Comments
Kabloomers1 t1_iu4y007 wrote
Honestly, I'm a teacher in NJ and I think we get paid all right, depending on the district. They are gutting benefits which is a huge bummer, but we get paid better than most other states. The thing that is harder to fix is the burnout. We need more support, more subs, more paraprofessionals, more co-teachers. Meanwhile there are more responsibilities being heaped on teachers on top of just doing their jobs. Districts aren't going to pay for more teachers and paras, and aren't going to pay enough to attract new subs. Teachers are exhausted and are now being forced to use their prep periods to cover for their fellow teachers who are out. Why kill yourself working nonstop and getting 20 minutes to whorf down a salad while you grade papers when you could join the private sector? Summers off are obviously great but for a lot of people it's not enough to deal with the stress of the school year. People are leaving in droves.
AllThoseSadSongs t1_iu583xo wrote
Teachers in NJ absolutely get paid well, but not well enough for what we are expected to do. I do almost the work of two teachers, but I'm not being paid as such. How many teachers are taking on extra responsibilities without a resulting increase in pay? How many younger teachers are propping up older teachers in technology without even an acknowledgment? Things aren't the same as they even were five years ago with the amount of extra, unseen work heaping on us.
cassinonorth t1_iu5d0t8 wrote
I want to punch anyone who says teachers only work 180 days or just 8-3 daily. My wife works basically 7 days a week between grading papers, prepping lessons and going to grad school because that's the only way to make decent money in the profession.
They routinely take away her prep periods to cover other classes too. It's a mess. I try to make her life super easy on weekdays, cooking most nights but it's tough. There's only so much I can do.
idiosyncrisia t1_iu62du3 wrote
Are you me? My wife is also going through grad school and dropping underpaying extracurriculars like yearbook to stay sane. Teaching sucks, and we’re not sure if she’s going to continue past paying off the degree.
AllThoseSadSongs t1_iu5lo9a wrote
Same with my husband. I work in daycare so it's less at home, but it's a forty-five hour week with screaming kids. So it's a trade off from hell.
Satanic_Doge t1_iu5j0hx wrote
The fact that NJ teachers get paid better than anywhere else in the US just makes us the thinnest kids at fat camp.
louisprimaasamonkey t1_iu5orkv wrote
Highest paid teachers in one of the most expensive states to live in
[deleted] t1_iu6dupl wrote
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AllThoseSadSongs t1_iu5lpnf wrote
Exactly this.
Certain_Minimum_8862 t1_iu68upb wrote
I’m a teacher and we get paid crap. We live in one of the most expensive states in the country so our salary might be higher than other states but it doesn’t match the cost of living. Especially in North and Central jersey
deluxepepperoncini t1_iu5crrc wrote
We’re moving to NJ from NY and my wife is looking to change to NJ schools eventually. I told her to get in now while she can because of the shortage. She’s worried about pay changes.
mjabed600 t1_iu5yzl3 wrote
Well apparently they're giving out a sign on bonus
deluxepepperoncini t1_iu5z4ze wrote
That’s news to me. I’m actually curious how much they are.
mjabed600 t1_iu62974 wrote
But make sure you get it in writing from HR because HR and admins are liars
mjabed600 t1_iu6tdrm wrote
As I'm sharing this I'm realizing how the state is willing to pay bonuses to attract teachers instead of trying to retain existing ones lol.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu7a991 wrote
Short term>long term benefits works everytime. I don't want a sign on bonus, I wanna be paid a living and fair wage in this state.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu79mka wrote
Your wife has a masters and experience coming from NY (a masters her district most likely paid in NY). Schools everywhere are being extremely cheap, but they are not likely to turn her down.
deluxepepperoncini t1_iu79xll wrote
I guess she can demand some money when she goes for an interview.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu7cjay wrote
Demand is a bit strong lmao but ya it really depends. Colleague of mine came from teaching finance at a university as an adjunct for years and has a masters. He decided to move into the high school setting, and very much regrets it. It's very sad as well he loves teaching, kids love him, and is good at what he does but despite all that admin hires him to teach even more sections than core curriculum and started him at step 1 on the salary guide since it was his first year teaching high school despite a decade of teaching in universities. Our other Colleague who is a bumbling bitchy idiot teaches the easiest sections, complains about it all the time because they are freshmen, and yet she makes more than the rest of us despite it's her first year (not fresh out of college either she's in her mid 40s teacher by alt route) teaching ever! The system is so fucked up its laughable.
daedalus_was_right t1_iue6aa0 wrote
Not in a union state she can't; salaries are determined by collective bargaining agreements, there is no individual salary negotiations. Nearly every district will give a slight stipend for having a MA degree, but she can't just waltz in and negotiate a different salary compared to another teacher with the same years and qualifications. That would defeat the entire purpose of having a union.
deluxepepperoncini t1_iufory8 wrote
Right, that makes sense.
mjabed600 t1_iu69e9n wrote
Paid alright compared to what?
butiamsotired t1_iu8ds0y wrote
The paraprofessionals do not get paid well.
kinsho t1_iu6hyh2 wrote
>Meanwhile there are more responsibilities being heaped on teachers on top of just doing their jobs
Please go into more detail here.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu7bq94 wrote
Additional unpaid duties, taking on more students despite union terms on classroom sizes, filling in for other teachers despite losing either our prep period or lunch (often times both unpaid), having to be more involved in the IEP and 504 process (writing these accommodation plans which counselors and admin are supposed to do), SGOs, weekly lesson planning as opposed to monthly plans, Professional development, department meetings forced by admin, more PD but now with HOMEWORK FOR TEACHERS, playing actual therapist for students, and the list goes on. It's largely a lot of administrative duties that the actual admin is supposed to do not teachers, all unpaid outside of contract hours of course. This isn't accounting for all the things we already do on a regular basis that is required of our duties, it's a lot and the expectations keep on rising and suddenly new responsibilities get tact on.
[deleted] t1_iu4x60t wrote
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uller999 t1_iu51b1x wrote
Right there with you man, I will lose 3 of 5 plan period this week, and I'm really curious how long that's going to continue. I coach, so I'm working 10 hour days with no breaks everytime I cover. I'm going to ditch the career, it's not worth it anymore. I've been doing this 11 years and the parents and kiddos have gotten astronomically worse.
AllThoseSadSongs t1_iu5m4je wrote
And I assume if the kids lose the special, the teachers lose their prep.
[deleted] t1_iu6008g wrote
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ChefMike1407 t1_iu4xpjw wrote
It’s been rough. I’ve never seen it so bad. I am in my 12th year, pay has been stagnant, resources are few and far between, and buying your own supplies has become the norm. I decided to go back to university at 36 in hopes of finding something new, because teaching for another 30 years is not an option.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu4zvb3 wrote
>Buying your own supplies has become the norm
This has always been the norm.
murphydcat t1_iu59drd wrote
I was married to a teacher. We had to purchase paint and paint her classroom over the summer.
She often emails me assignments, quizzes, etc and asks me to run off copies at my office because the one copier that serves the entire school is broken.
My brother makes over $200k as a middle manager for an insurance company and often rants how teachers are overpaid and hardly work because they "get summers off."
daedalus_was_right t1_iu59jpj wrote
Yup. Quite a few of those shitstains in this very thread today.
ChefMike1407 t1_iu5m5tw wrote
I’ve never had a summer off in 12 years. And let’s be honest, most of the teachers not working are taking care of their families.
WaltzThinking t1_iu5f8nu wrote
Thanks for this apt summary of the situation.
Linenoise77 t1_iu5ahls wrote
What district in NJ is letting teachers paint their rooms.
My wife is an educator, I've been in tons of schools in my course of work as well.
The shitstorm that would cause with the union would be insane.
[deleted] t1_iu51es7 wrote
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daedalus_was_right t1_iu51okw wrote
Lol, idk what fancy ass district you attended as a student, but when I was in elementary and high school (back in the 90s) we would get classroom points or extra credit for bringing in tissues, printer paper, etc... because teachers weren't supplied with these things by the district.
Buying your own supplies has always been the norm for teachers.
Edit; it appears some of you are interpreting this comment as being dismissive of teachers having to shell out of their own woefully low salaries for classroom supplies. I am one of those schmucks who is constantly having to pay out of pocket for classroom supplies. I've spent over 100 bucks just this school year so far on my own classroom. All I'm saying is this problem is not new. Educators in this country have been ridiculously abused for generations.
[deleted] t1_iu53ehq wrote
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daedalus_was_right t1_iu53yf8 wrote
Bully for you, you were in one of the better districts then.
This is still not the norm lol.
ChefMike1407 t1_iu5m1hm wrote
We used to receive some things.
Fryceratops t1_iu5468r wrote
No it was not. In the 1970/80s when I was in school teachers were supplied what they needed.
Soggy-Constant5932 t1_iu5xk7b wrote
I am constantly saying this to my husband. Throw a bat or ball and you get millions. Teach the children of our future and you need a second job to make ends meet. It’s awful.
KeyWest- t1_iu659yx wrote
The country literally doesn't have a backbone.
[deleted] t1_iu63wh3 wrote
You kind of answered your own question. Because teachers mold the intellect (and morals, to an extent) of children, they become vulnerable to cynicism, scapegoating. Conspiracy theory. So on and so forth.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu4uot1 wrote
Nearly 10 years in the classroom here (though no longer in New Jersey); here's why I'm currently considering leaving the profession entirely.
Just this year alone:
I've had students leaving hate speech notes like little bitch ass cowards in my classroom, targeting me for my orientation. I know who's doing it (as if I haven't spent months studying their individual handwriting styles); admin refuses to discipline them for fear of lawsuits from parents.
A colleague caught 12 of their students blatantly copying each other's major essay assignment. My colleague was viciously attacked through email and in meetings with parents, calling them every name you could imagine. Admin, instead of standing behind my colleague's decision to fail these students, simply moved them out of their class into a different class to sweep the problem under the rug. They suffered no consequences.
Despite 10 years in the classroom, I'm still working 60-70 hour weeks, because everything I do is constantly undermined by my district. Just this week, my entire gradebook was erased in the LMS (digital grade keeping software). I now have to go back in and manually create every single assignment and re-enter every single grade I've issued since early August. This will easily add 10+ hours of work to my week. It's fucking Friday, I'd like to be able to spend at least 1 day with my spouse this week, but it appears, yet again, that isn't in the cards.
We recently had active shooter training, conducted by a police lieutenant. It ended with this 300lb cop teaching us how to bludgeon a shooter to death with a chair or book if our classroom is breached, how to duct tape students to chairs if they try to flee a classroom when we're locked down during an active shooting, and other such insanity.
I have a spouse who brings in a second income, and I still am paying more than 50% of my income in rent. We have no kids, we do not buy anything expensive, we don't eat out often, we don't spend extravagantly, we hardly even go out, period. 10 fucking years, and the prospect of owning a home is a pipe dream.
Being a teacher is an exercise in being the victim in an abusive relationship. Admin relies on this dynamic. Parents rely on this dynamic. I get more support, understanding, and compassion from a small cohort of self-aware students than I do from the overwhelming majority of my superiors, or parents. I am America's whipping boy. I went into this profession thinking I could do some good for society. That good appears to be being the punching bag for everyone's frustrations.
Please save your platitudes. This isn't a request for sympathy, I just wanted to give some anecdotal perspective of one teacher's experiences.
Edited for clarity and privacy.
d_trenton t1_iu50to4 wrote
You hit the nail on the head. Towards the end of high school, I expressed a desire to become a teacher to a couple of my own teachers. I expected them to be delighted, but they were not. They explicitly told me not to do it, because of the exact things you said here. This was about ten years ago too. It's sad, but they were right.
Satanic_Doge t1_iu5jbeq wrote
> Being a teacher is an exercise in being the victim in an abusive relationship. Admin relies on this dynamic. Parents rely on this dynamic. I get more support, understanding, and compassion from a small cohort of self-aware students than I do from the overwhelming majority of my superiors, or parents. I am America's whipping boy. I went into this profession thinking I could do some good for society. That good appears to be being the punching bag for everyone's frustrations.
I work in a charter school and feel this so hard.
Thendofreason t1_iu5d2dx wrote
Can a kid be expelled due to their parent's behavior? This should be the case. It sucks for a kid who has bad parents and they aren't doing anything bad besides doing bad in grades, but parents need to be in check. If you care that much about if their kid gets an A or not, then make sure your kid studies and not take it out on the teacher.
I know lots of teachers who wont teach in the rich districts because there's no way they are going to deal with those parents. Literally talking about Westfield, NJ(as seen in that new Netflix show The Watcher. Even though it was filmed in the UK).
daedalus_was_right t1_iu5f2r0 wrote
No they cannot. Expulsions only happen in the most extreme cases these days (for things like attempted murder, sexual assault, or other such heinous crimes).
Satanic_Doge t1_iu5iw3k wrote
Can confirm. Expulsion almost never happens anymore in general.
RosaKlebb t1_iu6jh1w wrote
Hell it barely ever happened. I remember being in high school in the immediate post 9/11, we won’t hesitate to call the cops zero tolerance era and virtually every goon dopehead cretin shit heel was there for graduation.
Absolute worst they did to that crowd was give them all the same schedule with the checked out retiring teachers and older hardasses to effectively babysit them regardless of it working or not.
felipe_the_dog t1_iu5rroh wrote
I never really understood why the admins don't support the teachers when there are disputes with the parents. If it's a public school at least, tell the parents to kick rocks. What's the risk here? Apologies if I'm being naive.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu5t5jt wrote
Parents sue school districts on a fairly regular basis.
RosaKlebb t1_iu6l1rl wrote
Yeah liability is huge in that environment. Not to say everyone with a grievance with school is frivolous suit happy but there are very easy lines to cross that can have things implode.
Someone I know from college successfully sued their high school when they got a drug test forced on them on the suspicion of “they look high”. I think at the time there needed to be protocol to notify parents and some other stuff, and basically the teacher making the claim’s husband is a town cop who doubles as school safety officer and she more or less sicc’d him on the student to intimidate them to take a drug test with all sorts of threats for them refusing until they did just to leave the nurse’s office.
Family pretty much nailed the school.
caesar____augustus t1_iu60bo4 wrote
It's a lot easier to cave to parents. A lot of times parents won't even deal with counselors, building admin etc and will go straight to the superintendent, who will then put pressure on building admins to deal with the issue as quickly as possible. That usually means the teachers get hosed.
eledoremassis02 t1_iu5icde wrote
Also left NJ but wanted to be a teacher and every teacher I talked to said not to do it, even when I was on vacation in Florida. I ran into teachers in the theme parks who taught in Florida and told me not to become a teacher. So now I'm with a history degree and no teachering degree (the way NJ handles it's certification) and working a job where I don't get paid enough to even cover my student loans. But I'm still glad I'm not teaching as bad as that sounds.
It's a shame but I'm holding out till conditions and culture improve.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu5lfnx wrote
Just to clarify, you don't need a full "education degree" (bachelor's or masters) to teach in NJ, you need something called a state certificate. It's a program that typically takes an extra 1.5-2 years of college, sometimes some of it is done concurrently with your BA degree, but much of the time teachers spend 5+ years in undergrad to get their BA + State Teaching Certificate.
eledoremassis02 t1_iu5mb46 wrote
So, when I went to college I was told that I had to get a BA in a subject. Then Id have to come back to get the education portion and I'd get my masters. That was the only option I knew about :/ this was around 2010
daedalus_was_right t1_iu5mk8k wrote
Someone misinformed you. NY I believe is the only state that requires you to get a MA to teach, and that's only within your first 5 years in the profession. NJ is just a BA, plus some extra classes, and your student teaching.
eledoremassis02 t1_iu5q63z wrote
Wow. I wish I knew that :( thank you for clearing that up
daedalus_was_right t1_iu5r5fo wrote
For sure. Going back to get your cert later on isn't the worst thing, but with the state of the profession, there are far lower stress jobs out there for comparable pay.
eledoremassis02 t1_iu5t3i4 wrote
That's how I feel now. I'm in guest service and get yelled out, but because I work for a big company, people think my job is cool and respects what I do (even tho it's of no importance). It's sad but it's just not worth it for me to be a teacher right now.
bros402 t1_iu63yok wrote
That isn't how it worked then at all - unless you went to Rutgers, who did/does not have an undergrad education program.
RosaKlebb t1_iu6j3lf wrote
We effectively are due for brain drain and the quality of education tanking,yeah?
It’s wild because I remember going through undergrad with a program that could beeline you to teach in NJ and everyone talked about how it’s so hard to get teaching gig unless your some big shots relative, and now it just seems like something people don’t wanna touch with a ten foot pole.
WhimsicalWhiteWalrus t1_iu6o52y wrote
I mean this in the most sincere way possible…you need to leave. You need to get out now, while you’re still young and find a career that values you and more importantly, one that makes you feel worthwhile. It will only get worse. And you, your spouse, your family, and your health are going to suffer. What you are doing right now is not sustainable. I wish you all the best.
yayscienceteachers t1_iu71raz wrote
I want to leave but my current set up is easy with my life circumstances. What kills me are the active shooter trainings. How is it at all acceptable that I am trained and paid to educate children and I am spending time on how to not die?
TheWalrusIsMe t1_iu7cfkz wrote
100% why I’m planning to leave the profession! I love teaching, don’t like being a teacher.
pquinn87 t1_iu7n1vn wrote
I feel like I could have written this three years ago (except for the spouse part, I didn’t have time to date because work). I went to law school after 8 years teaching high school. I loved teaching, but it was the best decision I’ve ever made. In my third year and I’ve got a job lined up with a good firm that will pay me nearly triple what I made as a teacher for basically the same hours I was working.
My advice is to make a plan and get out while you still have the steam to make a career change. Admin will suck you dry because they know you have a public service mentality; they’ll take advantage of it (and you) any chance they get. It’s criminal.
bros402 t1_iu63t0n wrote
I graduated with a degree in education in December 2013
wasn't able to get a job for over a year afterwards because virtually every principal was shocked when I would walk in and they saw a guy. One's eyes bugged out and another greeted my very happily when she looked up and saw that I am a guy (then she stammered through the interview and it was over around 4 minutes - the person before me was in there for at least 15 minutes)
I saw a neuropsychologist in 2010 who even warned me saying "you know you'll probably get bored after a couple of years or teaching with these test results"
then I ended up getting cancer and haven't been able to look for work since 2015
thanks cancer
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu4n1as wrote
Friendly reminder there is no teacher shortage, it's an exodus. There are plenty of experienced professionals like myself in this state willing to work that are neither treated or paid fairly.
We teachers are completely under paid in this state (especially for young new teachers) that it makes it extremely difficult to build a life here as well as being expected to fix everything but without any power to do so. Students have zero accountability nowadays with parents and admin completely enabling it, making learning impossible and our job that much more difficult.
NJ needs to do better, people have to start actually listening and taking teachers (not admin or politicians) more seriously.
sutisuc t1_iu4tagv wrote
The sad thing is NJ actually has much higher pay than most other states.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu4yh7g wrote
Higher pay means nothing when everything is inflated. Same thing with California has been going on for ages, teachers there make 100k+ but the COL and everything else just costs too much to be sustainable. Teachers on average nationally have seen the lowest salary growth the past 30 if not 50 years. Teachers wages need to be substantially revamped as well as other sustainability programs that would help alleviate things from their budget i.e. maybe special housing loans similar to what vets get so teachers can actually teach in the communities they live affordably and not have to commute from over an hour away.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu5kfu4 wrote
Teachers in CA are not making 100k. A very, VERY select few individuals make over 100k but it is an extreme rarity. I'm on step 8 in my current district and am not close to 100k. I won't hit 100k until I have nearly 20 years in, and I'm in one of the highest paying districts in all of CA.
As someone else in this thread said, the fact that NJ/CA have some of the highest teacher salaries just means these states are the skinniest kids at fat camp.
sutisuc t1_iu62xl6 wrote
Yeah I think he missed my initial point lol
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu6zzf5 wrote
I get what you're saying in your main point. We are not only ranked no. 1 in the nation for public schools but also rank high for pay for teachers. What I'm saying is a flat number doesn't really mean much when you measure it against other variables like COL. What's the point in making 90k when rent goes up almost double in the course of a year for 10 years straight? If more than half your monthly income still goes towards rent even after pay raises, did you really get a pay raise when everything else around you is inflated. I get what you're saying and it is really sad that a great state like ours stills treats us teachers like shit. Imagine being repeatedly called Frontline heros but getting zero respect or benefits the entire pandemic and things actually only got worse for teachers?
daedalus_was_right t1_iu64k0e wrote
I think you're both saying pretty much the same thing actually; my comment was just meant to clarify the numbers.
ChefMike1407 t1_iu4y77b wrote
It’s really sad to see how pay scales have shifted. I work in a district that capped out around 100k at step 13 for teachers with a Master’s. Now step 13 is 64k. Now we are at 22 steps. I’ll be making 36k less in my 13th year than those a decade before me. But to be in this many years you are stuck. I interviewed at three other districts for slightly higher pay, but they all offered are 2 or 3. Not worth it.
AllThoseSadSongs t1_iu5wlls wrote
That makes sense. The cost of living is decreasing. /s
likesomecatfromjapan t1_iu5du99 wrote
Agree with everything you said. It's such a joke.
[deleted] t1_iu4r39v wrote
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daedalus_was_right t1_iu4vlwu wrote
Your "opinion" is unpopular because it's flat out wrong. (It's not even an opinion; it's an assertion of market forces based on a faulty premise.)
I currently have 155 students across 5 classes every single day. Do you have any fucking clue how much reading and grading that creates every day of my life? During midterm season, I have thousands of pages of assessments to read and grade.
This is why education is fucked; everyone and their mother who has never done this job a single day in their life, like you, think they understand the problem.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu526qn wrote
And dealing with 25+ students by ourselves with almost a quarter of them now "requiring" an iep/504 and having to provide accommodations as well as make the plans.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu4uq1c wrote
There's been an excess of humanities teachers specifically the past 30+ years not so much in the STEM department. Just because there are a lot of teachers doesn't mean they should be paid less either. No big reform is gonna happen anytime soon that will actually benefit education or teachers. If anything we are seeing the opposite happen across the nation, many states are lowering standards for certification to be a teacher from a bachelors to just a HS diploma and states like Florida are just taking veterans or reservists to fill classrooms as normal (not even stationing additional vets for aiding since they have no clue what they are doing). An excess of highly skilled and educated professionals is good and we should be maintaining that standard especially since the average classroom size is getting bigger every year in most places.
theusernameicreated t1_iu4ybim wrote
The highest property taxes in the US. Where is the money going if teacher pay is so low? New teachers start at $50,000. Teachers make $150,000+ at the end of their careers. This is for 9 months worth of work.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu505qu wrote
Teachers do not make 150k at the end of their careers. This is bullshit, and you should be ashamed of yourself considering this is literally publicly published information you can easily Google.
We do not work for 9 months. We do 12 months worth of work in 10 months, then continue doing trainings, lesson planning, and other prep work for 2 months over the summer.
You wouldn't last a week in this profession. Close your mouth, honey, you look like a trout.
EngineSpecialist259 t1_iu54aw7 wrote
Nailed it!
theusernameicreated t1_iu57g6v wrote
Every single kid in the state of NJ has been through the school system. Who are you trying to convince?
We have the best educational system numbers in the state of NJ because of students who go for private tutoring for Algebra 2, reading comprehension, and writing who are single handily padding the numbers up.
Here's my memory of the school system. Running out of paper for exams every year like clockwork. Deducting an entire letter grade if every single student doesn't bring in 5 sheets of paper. The most boring powerpoints forcing students to get $110/hr private tutoring to keep up with AP exams.
I would never, ever vote for higher taxes to support lazy, incompetent, toxic teachers who work 9 months a year; force students to teach themselves, and put an undue burden on parents who have to hire private tutors who abandoned the toxic school working environment long ago to concentrate on their passion for teaching.
Basedrum777 t1_iu5eci6 wrote
If you're actually willing to listen I'd love to explain how many things in this comment are wrong. I have a feeling you don't actually care and will continue to be wrong to make sure you can continue to hate your previous teachers.
I'm an accountant with a wife teacher so my numbers aren't wrong.
daedalus_was_right t1_iu588ks wrote
Lmao, thank you for demonstrating you don't have a single clue what goes on in this profession.
I'm done here. Can't have a conversation with someone this dense.
potatochipsfox t1_iu5y3yr wrote
> Here's my memory
Who gives a shit what your memory is? You're one person in one part of a whole fucking state pretending like they can speak for everyone else. No wonder you had a bad time in school, you don't know how to shut up and listen, and you don't know how a damn thing works because of it.
[deleted] t1_iu7k06d wrote
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FatherofZeus t1_iu5i5t1 wrote
What is up with your fascination for military parades?
[deleted] t1_iu5jqag wrote
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Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu515qa wrote
>New teachers start at $50,000. Teachers make $150,000+ at the end of their careers. This is for 9 months worth of work.
Admin... also as I explained in seperate comment most teachers are working long term sub positions well before they are hired full time and they make less than 30k a year... it's also fairly presumptious and generous to say teachers are making 150k+ by the end of their career. What you don't realize is that's multiple masters/graduate credits, a PhD, coaching and all other additional work by year 40 if you're lucky at that point. Another fellow teacher already commented that most masters aren't even pushing salary past 65k which is ridiculous especially since we are still paying for it unlike in NY which makes districts pay for it since the state requires teachers to have a masters, they are also getting the fair pay bump in most districts outside the city as well.
murphydcat t1_iu59syl wrote
$150,000 at the end of their careers? Sweetie, you're thinking of your local cops, who can retire after 25 years of service with no minimum age.
I_Am_Lord_Grimm t1_iu539mk wrote
Substitute teacher (on hiatus) here; been subbing since 2013, was full time from 2015-2021, even taught remote through the pandemic.
The sub shortage can be explained in one sentence.
‘We don’t pay substitutes enough’
That's it. That's all. I cannot emphasize this enough.
Right now, flipping burgers both pays more, and is far less stressful.
I'm in the Philly suburbs, and most schools are only paying $110-120 a day. Some are as low as $90 - which is below minimum wage for the 7-hour time commitment. And those schools are asking us to deal with the same worsening conditions as the other teachers have already complained about here, with a single break of 20-42 minutes (maybe. there have been days that I've been outright instructed to have a working lunch) because we have to be stretched to cover every possible opportunity.
What schools are demanding of substitutes is not worth the pithy compensation. Not remotely.
And instead of actually allocating funds to get qualified coverage at competitive rates, all that our school administrations are doing is complaining and downplaying the situation by claiming that it's bad everywhere.
It's bad because our Boards are making it bad. By choice.
This isn't the teachers. This is our elected Boards of Ed and upper management.
If staff were actually a priority, if faculty well-being were actually a priority, if the safety of students were actually a priority - if having basic coverage was actually a priority - they'd pull the money from somewhere else to make it happen.
But no, the football team that hasn't won a game in three years is far more important.
Pigsin5pace t1_iu5leuu wrote
I work in consumer science and my panelists get paid the same about (~$120) for 8 hours of work to sit and chew gum. No stress involved, in fact they do it to de stress. Insane that education is so undervalued! Like does everything have to be become privatized so parents and community leaders can't bitch about their taxes going toward something that doesn't directly benefit them?! The whole situation is incredibly fucked and is not complicated or hard to understand. Pay people appropriately for their work and invest in future of our children.
apathy_and_scorn t1_iud7o1t wrote
Hey, hiring any more panelists? 🤣
Pigsin5pace t1_iuddqr5 wrote
Lol always honestly if you're interested look up sensory spectrum think they're based across the US
peregrine_swift t1_iu6j9qr wrote
Former sub here! Absolutely every word is truth. Plus, constantly being asked to go off-site without being paid more!
Kab9260 t1_iu43f0p wrote
The biggest source of stress that I’ve observed is that kids got used being spoon-fed the answers to everything and their parents got accustomed to the same. There’s no engagement in the learning process and parents put the burden on teachers to overcome this (instead of demanding accountability from their kids). Kids are struggling to solve problems on their own.
We need to rethink secondary education. It should be preparing students to solve problems, learn on their own, and be a functioning adult. Instead, the purpose is just college admissions (even for students who aren’t ready for college or would find a better fit in the trades). We need to break free of the post secondary educational industrial complex.
SyndicalistCPA t1_iu46v3v wrote
Not even college admissions. Kids are being taught to pass standardized tests instead of how to think and process information and if they fail the school gets less money. Add to that, that class rooms are too big and teachers are underpaid for how vital they are too society (unlike police, which take up huge chunks of a town's budget). Then you have the administrative bloat. Just an entire recipe for disaster.
RosaKlebb t1_iu6jxun wrote
Even the SAT over the years has gotten piss easier compared to past generations of it when you’d actually get nailed for incorrect answers and the “omit” option was a matter of score preservation.
I could almost half ass be convinced it was intentional to pad numbers and have more kids being eligible for schools that cost more, ultimately feeding the loan beast.
Dirtycoinpurse t1_iu4erar wrote
I am a sub across a few districts. I feel bad declining teachers, but I’m always going to prioritize the higher paying districts over the others. Some of the schools are waiting on me getting the full-time cert as well. Some districts pay below $100 a day and don’t get subs. I’d love to go to other schools, but I have bills.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu4tc5o wrote
Yep also lots of districts hiring long term leave replacements are significantly underpaying them (still paying per diem after 30 days as well which is illegal in NJ) as well as avoiding giving them health insurance (also illegal if they've been working 30 days).
Just some math for those that do not understand how shitty it is to be a sub. Pre covid subs were making min $80-90 per diem during covid it was around 165 and 200 for working in unsafe conditions, now it's back down to 100 per diem. Let's assume a sub is working the whole month for $100 per diem, that's roughly $2500 per month (and even less since they don't get paid holidays like regular staff and only 1 sick day per month), that's less than 30k annually closer to 20 k really because of summer and winter breaks.
There are lots of people that wanna become teachers that didn't go to school for it or are even unsure and subbing is really the only way to get that experience. For many professional teachers this is also the only way we find permanent work and it's by means not sustainable at all in a state like NJ.
Dirtycoinpurse t1_iu4xuh0 wrote
Yes, Passaic and Morris counties still pay well, but Sussex and Warren have paid like shit (even during the pandemic). Resource teachers end up having to cover for teachers who don’t have subs which is obviously bad for children who need their resource classes. Schools won’t find subs for less than $150 a day especially when districts like Dover pay $250 for full time subs.
yayscienceteachers t1_iu71aed wrote
Teacher here and you gotta do you. I have absolutely never faulted a sub for not accepting a job
Sirkitbreak99 t1_iu4arkk wrote
Oh thank God! I thought the article was about a shortage of submarine sandwiches at first glance.
diresandwich t1_iu4o4rj wrote
Ngl I saw the NJ subreddit and the words sub shortage and that's exactly where my mind went
Metal_Massacre t1_iu5kmpc wrote
Personally I'd call it a hoagie shortage but maybe that's me growing up closer to Philly than NYC
diresandwich t1_iu5kw9e wrote
Forgive me, I'm a Midwest transplant
ansky201 t1_iu4fvpv wrote
It's not just about the books and tests. Our physical school infrastructure is literally crumbling. I have friends that teach in schools with no air conditioning and teachers go home sick during the warmer months. In this state we love to boast about how great our schools are, yet in 2022 we have entire schools with no air conditioning. I have friends and family in other states with lower ranked districts, yet these students are entering classrooms in modern, state of the art school buildings. We are not spending money wisely in this state. Hundreds of individual school districts with top heavy administrative spending.
WaltzThinking t1_iu5f08r wrote
I was a teacher in NJ and have multiple high school subject area certs plus a bilingual endorsement. I love teaching and have even been awarded "teacher of the year". I quit last June and I'm so glad I did. The question I faced year after year was: Should I sacrifice all my free time and work 80 hours per week for no additional pay to protect children in poverty from being burdened by the failures of our society or should I ignore and numb myself what's happening to kids and do the minimum to get my pay check and have a life or should I leave and devote myself to tackling some other important problem that has any actual chance of succeeding? I picked option 3 and left the field. I'm still in public service but now in local government supporting small time entrepreneurs where I have more resources and support to effect positive change. I ended up making more positive impact for less headache outside the absolute mire of education.
Basedrum777 t1_iu5bwul wrote
My wife would quit if she could and she's in the best school district in America.
She had a student drop down from honors to regular geometry and their parents are arguing all their grades up to now shouldn't count and they should just have to retake the 1 test cp geometry has done so far. What kind of fucked up logic is that?
She hated it but we need her pension so that when my high stress job kills me she can live on.
felipe_the_dog t1_iu5ssqv wrote
Wait the kid changed classes and they want to count the grades from his old class for his new class? I think I agree with the parents. That makes no sense. He should be graded on the same material as everyone else in CP Geometry.
Basedrum777 t1_iu619im wrote
He took and failed several tests/quizzes in honors. He decided he couldn't handle it and dropped down. The tests he took in honors don't just disappear. He earned those grades so he gets to keep those grades. It's always been in the policy like that to discourage people trying to shove their kids up a level when they're not capable.
mjabed600 t1_iu5jsi4 wrote
What the hell is wrong with these parents? Why do you think your little shits are angels and can never do any wrong. Why do you treat school as a day care? Why are you always looking for the next opportunity to sue a teacher? Also, any admins here? Why do you all suck so much? You should have teacher's backs but you refuse to. Why??? If we run out of teachers completely do you admins think you'll have a job? I feel bad for the undergrads currently going through an education program. Too bad no one will warn them about this shitshow
hedgerow_hank t1_iu5r4tq wrote
"Starving out" actual teachers is how the right wingers take over education. You'll notice desantis using military and cops.
Pledging allegiance to the swastika.
Either-Profession-13 t1_iu4xh38 wrote
Pay them.
Supers, principals, and assistant principals never taught a day in their lives, have mostly MBA's and are paid handsomely to be go betweens with lawyers who want to sue school districts representing parents who can't parent.
theusernameicreated t1_iu59us5 wrote
Sure, but we're going to need to raise your property taxes again.
Either-Profession-13 t1_iu5goux wrote
Yeah you convinced me. I'd trade the betterment of our kids future and the country to pay fewer taxes right now.
theusernameicreated t1_iu5r0sf wrote
How much do teachers want to be paid to read off a slide everyday?
They don't even know. They just want more, more, more.
$50k starting up to $150k is normal in the public sector especially given the terrible reading-off-the-slide powerpoint presentation state of education in the schools and 3 months off every year + vacation + sick time.
All these terrible, toxic teachers complaining about how they're forced to be accountable to metrics and grade assignments is a symptom of the illness.
Crazy-Insane t1_iu6khu1 wrote
I'm not an educator so don't hold it against the profession when I say this, but you are in every single sense of the word a lying retard.
Fuck you and your embarrassing lies.
Either-Profession-13 t1_iu755qs wrote
That's like saying blood pressure is normal when compared to the rest of the morbidly obese US population.
The current rates are not optimal for a healthy population.
What would you suggest as a normal livable salary?
[deleted] t1_iu7brpy wrote
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Either-Profession-13 t1_iu7e0td wrote
At least it keeps pace with inflation
Basedrum777 t1_iu5g1x6 wrote
I believe they're saying cut admins and raise teachers salaries
Either-Profession-13 t1_iu5gqql wrote
Gold star
MarketingFunny6880 t1_iu5pqlz wrote
I won’t let my children become teachers, my husband is a teacher and makes significantly less than me, works 7 days a week, while I work 5, his benefits are not that attractive any longer and his district goes through principals like underwear (last 2 were complete worthless monsters- one had harassed us when I was in the hospital in labor so she can go to hell) He’s been there for over 15 years and this year he gets physically assaulted over 7 times a day bc his principal won’t help him get the troubled kid classified. (He tallies how many times a day he is punched and kicked, how many kids are assaulted and other teachers as directed by his principal) and when submitting that data the specialists pass it along stating not enough data (he’s been collecting data for 3 months and submitting daily incident logs per the specialists requests). It’s upsetting. What happens when the kid tries to stab another with scissors? He already has punched them in the neck!! He has a 20 page report going out in the next few days as he cannot emotionally or physically take it anymore which will go viral in a few weeks.
[deleted] t1_iu7lp3p wrote
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likesomecatfromjapan t1_iu5divd wrote
I'm a teacher, and I used to love it. I hate it now. And NJ is one of the better states to teach in.
Lopsided_Blueberry10 t1_iu5iwb0 wrote
I was about to sign up for substitute teaching at my old school district (i’m 22 just graduated college and having trouble finding a job) but the sign up process for substituting was over $70 and I can’t afford it.
felipe_the_dog t1_iu5t7mi wrote
What's that fee for? A background check?
Lopsided_Blueberry10 t1_iu6ge7o wrote
yup and finger printing
Larbear06 t1_iu5pbn6 wrote
Try being a nurse! This year HR said no bonus or raise this year. I gotta retire asap.
cat_atomic t1_iu5wg9u wrote
I teach Art in a school in NJ and it's getting pretty bad for me. Just this week alone I was sent to cover 4 classes while the teachers had their prep (doesn't make sense though because at those times, I should've been in other classes. So now those teachers have missed their preps). It's only October and I feel so burnt out already. Just keep telling myself that it's not for me, it's for the kids.
StewofPuppies t1_iu6m9gs wrote
If you ask me, many of the modern society's most important roles are being gutted because there's no pay for them.
If you think this is gross, wait till you see what conditions many patients are living right now because of staff shortage in healthcare due to low pay and bad work conditions. On top of that you're the most likely to get assaulted aside from cops answering domestic calls. And for the most part society thinks low pay for healthcare workers is fixed because travelers made bank in covid. You got people wiping shit and having 30-50 patients to clean getting paid the same amount subs are getting paid. Say bye bye to a pain-free day without back pains.
I get capitalism is the best utility to Prop a society out of poverty but our current state of capitalism is literally causing our society to implode.
OtherwiseOMG1 t1_iu9ud77 wrote
If things keep going the way they are there will come a time where there are no more college students looking to graduate from any education program. But it starts on a hyper-local level, if you want your kids to have a good education you can’t vote against every referendum to increase property taxes. If you concede that yes, paying more will help your children (and if you have none, the children in your community), it’s easier to accept. Unfortunately, most communities want it both ways, shouting “pay teachers more” yet being unwilling to pay a couple hundred dollars more per year to allow this to happen.
Most importantly, if you truly want change run for a school board seat and implement the changes you want to see. One statistic showed that in 2016 53% of school board members in NJ had been re-elected more that three times. And over over 50% of those board members continued to win simply because they were unopposed. There was no one else running for that seat.
Local politics may be boring but we all need to get much more involved in our communities. There is very little we can do to affect change at the national level aside from voting. But things going on in our own backyard, we can have a much greater impact on.
So go out and do something about the teachers in your district being unable to take a sick day for fear of not getting a sub.
ccastald14 t1_iu53we0 wrote
Every day I thank myself for switching my major from education to nursing. Nursing has its struggles but at least I could support myself in this state on a nurse’s salary and there’s much more variety and avenues for growth. So sad.
CreatrixAnima t1_iu54boa wrote
I subbed once. I made $60 for the full day. Before taxes. Nope
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu5fmos wrote
Subbing starts at $85 thats a state law, please report the district to the state or DOE. Companies like ESS keep getting away with this because people never bother to report it. They screwed me over with health benefits I was never offered for a year long position!
Basedrum777 t1_iu5i0ky wrote
It may have been 2+ years ago when the $$ was lower
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu5mvt3 wrote
Nope it wasn't it's always been 85 min as I subbed in college years ago.
Basedrum777 t1_iu5rixc wrote
My wife is a teacher and subbed in college 2000-2004 for $60/day.
Time is long .
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu5t210 wrote
You're going from 2 years ago to twenty years ago man.
Basedrum777 t1_iu61gra wrote
I just mean they said in the past. This all got updated with COVID and it's different for every district (although as you said there's a minimum,). My point was you and I both have no idea when they did this subbing so telling them it was under the minimum isn't right.
CreatrixAnima t1_iu6cb97 wrote
It was four years ago, and a private school so…
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu6fs44 wrote
Granted it is private, they still have to follow labor laws.
CreatrixAnima t1_iu6xl8a wrote
Yeah but they’re not subject to the laws that govern public schools. This was probably in 2017. But it was 60 bucks.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu6xz5r wrote
The law is for substitutes it does not distinguish between the two, I was subbing in 2017 as well. Did you perhaps not have a county/sub cert or no other state licenses at the time?
CreatrixAnima t1_iu6yetz wrote
Private school. It was a Catholic school and they paid dirt. I met all the qualifications.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu6ylgt wrote
Then they were breaking labor laws. Private/religious or not they have to abide by state labor laws.
CreatrixAnima t1_iu6yw6e wrote
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu6z8j8 wrote
This is not NJ state guidelines so generalizations like this don't really apply. The state law is the state law.
CreatrixAnima t1_iu6zxbq wrote
And I didn’t serve in New Jersey. You made an assumption. But the fact is, nationwide, substitute teachers get paid crap. $85 a day is still crap for someone that’s expected to have at the very least a bachelors degree.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu709s1 wrote
You're posting and replying in r/newjersey where the fuck do you think we're talking about ??? It's absolutely shit I never disagreed with that either I've been repeatedly saying we need to be paid more.
CreatrixAnima t1_iu71wl8 wrote
There you go. Substitute teachers get paid crap.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu71zmd wrote
I never disagreed with that wtf is wrong with you.
jkurl1195 t1_iu6scz8 wrote
ESS doesn't determine the daily rate, the district does. ESS tacks on a fee for each day. I work as a sub for ESS and get 175/day. IDK about issues with health benefits.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu6umdp wrote
They were supposed to offer the districts health benefits and they were not, it was completely different. The issue with wages is the state requires that subs that work more than 30 days in one school/district they are supposed to transition you onto a salary plan, ESS did not despite working a year in one school. ESS sucks.
aden_feifdom t1_iu5imey wrote
question for teachers: what would you say is the biggest problem with the district/administration, and also what is the biggest problem with parents? out of parents and district, what is a more bothersome issue of the two? thanks for your feedback
AllThoseSadSongs t1_iu63n0r wrote
Admin thinking we will just find solutions if they ignore our concerns.
Parents blaming me for everything in a very traumatic manner. For instance, a kid gets hurt by accident (say by falling on the walk across the pavement to the playground), that must mean I'm an abuser, and I am threatened with being reported to the state. I have been accused of not letting a child go to the bathroom for six hours (we go as a class every two hours with witnesses). I could go on for days of how I am accused wrongfully of literal abuse on a weekly basis and threatened with legal consequences for "my actions". Imagine being told that every week?
[deleted] t1_iu6mqmn wrote
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AnNJgal t1_iu6hxwu wrote
So sad. We are losing great educators and have barely any pipeline to fill these positions.
Wishilikedhugs t1_iu7icc2 wrote
My mother was a special ed teacher and retired a few years ago. The school district has been asking her to come back and sub part time ever since but she wanted to just enjoy retirement with my dad. Unfortunately, he passed away 4 months ago and she's gotten bored and lonely so she took them up. Apparently they're so desperate, she's making nearly as much per hour as a sub as when she left.
enokeenu t1_iu8p3a7 wrote
My one child is about to graduate high school and be out of the state school system. Its so freeing to not have to worry about this topic again.
hindicursingfun t1_iu5e8bk wrote
No one wants to deal with their jobs these days. Cops are leaving in droves and apparently no one wants to be one. Teachers are having issues after the hardships that were put on students and parents during the lockdowns. Why do I see the path this is going 🤔🤔🤔🤔 Also it seems that the youth hate the military now as well? Where does that leave this country.....
cody0341 t1_iu46l8a wrote
Well good thing they have summers off.
Jake_FromStateFarm27 t1_iu4o33b wrote
Stfu we all work during the summers planning for the new year and have to take second jobs to afford living in this state. We either have to budget for several months or take a decrease in monthly payments just to get a pay check from July to August.
BigDavey88 t1_iu4rcvx wrote
You wouldn't last one week teaching. Fraud.
pleuvonics t1_iu4ttlz wrote
Most teachers work thru the summer.
Crazy-Insane t1_iu54tgn wrote
Yeah, this bullshit will never work again no matter how stupid some people might seem to be.
Thanks to Chris Christie repeating horseshit like this over and over educational grunt workers (this specifically excludes admins) are still bringing home the same take home pay they were in 2010. All because the poor, poor private sector had to take it on the chin for a year or two during the recession. Now those greedy, underqualified pigs are raking in higher salaries then ever as they look down their nose.
You can fuck right off with your 'summer vacation' routine.
TheWalrusIsMe t1_iu7cq6v wrote
**are unemployed and receive no paycheck, so need to find ways to earn money at a temporary job during the summer
[deleted] t1_iu5fmt5 wrote
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caesar____augustus t1_iu616gy wrote
Cool, I'll let you know when I don't have to work during the summer
Aforcedrecall t1_iu55cds wrote
You really hit a nerve lol I love it.
Basedrum777 t1_iu5go6v wrote
I can explain why this logic is bullshit but people who hate teachers don't care WHY they hate teachers, just that they do.
biogradfromRU t1_iu75k9z wrote
Okay let's hear it.
Basedrum777 t1_iu7bbfi wrote
Alright so let's play out a teachers set up vs say an accountant. Nothing special nothing unique.
I'll use myself and my wife since I know the numbers.
1st thing to understand is that there are not well paying or even mildly reasonable jobs that are available for 2 months in the middle of the summer. So even in some magical world where they don't have planning and other shit to do to get ready in the summer at most you're earning what? $600/week for 8 weeks? So $5k for the summer to try to work?
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I made $92k as an accountant in year 4. My wife as a teacher can NEVER reach that number even with a masters and 30 extra credits. Not after 25 years of teaching . I made that with no masters no CPA just 120 college credits. Her regular teaching degree took more.
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Even doing the math on pension to count her pension salary and add it over her work salary annually and even if you grossed up her salary for 10/12 months ( which is nonsense but whatever) she will never come close to the earning power of someone with a college degree like hers.
This doesn't even consider the shit teachers are put through and the dozens of hours outside the classroom they do that isn't counted.
MotorboatingSofaB t1_iu48bo5 wrote
Teachers are literally the backbone of this country and they are treated like shit. It makes no sense whatsoever. They are the ones shaping kids lives and they get little to no respect and not enough compensation for the work they put in