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BT8139 t1_ja8ozaa wrote

She wasn't bullied she was assaulted.

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lotusvagabond t1_ja8z1ww wrote

THANK YOU. We need to call it both to be fair but yes this was assault. And all adults directly and indirectly involved who did NOT take action should be charged with failing to protect a minor. remove their paid leave, and take away their jobs and benefits. You allow kids to be abused and assaulted by their peers under your watch? You have a fucking responsibility to these kids and what a disgrace of an admin to let this all build up. They deserve the fullest and harshest punishments.

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reddittrees2 t1_jaaf18c wrote

Looks like the current charge is "conspiracy to commit Aggravated Assault". This is a serious charge and an indictable offense.

She was actually the victim of something called 'Criminal Battery' and the charge should be under the Aggravated Assault Statute, N.J.S.A. 2C:12-1.

In NJ a charge of "Simple Assault" need only require a victim be in "imminent fear of battery". That means a person only need to fear being attacked by the accuse for a Simple Assault charge.

For a charge of 'Criminal Battery' a person must have "made physical contact with the person or an extension of that person (i.e. something he or she was holding, wearing, etc.)."

> N.J.S.A. 2C:12-1(b), to intentionally or recklessly cause bodily harm to another with or without a deadly weapon is considered battery and aggravated assault.

Ag Assault is a second degree crime in NJ and can carry a penalty of 10 years in prison and a $150,000 fine.

This sort of thing is why you will frequently hear the charge of "assault and battery" as the Simple Assault charge precedes the Criminal Battery charge. (Also different states will handle the two charges in different ways and they may appear under different names.)

Relevant Case Law: State v. Battle, State v. Bryant, State v. Holmes.

(Additionally there is a possibility that a charge of 'Strict Liability' may apply. This relates to the actions of one person indirectly and unintentionally causing among other things the death of another person by way of related actions.)

(The actual charging requirements under the relevant statutes are somewhat more complicated and include a long list of qualifying actions and specific situations. This was a the most basic of basic explanations of the legal issues surrounding this awful tragedy.)

To inject a personal opinion: This is by far from the first time this has happened and I do believe legislation needs to be advanced to consider this specific situation and also ones substantially similar under the Strict Liability statute and include updated mitigating or aggravating factors when considering what charge(s) to bring when a student(s) cause another student to end their own life due to the actions of another student(s).

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lotusvagabond t1_jae4ts9 wrote

I’m sorry it took me so long to see this reply but I very much appreciate you taking the time to elaborate for me everyone on this sub.

I definitely agree that we need change in our legislature to specifically hold these adults more accountable. It baffles me that the ADULTS are rarely held accountable for failing to protect a minor and allowing this to happen in high schools. My own experience was atrocious and when I was attacked the school always blamed me. I’m an adult and healed from that long ago but this story just broke my damn heart. When you work with minors you’re supposed to be held accountable for failing to report concerns for their safety. I just cannot fathom how this is thrown out the door in our high schools.

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BeamStop23 t1_ja92ql6 wrote

How did the superintendent allow her to get beat up. Seemed like security was swift and the school has no control over the Internet.

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xbnm t1_ja9xqbf wrote

If this assault was the first time she was mistreated by these kids, then you're right. But that is essentially never how it happens.

School can expel kids who don't stop torturing kids. They can contact child services and try to figure out why the bullies are lashing out so much, and whether intervention is needed there. School can confiscate phones during the day so that at least on school premises, at least the victim won't have to worry about being recorded.

But the most urgent thing is to separate bullies from their victims long term, hopefully by inconveniencing the bullies, not the victims, in that process. Clearly the school failed at that

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BeamStop23 t1_jaav861 wrote

  1. You are making a lot of assumptions. The father has never said she's been involved in multiple fights with this group at school if anything the opposite. His beef with the superintendent is that they suspended the bullies but he thinks if they were arrested somehow the student bystanders wouldn't have shared the videos.

  2. There's absolutely no way to ban cellphone use in schools short of having a prison like inspection system

  3. Everyone is or has been bullied. There's absolutely not enough money in the school system to manage what is thousands of teen students personal interactions both in person or online every single day including weekends. A typical prison is 4 to 1 staff. A highschool it's not uncommon to have 30-50 students per staff member. It's just literally impossible to handle. If the bully has developmental/aggression issues and is on a non-standard education (e.g IEP, 504, etc) they cannot be legally expelled. Other than that yes the students can be expelled and if your made-up theory that the same bully regularly assaulted her then they'd have been expelled. Even then she'd have just been bullied online which was actually the father's complaints. It wasn't the fight it was what was going on on social media. Truth is that if your child has a persistent bully, don't rely on the school it's not a daycare, or prison, and it's not a justice system. Seek retribution from law enforcement and a judge, you don't need an attorney to do this.

−1

charleswinesap t1_ja80u6x wrote

Superintendent resigned and gets 200k, im sorry, 186k a year until 2025. After resigning and blaming the victim and her father. Shameful shit

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pu1pfriction t1_ja838vo wrote

The same thing with the teacher shot down in Virginia. Superintendent got a 500k payout

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Free_Joty t1_ja92gtg wrote

Living the American dream. Totally incompetent and getting money for doing nothing

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garbagiodagr8 t1_jaac9tp wrote

People like this and those that help them are the main issues plauging this country. First ones to the guillotine

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heynow941 t1_ja819jg wrote

I feel horrible upvoting this story as if it’s something good, but the story needs to be known. Holy shit.

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Mini-salt t1_ja8jasn wrote

Honestly I'm just disappointed. It's been more than a decade since the start of some anti bullying initiatives I knew of and we seem to have fixed nothing.

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aden_feifdom t1_ja93005 wrote

i disagree, kids have it much better than previous generations thanks to bullying awareness and legislation. when i was a kid, no one cared.

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Horse_Dad t1_ja9v665 wrote

I will also disagree. When we were bullied as kids, it usually ended in the school yard. With social media today, kids can get bullied 24/7 and some of those things can live online forever, as was the case here. In a lot of ways, things are much worse. Add to that, schools are powerless to address things that happen outside of school and limited in how they address things that happen in school.

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mn_49ers t1_jaa0rj5 wrote

Really good point. Kids can’t escape it and schools don’t want/can’t police social media. But I’m glad they are charging the student.

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ahumanlikeyou t1_jaa1jya wrote

Social media for sure makes some cases worse, but overall it's so much better than it used to be

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ThatsNotFennel t1_jaad3zw wrote

In what way is it better overall? Give me one meaningful metric where kids today are safer today than they were 20 years ago.

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ahumanlikeyou t1_jaae598 wrote

HAHA! God, you clearly don't have a kid or are massively out of touch. In the 90s, we went through hell! "Gay' and 'retard' were slurs and we used them like oxygen. My kid now reports experiences that are miles beyond anything that could have happened in my day. Massive improvements. Huge amounts of social sensitivity, sensitivity to pronouns, sensitivity to eating disorders, stress, different financial situations. Being heavy or attractive are not as important as they used to be. Of course all of this stuff is also the subject of bullying, still. I'm not saying it's gone away. It still happens all the time. But it is SO much better than it used to be. If you think otherwise, you don't remember what we went through.

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ThatsNotFennel t1_jaahiji wrote

The wrong way for you to start your argument was 'HAHA!'

I'm going to assume everything after that is either a lie or hyperbole. Violence and bullying has gone up in our school district and in every district surrounding ours. Children have been hospitalized. A football game was cancelled due to a shooting threat.

Sure, it's all anecdotal - but that's the only thing I have going for me. I could care less about in-person name calling. Social media is creating a dangerous environment for children.

−1

ahumanlikeyou t1_jacg4mm wrote

Sorry, that was rude of me. I was just astonished that anyone could think there is absolutely no dimension in which bullying had improved

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Batchagaloop t1_ja9kjtm wrote

Agreed, as the great Bill Clinton once said "Follow the trend lines, not the headlines"

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Barbi3D0ll t1_ja9dz21 wrote

Personally, I disagree, as someone who gets/has been bullied I’ve been through a lot of heartless shit.

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smd908 t1_ja9o9f8 wrote

Everyone has.. there’s not one person on this earth who hasn’t or won’t be bullied at one point in their life.

0

Lyraxiana t1_ja92ixz wrote

Yeah, the policy was implemented, but it's not like people actually followed it.

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KayakHank t1_ja8omco wrote

I expected more from Melanias #beBest campaign

13

IncorrigibleDegen t1_jaacylu wrote

awareness is only the first step. awareness is useless without action. In this case, believing the bullied and stepping in way way before it hits this stage.

And that's only step 1 of like, 10 to truly "end bullying".

1

sagenumen t1_ja7ruxz wrote

Good. Bullies need consequences.

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gordonv t1_ja8g0d8 wrote

And not this "Zero Tolerance victims get punished too" nonsense.

We're not the Taliban.

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sagenumen t1_ja8kfq9 wrote

Yeah. That was always dumb as hell.

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BeamStop23 t1_jaawrdv wrote

it's the same premise as stand your ground

In the same way that the above simply leads to more people killing each other. Giving 13 year olds the responsibility on whether or not they should resort to violence just leads to more unnecessary violence. Zero tolerance reduces fighting in school and removes any accusations of racism, favoritism, bias, etc. No need to play judge and jury, etc. Everyone just goes home and gets time to chill out. If you have a bully and want to fight them that bad, take it off school grounds, or eat the suspension. Most students will recognize that it's not worth it and learn self control or how to handle a stressful situation nonviolently

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[deleted] t1_ja94zo1 wrote

[removed]

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sagenumen t1_ja97pba wrote

Who is gaining "clout" here?

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[deleted] t1_ja99rey wrote

[removed]

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sagenumen t1_ja9anr4 wrote

So, your contention is that the only reason people are talking about it here is for clout? And then I'm dumb for asking you to clarify that that is, indeed, your contention? Lol. Ok.

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gik223 t1_ja84shf wrote

The kid who recorded and posted the video online, leading to further harassment should also be punished

Reddit regularly posts videos of fights between kids, and some of these posts get to the frontpage. There should be rules against this.

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GTSBurner t1_ja86gtm wrote

How exactly is your reddit curated, because the only school fight videos I've see is usually to show overreactions by cops

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gik223 t1_ja88geq wrote

I just sort top posts on all. there was even a top post yesterday with 13K upvotes on r/fightporn of one student being labeled a bully and getting beaten by another student.

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Jennifer_glitter t1_ja8m5cf wrote

My son works with her Dad. Terrible something has too change for the sake of our children rest easy Adriana

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[deleted] t1_ja82gh8 wrote

[deleted]

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lost_in_life_34 t1_ja8g6uk wrote

there is a happy medium somewhere the school officials actually take action on the bullies

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Shishkebarbarian t1_ja8klio wrote

> actually take action on the bullies

this right here. if school enforcement is strong and willful, shit won't spiral out of control like this were you're talking criminal felony charges on a bunch of idiot 14 year olds.

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Ok-Company8510 t1_ja8nsey wrote

I wish we could live in a world where everything was taught and not forced.

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Ok-Company8510 t1_ja8njgn wrote

Maybe a class on how to deal with bullies somewhere between calculus and ww2?

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The_Healed t1_ja8t3w4 wrote

Maybe a class where bullies get the same shit they do, done to them. Testicle for an eye. Or however it goes

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Ok-Company8510 t1_ja8wgsn wrote

Tell em to pick themselves up by the bootstraps while they're at it.

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The_Healed t1_ja8wxss wrote

And go up the hill both ways in neck deep snow wearing only rags?

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BeamStop23 t1_ja93bm7 wrote

A school is an institute of learning. Outside of suspending or expelling students, that's the extent of there reach. Anything else is left to the criminal justice system. You are more than welcome to provide what else can be done besides removing the student that the school can do legally.

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beltalowda_oye t1_ja85iuf wrote

I mean... have you talked to anyone outside of reddit? It's not just reddit. A lot of people want the kids responsible for this hazing punished. And they're not wrong. Whether what the punishment is? That's where things get a bit tricky and people disagree.

Reddit also has gen z to boomers so depending on who youre talking to, you're gonna get completely differing opinions for certain topics.

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[deleted] t1_ja8bnb9 wrote

[deleted]

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beltalowda_oye t1_ja8pgrc wrote

Imo you need to be specific. As much as I want to be on the same page, I can't read your mind or preemptively know what you believe is something everyone should already know.

Let's review what you're talking about case by case. Which cases are we talking about and which punishments are the progressives? Then let's review the cases that highlight that double standard and see if there's a deeper context or indeed a bias in the way we approach judicial system. It should come as a surprise to no one that our justice system is not perfect and even the working parts can often shit the bed. But in this particular case is it wrong? I don't think so.

Who remembers Tyler Clementi? Pepperidge farm remembers.

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charleswinesap t1_ja8fbri wrote

Since you’re basing your view on this story of specific redditors you yourself dealt with your point can only be true.

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Shishkebarbarian t1_ja8kf7e wrote

i think anyone who spent any time on reddit reading social and criminal news stories can pick up on the reddit bias quite easily. butthurt genZs bitter at their country cause they can't get ahead. not saying some of the criticisms aren't valid, just that there is a heavy kumbaya bias

0

beltalowda_oye t1_ja8qapv wrote

Yeah I mean it's honestly just a social media platform. It reflects what people are saying and I honestly do feel like sometimes I'm talking to teens and angry brats but I've also talked to much older crowd on reddit. Regardless of how we might feel, I think the younger generations opinion on this matter because they're the ones living through it now or just went through it. The experience is fresher.

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charleswinesap t1_ja8mga7 wrote

Reddits not real, nor are we, chill

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Shishkebarbarian t1_ja8ncp9 wrote

i didn't mean to come off as angry or otherwise perturbed. like you said, it's reddit, it's just a forum for shooting shit with others.

i just wanted to add that the bias is clear and evident and isn't OP's case of only dealing with certain people

1

charleswinesap t1_ja8nphq wrote

Ah, true, ha thanks for the explanation I misunderstood.

Yeah OP was rich. I love stories that go I experienced this therefore this is happening. Well yes sir. Totally unfalsifiable, dudes go to war on beliefs like this, same as always i guess

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[deleted] t1_ja8qxuw wrote

[deleted]

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treadwells_gone t1_ja8uuge wrote

Yeah but its silly to suggest there isn't a heavily prevailing mindset among the users.

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[deleted] t1_ja90v5g wrote

[deleted]

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uplandsrep t1_jab1p4j wrote

Because it makes the people who want justice reform and by extension the whole effort, sound like it's strictly a flight of fancy, a passing fad, or just outright hypocritical.

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paleo2002 t1_ja8i4qu wrote

If our schools and healthcare system looked like Norway's, then we wouldn't have to worry about what style of prison system to put our children into.

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[deleted] t1_ja8p4cv wrote

[deleted]

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paleo2002 t1_ja8rnvv wrote

Didn't say anything about money. But . . .

In 2022, NJ spent $29.8 billion on K-12 schooling.

The most recent data I could get for Norway was 2020. They spent about 10% of their GDP on education. This amounts to about $36 billion.

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Jbach57 t1_ja8vs3m wrote

So a single state in the USA almost spent as much in education as the entire country of Norway?

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grand_speckle t1_ja8zo7i wrote

Yeah but in fairness this single state’s population nearly doubles Norway’s population

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iJayZen t1_ja9n8ck wrote

Thank education unions for this.

−3

internet-is-a-lie t1_ja8i6qi wrote

I’m not going to pretend I know what the appropriate punishment should be, but yeah, people acting like these girls should get life in prison is kind of crazy.

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kirstarry t1_ja8oovw wrote

I go to this school… the staff have always seemed to neglect our problems or go about it in the wrong way. My sisters have gone here too, and experienced the same things me and the students there now have. They haven’t changed their ways for years, and it took someone to die for them to finally do something. If they listened to Adriana and didn’t suspend her she could still be here. I don’t understand why they suspend the victim as well, she didn’t even fight back…

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Redplushie t1_jabqwgx wrote

Seems like the school I went to as a kid. They even put me in the same class the next semester as her once I had to escalate it to the counselor lmao

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BeamStop23 t1_ja956jh wrote

Because the school is not a jury. Zero tolerance didn't come from thin air, it came from students-parents arguing in regards to who is at-fault. Ultimately with it it leads to more violence and increased financial liability on the school. Better to have an unbiased white black rule that suspends both students. No claims about bias, racism, etc. If there are criminal or civil claims you can go get a judge and jury.

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GoodLt t1_ja9biwf wrote

>Because the school is not a jury

No. Punishing the victim along with the assailant is not justice, it's not fair, it's not moral, and it's not protecting anybody.

Find out who is the bully, and discipline them up to an including legal charges. Charge the parents if they try to stop it.

TEACH THE ASSAILANTS THAT THEY WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

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BeamStop23 t1_ja9haya wrote

This is one of those things that only makes sense in writing. Reality is that it's no different than if you got in a brawl at a bar, restaurant, etc. You don't get to come back inside like nothing happened. Your tab gets closed and you are kicked out. Not having the rule simply leads to more violence. It's the same reason why self defense castle doctrine states are linked to having MORE murders than not, and these are adult brains. You are suggesting that you have 14 year old brains deciding whether or not they are justified in commiting violence, with the idea they can argue along with their 50 year parent with also the same brain as a 14 year old that they shouldn't receive any consequences. For every justified self defense action will be multiple more needless violence.

−1

katgirrrl t1_ja91y9v wrote

I experienced some pretty severe bullying at school and even assault from a boy significantly larger than me in 5th grade. It really destroyed me, and I ended up dropping out in 9th grade between that and so many other shitty factors.

Now, as someone in my 30’s, I see why those kids were so fucked up. What I don’t understand is why time after time, the adults put in charge of us do nothing to help. Zero common sense. I was repeatedly punished at school because apparently zero tolerance means zero tolerance of being on the receiving end too. I can’t believe that nearly 20 years later, there’s still been no reform for this kind of shit.

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MisterMushbrain t1_ja8pzr3 wrote

I can't even consider what happened in that video bullying. It was straight up psychotic assault and those animals belong in cages.

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You_Are_All_Diseased t1_ja90n68 wrote

The superintendent should be charged for obstructing. Fuck that guy.

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AlienSpaceKoala t1_ja946p4 wrote

Exactly why was he covering for those kids….??

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KashEsq t1_jaadgrp wrote

Because he's an asshole. Either that or he tacitly supports this kind of bullying behavior.

I wouldn't be surprised if it came to light that he was a bully back when he was in school.

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Virtualsquib t1_ja9cot2 wrote

What about the adults who did nothing? Will they be charged?

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xvx613 t1_ja94q2w wrote

This story broke my heart. As someone that was bullied growing up and attempted the same fate, I wish she was still able to be here today.

For anyone ever having thoughts of suicide, please know it will get better my friends.

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SqualorTrawler t1_ja93e2q wrote

I don't know exactly what went wrong here, but things I have noticed over the years:

  • Parents can be completely blind about what little shits their children are. There is this endless association of children with innocence, and parents are sometimes incapable of believing their children could possibly be a bully. The more clueless parents are, the worse their kids can be. In particular, there seems to be a lackadaisical approach toward teaching children empathy. Whatever my parents failings, they would always ask me, "How do you think a person feels, when you say or do X." I am happy for this.

  • Parents may secretly be happy their children are bullies, when they regard the world as some kind of jungle and the only way they can conceptualize it is their children are either predators or prey and they have chosen to be predators.

Some of the things I have heard parents say are wild, and not entirely sane.

  • In my school in central New Jersey, bullying was viewed as "kids being kids" and treated with no seriousness at all. This was a few decades ago, but I remember really being confused as a kid, like, "Okay, well, is there something they want me to learn by being bullied? Is this a life lesson I need to reason my way out of?" Bullying is assault and cruelty, but the way administrators treated it, it was my problem, and my problem alone.

  • Bullies congregate in certain cliques and groups and certain school personnel who are tasked with supervising these groups (like coaches) seem unconcerned about their character of the students, or may openly encourage their behavior. In my high school, the wrestling team were all bullies. In my yearbook, one of them chose as their yearbook quote, a rant about how he didn't want gay people to become wrestlers.

  • Or, people make excuses for bullies. They themselves have a hard life, or something. Therefore you shouldn't be angry when they assault you. Or some shit.

  • My own father just got mad I didn't fight off the 3 or 4 people who would gang up on me at once. I was not a small kid.

What made me angry, is you have no choice but to go to school. You are legally compelled to enter these environments and have these experiences. You can't simply say "fuck this," and opt out.

I have a very dark view of humankind, and it hasn't abated in the decades since. I don't trust people, and this position of immediate distrust is regularly justified. No one picks on me now, but when people turn out to be really horrible and shitty, it doesn't surprise me. I expect it. I am surprised when someone isn't shitty.

Those experiences dampened an entire life. And in hindsight I'm less mad at the bullies, and more angry at the adults who create these environments and seem uninterested in what happens in them. That includes parents, teachers, and administrators.

That said, when I read the story about this girl a few weeks ago, in an involuntary way, my mind made up what this girl's antagonizers looked like, and I imagined strangling them with my bare hands. I just imagined crushing the life out of them. What I was feeling was pure hate, an emotion I do not relish and is not something I feel with any regularity. But that is what I felt.

I am middle aged.

I don't want to think about this anymore.

One thing it certainly did is make me look at the generation of "adults" who were in charge of the schools I went to and lose all respect for them. In a way, this has a positive upside. I am not nostalgic about the past - any past - and as I age, there has been no compulsion to resist progress, or to want to take shit out on the young. All of my disgust is targeted toward older generations, their moral failings, and their generalized incompetence.

I have to expend effort not to make this categorical, and to give individuals a chance. I expend that effort, but it doesn't come natural.

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GoodLt t1_ja9azmd wrote

I was bullied severely in elementary school by a few classmates, who also physically assaulted me on the regular, and the school didn't do jack shit about it.

Absolutely support charging anybody that bullies other people, and their parents should face consequences, too.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja8y1qj wrote

Kids are kids and they need more help than punishment. These kids have low emotional IQs. That can be helped and fixed in most cases. They deserve some punishment but these charges seem more like grandstanding than actual solutions, IMO. IMO they are the least responsible party because they are kids.

The school officials should be punished both legally and civilly. Some reports have stated that bullying had gone on for years. If they were aware then their negligence allowed for this. As the adults in charge of where some of this bullying took place they could have stopped some of it.

If the bullies' parents were aware (and if they weren't then it all falls on the school) then they should be charged too. Raise shitty kids and you should be responsible if there was something you could have done to correct their behavior. If someone told me my kid was a bully then we would go hard into therapy, anger management, conflict resolution, and I would monitor their online accounts until I could trust them to act right.

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moonpotatoes t1_ja90j1j wrote

To some extent I agree that kids need more help than punishment. But I also think that these kids are old enough to known right from wrong and gang attacking 1 girl is absolutely wrong. If this has happened to my daughter I would be out for blood.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja94kfr wrote

I would be too but I would be out for the blood of those responsible for the kids behavior. I consider parents and guardians (which would be the school) to be more responsible than teenagers.

If this was a one time thing then I would agree with you but this was a sustained thing and the adults didn't step up to stop it.

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Vividagger t1_ja96tee wrote

I disagree. I grew up and knew people who literally were pieces of shit regardless of how their parents tried to correct their behavior and instill values and morals in them. Some people are just shitty people; sometimes it’s their upbringing, sometimes, it’s just their personalities.

That being said, at 14 you know right from wrong. At least when I was 14, I was fully aware when I was doing something I wasn’t supposed to be doing.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja99ine wrote

>I grew up and knew people who literally were pieces of shit regardless of how their parents tried to correct their behavior and instill values and morals in them. Some people are just shitty people; sometimes it’s their upbringing, sometimes, it’s just their personalities.

Those kinds of people are a very very very small percentage of the population. We are talking about psychopaths and sociopaths. Those are exceptions not the rule. Everything else is poor upbringing (which is sometimes out of the parents control due to other factors). Personalities are developed. Humans are social animals that look to others to see how to behave. Humans raised without other humans aren't human at all and never learn to be. There are some genetic components to this but not to the degree that parents should be let off the hook (except for those exceptions).

The way kids were in the past doesn't excuse new resources and information. Kids are now being taught emotional regulation and coping skills, kindness, etc from early ages now.

And if your kid is still awful then you have a duty to protect others from them as best you can. If a kid is a psychopath or sociopath and they don't act then it's still on the parents.

>That being said, at 14 you know right from wrong

Yes, they know right from wrong. But teenagers don't have completely formed brains, understanding of consequences and don't always think rationally and more easily succumb to groupthink. So kids are more mature than others. They aren't blameless by any means but IMO the people with more blame are being punished less or not at all.

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Vividagger t1_ja9d087 wrote

Maybe we grew up in different environments, but I have known plenty of people who disregard anything and everything they are told, and do what they please, whether or not it is legal or socially acceptable, and these mentalities have followed them well into their adult lives. Some people just do not care, and that’s a fact.

Minors are humans, and humans have free will. A child has the free will to either listen to their parent, or not. I don’t think the parent should be responsible if their child ignored their warnings and instructions. Now if a parent allows it, enables it, or contributes towards those bad/illegal behaviors, that would be different. But you cannot hold someone responsible for someone else’s actions.

And for reference, I live in the most densely populated state in the US, so maybe I’ve just had more exposure to these types of people than others have, but I wouldn’t say that the “I’ll do whatever I want” mentality is rare.

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target_meet_arrow t1_ja9ftij wrote

>Maybe we grew up in different environments,

These are universal things so it doesn't matter. Personalities are mainly learned.

>I have known plenty of people who disregard anything and everything they are told, and do what they please, whether or not it is legal or socially acceptable, and these mentalities have followed them well into their adult lives. Some people just do not care, and that’s a fact.

Those people were not born that way. Basically all of what we understand about human psychology and development backs this up. Kids don't care because they were raised not to. Often that wasn't the goal but some methods of "discipline" backfire and have opposite effects.

> A child has the free will to either listen to their parent, or not.

And the parents have the power to tip the scales in their favor and teach about consequences and choices. Free will isn't as free as people think. People need and desire things from others.

>I don’t think the parent should be responsible if their child ignored their warnings and instructions.

That depends on the situation IMO.

>But you cannot hold someone responsible for someone else’s actions.

Yes you can. Both morally and legally.

>I live in the most densely populated state in the US, so maybe I’ve just had more exposure to these types of people than others have, but I wouldn’t say that the “I’ll do whatever I want” mentality is rare.

We are in the NJ sub. We live in the same state.

>but I wouldn’t say that the “I’ll do whatever I want” mentality is rare.

Your exposure to those types of people doesn't tell you anything about their home life and upbringing. Therapy and counseling can help some of these people unlearn behaviors that were taught in childhood via poor negative or positive reinforcement. If you can learn something it was probably learned to begin with.

You will find no reputable psychologists that say that some people are just bad beyond edge cases like psychopaths and sociopaths. Empathy and kindness are skills that are taught and nurtured.

5

blumpkin_donuts t1_ja8oewd wrote

Bullying should be addressed hand in hand with CPA. 9.9 out of 10 times bullying is systemic of individuals not raising a kid properly.

4

MrFrode t1_ja9c9it wrote

I too support holding children accountable for the repercussions of their actions while holding blameless the teachers and administrators who have a duty of care.

Because this makes total sense.....

3

TerryMotta t1_ja9dhvw wrote

What's with the Australian news article?

3

Batchagaloop t1_ja9n33c wrote

Crazy that this is a global news story

6

ADarwinAward t1_ja9s377 wrote

Although bullying and school fights and schools deaths are common, children committing suicide after being jumped by a group of kids that initially did not get any criminal punishment is not that common. This is the exact kind of story that’s going to make international news.

3

TerryMotta t1_jaabnya wrote

I mean more so that you'd expect the article to come from NJ com or something.

2

ceerealmilk t1_jaahc95 wrote

How devastating for her friends and family. Just want to comment to say any amount of slander of the school or administrators won’t change that this young girl is now tragically gone. Anger makes sense but I hope we can all use that to enact change and treat people with compassion, not go online and write comments spewing more hate at the people we wish did more. We’re all human, we all make mistakes and unfortunately the administration will have to deal with the heavy emotional effect this leaves. I hope we can change the way we publicly speak on tragedies.

2

beeeps-n-booops t1_jaavj5k wrote

ALL bullies should be charged.

And ALL the adults who enable and/or turn a blind eye to the bullying.

2

Full-Mulberry5018 t1_ja8xz69 wrote

Good! I hope they spare these subhuman, inhumane individuals no mercy at their sentencing

1

BakedPastaParty t1_jaae7ok wrote

Wooooooooooooooooooow this is fucking crazy

​

edit: omg i msread the headline, I thought it was saying the girl they charged ALSO took her own life. I am just too fatigued I cant handle all this sad news

1

Papancasudani t1_jaafimk wrote

Why conspiracy to commit aggravated assault, and not aggravated assault?

1

nooutlaw4me t1_jaagilg wrote

The way this reads is confusing

1

Whalers7997 t1_jad7i9k wrote

I wish the kids that harassed me in school in the 90s got charged. Punish this kid and their parents to the fullest extent.

1

unholynight t1_ja8m4jk wrote

I read this as Student charged with bullying New Jersey school girl, takes her own life.

0

[deleted] t1_ja8331i wrote

[deleted]

−3

daedalus_was_right t1_ja87s4e wrote

They aren't.

I've been teaching for a decade, and was a student obviously much longer before that. I experienced the same kind of bullying in middle and high school in the 90s and 2000s. I also attempted suicide. The only reason I survived is because I was privileged enough to be in a family with good access to healthcare and a good understanding of mental health issues, who got me into therapy.

My schools' administrations, both private and public schools, were just as inept and incapable of stopping the abuse.

I was lucky. Most aren't. But this is nothing new.

11

whatsasimba t1_ja8gye4 wrote

Tho original comment is gone, so posting this here.

I was in school in the 80s. Bullied horribly (including physical violence). I finally dropped out in my junior year. You hear about it more, because we have faster/more modes of communication (used to be just whatever made it to national news at 6 and 11) and more modes of capturing evidence. Think about that case where the girl goaded her boyfriend into suicide. This could have happened in the 1970s over the phone. No one would know about it. There would have been no evidence.

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Mullethunt t1_ja88708 wrote

> I experienced the same kind of bullying in middle and high school in the 90s and 2000s.

That's a bold faced lie. No one was on the internet in the 90s-early 2000s like kids are today. Even myself, who grew up on BBS', wasn't on the internet like I am today. The bullying is non-stop and to think it's the same as it was 20-30 years ago is foolish.

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daedalus_was_right t1_ja88rl8 wrote

Whatever you tell yourself to sleep at night, sweetheart. You can ignore the fact that, in my community growing up, everyone had AIM and IRC and other forms of chatrooms that spread rumors and information like wildfire, but that doesn't make it a lie.

Not like that makes any difference; bullying is just as brutal whether the internet exists or not. When your cohort is only 100 people, and you get your shit kicked in in the hallway, the entire school knows what happened before the end of the day.

3

trekologer t1_ja89uzl wrote

> everyone had AIM and IRC and other forms of chatrooms that spread rumors and information like wildfire

Yes and no. These things existed but not in an environment where you're always connected to them. You can't say with a straight face that the prevalence of smart phones, tablets, school-issued laptops, etc. hasn't made the opportunities for bullies to target their victims worse.

2

daedalus_was_right t1_ja8atgr wrote

I can, actually.

There is documented data that rates of bullying have actually improved over the past few decades.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=719

Note that 2009 (the year cited in this data being compared to this decade) was before the introduction of smartphones en messe, and long before the proliferation of social media.

0

trekologer t1_ja8d7aj wrote

You're missing my point. Even if the instances of bullying have gone down (and I have no reason to dispute that), today, there are fewer ways to escape bullying. In 1995, we went home after school and we could be isolated from others or if we wanted to talk on the phone to or hang out with friends, we could do that too.

Compare to today. Ding you've been added to a Whatsapp group. Ding you've been mentioned on an Instagram post. Ding your TikTok video has been shared. It is harder to escape all that especially when those are the ways your friends communicate with each other.

5

Shishkebarbarian t1_ja8l59r wrote

AIM and IRC are nothing like facebook/tiktok/instagram/whatsapp, just stfu and stop making the story about you.

and this is coming from also someone who grew up on aim and mirc. you're either delusional or a troll. quit being a piece of shit.

−2

Mullethunt t1_ja89308 wrote

Oh cute, nicknames. Another person that can't have a conversation :)

−8

daedalus_was_right t1_ja896or wrote

Lmao you call me a liar but cry when you're treated the same way?

Don't throw rocks if you don't want them thrown back, bitch.

1

Mullethunt t1_ja89qdo wrote

I cried? I was trying to have a conversation but your panties got twisted. To say/act like the internet is the same today as it was in the late 90s is a straight up lie. This is coming from someone that works in IT, with the internet. Grow the fuck up. I'd hate to be one of your students if you can't even have a conversation without needing to name call immediately.

−6

daedalus_was_right t1_ja89y58 wrote

Oh you work in IT, that makes you an expert on bullying.

I'm done wasting my time here. I'm not the one that opened the conversation with some name-calling. Good day rube.

4

Mullethunt t1_ja8ah22 wrote

Holy shit, you're a teacher with that kind of observation? When the fuck did I say I was an expert in bullying? I called you out for your asinine comment that the internet is the same as it was 30 years ago. Then I gave you my reason why I would say that. You then make this about being a bullying expert? You just want to be upset and truly I feel bad for your students if that's even true. Keep up with the name calling though. It really helps show that you're anti-bullying :)

1

RGV_KJ t1_ja86d0p wrote

I feel bad for teachers. Teachers have to work under so much pressure for little pay. They have no power to enforce rules. School administration is inept.

7

malcolm_miller t1_ja8atts wrote

Teachers really get the short end of the stick from top to bottom. It sucks.

7