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NLJeroen t1_j95h2ck wrote

Reply to comment by Chippopotanuse in 1 person dies when Tesla hits fire truck on I-680, 4 firefighters injured by twelveparsnips

Probably because emergency vehicles are not around that often to have significant impact in the learning models.

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Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_j95u8sw wrote

Except other automated systems like SuperCruise and ProPilot and whatnot don’t seem to have this same issue. Tesla automation is disproportionately hitting emergency vehicles with respect to how many systems are in the market

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Koksny t1_j95utd4 wrote

Decent developers and engineers no longer want to work for balding manbaby, underpaid and overworked.

Gig for Mercedes is much better than slaving for the archcunt.

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TenderfootGungi t1_j9704bx wrote

Possibly, but they have had several incredible people leading the program. It probably comes down to Musk insisting they do it with cameras only. Everyone else also has LiDAR.

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schiffty1 t1_j96uwwo wrote

Oh no, you've angered the muskrat horde.

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VegasKL t1_j96xz98 wrote

>SuperCruise

That's also different technology afaik. I think GM maps various roads with lidar vehicles and then those maps get loaded into the vehicles for cross-referencing to their position -- done this way so they don't have to have a bunch of LIDAR units on the vehicle processing in real time. They likely have some forward facing LIDAR or Radar (or both) units.

Elon wants to be cheap and do it solely with cameras.

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razorirr t1_j95x698 wrote

Are they though?

In 2019, an estimated 2,500 vehicles crashed into firetrucks parked as blockers (6.8 crashes every day or 16% of all firetruck collisions).

https://www.workzonebarriers.com/emergency-response-firetruck-collision-crash-facts.html#:%7E:text=In%202019%2C%20an%20estimated%202%2C500,of%20all%20traffic%20fatalities%20nationwide

Tesla has had around a dozen but its over 5 years.

Theres around 2 million teslas, and they all have AP at this point. 248 million cars total. .8%. 2/2500 is .08%. So tesla is 10x better than everyone else.

Also i feel you dont hear about the others because their systems are in an insignificant amount of cars, and usable on an insignificant amount of places. Once they scale to "yeah it works everywhere" it will go up

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Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_j967fmm wrote

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/15/business/self-driving-car-nhtsa-crash-data.html

NHTSA makes manufacturers with automated assist systems in the market report crashes involving those technologies. Despite having only a minority share of ADAS in the market today, Tesla’s crashes represented 70% of the reporting.

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razorirr t1_j9685bf wrote

Cant read, paywall.

how much of a minority, and how many miles do the others have? Like ford for example is all happy their has been active for 16 million miles recently, Tesla is around 3 billion since it came out adding about a billion a year. so every 1 tesla is worth 97 fords.

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nfollin t1_j984ltv wrote

https://web.archive.org/web/20230217125554/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/15/business/self-driving-car-nhtsa-crash-data.html

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razorirr t1_j98uvkc wrote

hahahaha. that report is a news article talking about the NHTSA report i got my 2 AP crashes from.

If you take the estimated miles driven for AP, and the estimated miles driven by everything else. AP has a crash rate of .0009 per 1,000,000 miles into all first responder vehicles, and that is assuming all 2 reported in that report were tesla. all cars overall broke out to .001 per 1,000,000 miles.

So forcing everyone to use AP would reduce crashes into parked firetrucks by 290 a year or 11.5%.

So if you want to use that article as a reason against ap, feel free, as its actually a reason to ban humans and use AP.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-06/ADAS-L2-SGO-Report-June-2022.pdf

Its page 7 of nine, second chart, shows ADAS crashes per vehicle it crashed into. Further. the data in that report has the possibility of double counts, so if Tesla reported it and the police seperately reported it. its 2x times. It also does not mean "The tesla crashed into me" If you rear end a tesla, and the tesla was on AP, it goes in the report, even though it was not the teslas fault.

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nfollin t1_j98wgyn wrote

Bro, I just linked it for you, relax.

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jayfrancy t1_j95zvzu wrote

How many other autonomous systems have had these accidents. That’s the apples to apples.

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razorirr t1_j963cf0 wrote

How much do you want to actually read? I can answer this.

NHTSA has a standing order on ADAS crashes. All manufacturers are required to provide telemetry and report if a crash occurred with ADAS either on, or had been on in the previous 30 seconds. This reporting started July of 2021 and is still current.

You can read their june 2022 findings here. next report will be next june

In that whole time period, only 2 crashes were confirmed into first responder vehicles total, for any brand.

So every other article you have seen since june 21 through may15th 2022, the cutoff date in that report, is bullshit. its the press going "oh its a tesla and a responder vehicle, lets accuse AP/FSD, get a shitload of clicks from people on reddit, then not release a retraction months later when its found not to have been the cause"

As to my significantly insignificant bit. yeah, both crashes might have been tesla (the report does not break it down to that detail) But their system works everywhere, and is on way way more cars than Fords or GM. Ford was happy when they hit 16 million miles driven total. Teslas system does north of a billion a year. If tesla was both crashes on 1b miles, ford will have 0, and you can claim that "well ford is perfect" no, ford just has not had enough time to be statistically relevant.

The only other brand to have a significant amount of vehicles is Honda, with about 5 million, Their system however does not function everywhere so theres the question of are they better at not crashing, or do they just not have the crashes per mile figure out there as they have not released miles of usage figures. I can't do apples to apples with them as tesla has shown their apple, and the others all have a black box they say may or may not have a fruit in it.

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woody60707 t1_j95xg1d wrote

Look, no one has time to read your wall of text! Is Tesla bad, yes/no?

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razorirr t1_j95yrg5 wrote

Tesla great! They crash 10x less into firetrucks than all cars when figured for crashes per car. They just make the news cause dumbasses click then bitch

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TheLaGrangianMethod t1_j95zcce wrote

Does this account for the autopilot variable? Which is kind of what this whole thing is about? Tesla autopilot not seeing the first responders?

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razorirr t1_j964ohq wrote

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-06/ADAS-L2-SGO-Report-June-2022.pdf

This report does. Manufacturers are required as of july 1 to have the cars monitor when the systems were on / off. If the car crashed with it either on, or on in the prior 30 seconds to the crash to report it.

From July 1 2021 - May 15 2022. Only 2 crashes total were into first responder vehicles. It does not specify which brand had it happen. but even if it was tesla for both, its probably inevitable. Tesla reports about 1 billion miles a year where the car is driving, Ford reported 16 million in a press release.

If we find that 1 crash in 500 million miles is the average, Fords 16 million miles is only 3.2% of that miles driven. Its not that ford never crashes, its that they have not done enough driving to hit the point at which it was statistically probable to have occurred yet.

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SporkofVengeance t1_j95q0qn wrote

As the training set is basically using real cars as alpha/beta testers, that’s likely true for Tesla. Most other companies now are using synthetic data to train their AVs and so test a far wider range of scenarios.

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VegasKL t1_j96ymhz wrote

It shouldn't be an issue of training data anymore, Tesla uses a lot synthetic (3d generated) data now so they can train the same exact scenario with a ton of variables swapped out over and over again. Nvidia (IIRC) did a presentation on the tech.

Remember, they also had this issue with box trucks if I remember correctly.

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Raspberries-Are-Evil t1_j96hgmc wrote

Or because Tesla's are not "self driving." The driver is responsible for the car, and, this is no different than someone in a Honda hitting a truck and killing themselves.

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