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Flash_ina_pan t1_j9s433x wrote

Peace talks? Putin knows where to find peace. It's back in Russia behind their own God damned borders

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[deleted] t1_j9sfc9t wrote

[deleted]

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Dovienya55 t1_j9tffmg wrote

Hmm I seem to recall though that a lot of the early problems Russia had in the war special security action was because they didn't invade in the middle of winter. The ground was too soft for all the heavy vehicles and the inept drivers kept getting stuck so hard they had to abandon them.

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mechanicalcontrols t1_j9siv3h wrote

Here's how I see the peace talks playing out:

Xi: Maybe give Russia what they want and have a ceasefire

Zelenskyy: Fuck that. Praise the lord and pass the ammunition.

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Available_Ad1130 t1_j9st7ph wrote

Didn’t know Zelenskyy was a Tom Mac Donald fan lol.

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Ipokeyoumuch t1_j9sww89 wrote

Funny thing is that China really doesn't want to acknowledge the annexations and referendums since it is contrary to their One China policy with Taiwan. At the same time they know they are slowly being economically encircled with their actions (aka they antagonized South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, The Philippines, Malaysia, India, etc.) and need a semi-strong ally in the region, which is Russia. At the same time there are some historical claims and tensions with Russia.

That is why China has taken a more ambivalent stance (i.e. abstaining instead of voting for Russia) during most of this conflict than most people realize.

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mechanicalcontrols t1_j9uzve2 wrote

>Funny thing is that China really doesn't want to acknowledge the annexations and referendums since it is contrary to their One China policy with Taiwan.

Actually to the contrary I think China wants nothing more than Russia to succeed to justify China's own desires to annex sovereign nations that were historically their territory.

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Ipokeyoumuch t1_j9v1i6r wrote

Technically, China doesn't want to annex Taiwan per se because they already have the view that they "own" Taiwan. Thus, no annexation needed as Taiwan is just a "rebellious" providence that just so happens not to listen to the CCP. To annex means to acknowledge that Taiwan isn't under China's own control ab initio, thus no One China exists, but rather two Chinas exists., which contradicts their position. Taiwan also has the One China policy as well and as such it becomes a big elephant in the room that doesn't get acknowledged in day to day life unless saber rattling or some political maneuvering is needed.

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mechanicalcontrols t1_j9v5lqx wrote

Okay, but the international community would still view it as annexation so China is praying western aid for Ukraine wanes and Russia keeps the Donbass.

That said, if the Western aid to Ukraine is slow boiling a frog, I can damn near guarantee you the response to an invasion of Taiwan would be more like pan searing a steak.

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ProjectGnova t1_j9tjl08 wrote

Don’t see why Ukraine has any reason to give in.

The longer the invasion goes and more young men are never seen again, the more Putin has a growing target on the back of his head.

Why give that up to just give up a lot of their land. And on top of that, peace with Russia is like a pinky promise and the other guy has both hands behind their back

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WatchandThings t1_j9vikj4 wrote

I think it's more of a gesture from China to encourage NATO nations to start thinking about ceasefire and "peace". For Ukraine to continue fighting they will continously need more military equipment and NATO members are the ones paying for it(in military equipment and lack of gas). China's suggesting the easy way out for the NATO members of calling a truce where it is, which Ukraine would be forced to do if NATO supplies stop.

Of course the obvious issue is that Russia will only use the "peace" time to regroup, rebuild, and relaunch a new attack in few years, so it's a foolish to call "peace" now. Only way to make sure this doesn't happen again is for Russia to gain nothing from this act of aggression and to force them to lose something whether in territory, in reparation cost, and/or removal of leadership. Something to make it clear the act of aggression was not worth it.

Knowing this NATO nations will most likely stand firm behind Ukraine and ignore the Chinese calls for "peace".

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WallyMcBeetus t1_j9rzsn9 wrote

China: "called an end to the “Cold War mentality” — it’s standard term for what it regards as U.S. hegemony and interference in other countries."

Also China: "abstained Thursday when the U.N. General Assembly approved a nonbinding resolution that calls for Russia to end hostilities in Ukraine and withdraw its forces.

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code_archeologist t1_j9sc8au wrote

And then there is the clause about respecting borders and sovereignty... Which is codewords for allowing them to invade Taiwan without interference.

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aynhon t1_jaavo79 wrote

Or send spy balloons to North America.

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xygge t1_j9s757y wrote

What China's doing to the US is light work compared to the way they treat the rest of Asia. They do shit like force Korean or Japanese celebrities to apologize for saying "Taiwan." They randomly claim Genghis Khan to be Chinese, or various Korean kingdoms to be actually Chinese. They engage in widescale cultural appropriation. They let their factories pollute Korea and Japan, and then claim that there's actually no pollution going on. They breach international waters and fish in Korean and Japanese territory. It's honestly ridiculous.

I honestly wonder whether the world would have been better off today if Macarthur had had the stones to nuke major Chinese cities during the Korean War.

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desubot1 t1_j9usjan wrote

dont forget fake islands to increase territorial waters. that one is always funny.

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BrownMan65 t1_j9tcjgl wrote

The US bombs the Middle East for 20 years and no one bats an eye. China manufactured goods for the entire world which causes pollution by default and you’re here calling for them to be nuked? Holy shit you couldn’t be anymore of a fucking racist even if you tried. This is actually the most unhinged comment I’ve seen in a while on this site.

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[deleted] t1_j9s7l6q wrote

[removed]

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jens-2420 t1_j9spkem wrote

Be reasonable. McArthur was a personal pussy who fled from his soldiers. Then wanted to install fascism in the USA, starting with a nuclear war.

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CulturalWindows t1_j9s853s wrote

Lmao, South Korea's own government did a study that showed most of the pollution in South Korea is from South Korean factories after South Korean companies claimed they weren't polluting and that it was all China.

South Koreans bullied a Chinese Kpop singer for saying " Happy Chinese New Year" and made her do a public apology.

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xygge t1_j9s9rpy wrote

>South Koreans bullied a Chinese Kpop singer for saying " Happy Chinese New Year" and made her do a public apology.

Big difference between random South Korean netizens bullying a Chinese K-Pop singer, and literal establishment CCP outlets and media institutions pushing forth revisionist nonsense, or the CCP government itself threatening to shut down Korean factories in China because some K-Pop star said something about Taiwan.

If you want to point out ridiculous bullshit China has done in the modern day versus what Korea or Japan has done, you're in a losing battle. A state media organization chastised BTS for not thanking China for their role in the Korean War, even though the Chinese are the reason the Koreas are split, and fought on the opposite side of the South Koreans. It's ludicrous. The Chinese government itself believes that it has the power to police what native Koreans or Japanese say on their own soil. They set up secret police stations. It's insane.

China has absolutely no shame. Everything China does is ludicrous and self-serving. There's a reason why any diaspora Chinese you meet, whether in Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia, or Indonesia, will go to great lengths not to tell you that they're Chinese. Even other ethnic Chinese don't want to be associated with the CCP. There's a reason that the Koreans now hate China even more than they hate Japan (which is truly saying something), and why China is the least-liked country in Japan.

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CulturalWindows t1_j9sateu wrote

>literal establishment CCP outlets and media institutions pushing forth revisionist nonsense

You mean like when South Korean mainstream media outlets mistranslated Chinese press celebrating pickled cabbage from sichuan as "Kimchi" and then started saying China is stealing Kimchi from Korea?

>even though the Chinese are the reason the Koreas are split

You can thank MacArthur for pushing too close to the Chinese border for that.

Also, Korea would have been united under the north if the US didn't get involved.

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Art-Zuron t1_j9tseef wrote

Oh no! North Korea isn't bigger than it could have been! What a shame.

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xygge t1_j9wryrt wrote

>You mean like when South Korean mainstream media outlets mistranslated Chinese press celebrating pickled cabbage from sichuan as "Kimchi" and then started saying China is stealing Kimchi from Korea

Again, there's a big difference here, because Chinese media, unlike Korea's, is essentially an arm and institution of the State.

And you and I both know that the Chinese would openly claim and steal kimchi if it weren't enshrined in UNESCO as a cultural heritage of Korea. Just as they steal everything. We're talking about a group of peole who claim Genghis Khan was Chinese, because he conquered China. Or who claim that hanbok is part of Chinese history, because their are Korean ethnic minorities living in China. Who pay exorbitant fees to have Korean directors come to China and teach their idiot leaders how to make movies and pop music. It's a shameful disgrace.

>Also, Korea would have been united under the north if the US didn't get involved.

You have to be top-tier stupid to think that would be a good thing. Just compare the two Koreas today, and you will easily find your answer to which side of the war should have won and unified the peninsula.

Had China not gotten involved, Korea would have been unified under a government that experienced the most ridiculous increase in standards of living and financials of any modern country today. The North would be free, families wouldn't be split, and the millions of people suffering under the Kim dictatorship in the North, spending their lives living in fear, would be free to watch dramas, or go to K-Pop concerts and cheer on their favorite idols. Instead, they're saluting the Kim family and making sure not to get caught watching bootlegged dramas, else they'll be shot dead in a public execution.

I'll never understand you tankies. Is the five cents really worth it that much? Perhaps you can spend it on some bing chilling.

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thedracle t1_j9tic4o wrote

Yeah, let's end the cold war mentality and return back to the World War II mentality of appeasement.

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bjran8888 t1_j9sndhd wrote

The United Nations government voted to ask the United States to lift sanctions against Cuba.

Nearly 200 countries around the world were in favor, with only the United States government and Israel opposed.

However, the United States government is the good guy.

The West can invite other countries to help them, but they can't and aren't in a position to force other countries to help them (at a cost).

"You must help me (pay the price for me) or you will be sanctioned"

Is this the face of a good man for the US to tell the world?

Without China, the U.S. government would be shitting on the heads of all countries, even on the heads of Americans.

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Art-Zuron t1_j9tsikw wrote

The US already does that. That's why basically the whole world hates them.

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Canadasaver t1_j9rxket wrote

China is supporting war criminal putin. China is not to be trusted.

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ITwerkForALiving t1_j9rxr04 wrote

China trying to buy time for Russia to get more ammo.

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sunnyismybunny t1_j9rwu1r wrote

China ignores calls for ending the imprisonment, enslavement, and genocide of Uyghur Muslims.

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exalt_operative t1_j9sego4 wrote

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-lifestyle-china-health-travel-7a6967f335f97ca868cc618ea84b98b9

Seems like they're making progress. While I'd rather them not be Gitmoing, Patriot Acting, and prisonslaving anyone at all, I gotta be honest. The paranoid cultural genocide to stop Muslim terrorism idea they were initially trying is over.

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henryptung t1_j9t9tfh wrote

>The paranoid cultural genocide to stop Muslim terrorism idea they were initially trying is over.

Uhhh

> A bike seller’s eyes widened in alarm when he learned I was a foreigner. He picked up his phone and began dialing the police.

> A convenience store cashier chatted idly about declining sales – then was visited by the shadowy men tailing us. When we dropped by again, she didn’t say a word, instead making a zipping motion across her mouth, pushing past us and running out of the store.

Doesn't sound to me like they've ended it at all. They've just learned to be more covert about it. Less open operation of concentration camps, more threatening people behind closed doors and a choking fear of punishment.

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opprovarun t1_j9s6yj2 wrote

What a weird whataboutism.

Guess next time America calls for something guess we can make comments about how America ending the imprisonment, enslavement, and genocide of latino migrants.

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sunnyismybunny t1_j9s7xux wrote

Your bringing up America at all here is a much more glaring whataboutism. Yes, fuck our country for their systematic prejudice and disenfranchisement against immigrants and people of color, respectively. However to compare what is going on with Latino migrants to the treatment of Uyghurs is a stretch. Latino migrants aren't treated the same in every part of the USA including in terms of their rights. Being a Uyghur Muslim in any part of China is universally a death or imprisonment sentence.

China's historical alliance/economical interdependence with USSR/Russia should spell out the words between the lines here - they couldn't give a fuck about Ukraine. Likewise their denial of any accountability or transparency regarding the mistreatment of an entire subpopulation of their people go hand-in-hand with their calls for a ceasefire - it's self-serving.

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[deleted] t1_j9s8ss2 wrote

[removed]

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sunnyismybunny t1_j9s9wbe wrote

Yes I admitted it because that's what it was. The point of my original comment was to redirect the attention from China's self-serving and disingenuous message of peace to the hypocrisy within their statehood.

Nice article from 2021 by the way. In the same article:

"It’s seen in Xinjiang’s cities, where many historic centers have been bulldozed and the Islamic call to prayer no longer rings out. It’s seen in Kashgar, where one mosque was converted into a café, and a section of another has been turned into a tourist toilet. It’s seen deep in the countryside, where Han Chinese officials run villages."

So yeah let me correct myself - not universal death sentences and imprisonment AFTER 2021, just complete denial of their beliefs and values and a stripping of the establishments that represent them without a sliver of apology or accountability.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/uyghur-groups-call-un-action-against-china-over-rights-abuses-2023-02-16/

"Did someone not learn about the China Soviet split in the 60s which was why the US established ties with China?"

Yes they split for a period of time but spent MUCH more time as allies against the West and more relevantly continue to do so today.

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opprovarun t1_j9sdpdg wrote

Oh so you won't mind that people bring up America's self-serving and disingenuous message of peace to the hypocrisy within their statehood the next time America calls for peace,

It's interesting that you immediately said Latino migrants are treated differently in different parts of the US while here you're just jumping at the chance to generalize the entirely of China based on a few anecdotes.

Nice article, let's get some more information on these groups

>Uyghur Human Rights Project was founded in 2004 by the Uyghur American Association, and have eight full-time staff.[1] The project was founded with a grant from the National Endowment for Democracy, and became a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, tax-exempt organization in 2016.[3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_Human_Rights_Project

>The World Uyghur Congress is an umbrella organization of Uyghur nationalist groups such as the World Uyghur Youth Congress, and was formed in November 1996[10]

>The Congress is funded in part by the National Endowment for Democracy or NED of the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Uyghur_Congress

−16

R-ZoroKingOFHell t1_j9s4yup wrote

I don't trust China one bit, the war ends on Ukraine's terms. The end.

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Yozhik_DeMinimus t1_j9t6fak wrote

Well, that settles it then. You have spoken, and so it must be.

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Bunch_of_Shit t1_j9s8ne3 wrote

But on who’s terms? Russia will not agree to any treaty unless it includes them keeping the land they’ve stolen.

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yamirzmmdx t1_j9rzd72 wrote

Kinda hard to have peace talks with a crazy ditactor.

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Easy_Cattle1621 t1_j9ry2mk wrote

If North America could speed up the transition to South America manufacturing base perhaps world domination might be less important to China. Migration might stabilize in the Americas as a result too.

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SameRandomUsername t1_j9sgp31 wrote

wtf are you talking about?

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SynchroField2 t1_j9stgsy wrote

Well sir, there's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

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SuperstitiousPigeon5 t1_j9t05c4 wrote

Moving manufacturing of cheap products to South America would cut the knees out from under China.

Granted China would just cut wages and subsidize its industry until the manufacturing came back and produced even cheaper crap, but that has its own problems too. Namely a populace that revolts.

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SameRandomUsername t1_j9tv39u wrote

But that will never happen... South America doesn't have a proper work culture. Costs would never compete with China.

The reason it works in China is because they can't join unions and shit and because if you don't want to work there are another 1.4 billion guys willing to do your work.

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DirkPool28 t1_j9s7tcd wrote

Russia, China, India and Iran in a four-way circle jerk.

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macross1984 t1_j9scibw wrote

I don't trust China is making an offer that will be beneficial to Ukraine.

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HappyFunNorm t1_j9sdflq wrote

I agree. Russia should immediately leave Ukraine and agree to pay reparations for their unprovoked attacks.

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Turbulent_Ad1667 t1_j9s3tap wrote

Okay, we tried.... Now we can get back to trying to avoid all the sanctions.

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Showerthawts t1_j9sa916 wrote

Sure, if Russia leaves. Easy as.

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Adventurous_Aerie_79 t1_j9smxv1 wrote

Once again Chinas voice in international politics is an utter waste of everyones time.

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jens-2420 t1_j9sq17k wrote

China just stated its position. It is not neutral but supports Russia in every way. It is not a peace plan, only a listing of own positions.

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FuckRulez t1_j9s0au7 wrote

Tell your boyfriend that

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abletofable t1_j9vjd4t wrote

Nope. Ukraine was just minding their own business when Putin decided to go in and rob Ukraine of it's peace and territory. Putin must capitulate completely.

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jonathanrdt t1_j9vmr5g wrote

Nixon should never have gone to China.

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showmiaface t1_j9vp48o wrote

Give all land back to Ukraine and reparations. Russia gets stripped of their nukes. That is the only way.

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alvarezg t1_j9w3coj wrote

Cease fire with Russia occupying Ukrainian territory? So freeze the status quo until next year when Russia rearms and resumes their invasion? That's not remotely acceptable.

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Zeduca t1_j9w3f5b wrote

How’s that cease fire with KMT coming, CCP ?

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jens-2420 t1_j9sij8e wrote

China calls for respect to both sides actually. For them there is no invader.

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Deluxe78 t1_j9tychu wrote

Looks like China has had enough and worried russia might not pay back … ok wrap it up kids

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