television-27 t1_j9zi197 wrote
It is though. It’s accepted as fact by marine biologists, politicians, etc. They’ll conclude their study once the turbines are up and running.
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the_last_carfighter t1_j9yb4ma wrote
So i just saw a political comic while in South Jersey that had something along these lines, I too didn't quite get it either, but putting it together it seems that once again "they" are "framing it" that it's the green initiatives that are the real danger to the environment. Oil companies and their voluntary boot licking shills have no bottom in terms of deceit and irony.
Duamerthrax t1_j9ydbz1 wrote
Like the people I know who suddenly cared about climate change when fox misreported a study and tried to claim wind turbines cause global warming.
weaselpoopcoffee1 t1_j9yf9v1 wrote
Exactly. A friend of my wife's has never recycled a single thing but she's on this whale thing like nobody's business.
HumanShadow t1_j9z8ip8 wrote
Does your friends wife have anything going on in her life?
HumanShadow t1_j9z8fz3 wrote
They love bad faith arguments. That's why they delighted in saying, "my body my choice" during their anti-mask temper tantrums.
Duamerthrax t1_j9zpj00 wrote
They think they're clever by pointing out a hypocrisy, but nobody they'll telling that too has any trouble differentiating between somethings that's airborne contagious and something that isn't.
The people who were complaining about wind turbines to be actually believed the BS. They floundered when I pressed them to explain how an wind driven electrician generator was supposed make more heat then a coal/NG driven electrician generator.
mdp300 t1_j9yh3pk wrote
I know a guy who runs a Facebook group where he reposts right wing BS, pretending it's actual analysis. I'm almost positive he gets paid by some PAC to do it, because he's posted from some Koch Foundation event where he got an award for being the best astroturfer, or something.
Anyway, he suddenly cares about the whales, too. It's hilarious how transparent it really is.
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alkaliphiles t1_j9yda5d wrote
Is this what all the "Save the Whales" signs are about on LBI?