Speeding Ticket on Turnpike issued to car owner. What can be done about it?

Submitted by Jerseysure35 t3_11b0bn9 in newjersey

I own a car and lent it to a family member. The family member got pulled over and handed a speeding ticket on the NJ Turnpike by State police. It says 1-9 mph over speed limit. Even though I wasn’t even in the vehicle, it has my name, address, and drivers license on the ticket. So I assume the fine and points would go to my DL if I follow through with admitting to this offense.

I would greatly appreciate any input regarding if the car owner is really held responsible (when it says the owner’s info on the ticket), even though the officer took the DL from the actual driver at the time of citation.

Also, if people can please share any advice/ experience with getting speeding tickets dropped to 0 point violations or dismissed completely.

I’m really worried and have never gotten a traffic ticket before. Thank you

EDIT: My friend recommended hiring a traffic lawyar to drop it down to a 0-point and more expensive ticket. But, he paid $500 for the lawyar and also I think $200 for the “downgraded” offense fine. Have any of you had success lowering the points of a traffic violation without using a lawyer?

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mike268 t1_j9vaxmk wrote

NJ Police Officer here, you are not getting the full story from the driver. The only time a ticket is issued against the registered owner is if there is no driver at the time of the ticket (hit an run type) or someone impersonated you.

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op00to t1_j9vgbw0 wrote

You don't have to be trained as a police officer to see what happened! Oh boy.

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encouragingSN t1_j9x4osf wrote

Isn't it possible the police officer simply made a mistake when writing the ticket?

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Maximum-Excitement58 t1_j9y991u wrote

How did he get the owner’s driver’s license info?

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mike268 t1_j9ygeys wrote

It is right on your physical registration as well as when you look up the license plate in the computer database

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beeeps-n-booops t1_j9z6qeq wrote

> It is right on your physical registration

I was about to jump in and say "your license plate number is there, but not your drivers license number"... and then I took a look.

Well, I'll be... it sure is. Never noticed that.

But now I'm questioning why... can you not register a vehicle if you don't have a license? Perhaps I own the car, but bought it so my SO / kid / other can drive?

Just seems weird to me to put the DL# on there. Registering a car and driving (in general) are two different things...

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op00to t1_j9yb8uj wrote

Maybe /u/mike268 can pop in, but I can imagine that when the officer goes into the computer to write the ticket, if the driver doesn't have a drivers license to scan/enter, you can probably automatically fill the ticket with the registered owner's information. Save the officer some time and risk of entering wrong information.

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mike268 t1_j9ygkor wrote

The automatic ticket machines populate when you scan the code from the driver’s license.

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op00to t1_j9z1ii1 wrote

Oh, thank you! How much enjoyment do you get out of seeing peoples wild theories about what the little computer can do? :)

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beeeps-n-booops t1_j9z70q4 wrote

If OP wasn't in the car to hand over their license, how might their license# have gotten on the ticket? Even though it's on the registration, sounds like the officer would've had to have manually changed it from what was scanned, no?

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Hefty-Couple-6497 t1_j9x7zqb wrote

NJ civilian here, you are correct, there’s 3 sides to every story mine, his/her (them/they?) and the truth

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Impressive-Box7983 t1_j9y6wan wrote

I actually got a seatbelt ticket with some random person from New York listed. It was on GSP near Red Bank. The department does make mistakes

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EvLib t1_j9v9nz8 wrote

I would suggest getting a real good understanding of what truly happened. Speeding tickets are not issued against a car, they are issued against a driver. Also, NJ State Police don't ordinarily pull somebody over for 0-9mph over the limit.

If the family member impersonated you (giving your or saying they were you, but forgot their license) pursuing your defense could get them in serious trouble. I would strongly suggest getting a firm sense of what happened and retaining an attorney to help you through the process.

Otherwise negotiating a speeding ticket, especially such a minor one, is typically as easy as it can get.

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Jerseysure35 OP t1_j9vafxo wrote

Thanks for your reply. I’ll clarify with the family member that they actually handed over their driver’s license and weren’t impersonating me.

You mentioned that it should be easy to negotiate this minor ticket. What would I say; I didn’t do it, but I’d settle for a parking ticket? Or just show my clock-in at work that proves I was working, not driving?

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SnooWords4839 t1_j9vmpdv wrote

They are lying to you!!

Your info would not be as the driver, without them handing your info to them! Very suspect!

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IronSeagull t1_j9w5lxn wrote

> I’ll clarify with the family member that they actually handed over their driver’s license and weren’t impersonating me.

And when they double down on their lie, you should tell them that obviously it shouldn't be a problem for you to go into court and say they were driving the car, because obviously the police already know that. Hopefully you have some proof they borrowed the car. And never let them drive your car again.

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op00to t1_j9vgi78 wrote

You being able to show you were at work at the time, perhaps with an affadavit from your manager that you didn't leave the property from x to y time should get the ticket thrown out.

Also lol to whatever cop obviously fucked up!

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peter-doubt t1_j9vyiyu wrote

The legal fees should be paid by the driver who earned the ticket. I hope your fears aren't parenting skills catching up to you.

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JerseyWiseguy t1_j9v7qb5 wrote

That's wrong. They have to prove it was actually you that committed the offense--I beat a ticket like that before, for that reason. Take it to court. You don't even need an attorney. Just let them present their case and prove that you were operating the vehicle and committed the offense. Or, speak to the prosecutor just before the trial, and he may just drop it anyway.

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Jerseysure35 OP t1_j9vbat6 wrote

Thanks for sharing. I assume all of the court cases are still on zoom? Would I be able to go to a breakout room with the prosecutor?

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JerseyWiseguy t1_j9vcbhd wrote

I have no idea. The ticket I mentioned was years ago, before Zoom was even created (though the legal principles are still the same). Hopefully, someone else here can advise you, in that regard. And, of course, you can always try calling the local prosecutor's office before the court date.

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HumbertFG t1_j9xqo1f wrote

Gonna weigh in here and add my experience.

Don't even talk to the prosecutor. They are NOT on your side. Whatever he tries to 'bargain it down to' is NOT in your favour. If you are not guilty, plead NOT GUILTY.

If he asks you WHY you are pleading not guilty, you don't have to say anything, or give him anything. He's fishing for HIS CASE. He *knows* if he's got a case or not, and if he DOESN"T, then he'll try to knock you down to something which is 'technically' a win for him ( you pled guilty to a lesser offense). He doesn't want to plead a case he knows he can't win, but also.. he doesn't want a pile of tickets which were dismissed at court, 'cos that just looks bad for the police.

I've had a couple of 'scumbag prosecutors' try this tactic, even getting loud and offensive up in my face. Be aware that if you are confident in your case, and I think you are. You can either refuse to talk to him - and he might simply drop it before it even comes up, 'cos he KNOWS he's gonna fail, or he's gonna know something's up.

DO NOT 'settle for a parking ticket' or whatever it is you figure is okay. If you didn't do the offense, then it'll get sorted and you'll get off.

Know what you did.. what your defense is. If you're nervous, practice with a friend. Take a friend to court with you who's got experience. It's mostly just nerves.. and once you've done it once or have someone behind you with experience it's not that bad.

Experience:

I once got pulled over for 'failing to signal left on a left turn'.

I know I signalled left. I heard the clicky thing in my car. I was sat there for a good couple of minutes. The indicator was going flashy flashy!. After having provided all my documentation I discovered that I had an indicator light out at the back ( the front was fine, just the back one). Since the policeman was behind me, he couldn't see my front, only the non-working back. I demonstrated this at the time for the officer. He could *see* that when I pressed my indicator the front worked.. the back didn't. Water in the light shorted it out or something.

Now, on the ticket there's :

Failure to indicate ( 2 points, $130 fine)

Non-working indicator ( 0 points, $50 fine)

numbers are from memory and possibly wrong, but the point is - one carried points, one didn't. Officer, at the scene *COULD* have ammended his ticket to 'Non-working indicator' and I'd have just been : "Yup.. okay. " paid it via mail and been done. But since I got the 'Failure to indicate" with points attached, I HAD to turn up in court.

Did just that.. Pled 'NOT GUILTY". I wasn't guilty.. I was guilty of having a non-working indicator. But I *DID* indicate, and at the stop demonstrated exactly that.

Prosecutor asks me : Why are you pleading not guilty! You're clearly guilty.. Copper says you're guilty. Seemed offended that I would even contest it.

I'm like : Because I'm NOT GUILTY.

He gets up in my face and demand that I give him my defence! Tells me all kinds of bullshit which frankly.. should have gotten HIM in trouble like 'We can take your license. We can increase the fine if you plead not guilty and you are.. etc etc etc.'

Practically went purple in the face trying to force my defence out of me *before my appearance*. I suspect his copper didn't want to be there ( they get paid overtime for attending traffic court and if the ticket is dimissed it looks really bad for them). Maybe the copper actually wasn't there at the time, and would needed to have gotten pulled in from his shift-work or called in from home. I don't know...

Either way - prosecutor will do his best to barter you down to a lesser offense you will plead guilty to, even if you're NOT GUILTY of the offense on the ticket.

The ONLY time it's beneficial to talk to a prosecutor is when you know you're guilty, and prosecutor doesn't have his officer in court that day, doesn't want to get him in and is happy to barter you down to a lesser offense you'll capitulate to so he doesn't have to pull him in.

My case: Officer was present. I pled my case... Judge asked officer "Did the gentleman demonstrate his working indicator to you at the stop? Yes. Were you behind him and unable to see his front indicator? Yes'. Why did you not mark it as 'Non-working indicator' instead of 'Failure to signal?": I had already written the ticket.

Case dismissed.

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arschloch57 t1_j9vzcvj wrote

Can you request police video showing it wasn’t you, for additional evidence?

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Starboard44 t1_j9wwrqo wrote

Yes. You can request police camera in all cases. This is likely the first thing an attorney would do.

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Bridge_Of_Bones t1_j9vwl3i wrote

Could’ve just been a mistake..auto-populated the ticket with the registered owner info instead of the driver.

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brokerceej t1_j9vye66 wrote

This seems like a way more reasonable explanation than impersonation.

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Bridge_Of_Bones t1_j9vzpvs wrote

Yeah this ain’t a grand conspiracy..licenses and plates are run on one system and populated into the ticketing software. Defaults to the registered owner and has to be manually changed for other drivers. Trooper was prob at the end of shift and made a mistake. Especially if they have the same last name, age etc..it happens.

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MartinLanius t1_j9wnwcc wrote

FOIA request the body can footage

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coooourtie t1_j9vupdr wrote

I'm assuming that something is off here because wouldn't your friend get the ticket because he/she was driving the car at the time? Feels like we're missing some info here.

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hopopo t1_j9vvyfg wrote

Be careful, recently I paid the lawyer to downgrade the ticket. What he did is made a barging where they would suspend 2 point ticket, but if I make any moving violation over the 5 year period I will automatically get 5 points plus whatever that new violation is.

Bastard screw me over royally.

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BigBusinessBureau t1_j9w3jwf wrote

That’s seriously anxiety inducing every time you have to drive

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op00to t1_j9ybetf wrote

Nah, just don't drive like an asshole.

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STMIHA t1_j9wyupl wrote

That sounds like a careless driving downgrade. It’s a catch 22 as you pay a little more to get no points to save you the insurance bump. Memory serves me it was a 3 year window though with no moving violations and if you mess up the original points come back and getter added to the new violation. not an inflation of the previous points. Something sounds off here.

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makerblue t1_j9vfhjb wrote

r/legal might have some good advice on this

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PushToTransmit t1_j9ysoil wrote

I am 90% sure this is an e-ticket mistake. The officer likely auto-populated the registered owner information and forgot to populate the driver. Let the officer know (his name/office is on the ticket) and he will re-issue the summons to the correct driver.

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HumbertFG t1_j9xoxzh wrote

Hi... I may have experience [with this kind of thing] :)

I'll just say that in my 20 year or so living in NJ, I've gotten in the region of 14 tickets. Most of those were in the first 4 years, but the most recent was perhaps 4 years ago.

I've 'gotten off' every single one. Some were *actual* infringements ( speeding down the parkway, driving with busted tail light). Some were bullshit tickets ( failed to indicate left when turning, erratic behaviour ie: Driving wi' long hair) and so on.

My advice is : Don't be intimidated. Don't be scared. Goto court...

Traffic court in NJ is *your friend*. Honest to god. They're open after hours, meaning you can go after work. The judges are almost universally on YOUR side, not the coppers. And if you present a cogent and compelling argument will always either 'let you off' or negiotiate with the copper for a lesser sentence.

Even if you turn up and are just like : yeah, 'guv.. I was speeding. I was [late for concert / worried about my Mom / trying to pass the a**hole from PA who was sittin' in the left lane doing the speed limit] - they'll often knock it down to something that has no points and a reduced fine.

"Getting off" in this case can simply be getting your ticket knocked down to something that doesn't involve points. If you have no points on your license. They *know* that it's the first lot o' points which get you.. and will often work with you to prevent it.

That said? YOUR case sounds like a slam dunk. Turn up, declare 'Not guilty'. DON'T fold to the jerk of a DA who'll try to get you to capitulate to a lesser ticket, since you ARE not guilty, and they are gonna have a hell of a time proving it.

Take your turn at the podium, declare 'Not Guilty, your honour' when asked. Present your case "I were at my girlfriend's at the time, guv. Copper ain't got a leg to stand on. Demand evidence... Demand cam footage, or whatever. Bring an alibi if you have one.

Judge will ask copper for corroborating evidence ( if he even turns up, if he doesn't - which has happened to me in like 4 cases it's just summarily dismissed). If he can't provide it, it's a 'your word against his word' and contrary to regular court, traffic court ( in my experience) tends towards the victim, not the officer.

You'd be surprised what *just turning up* can do for you too. I've turned up, pled GUILTY to the actual offense, offered mitigating circumstances and 'gotten off'. Example :

Dead of winter, it was raining / sleet and I was driving (safely) down an incline at 3AM with a set of traffic lights halfway down the hill with no traffic in sight anywhere for miles except for a truck behind me. Truck did NOT appear to be slowing.. I was slowing for the light.. truck still barrelling down the road behind me. Given weather conditions, the speed of the truck, and the closing distance, I opted to run the red light - for fear of being mashed by said truck.

Copper parked in the strip mall opposite pulls me over for 'running red light'. Technically true, but "I had reasons". Turned up in court, pled my case, looks at ticket - see's 3AM on ticket, see's road, see's date of ticket (mid-winter), confirms with copper. Let me off. Scott free.. nothing.. nada.

Soo.. REALLY LONG story is basically: Goto court. Don't be scared. Maybe bring someone with you who's familiar with the process, but you don't need to be spending $500 on lawyers.
I have been to court wi' several neices as a 'helping hand' and every time I've done that they've also gotten off or a reduced sentence.

G'luck!

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Nub_Shaft t1_j9ymq3m wrote

You don't need a lawyer to get it downgraded. You just tell the prosecutor that you want to plea to an amended charge of unsafe operation. Or just go to court with the family member. It should be pretty easy to clear it up. Then, have them plea to the amended charge.

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beeeps-n-booops t1_j9z5k97 wrote

How was your drivers license number on the ticket, if you weren't even in the car? Was your license in the car, and they handed yours over instead of theirs and the cop didn't notice?

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damageddude t1_j9wz285 wrote

Six of one, half a dozen of another. Paying an attorney to fight this may be more costly than accepting the zero point violation you can bargain down to (but pay a higher fine). If you think there is enough evidence to show you weren’t behind the wheel, go for it. Just remember without additional evidence it is officer said/driver said.

Know when to hold them, know when to fold them.

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HumbertFG t1_j9xri1n wrote

OP says (s)he can provide 'clock in / out' documentation from work, so.. OP has both legs to stand on and officer has none.

It *should* be as simple as turning up to court, plead NOT GUILTY. Offer evidence of : I weren't no-where near the incident, 'guv", lent my car to a friend. Maybe.. politely suggest that officer left a default on the ticket, and didn't do dilgence. Judge should ask officer for corroborating evidence, for which he'll have none, and dismiss the case.

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op00to t1_j9ybkim wrote

This is where those $199 traffic court attorneys come in handy. For $199, instead of you, some rando going to the prosecutor, you can have his golf buddy make the ask instead. OP is obviously not guilty of that infraction.

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Mcswagins42 t1_j9vws8u wrote

There shouldn’t be any points associated with a minor traffic ticket

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IronSeagull t1_j9w64zv wrote

Pretty sure all moving violations have points, including this one. Things like expired registration/inspection don't have points.

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healthierlurker t1_j9w9joh wrote

I got 3 points for 80 in a 55.

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beeeps-n-booops t1_j9z5wln wrote

Interesting, since it goes 2 - 4 - 5. There is no speeding violation that incurs 3 points.

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