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BigOlPirate t1_j97ch9r wrote

Wild cattle destroying the eco system: let’s break out the chopper and kill ‘em

Mean while the ranchers are letting their cows free graze and roam this same land. It’s bad for the ecosystem when the wild are cattle doing it, but just a woopsie and no consequence when ranches cut down fences and let their cattle graze on park land.

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Fickle-Hovercraft667 t1_j97lbnq wrote

Dude, I could go on about this forever. I lived in the mountains of Colorado for many years and I love wilderness camping. The problem was that BLM lets cows graze on their land.

Nothing is more frustrating than showing up at your favorite wilderness spot and having to dodge the immense amount of cow shit and then having whole herds come through your campsite.

We also had a huge wild horse population nearby that BLM decided to round up a huge amount of because “there’s not enough grazing and they’ll starve!” They used helicopters and separated foals from mothers, stallions were powerless to keep their herds safe and some were circling their captured mares and foals trying to figure out how to get them out.

Two weeks later a video was posted from the same valley and there were THOUSANDS of sheep grazing. They basically used the starvation excuse to get a majority of the wild horses out of the way so ranchers could graze their sheep with minimal grazing competition.

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dirk_on_reddit t1_j97mup6 wrote

To alleviate any confusion: BLM in this case is Bureau of Land Management, not Black Lives Matter.

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Draano t1_j97y9aw wrote

Lol. There's an airport by me with the three-letter code of BLM. Since I'm in a red county in a blue state, I thought I could stir up the local Rs by saying our D governor renamed it for the BLM vote.

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Slapbox t1_j985zdg wrote

> Since I'm in a red county in a blue state, I thought I could stir up the local Rs by saying our D governor renamed it for the BLM vote.

Please don't - you know they'll believe it and they're deep enough into their victimhood complex that it can only become worse.

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WhizEagle t1_j9e0td3 wrote

40 years ago it was sarcastically referred to as Bureau of Livestock and Mining. Corrupt corrupt corrupt

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tractiontiresadvised t1_j9e3hd9 wrote

"Livestock and Mining" is pretty much what it was designed to be, not sarcastically. It was created by the merger of the US Grazing Service and the General Land Office, the latter of which managed mineral rights (among other things).

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BigOlPirate t1_j97mznw wrote

I hate all of this. Gives me Yellowstone (only seen the 1st season) vibes with the corruption and power ranchers have in rural areas.

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SteelCityIrish t1_j97zmvr wrote

See “Ammon Bundy”

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techleopard t1_j9c68dz wrote

I said it back then and I still say it: the government encourages their BS by being too chickenshit to just kill all the unpermitted cattle from helicopter and then cut off the area and just wait. Arrest them as they come out. Seize every child present and place in foster care, because their parents only brought them to use them as meat shields.

Never understood why Oregon let people go get the second group go get supplies, it made the standoff last so much longer.

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captcha_trampstamp t1_j98sztj wrote

Then all those mustangs go into holding pens all over the west, standing around eating hay on the taxpayer dime.

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HappyFunNorm t1_j9awoit wrote

Grazing herds have been part of the ecosystem in the west for thousands of years. They've only been gone for like 100, 150 years. Thos ecosystems SHOULD have large grazing animals in them. And wolves.

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Dino7813 t1_j97gkcc wrote

They should let hunters apply for a lottery cow tag, at least someone would use the meat. It’s just wasteful.

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teahabit t1_j98d5j3 wrote

The problem is that the terrain is very tough going. If the park service of the area (BLM, Forest Service, National Park) could get the cattle out by a round up they would.

In my area of NM, we get cattle rangers to round up the feral cattle every 7 or so years. They auction off the cattle without brands. Feral cattle are quick, surprisingly quiet, and crafty dudes.

Last year we had an out of town runner get run over by one of our feral bulls. He didn't realize that you have to give them a wide berth. Even the cougars don't go after a full sized cattle. Deer are much easier prey...

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_MrBalls_ t1_j98qhgi wrote

Drop some off in the Los Padres, the lions would love it.

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IreallEwannasay t1_j991h6v wrote

Excuse me, lions? Like just roaming?

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throwawayinthe818 t1_j992szi wrote

Mountain lions. Yes, they roam their traditional range, which sometimes includes suburban sprawl.

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_MrBalls_ t1_j997ry8 wrote

Mountain lions, we treat them like celebrities in California.

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mouse_8b t1_j9b39ij wrote

There's a 200 pound difference between lions and cougers. A little bit misleading to call what we have in America a lion.

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CapableConnection141 t1_j9afekf wrote

Is the meat not donated toblical food banks? They do this in TX with feral hoga

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teahabit t1_j9ahq8j wrote

Since the cattle are not killed, there’s no donations to food banks. Nor can food banks here deal with an influx of 50 cattle. There’s no refrigerators for the meat, nor funds to butcher the cattle. Cattle are auctioned (cheaply, since it’s old), and local folks get to distribute stew meat to their friends and families.

The funds from the auction help pay for the cattle rustlers.

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theinnerspiral t1_j97hqx2 wrote

Excellent idea. I’m sure plenty would take them up on it. Not much different than a Maine moose hunt

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DanMorgan405 t1_j98e6vm wrote

Except that cows are extremely hard to kill and process compared to a deer or elk.

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sortedWanker t1_j98ko5g wrote

How so? Deer and elk are much faster and elusive prey than a cow. Also, cows, deer, and elk break down extremely similar during butchering.

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Most-Star-7094 t1_j98ncdu wrote

It's a lot more meat than a deer or elk, but I fail to see how it would be harder to kill one or butcher one.

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DanMorgan405 t1_j98siiv wrote

Having dressed and hunted (not hunting the cow) all three, there is no comparison.

They are not similar, which is why experienced hunters take their cows to a butcher instead of doing it themselves.

−12

sortedWanker t1_j98ul7l wrote

You just end up with a lot more ground meat with cow most times due to size. The larger the size of animal the longer it takes to break down. You are the first experienced cow hunter I have met and heard of.

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Jillredhanded t1_j99he0o wrote

Did a five week culinary school block on meat fabrication. Started with a hanging half. Cool af.

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DanMorgan405 t1_j9ab7wp wrote

Like I said in my post, I didn't hunt the cow. I have very unfortunately had to help butcher one. It was truly one of the worst experiences of my life.

−1

GDogg007 t1_j9bfrub wrote

I have hunted and processed all AND butchered and processed my own cattle, chicken, goat. Cows are easy, just larger. All of them break down by muscle groups.

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el_duderino88 t1_j9abud0 wrote

Yea, cow hunts are incredibly dangerous, once the feral cow senses their presence often the hunter becomes the hunted. Cows kill about 20 people a year.

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myusernamehere1 t1_j98ne3u wrote

The meat wont be wasted. It will be consumed by the local wildlife and fertilize the soil.

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psychicsword t1_j98nfbt wrote

People won't use the meat but it isn't like nothing will eat it. The wildlife will eat it.

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alias_487 t1_j98yy9x wrote

The meat would be gross. Usually you butcher/kill a cow around 2 years old. These could be older. It’s the same reason why a lot of folks don’t eat wild hogs.

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el_duderino88 t1_j9aclmj wrote

Except lots of folks do eat wild boar..

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alias_487 t1_j9avskj wrote

Lots of folks eat cow dick too. Doesn’t mean that it’s still good.

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GDogg007 t1_j9amkxm wrote

Old cows make great ground beef. They also make amazing roasts. The ribs aren't too bad if cooked right. I have ate many an "old" cow and even Holsteins. People eat old cows.

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_MrBalls_ t1_j98qd43 wrote

What would the Secretary of Agriculture think?

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TBRoma t1_j996jor wrote

So very wasteful why do this?? Nature is handling business by making Feral Cows, and the man gonna shoot the Fcows from the sky. Wtf? Why??

−6

Payorfixyourself t1_j99km5q wrote

Because they’re not native and reek havoc on the ecosystem. The only feral cows they going to allow are buffalo. Then there is the part that since they are wild range they’re eating the grass that could Be going to a cow going to actual market for food.

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_MrBalls_ t1_j97wv7k wrote

Unbranded cattle in the west?! Sounds like a cowboy's gold mine.

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timshel_life t1_j989na4 wrote

Range Wars 2.0

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_MrBalls_ t1_j98qsye wrote

California needs some cows shipped to a few of its forests. Some of our wildlife has become scarce lately anyway. Our lions are starving.

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_MrBalls_ t1_j9c83p5 wrote

Track a few cows on the internet in the Sespe would be wild. ADS, but cows?

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RetardThePirate t1_j99tv28 wrote

Fucking what? Did a bot write this stupid ass comment?

−28

Affectionate-Yam639 t1_j99y6li wrote

I’m guess with lions he means the dwindling number of mountain lion in California

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beerandabike t1_j9a6zmd wrote

I doubt it, it makes sense to me.

California low on prey.

Predators are hungry.

Send forest cows urgently.

10-4

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Tiktocktheclock t1_j98rarg wrote

Theyre usually branded from my experience. I remember driving my jeep on the mesa west of Albuquerque near that rez, and probably on the rez. Fences were none existant but lone, low grouped cows were every few miles.

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ElevatedAngling t1_j99zn8f wrote

Those are open range cows, which are owned and branded. They get collected and sold by said owner. Very different than feral cows which aren’t owned/branded and do not get collected and sold.

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rubywpnmaster t1_j9hmz31 wrote

Mmm mix those potentially diseased cattle into your healthy herd. Very bad idea.

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m_nieto t1_j97vdpm wrote

I can’t get over the fact that there are feral cows.

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mwb213 t1_j97ojff wrote

People don't realize how much of a driver of desertification overgrazing is. It wasn't historically an issue when bison and other large herbivores were more prevalent, but humans wiped them out, along with their predators. With feral cows, there's nothing really forcing seasonal herd migrations, so the vegetation never has a chance to recuperate. This is particularly notable in areas with sparse water access to drink from - they will stay near the water, overgrazing the vegetation until it no longer grows back.

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junkyard_robot t1_j9848t5 wrote

Let's not pretend that overgrazing is the issue. The issue is that these cows don't belong to the ranchers that graze their cattle on BLM land.

BLM has a long history of claiming over grazing and killing off animals, only for ranchers to release thousands of animals to graze without competition.

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eltigrechino94 t1_j97qzdb wrote

So it's a self correcting problem then? If they over graze then they starve and it isn't an issue.

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PM_ME_KITTYNIPPLES OP t1_j97snc1 wrote

It doesn't just cause the grazers to starve, it makes a bunch of other animals starve too.

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eltigrechino94 t1_j9809ip wrote

And starvation is nature's way of solving problems. Let's not pretend they care about the environment, they'll have that land full of domesticated grazers before the feral cows bodies are cold.

−11

mwb213 t1_j97wefd wrote

The weak die off, but the strong may adapt and move on, repeating the cycle in other areas.

See, the thing is, particularly in areas prone to high summer heat and direct exposure to the sun, when the cows overgraze, this not only kills off the plants, but when the plants die back, there is nothing to shade the soil. The soil then bakes in the sun, often times reaching temps above surface air temperatures. The high heat bakes other plant roots as well as increases evaporation of nearby surface water as well as further drying out the soil. So the water hole eventually dries, along with much of the remaining vegetation.

But the those who adapted move on to another watering hole, restarting the process.

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substituted_pinions t1_j9803xg wrote

No, sometimes disproportionate environmental stresses like this make everything die off. No virtuous cycle. Endgame.

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mwb213 t1_j9855l8 wrote

I mean, you're not wrong. A meteor striking the Earth, making the conditions in an ecosystem inhospitable to life without necessarily introducing a cycle of degradation is consistent with your commebt. But that's not mutually exclusive with humans introducing a species that later becomes invasive, ultimately resulting in fundamental alterations to the ecosystem.

1

Individual_Potato_87 t1_j97cjdk wrote

People will probably be upset about this, but lets be real....

Millions of cows slaughtered everyday for hamburgers = no problem.

150 feral cows shot via airplanes = why would they do that to the cows?

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Gone213 t1_j988p3w wrote

Because the ranchers don't want the feral cows in the public lands where they steal land for their own cattle.

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DibsOnLast t1_j97e3pr wrote

One feeds people, so kinda different.

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xlink17 t1_j98l6av wrote

And yet it's still completely unnecessary and devastating to the environment and cows.

−1

Acceptable-Peace-69 t1_j97ehd7 wrote

My first thought was bbq. Seriously…delicious.

−2

KeenK0ng t1_j97pwzz wrote

You don't want old cattle, it's tough and has heavy beef flavor.

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Meldreth t1_j987cyd wrote

Oh no. Not beef flavor in our beef.

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KeenK0ng t1_j987jet wrote

Oh you haven't had it huh? The taste is more akin to Bison, it is not for everyone.

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hcschild t1_j99p31o wrote

Like Bison? It's getting better and better. :)

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celerydonut t1_j988seb wrote

Poor cows. They didn’t chose this path.

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dirtmonger t1_j9aelpp wrote

Those cows are probably living their best life! Way better than the life of a feedlot cow, or even most dairy cows. If I had to be a cow, I’d definitely hope to be a feral cow.

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celerydonut t1_j9aqwkd wrote

Right, just meant the whole ‘being shot from a helicopter’ thing is too bad.

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groveborn t1_j97l8r8 wrote

Twist: the emus trained them

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_MrBalls_ t1_j97xoxy wrote

Big Emu sends regards

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Fox_Kurama t1_j9mikxd wrote

Maybe Australia should send a bunch of Emus over. Get America back for the Cane Toads.

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nhavar t1_j98sobj wrote

My brain turns that headline into an image of cows being shot out of a very large missile launcher attached to a helicopter.

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Astroblemes t1_j99tm6e wrote

Overgrazing an issue, but why focus just on feral cows

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Johnthedoer t1_j98ha6i wrote

simple solution, tie lots of helium balloons to the feral cows and let the air force take care of the problem. /s

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dgodog t1_j9856fs wrote

This will finally shut up all those critics of the Pentagon's meat-seeking missile program.

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Isthisworking2000 t1_j98bm2w wrote

I feel bad, but overgrazing can seriously destroy ecosystems. The Sahara desert was grassland as recent as 10000 years ago and scientists believe cattle farming literally ate too much until a it caused a runaway greenhouse effect.

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sf-keto t1_j996e9q wrote

We bring climate science into disrepute by not acknowledging the parts that we don't yet firmly know. So let's not do that, please. (◕‿◕✿)

This "cows killed the Sahara" is still a theory that remains unproven; other reputable climate scientists do not yet agree. We have to be honest about that & separate settled science from the unsettled. Otherwise we only induce doubt in the settled science.

"It’s important to note that the green Sahara always would’ve turned back into a desert even without humans doing anything—that’s just how Earth’s orbit works, says geologist Jessica Tierney, an associate professor of geoscience at the University of Arizona.

Moreover, according to Tierney, we don’t necessarily need humans to explain the abruptness of the transition from green to desert.

Instead, the culprits might be regular old vegetation feedbacks and changes in the amount of dust. “At first you have this slow change in the Earth’s orbit,” Tierney explains. “As that’s happening, the West African monsoon is going to get a little bit weaker. Slowly you’ll degrade the landscape, switching from desert to vegetation. And then at some point you pass the tipping point where change accelerates.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/

We just need a lot more research on this point. And I say this as a strong climate activist, not as a denier or delayer.

Best wishes!

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Isthisworking2000 t1_j996xx3 wrote

Ty, I stand, err, not corrected. Firmly suggested?

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nwagers t1_j9a0qxp wrote

The original paper says "points to potential anthropogenic influence" in its conclusion section. It's just a hypothesis right now.

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CrashnServers t1_j98ff1c wrote

Trying to drag a cow out of the woods. Oof!

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annheim3 t1_j98pj0z wrote

The difficult terrain of the forest as well as the “wild, uncooperative nature of the animals” makes capturing the cattle alive challenging and dangerous for both the animals and humans involved, according to the memo.

It's 3 and a half million acres. No motors allowed off roads... you can hike, horseback, or helicopter in or out.

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TeamMountainLion t1_j98yi7v wrote

You’ve heard of feral hogs, but get ready for the sequel!

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AncestralSpirit t1_j99azue wrote

So basically Tauren druids from World of Warcraft

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CucumberImpossible82 t1_j9afz0j wrote

HEY! Who owns those cows in the woods over there? Nobody I guess. Call in the fucking air force.

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ottermann t1_j9aylrs wrote

Aw crud....Cliven Bundy is going to claim that they're all his and sue the gub'mint for killing his legally grazing cows.

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Monster-Mtl t1_j9bgbhi wrote

Imagine everyone went vegan how serious of a problem this would become.

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Tipsy247 t1_j985rhp wrote

I didn't know there was feral cows. That's free beef

0

TikTokTards t1_j983yz2 wrote

Can I get some of that beef?

−1

Matsumura_Fishworks t1_j99j3zz wrote

Sounds like spy cows. Should we scramble the F-22s?

−1

Nakagura775 t1_j98a4lh wrote

Weren’t there millions of buffaloes in that area in the past?

−2

Kyle197 t1_j98fig2 wrote

Bison and cows feed on different parts of ecosystems, and have different impacts. They're not analogous.

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DanMorgan405 t1_j98ebvg wrote

Buffalo are found in Africa. Are you talking about Bison?

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blackluck64 t1_j99ijau wrote

https://www.flatcreekinn.com/bison-americas-mammal/

Between 30- 60 million of them in fact for thousands of years. Strangely enough, no ecological degradation.

The US military killed almost all of them until only a few hundred remained. We (meaning the US) wanted to deprive native peoples a source of food. (By 1884 only 300 or so remained.)

Ain't America grand.

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schreist t1_j9994e9 wrote

There’s a bunch of feral humans running around in DC…

−2

Frankie6Strings t1_j97rplf wrote

Blow those cows out of the sky asap.

−7

asabovesovirtual t1_j97d2uw wrote

What's the diff in marketing them as "free" vs "feral"? Honest vs evil?

Heard of a feral cat, but not a cow.

−12

PM_ME_KITTYNIPPLES OP t1_j97e1fd wrote

"“These cattle have not been husbanded, cared for by private owners, or kept or raised on a ranch for several generations, and are thus not domesticated,” the service said in the memo."

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Caoldman t1_j97e0fj wrote

So we still haven't learned from the lesson of what we did to the bison. No we will be doing the same thing with their replacement.

Game and wildlife are supposed to manage the feral animals, not destroy them. If these cows tip the natural balance the offer hunters and/or ranchers permits to bring their numbers to manageable levels. Don't just go out there and take out a species that has become a part of the local ecosystem!! /smh

−31

PM_ME_KITTYNIPPLES OP t1_j97ebpy wrote

Bison were native, these feral cattle are not. In this situation, they're an invasive species.

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arkezxa t1_j97fqwo wrote

Native? But where did they (bison) originally come from? Even if they were here for tens of thousands of years -- at some point, they weren't, right?

The article just says they are a danger to the local population and natural resources -- is that actually true? I don't live in the area mentioned?

Wild animals in the wilderness -- what're we trying to accomplish here?

−8

Modern_Bear t1_j97qik1 wrote

>Native? But where did they (bison) originally come from? Even if they were here for tens of thousands of years -- at some point, they weren't, right?

Correct. The earth isn't native either it came from a collection of space dust drawn together by gravity. The sun isn't native, or our galaxy. I guess the universe could be considered native unless you believe in multiverse hypothesis, in which case the big bang could have come from an interaction with another universe. In other words don't kill anything and moo!

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arkezxa t1_j987l3j wrote

Is that what it seems like I'm suggesting?

By saying we shouldn't kill some cows in the wilderness, you're taking that to mean... what precisely?

We kill thousands of cows a day, these guys are a drop in the bucket, right? Specifically, why is it worth the time and resources to go out of our way, as a society, to cull these particular cows?

−1

captnconnman t1_j97k2rm wrote

They’d likely be a danger to the local population in the sense that they don’t act like the general public would expect a regular cow to act. As far as natural resources go, they are grazing animals, and could be eating/grazing plants and grasses that are necessary to the survival of native species in the area. We released wolves back into Yellowstone for the same reason: the deer population was exploding and stripping areas bare of grass and berries due to overpopulation in a delicate ecosystem.

5