To solar or not to solar?

Submitted by Bodymindisoneword t3_10l29s0 in newjersey

Trinity solar came by a month ago. Long and short of the facts:

90$ a month, we spend average 103$ now on electric

Join the solar program and pay no lease or buying panels costs.

Pay 90$ a month for the next 20 years for electric, caveat is if we use more than the panels generate we pay pseg the difference but the panels will generate double what we have used in 2022 according to their report...

The roof has a ten year warranty from trinity, if/when it is time to replace the roof Trinity removes and stores the panels until it can be reinstalled.

The panels have a 25 year warranty.

First time home owner, roof is 14 years old and I cannot make a decision.

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llamasnkiwi t1_j5vr0r6 wrote

The details of the program you're describing are vague. However, this is either a solar lease or PPA, both of which are rarely advantageous for the homeowner (with some exceptions).

If you're interested in solar I would recommend purchasing or financing solar. I would also recommend doing more research on reputable solar installers in your area.

I built a solar calculator that will show you a complete financial analysis for solar that is based on the weather in your area and your exact utility rate. I made a version of this calculator that doesn't require any personal information from you other than your zip code (for the weather data). I won't post the link here as I assume that I can't promote the company I work for. However, if you're interested in getting a better understanding of whether or not solar makes financial sense for you DM me and I will send you the link.

I will add that some times when you have a low electric bill it can make it more difficult for solar to make sense for you depending on the cost of the system. It's important to find the sweet spot of cost such that you can estimate a positive net present value after factoring in incentives and savings.

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Bodymindisoneword OP t1_j5vrag0 wrote

This is tremendously helpful. I am going to discuss calling it off for now. I need to do my own research more thoroughly and get a second summers data. I will pm you for that link if ya don't ming

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Luxin t1_j5ygjwk wrote

This person sounds very helpful indeed! And I wouldn’t rent out my roof for $13 a month.

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StrategicBlenderBall t1_j5yat18 wrote

This is a good opportunity to plug energysage.com. Use them to find local installers. Definitely finance or purchase your panels.

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llamasnkiwi t1_j5ykrlj wrote

Energysage would not be helpful if you wanted to see an accurate estimation of your savings with solar. Their are significantly more accurate and informative estimators online that you can use for free.

Energysage could be one resource for researching reviews on local installers, but it’s important to find reviews from multiple sources. Companies can choose to focus on a select few online review platforms to attempt to boost their ratings. A good company would have a positive rating among several different review platforms.

Finding NABCEP certified solar installers is an unbiased way to making sure the company you choose is a high quality installer. Having a NABCEP certification doesn’t automatically make your company perfect or immune to wrongdoing. However, this certification is a symbol that the company is going the extra mile to provide quality service.

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StrategicBlenderBall t1_j5ylums wrote

I used EnergySage to research what panels would fit my need in ideal circumstances and just for general research. It’s a good tool for a conscious consumer to get a grasp of what’s what. I ended up not getting solar only because of the composition of my roof (metal shingles, super cool but nobody will touch it lol) but at least I know what to go for when I eventually do an addition and change the roof to a standing seam.

I did have a few companies come out to give estimates before they all said no way with the roof and they were pleasantly surprised when I had some knowledge of what I was looking at. One company in particular was trying to sell me a brand I knew was leaving the PV market, so when I opted to ask for an alternate brand (Panasonic) they were happy to help me price it out and ended up being cheaper. But, no solar for me until I do that addition lol.

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Ghost_of_P34 t1_j5uiewq wrote

I did something similar and don't regret it for a second. We went ahead and got powerwalls as well after, so now any excess is stored first, then sold back to PSEG.

My only regret is that we got the panels shortly after moving in, so we didn't have enough data to support more panels and now we don't have enough panels.

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Bodymindisoneword OP t1_j5vizc2 wrote

How long have you had the panels? I assume you bought the power walls?

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Ghost_of_P34 t1_j5vj828 wrote

Hmm. Since 2016 or so. We bought the Powerwalls the year after.

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MaxYoung t1_j5vq2za wrote

How many powerwalls and is it enough? If forced to choose, would you skimp on batteries, or panels?

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Ghost_of_P34 t1_j5vwy3e wrote

Well, being I don't currently have enough panels, I'd stick with my current setup vs having less PW and more panels.

I have 4 PW. It's enough for my house size. I've been the only house with power in the neighborhood a few times. I never even notice when the power goes out. The switch to PW is seamless.

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Linenoise77 t1_j5unie1 wrote

A couple of things:

  1. You have no guarantee the solar company will be around to honor their claims down the road.

  2. Those panels are tied to a lien on your house. If you plan on selling, you either need a buyer who is cool and will assume your payments (you won't find one), or you need to pay out the solar company. You will also have people who outright won't want solar roofs, because they are concerned about leaks, maintaining the roof moving forward, etc.

  3. What they are telling you they will generate assumes peak conditions. I'm going to assume you use electricity on cloudy days, at night, etc. Are YOU selling the power back to the grid, and in such an amount that your nighttime costs are covered?

I've looked into it a few times, and ONLY if you have the right type of land and roof, and ONLY if you outright buy the system, and not finance it through some rando solar company, have the numbers really made sense. Otherwise the ROI is so far out on it that by the time you get half way there, a better technology would have stepped in.

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capttony84 t1_j5uq9uq wrote

most of what you're talking about here is covered in their analysis (assuming they know what the hell they're doing). There is no mention of the TREC's/SREC's which are more valuable than the power itself.

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onlyme1984 t1_j5uvqj9 wrote

I’m not going to mention company names but my husband and nephew both work as installers. They’ve worked for a few companies over the years and each of them does some shady shit in one way or another. It’s sad that homeowners have to question the companies word but better than getting taken advantage of. Make sure you read the contract inside and out and ask 1000 questions if you need to before making a decision. Also, be sure that any promises they make verbally are in writing as well. Sounds like silly advice but I’ve heard too many stories where things were left out or worded differently than agreed upon. Feel free to pm me if you have other questions or want specific info.

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duncanmcallister4 t1_j5vamy7 wrote

What is the solar program? I bought solar for no money down, and received 30% rebate from federal (22% in 2023) which I agreed to use towards the $15k install/purchase cost (based on how many panels we installed which was based on efficency vs roof size. Don't want to buy a panel that is 95% shade). That left 10k with a relatively high solar score. It was $125 a month which was still lower than the prior electric bill and had a few months where we didn't generate enough and had a small pse&g bill. Then on top of this as an owner we received Srecs (solar credits) which are based on MWh generated. They go for about $200+ per and if you put them towards your payments it can get you to net zero pretty quickly. All in all it was 7 years to be net zero and the remaining 23yrs of our warranty to reap the benefits. It sounds to me like this company wants all the good stuff and is essentially leasing to own, leaving you with a few years of benefits.

(mobile sorry for bad grammar)

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EmbracedByLeaves t1_j5uc08s wrote

Heavily dependent on azimuth and shading. I'm going to assume it's bad based on the fact that you are saving $10 a month.

It's probably a PPA. What's your rate? Seems high. They love to sell these with escalating rates too, so check that. +1-2% per year.

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Dreurmimker t1_j5ujrpa wrote

Yeah, sounds like a PPA with the 20 year term. After that they’ve got a less-than-efficient system in their roof and Trinity has sucked all the incentives out of. Add on top that PPA panels do nothing for your property value and make it another logistic to handle if you want to sell your home.

Do yourself a solid OP, work with someone that will sell you a system and get all of the benefits.

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capttony84 t1_j5uk28c wrote

would you be owning the array and $90 covers the debt? If so the house is difficult to sell for 20 years

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Linenoise77 t1_j5uo456 wrote

When we bought about 10 years ago, we looked at a house that had solar. The system was maybe 5 years old at the time, and the owner wouldn't disclose the utility numbers to let us decide if it was something that was worth having (which means it wasn't).

We put an offer in contingent on them removing the system and a roof inspection, OR giving a concession for 10k, and another 10k in escrow for 5 years in case we needed to replace the roof.

Surprisingly they told us no. That house sat on the market for about 6 months, when everything was flying off the shelves at the time.

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capttony84 t1_j5upu7e wrote

yeah these are the issues to which I'm referring. I looked into it with one solar group and they wanted to do a 20 year loan on it collateralized by the array. In this scenario it would have negated our electric bill but the debt service was only maybe 20 or $30 less so that's not much of a savings. The sale of the TREC's was something but it was still probably less than $100 a month in savings/TREC revenue and a big headache.

Then when I want to sell the house I'd be stuck trying to get the buyer to take over the debt and if they didn't I'd have to remove the array and eat whatever was left on the loan.

Jersey is the second best solar market in the country after DC I don't know why these guys are making it so difficult. On some of my bigger commercial properties I have solar groups renting the roof and giving me the power in exchange for them keeping the TREC's. Not sure why this isn't more common on houses.

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Linenoise77 t1_j5uqkb3 wrote

Here is the thing. What do you plan on doing with the house 5 years, 10, years, etc from now.

Is 1k a year in POTENTIAL savings, worth you having a nightmare selling the house, and either having to just eat the cost out of pocket to pay it off and remove it, or drop the price to the point where a buyer will look the other way.

Like i said, it didn't deter us from putting an offer in on a house we otherwise liked, but i wasn't about to assume someone else's decision without some backing, and the fact that they weren't happily going, "Hey here is a check we get from PSE&G every month!" was enough for us.

And this isn't to shit on solar, like i said, we have looked into it. But the way to go isn't through these companies, and requires you to get out your checkbook.

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capttony84 t1_j5usaqa wrote

No I agree the only two scenarios that make any sense is a roof lease or to buy it outright. Encumbering the house with the debt is silly for what it is. Not to mention pissing off your lender.

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Linenoise77 t1_j5uvnho wrote

And while i feel NJ is somewhat insulated, if you are buying now, or recently bought, its not crazy to think housing prices can pull back pretty quickly, and suddenly any equity you have that you were planning on using to deal with the solar stuff if it comes up, is no longer there when you wake up one morning.

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Cool_Cartographer631 t1_j5x57a2 wrote

I took a real estate course on solar. Most companies it seems own the “rights” to the panels. I think the caveat is if you own the rights yourself you get the cash back in hand on any overages through selling it back to the utility company…seems like you’d make money. I also recall some scenarios presented where if you move and sell your home whatever agreement you might’ve had might change for the new owner and be renegotiated or could change based on contract term specifics to a lesser value to them.

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