Submitted by Early-Consequence-61 t3_11mro32 in newjersey
Comments
just4u11 t1_jbjl81u wrote
Why is it more cost effective?
midnight_thunder t1_jbjoih9 wrote
Because if you put solar panels on an old roof you’re gonna need to pay extra to disassemble and reassemble the panel array when replacing the roof. Makes way more sense just to replace the roof when you put the panels on. We replaced a roof that had a few years left in the tank when we put our panels up.
just4u11 t1_jbjrvgu wrote
Valid
schizocosa13 t1_jbjxhdo wrote
Ball Park, how much did the new roof set you back?
NerdyRetiredGuy_1020 t1_jbkuok4 wrote
$9400 for a roof with 50 year guarantee, installed ridge vent removing the old elctric vent, reflashed the chimney. Got 4 quotes anywhere from $8000 to $13000. One we went with was recommended by a neighbor (he did inspections).
NOTE: This was a strip and replace. April or May of last year.
infamousdx t1_jbljp6o wrote
About the same price for me.
The 50 year standard of shingles just cracks me up though.
Thisismypasswprd t1_jbm8op2 wrote
25/30 year is a typical roof life and warranty
NerdyRetiredGuy_1020 t1_jblka7i wrote
I'll be 113 when the roof needs updating
midnight_thunder t1_jbjxzum wrote
$7400 for a 3br in North Jersey. I think it’s a decent price, but I only got 2 quotes (I picked the roofers the solar company recommended).
Cashneto t1_jbk0xfi wrote
Oh that's not bad, I honestly thought it would be triple that price in Northern NJ.
Rainbowrobb t1_jbjyjqc wrote
I have a roof going on by George Keller next week for 9,080 but it also includes some repairs, also North Jersey
metsurf t1_jbl2k4h wrote
Thats cheap. Full tear off? or just a second layer.
midnight_thunder t1_jbm5zgr wrote
Full tear off. I suppose I don’t have the biggest roof, which might have been a factor.
Huneecomb77 t1_jbm5jdn wrote
That's cheap. I paid $12k for a hip roof on a 3 bedroom right before covid. Bergen County. That was the average price I got quoted
NerdyRetiredGuy_1020 t1_jbku3zn wrote
We had to do this. Fortunately in our contract it was stated $499 to remove and reinstall the panels. Otherwise they had quoted us like $3500 (until I pointed out the clause in our contract).
sloth514 t1_jbk1ym4 wrote
Really well here. Renovated a house, new roof. I put solar up. Panels have a 25 year warranty, so as long as the roof. Lucky enough to have great sun and south facing back. So it's all on the back of my house and don't see them. I saved up money for years and ended up getting 41 panels installed (16.26 kWh system).
Federal government gave 26% back with invoice on taxes ( EDIT: at time of installation, law said it was going to be 22% next year and 20% the following year. Apparently, it's 30% now, surprisingly, thanks @njrun). So I only paid for 76% of the price for the panels.
NJ does the TREC system. Every month I enter how much I generate. ( u can pay a solar company to do it. But I don't) You get $91.20 for every 1Mwh ( 1,000 kWh). That price is locked for 15 years. So it doesn't matter how much you consume. My system size will generate around 14-19 TREC a year.
Each month my electric bill is $3.25 for the consumption fee since I produce more than I consume. Each month it carries over for a year. At the end of the year, if I generate more than I consume I get money back from the utility company.
Since panels are owned, not rented ( rent is a big issue when selling a house, I have heard issues) it adds non taxable property value to the house.
My math, I will make my money back with an estimated 5.75 years. With best case 4.5 years, worst case, 6.5 years. Everything after is profit.
Overall, helps keep monthly prices down and helps pay my other utility bills. If u can do it, plan to stay at the location, and have good sunlight, I would recommend. It's been great for me so far.
njrun t1_jbk3qjy wrote
The credit actually went up to 30%
sloth514 t1_jbk41t6 wrote
I guess congress actually passed something useful. That's a miracle. I knew it was going to go down if nothing was changed at the time of installation.
midnight_thunder t1_jbk5xgi wrote
Just FYI the tax credit actually went UP to 30% this past summer.
[deleted] t1_jbl7kot wrote
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sloth514 t1_jbl8byj wrote
Honestly, it depends on the person's situation. I know one coworker who leased/rented and has done well with it. If you don't have the capital it does make financial sense depending on the deal. The issue is when u rent or lease, u don't get the federal tax credit. The company does. But I have heard horror stories when the person dies and the lease gets transfered or during selling the house.
Also, I know some leases will also include repairs past the warranty and solar panel upgrades.
[deleted] t1_jbmb43m wrote
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jim13101713 t1_jbpn2yi wrote
Many solar companies will install and provide a loan with 0% down for full cost of panels and not start billing until you get approval to connect to grid - I got a 2% interest rate in mid-2022.
ser_pez t1_jbldnz7 wrote
Thanks for posting in detail. If you don’t mind answering, how much did you pay per panel? Did you hire installers or install them yourself? My house is going to need a new roof in the next 5-10 years and while I don’t love the idea of leasing solar panels maybe I can start saving for something like you’re describing.
sloth514 t1_jblwpxy wrote
I hired installers. I screened through 4 different ones. Ended up using SolarMe. I think they are based out of Ashbury Park. I have no complaints with them. They were great, only issue I had was there was something configured wrong during installation and took a little while to sort out. But it works fine now. They gave a great summary and estimate of the system. They also provide commercial grade panels (more durable, longer lasting, and cheaper than Tesla panels IMHO) and use an Enphase system which has good support. I would also ask for the critter guard to prevent squirrels and chipmunks under the panels. Overall, paid total $44,000 for panels and installation before the federal credit, which gave me $11,000 back. so, after federal taxes total was $33,000 for the largest size system I could get installed. Again, took me about 6 years of side work and consulting to save up for it. But it's something I really wanted to do.
jarage00 t1_jbmao8d wrote
Jumping on to this to say my first full year of having panels, I paid $50 for electric on top of the fee, so about $100 total for the year. Down from more $500-600/month in the summer and probably $100ish minthly the rest of the year. My backyard is south facing and I have no large trees so the panels get full sun.
THE_some_guy t1_jbobs35 wrote
> Each month my electric bill is $3.25 for the consumption fee since I produce more than I consume
If you’re producing more than you consume shouldn’t your consumption fee be $0, if not negative (money coming to you)?
sloth514 t1_jboe839 wrote
Long story is utility companies complain they are losing money. So before I got the COO on the renovation. My electric bill was actually negative because I was not consuming anything. But since we moved in that changed. From what I read, The consumption fee is because I am still pulling from the grid and consuming electricity during off hours ( night). I am not storing everything to a battery. So even though I produce more than I consume, they want a transaction fee for it. I might be wrong here and could look it up again. But that was what I found out when I looked into it last time.
Also, we can't guarantee that it will always be negative. It depends on the weather and usage. So far I have only had 1 month where I actually consumed more than I produced. So it is possible not to produce enough and why they handle it on a yearly basis and not a per monthly basis ( monthly rollover).
Early-Consequence-61 OP t1_jbj7n9f wrote
To clarify because I suck at posting on Reddit- I see quite a few houses with solar on them and wondering if it’s effective in someplace that has actual seasons
coolwubla t1_jbjddc6 wrote
There seems to be a common misconception about Solar and temperature. Solar energy comes from Light not heat. The fact that it’s cold in the winter has no effect on solar. However shorter days with less direct sun does have an effect. However, the only place where this would not have a significant effect would be at the equator.
refpuz t1_jbjjeq9 wrote
Temperature of the panels does affect solar panel efficiency though. It is measurable, but comes in second to total daylight in terms of total daily output. It is significant enough that there are now Hybrid PV-Thermal Panels which generate both electricity and hot water. The water loop cools the panels which increases efficiency (up to 15% more electricity generated) while also turning the waste heat into usable hot water for your home. They are more efficient because they turn more of the solar energy into useable stuff for your home than just electricity or thermal panels separately.
infamousdx t1_jbjz7x2 wrote
> The fact that it’s cold in the winter has no effect on solar.
Also not entirely true in that panels become more efficient when it's below 77 degrees until, I think, 59 degrees. That is to say, on those really random chilly spring or fall days where you still have very long sunlight hours, you will see more production than you'd see during summer where you have the longest sun hours.
jbl429 t1_jbke9sl wrote
Exactly. I'm getting more production out of my solar panels now in March where I'm really only producing from 9:30 - 3:30 than I will in the middle of July where the days are way longer, but it's 90F+ outside.
Early-Consequence-61 OP t1_jbk6w9j wrote
What I meant was that I am currently much closer to the equator, and I barely see clouds in the sky so solar makes easy sense. But in a place that’s cloudy rainy, wintery, foresty, wasn’t sure. Wondering if it’s a selling point on a house or a pain in the ass or worse, useless. Glad to hear otherwise
jd3marco t1_jbjfx52 wrote
January was our first full month with solar. Our system produces 7kwh max (I’m told, but I see a max of 3.5kwh in winter.). It generated 200kwh, which a more than half of what we use, typically. It saved us about $60. It was over 300kwh in February, saving us about $90. I still owed $15 to pseg for electric.
Our panel position is only ok, not optimal. I’m sure others are doing a bit better. My rough estimate for break-even on owning solar is about $60 per month for the life of the system (25years). Even February broke even, so I am hopeful. We’ll see what summer brings…
infamousdx t1_jbks9l4 wrote
Did the solar company do a break even analysis on the cost of your system?
jd3marco t1_jbl2ssd wrote
Yes, but i was concerned that they present a rosier picture. I have it…somewhere. I did crude estimates and didn’t really factor in credits earned in my state. I took the cost after fed tax credit and divided by the life of the panels. I estimated my electric at about $100 per month (we have gas too). I assumed that the net metering would average out so that I basically don’t pay for electric. I have to see what summer is like.
The break even, by my estimate is about 11.5yrs. Then, there is 13 years of additional savings, plus whatever the trec credit things are. Minus whatever it costs to move these panels in 15yrs when I need a new roof. I assume energy prices will continue to rise, but I won’t be affected as much. A good deal, I would say, even if I have fuzzy math.
infamousdx t1_jbljulo wrote
11 years sounds about right if your original electric bill was only $100 per month. Curious as to why you went for solar with such a small bill?
jd3marco t1_jbloz8k wrote
It’s not the size of the bill… I guess we are efficient. It was just two of us. I will keep the house cooler now that we have solar. We still don’t like to keep the house cold. 76 maybe in summer.
We have a kid now and expect the bill to be higher. I also plan to charge an electric vehicle. Doing what I can since my daughter’s generation is inheriting a pretty fucked up planet.
rossmosh85 t1_jbn18nu wrote
Your math doesn't add up from my experience. I know electricity prices are regional, but as far as I know when you add supply and delivery, most of NJ is $.18/kWh. So 200kWh would be a savings of $36 not $60.
jd3marco t1_jbn9143 wrote
It’s rounded a bit…rough as I said. $58.52 saving in January. I also rounded down my production from 209. We used 49kwh this month. and were charged 7.17 for delivery and 6.60 for supply. It’s about $0.28 combined.
Are we getting screwed more than most of NJ? They sent a letter in January that they were decreasing the price, but i haven’t compared.
midnight_thunder t1_jbjoyd1 wrote
In winter months only south facing panels do well. We have a few north facing panels that were basically in the shade all winter. Now that the sun is getting higher in the sky, those panels are actually collecting some light.
You’re going to be quoted a annual kWH production number when looking to install. Just know that you’re going to produce far below average in the winter, and far above average in the summer.
R-code t1_jbjng06 wrote
We’ve had our system for about 4 years now and we’re happy with it. We generate way more than we use in the summer, lags a bit in the winter. The annual generation is about on par with our annual usage at the time we purchased it.
Considering adding a few more panels now that we have an EV and our consumption is up.
ajfili t1_jbl2o9t wrote
Whatever you do to get your panels. Do NOT do a PPA. Came across a house that had solar with a PPA. You pretty much don’t own the hardware, and if you have to work on your roof you’re screwed (you’re responsible for all fees for removing them)
All tax credits, rebates, benefits go to the solar company and you pay per kw/h a fixed rate that increases every year. The house we looked at, the price per kw from the solar “owner” was higher than the current normal electric rate. So there was zero benefit to the home owner.
And it was a 20 year agreement.
Might as well try and sell a radioactive house.
Early-Consequence-61 OP t1_jbl4sdm wrote
Thank you this was the mess I was looking for. Lots of cute houses with solar but I get calls for that scam shit every day in Florida
Draano t1_jblnogf wrote
Yes, reiterating what you say - beware of PPAs! Friend's neighbor couldn't sell their house because of the agreement.
If you see the person in Home Depot trying to sell you a solar system, ask about the PPA first!
Sn_Orpheus t1_jbkldv4 wrote
If you’re in central nj (around Morristown to Bridgewater) who have you used for install and were you happy? Definitely want to do this and full ownership/not rent.
sloth514 t1_jbmhs53 wrote
See my other post. I am in the area, central. I went with SolarMe and they were from Asbury Park. But work all over the area.
jim13101713 t1_jbpnjlz wrote
Trinity Solar is one of largest in NJ and we were happy with them. They focus on homeowner owned system with 0% down financing.
infamousdx t1_jbqnzi2 wrote
As I've said in another post, careful with 0% financing. Always get the all in cash price too. Might make sense to seek a loan elsewhere instead of these solar loan companies.
fpfx t1_jbjy4f8 wrote
I hear it has a bright future.
bobby_si t1_jbjws75 wrote
So far so good. Peak summer, cooling a 2750sqft house with keeping it straight up cold, our bill was $300. Also, I’m not sure if they’re still doing SRACs but we get cut a check about $200-300 bi monthly.
jjb89 t1_jbk6eef wrote
I've tried to get solar a few times and it's always way more expensive than traditional energy. my house faces due north so the backside faces due south which is perfect and I have zero shade over my house and with the cost of the panels and roof I would lose out over any period of time. confirmed by the solar companies
Bloodbathowl t1_jbo7888 wrote
Same, I don't use enough electricity to not be in the red in the end. And I don't qualify for any rebate because of my usage also.
jjb89 t1_jbo8ql4 wrote
it's kinda bullshit thay I can't use it to make money. if I could sell back all my energy they I think we should be able to switch over faster but they keep making it less and less profitable for anyone but the power companies
Njsybarite t1_jcrkhmj wrote
Does your utility not have net metering?
jjb89 t1_jctjzbn wrote
they do but the amount you have to put into the system vs what they pay is way too low and it only applies to actual energy usage not fees so even if I produce enough power to cover my entire bill it will not cover the fees portion. say I generate 100 bucks worth of extra electric a month and my actual electric charges are 50 it will only cover that portion
baylee13070 t1_jblakd3 wrote
Fantastic for me. I have a big, south facing roof with no trees or other building getting in the way. My 20 year loan is $180 a month and I used to pay almost $400 a month in the summertime and about $200 in the winter. Plus I make about $225 every month selling my solar credits. So I don't just save money, I make money. DO NOT RENT, BUY YOUR PANELS
FartFragrance t1_jblgpqy wrote
Interesting as my roof faces completely south with no trees or anything in the way. I have always wanted to do this but obviously never did 🤔
Solozzo33 t1_jbxf0us wrote
interest rates making “rent” the viable option again in 2023
PleasantGoat8033 t1_jblf16u wrote
Anyone tried it on a pergola instead of a roof?
Anothercoot t1_jbk34l0 wrote
How is breaking even over 20 to 30 years worth it especially if you might need to reroof and get the panels reinstalled?
midnight_thunder t1_jbk6n4u wrote
Well first, if it takes you 20-30 years to break even, you’re getting ripped off, or your loan’s interest rate is terrible and you’re making minimum payments. Solar panels have warranties that basically match the life of a roof these days, so ideally, you’ll replace that roof at the same time as putting up new panels. Solar panel tech has come a long way in 25 years, the optimist in me says 25 years from now they’ll be cheaper, more efficient, and more reliable than they are today.
jim13101713 t1_jbk5hyv wrote
In theory the electric rate will go up and your monthly solar panel cost will stay the same. But yes you should not get solar unless you are getting a new roof or recently got a new roof. Most people break even much sooner than 20 years - often 7-12 is what I hear.
[deleted] t1_jbkwen0 wrote
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silentsnip94 t1_jbli4rh wrote
It brought our electric down to $8 last month, but good luck getting permits approved/PSEG inspection/hookup. Took us about 6 months from panel installation to actually pulling power from them. Thanks, Sunrun 🤬
fishingwithmk t1_jblmqdn wrote
There are panels all over the place in the fields of Sussex county
Cminor420flat69 t1_jbm6lhw wrote
I work for a solar company and NJ residents can’t get enough of it. Our office of 22 people sign up 30+ new customers a day.
infamousdx t1_jbm97n1 wrote
Curious... Any numbers on how much pay cash outright vs how many finance?
Cminor420flat69 t1_jbmmp90 wrote
In my state there’s federal and state incentives so the majority take the no cost option. I do get a few people a week saying they want to buy them or they’ve tried to buy them though. My apologies for no numbers though, it’s a private company so I’d have to like email my CEO lol and that would just get lost in his spam
infamousdx t1_jbmn6r7 wrote
All good. Makes sense. I have a feeling that most take the no cost option but the fees/interest is really baked into the price when you see the differences.
In my case, the financed quotes were almost 20% more than paying cash, but the problem is that they are under the guise of a "0% loan". It's so shady.
Cminor420flat69 t1_jbn2b8h wrote
If you don’t mind me asking, what company did you get the quote from? I get a lot of people saying the companies they dealt with gave “shady” feeling quotes.
Solozzo33 t1_jbxf3qh wrote
Been in the solar business 10 years in NJ. it’s going amazing
Sjerseymom1 t1_jbjpd5c wrote
Horrible because for over 10 years trying to get solar we are still in a blacked out or closed grid. No updates have been done for over that long. 🤬
AnUglyUgly t1_jblbs8s wrote
What is that and where is that?
asian_identifier t1_jbk0tr5 wrote
depends on the weather
jim13101713 t1_jbjcww4 wrote
You will usually come out ahead in the long term by getting solar in NJ as long as you don’t have too many trees shading your house.
However, it is generally most cost effective to get solar installed when re-doing roof or shortly after a new roof is added.