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moonpotatoes t1_ja90j1j wrote

Reply to comment by target_meet_arrow in Student charged after bullied New Jersey school girl takes her own life by r4816

To some extent I agree that kids need more help than punishment. But I also think that these kids are old enough to known right from wrong and gang attacking 1 girl is absolutely wrong. If this has happened to my daughter I would be out for blood.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja94kfr wrote

I would be too but I would be out for the blood of those responsible for the kids behavior. I consider parents and guardians (which would be the school) to be more responsible than teenagers.

If this was a one time thing then I would agree with you but this was a sustained thing and the adults didn't step up to stop it.

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Vividagger t1_ja96tee wrote

I disagree. I grew up and knew people who literally were pieces of shit regardless of how their parents tried to correct their behavior and instill values and morals in them. Some people are just shitty people; sometimes it’s their upbringing, sometimes, it’s just their personalities.

That being said, at 14 you know right from wrong. At least when I was 14, I was fully aware when I was doing something I wasn’t supposed to be doing.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja99ine wrote

>I grew up and knew people who literally were pieces of shit regardless of how their parents tried to correct their behavior and instill values and morals in them. Some people are just shitty people; sometimes it’s their upbringing, sometimes, it’s just their personalities.

Those kinds of people are a very very very small percentage of the population. We are talking about psychopaths and sociopaths. Those are exceptions not the rule. Everything else is poor upbringing (which is sometimes out of the parents control due to other factors). Personalities are developed. Humans are social animals that look to others to see how to behave. Humans raised without other humans aren't human at all and never learn to be. There are some genetic components to this but not to the degree that parents should be let off the hook (except for those exceptions).

The way kids were in the past doesn't excuse new resources and information. Kids are now being taught emotional regulation and coping skills, kindness, etc from early ages now.

And if your kid is still awful then you have a duty to protect others from them as best you can. If a kid is a psychopath or sociopath and they don't act then it's still on the parents.

>That being said, at 14 you know right from wrong

Yes, they know right from wrong. But teenagers don't have completely formed brains, understanding of consequences and don't always think rationally and more easily succumb to groupthink. So kids are more mature than others. They aren't blameless by any means but IMO the people with more blame are being punished less or not at all.

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Vividagger t1_ja9d087 wrote

Maybe we grew up in different environments, but I have known plenty of people who disregard anything and everything they are told, and do what they please, whether or not it is legal or socially acceptable, and these mentalities have followed them well into their adult lives. Some people just do not care, and that’s a fact.

Minors are humans, and humans have free will. A child has the free will to either listen to their parent, or not. I don’t think the parent should be responsible if their child ignored their warnings and instructions. Now if a parent allows it, enables it, or contributes towards those bad/illegal behaviors, that would be different. But you cannot hold someone responsible for someone else’s actions.

And for reference, I live in the most densely populated state in the US, so maybe I’ve just had more exposure to these types of people than others have, but I wouldn’t say that the “I’ll do whatever I want” mentality is rare.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja9ftij wrote

>Maybe we grew up in different environments,

These are universal things so it doesn't matter. Personalities are mainly learned.

>I have known plenty of people who disregard anything and everything they are told, and do what they please, whether or not it is legal or socially acceptable, and these mentalities have followed them well into their adult lives. Some people just do not care, and that’s a fact.

Those people were not born that way. Basically all of what we understand about human psychology and development backs this up. Kids don't care because they were raised not to. Often that wasn't the goal but some methods of "discipline" backfire and have opposite effects.

> A child has the free will to either listen to their parent, or not.

And the parents have the power to tip the scales in their favor and teach about consequences and choices. Free will isn't as free as people think. People need and desire things from others.

>I don’t think the parent should be responsible if their child ignored their warnings and instructions.

That depends on the situation IMO.

>But you cannot hold someone responsible for someone else’s actions.

Yes you can. Both morally and legally.

>I live in the most densely populated state in the US, so maybe I’ve just had more exposure to these types of people than others have, but I wouldn’t say that the “I’ll do whatever I want” mentality is rare.

We are in the NJ sub. We live in the same state.

>but I wouldn’t say that the “I’ll do whatever I want” mentality is rare.

Your exposure to those types of people doesn't tell you anything about their home life and upbringing. Therapy and counseling can help some of these people unlearn behaviors that were taught in childhood via poor negative or positive reinforcement. If you can learn something it was probably learned to begin with.

You will find no reputable psychologists that say that some people are just bad beyond edge cases like psychopaths and sociopaths. Empathy and kindness are skills that are taught and nurtured.

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