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structuremonkey t1_iyb6hly wrote

So, without reading, I'm assuming car theft was legal before? Seems off...


qbanboi t1_iyb71fe wrote

"The proposed ordinance would make it illegal for a person to be standing in a driveway within 20 feet of a vehicle that he or she does not have permission to enter. It would penalize attempted thefts by making it illegal to peer into a vehicle's window, pull on a door handle or use a device that could alert the person to a key fob left in the vehicle"


structuremonkey t1_iyb7mud wrote

I read it after my comment... ( i usually get stopped by the app paywall) i think its a slippery slope legally. I agree something needs to be done, but as described in the article it seems weak...but I'm no attorney...

So in theory, a dog walker walks thier dog on my lawn, which happens to me like daily, and happens to be within 20 feet of my car...I can have them arrested?? Hmm....


double_chicken OP t1_iybdgv4 wrote

I think you’re right on it being a slippery slope. It seems like it can be used on almost anyone going on a walk.

From what I keep seeing, people either leave their key fobs in their car or leave their cars unlocked. This ordinance could’ve been avoided if people locked their cars and kept their keys with them like they should be doing already.


Mysticpoisen t1_iycekkc wrote

We already see arrests of minorities 'acting suspiciously' near vehicles, this just gives them greater justification. Terrible idea.


Ryanthecat t1_iyco1ix wrote

That is exactly what this sounds like, just another reason for cops to stop and question anyone they’d like. My suspicion is this has far more to do with additional police overreach than actually trying to help the problem.


whatsasimba t1_iyehipi wrote

That's what I was thinking. I live in a very dense little city, with lots of homes that come up to the sidewalk. You can touch people's cars from the sidewalk, not even including street parking.

This feels like some "discretionary" stop and frisk to me.


lost_in_life_34 t1_iybe9dp wrote

since you have a business relationship and they are at your home for that then no. if the dog walker comes over at another time like the middle of the night and tries to open your car and you get them on camera, then yes


structuremonkey t1_iybf8ip wrote

No no...ha ha, not a hired dog walker, just the random people on the street...I have so many in my neighborhood that will literally trespass deep into my property because their dog " likes my grass"... I get annoyed if they get between and too close to the cars, ill admit...

there are already tresspass laws, and theft laws on the books. This local ordinance to me seems well intended, but poorly thought through...


randygiles t1_iye545n wrote

We don’t need more laws to be selectively applied for harassment. Don’t leave your damn keys in your car people. Let’s have some personal responsibility, these cars aren’t broken into.


asecuredlife t1_iyf9b5s wrote

To be clear, the issue here isn't necessarily leaving keys in cars.


thirtythr33 t1_iydixas wrote

It’s always been very difficult to prosecute criminal car theft in NJ. How do you prove they intended to steal the car rather than just move it, take it for a joy ride, etc. beyond a reasonable doubt? For that reason the courts usually allow prosecutors to plea it down to far less consequential charges.


973reggie t1_iyeh8qf wrote

That’s simply not how these things get adjudicated. Never has someone been let off because they stole a car but said there intended to ‘just move it.’

This isn’t going after car theft per se because the people that would violate this ordinance haven’t stolen anything yet. There’s a reason we have a burden of proof. Every person who peeks thru a window shouldn’t be charged with car theft ..


trixiewutang t1_iybnfni wrote

it’s because the residents of Holmdel refuse to take their keys out of their car when they go inside anywhere so this law would be pretty useless to stop stupidity.


Zajac19 t1_iydjn0x wrote

They’ve had multiple home invasions in holmdel to get the key phob. This isn’t the residents fault it’s almost 5 out of 7 nights a week in Holmdel now


trixiewutang t1_iydon1b wrote

It’s been going on for 5+ years though. I have a lot of family in Holmdel and most car thefts there are people leaving their keys in their vehicles. I haven’t heard anything about home invasions to get key fobs though, that’s insane.


Zajac19 t1_iydovc6 wrote

there was one by CBA a few weeks ago and then one by bell labs as well. They enter the house because the value of the car is worth It. But definitely people need to stop leaving the keys out!


trixiewutang t1_iydpaz5 wrote

That is crazy as shit. I’ll warn my family to be extra careful. Thank you


lost_in_life_34 t1_iybeeh0 wrote

I leave my car open accidentally once in a while but who leaves their FOB in a car? is it that hard to keep it in a purse or a pocket or on you all the time?


maybe cause I grew up in NYC in the 80's I'd never do this


Nexis4Jersey t1_iyboswm wrote

It seems over the pandemic people lost there common sense.. Someone hiring up on the crime task force in Newark said that a lot of the cars ending up in Newark were stolen while people left them running while they went into a store or restaurant to buy something...then there was wave of thefts last year in a small town on LI and it turns out most of the cars were unlocked , had the key fobs or keys left in them....I really don't understand it..


AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_iycizf3 wrote

People leaving their cars running isn't a COVID thing, it's a stupid people thing.

I never understood it, but they always have some dumbass rationale why they do it. It wastes gas to start it, or it's better for the car...


onelten t1_iyck7sx wrote

i think it’s often ex-ny’ers who leave the cars unlocked with keys in it. i live in an area with several neighbors from new york who are convinced jersey is the country and they don’t have to worry about anything.


Senior-Sharpie t1_iyczgbf wrote

Nobody with any brains would do that. If your car is unlocked with the fob inside and gets stolen insurance will not cover it. (Nor should they) might as well put a sign on the windshield “steal me please”.


lost_in_life_34 t1_iyd2kc2 wrote

Bergen the cops have to tell people not to leave FOB's in their cars cause people had luxury cars stolen like that


MassiveStomach t1_iydr60j wrote

if your car is unlocked with the fob in it and it gets stolen its covered by your insurance. i'm unsure where you heard that.


Senior-Sharpie t1_iydweno wrote



973reggie t1_iyei9wk wrote

Well it’s not true. Of course it’s covered. Obviously everything’s in the spectrum from smart to stupid, but as long as it’s not FRAUD.. your car is covered.


Senior-Sharpie t1_iyen7x8 wrote

Only if you have comprehensive coverage.


973reggie t1_iyeopvz wrote

Ok idk what your trying to say at this point.

Yes, only certain insurances cover theft.

If your insurance DOES cover theft, it covers it under basically any circumstance then fraud. Leaving your key in the car on accident, or your car running by itself longer then you thought, etc are among the most popular causes for car theft.

But my first point stands.. insurance covers stupid people too. It doesn’t cover malicious people who are trying to defraud them, but just being stupid doesn’t bar you from coverage.


Senior-Sharpie t1_iyeu9c9 wrote

What I’m trying to say is that I have heard for decades that if the car was unlocked with the keys inside and was stolen the insurer would deny the claim. I just Googled that and was surprised to see that it could be covered but only if you had comprehensive coverage so I guess you could call comprehensive coverage insurance for stupidity. Surely you can see the difference between someone breaking into a car, Hotwiring it and driving it away as opposed to opening the door, turning on the ignition and driving away. It’s basically the same as someone breaking down your door and coming in (Breaking and entering) versus opening an unlocked door and walking in (unlawfully entry).


973reggie t1_iyexppj wrote

I mean I don’t really see a difference tbh. I would see a difference if there’s violence involved or something but otherwise no, not really.

Comprehensive is the only type that covers theft, period. So if your covered for theft your covered for any kind.


BungeeGump t1_iyc3hkm wrote

Attempted burglary/theft of a car is already a third degree felony. Adding a local ordinance won’t change anything.


LiftCats t1_iycyaju wrote

County courts usually end up dismissing the 3rd degree charges in exchange for the defendants pleading to disorderly persons offenses (inconsequential). The townships have no control over this. By enacting their own town ordinance, they can control at least the prosecution of the ordinance violation in their own courts. Whether that can result in jail time seems fishy to me, but who knows.


973reggie t1_iyehr1q wrote

What do you mean by ‘the towns’? Judges adjudicate these things, not mayors or citizens.

There’s a reason we have (hopefully) unbiased third parties making the decisions. Obviously if the people most worried about this crime were the ones making the rules they would throw the book at every one who peeks in a window in there town. It’s a GOOD thing individual towns or blocks of citizens don’t have control over the courts.. not a bad thing.


LiftCats t1_iyeibmc wrote

Crimes are prosecuted by superior court judges at the county level. Ordinances are prosecuted by municipal court judges at the municipal level. Superior court judges have a single reappointment at 7 years and then they’re lifetime judges so that there’s no influence on them. Municipal court judges are basically part time employees hired by mayors and subject to whatever politics the town applies.


973reggie t1_iyeiwj1 wrote

Okay but your acting like it’s a bad thing that crimes like this are taken out of the towns hands. Doesn’t make any sense. Think about all the fucked up shit would be enforced if towns were allowed to write major legislation and then uphold it in court? Every town would have a block of powerful/rich residents that would be passing and enforcing laws that just serve there interests..


LiftCats t1_iyek17n wrote

I don't know that I'm acting like anything. My statement is based on what I perceive the town's goals and intentions to be. They are frustrated with vehicle thefts / prosecution or lack thereof, and this is a solution they are trying out. I've offered no opinion on what is right or wrong, and I added that the town's purported ability to sentence people to jail for an ordinance seems fishy.


973reggie t1_iyeo3ii wrote

It seems like you would like the towns to have more say.


LiftCats t1_iyeq657 wrote

In this case I think parts of the ordinance are likely overbroad and could be considered unconstitutional. I understand the town’s frustrations but I’m not sure this is the solution.


double_chicken OP t1_iyb4acn wrote

> The first vehicle theft attempt would carry a maximum fine of $1,000 and each subsequent attempt would result in a maximum fine of $2,000 each. The maximum jail time would be 90 days for each attempt.

> The township committee voted unanimously to introduce the ordinance and a final vote is scheduled for Tuesday, Dec. 13.


pac4 t1_iybsse8 wrote

Not a great proposal, but I guess the township is desperate to do something. There’s been an epidemic of car thefts throughout the state, and Holmdel is a particularly target rich environment because of its wealth and close proximity to the parkway (quick getaway and shoot back up to Newark). And it’s not just people leaving their fobs in their cars, there have also been a rash of break in’s, with guys (really, kids) breaking into garages or through front doors, looking for key fobs left in close proximity.

There needs to be a concerted effort from the state police and AGs office to crack down on this, because it’s statewide, but the governor hasn’t done a thing.


AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_iycjfqk wrote

Isn't this why we have Police? What is the governor supposed to do about it? Make it extra illegal?

This is a problem of enforcement.


onelten t1_iyckm46 wrote

this is cyclical-i remember the late 80’s this was a problem and then in the early 2000’s.

usually the rings use juveniles knowing the penalties are less. if they run it’s dangerous to chase them and they’re reckless - about a year ago somewhere around princeton a woman was killed when a stolen car hit her.

usually task forces and big investigations go after the rings, but so far it seems the attorney general isn’t interested.


pac4 t1_iycluq0 wrote

Local law enforcement can only do so much with the limited resources they have.


Zajac19 t1_iydjuez wrote

The problem is bail reform, they’re being arrested but they’re out the same night. They’ll use juveniles as well. The way they see It to steal a $400,000 mclaren, what’s a night in jail or a fine down the road?


AbazabaYouMyOnlyFren t1_iyerhl6 wrote

Judges have the power to decide if a suspect can be held or not. If they are a risk then they can be held until trial.

No system is perfect, how would you like to get accused of something and have to come up with $50k cash to pay out before you're convicted?

It keeps a lot of people out of jail over simple misdemeanors.


Zajac19 t1_iyerq9l wrote

Yes that’s exactly the problem, one of the recently arrested car thief’s was out awaiting trial on 6 other stolen car charges. They’re being arrested but not a thing happens after that


Zajac19 t1_iydk8lp wrote

The point of those would be to skate around bail reform, if they couldn’t pay the fine they’d have to do the jail time, as of now these guys are out the same night


BloodyShirt t1_iybesq5 wrote

They can’t catch the thieves now.. what makes legislators think they’ll be able to catch the almost thieves?


Buster_Bluth__ t1_iycvz5w wrote

As a car enthusiast if I see a car on public property and peer into it does that count as attempted theft?


shant_jan t1_iycxfsp wrote

this sounds like the kind of legal strategy a bunch of dudes came up with over a game of golf


aden_feifdom t1_iyd11o8 wrote

terrible idea, it certainly is a slippery slope. there have been times I accidentally approached a car i thought was mine. likewise, my kids have done the same thing. we currently have laws that address the issue but just like any law, criminals don’t care about the law. then comes the enforcement aspect of it. cops are paid to enforce it with lethal means. just ask Eric Garner who lost his life for selling loose cigarettes.


NHmpa t1_iyf5h7o wrote

Easier if ya just made a law for the insurance companies. If you’re car is stolen cuz it was unlocked and keys in it. Car insurance doesn’t have to pay out. All this is because the insurers are getting cranky they have to keep paying out money for cars stolen because the keys were left in it.


asecuredlife t1_iyf98yo wrote

This is going to backfire so bad.


WaterAirSoil t1_iycvdxl wrote

There are two ways to approach car theft/crime. Make it illegal for anyone to even think about stealing from/cars. Or you can address the conditions which cause people to steal from/cars.

Most crime is not committed by people whose needs are met and are just bored but by people who lack basic necessities like stable Housing, medical treatment, food, employments, etc.

In other words, crime arises out of substandard living conditions.


jerseygunz t1_iycz5qg wrote

Like most law proposals, sounds like a good idea until you read the fine print and realize this will just give cops an excuse to arrest people who aren’t doing anything. You want to stop car theft? Build a society where people don’t have to steal. If that’s to hard then what are we even doing here?


marybethjahn t1_iycz8vr wrote

Yeah, this isn’t going to work. State law takes precedence over local law; there’s a precedent already out there that this is a form of double jeopardy and towns use this to make money through fines that go to the town after the defendant is sentenced in state court.


smokepants t1_iycm4dh wrote

one of the wealthiest communities, where cops make more than 110k on average can't stop simple car theft?

sounds like a police problem to me.

anyone else this bad at their job is terminated.


lostatwork314 t1_iycyfa9 wrote

If only people would stop leaving their key fobs in their cars overnight.


Zajac19 t1_iydjy8s wrote

usually have to stop the pursuits because the thefts occur so close to commuter hours


asecuredlife t1_iyf9it6 wrote

You are getting downvoted so hard for facts. It's hilarious.