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BigOlPirate t1_j97ch9r wrote

Wild cattle destroying the eco system: let’s break out the chopper and kill ‘em

Mean while the ranchers are letting their cows free graze and roam this same land. It’s bad for the ecosystem when the wild are cattle doing it, but just a woopsie and no consequence when ranches cut down fences and let their cattle graze on park land.

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Individual_Potato_87 t1_j97cjdk wrote

People will probably be upset about this, but lets be real....

Millions of cows slaughtered everyday for hamburgers = no problem.

150 feral cows shot via airplanes = why would they do that to the cows?

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asabovesovirtual t1_j97d2uw wrote

What's the diff in marketing them as "free" vs "feral"? Honest vs evil?

Heard of a feral cat, but not a cow.

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Caoldman t1_j97e0fj wrote

So we still haven't learned from the lesson of what we did to the bison. No we will be doing the same thing with their replacement.

Game and wildlife are supposed to manage the feral animals, not destroy them. If these cows tip the natural balance the offer hunters and/or ranchers permits to bring their numbers to manageable levels. Don't just go out there and take out a species that has become a part of the local ecosystem!! /smh

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arkezxa t1_j97fqwo wrote

Replying to PM_ME_KITTYNIPPLES (#1,874,669)

Native? But where did they (bison) originally come from? Even if they were here for tens of thousands of years -- at some point, they weren't, right?

The article just says they are a danger to the local population and natural resources -- is that actually true? I don't live in the area mentioned?

Wild animals in the wilderness -- what're we trying to accomplish here?

−8

Dino7813 t1_j97gkcc wrote

They should let hunters apply for a lottery cow tag, at least someone would use the meat. It’s just wasteful.

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captnconnman t1_j97k2rm wrote

Replying to arkezxa (#1,874,769)

They’d likely be a danger to the local population in the sense that they don’t act like the general public would expect a regular cow to act. As far as natural resources go, they are grazing animals, and could be eating/grazing plants and grasses that are necessary to the survival of native species in the area. We released wolves back into Yellowstone for the same reason: the deer population was exploding and stripping areas bare of grass and berries due to overpopulation in a delicate ecosystem.

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Fickle-Hovercraft667 t1_j97lbnq wrote

Replying to BigOlPirate (#1,874,520)

Dude, I could go on about this forever. I lived in the mountains of Colorado for many years and I love wilderness camping. The problem was that BLM lets cows graze on their land.

Nothing is more frustrating than showing up at your favorite wilderness spot and having to dodge the immense amount of cow shit and then having whole herds come through your campsite.

We also had a huge wild horse population nearby that BLM decided to round up a huge amount of because “there’s not enough grazing and they’ll starve!” They used helicopters and separated foals from mothers, stallions were powerless to keep their herds safe and some were circling their captured mares and foals trying to figure out how to get them out.

Two weeks later a video was posted from the same valley and there were THOUSANDS of sheep grazing. They basically used the starvation excuse to get a majority of the wild horses out of the way so ranchers could graze their sheep with minimal grazing competition.

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mwb213 t1_j97ojff wrote

People don't realize how much of a driver of desertification overgrazing is. It wasn't historically an issue when bison and other large herbivores were more prevalent, but humans wiped them out, along with their predators. With feral cows, there's nothing really forcing seasonal herd migrations, so the vegetation never has a chance to recuperate. This is particularly notable in areas with sparse water access to drink from - they will stay near the water, overgrazing the vegetation until it no longer grows back.

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Modern_Bear t1_j97qik1 wrote

Replying to arkezxa (#1,874,769)

>Native? But where did they (bison) originally come from? Even if they were here for tens of thousands of years -- at some point, they weren't, right?

Correct. The earth isn't native either it came from a collection of space dust drawn together by gravity. The sun isn't native, or our galaxy. I guess the universe could be considered native unless you believe in multiverse hypothesis, in which case the big bang could have come from an interaction with another universe. In other words don't kill anything and moo!

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m_nieto t1_j97vdpm wrote

I can’t get over the fact that there are feral cows.

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mwb213 t1_j97wefd wrote

Replying to eltigrechino94 (#1,875,592)

The weak die off, but the strong may adapt and move on, repeating the cycle in other areas.

See, the thing is, particularly in areas prone to high summer heat and direct exposure to the sun, when the cows overgraze, this not only kills off the plants, but when the plants die back, there is nothing to shade the soil. The soil then bakes in the sun, often times reaching temps above surface air temperatures. The high heat bakes other plant roots as well as increases evaporation of nearby surface water as well as further drying out the soil. So the water hole eventually dries, along with much of the remaining vegetation.

But the those who adapted move on to another watering hole, restarting the process.

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_MrBalls_ t1_j97wv7k wrote

Unbranded cattle in the west?! Sounds like a cowboy's gold mine.

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Draano t1_j97y9aw wrote

Replying to dirk_on_reddit (#1,875,302)

Lol. There's an airport by me with the three-letter code of BLM. Since I'm in a red county in a blue state, I thought I could stir up the local Rs by saying our D governor renamed it for the BLM vote.

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junkyard_robot t1_j9848t5 wrote

Replying to mwb213 (#1,875,426)

Let's not pretend that overgrazing is the issue. The issue is that these cows don't belong to the ranchers that graze their cattle on BLM land.

BLM has a long history of claiming over grazing and killing off animals, only for ranchers to release thousands of animals to graze without competition.

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mwb213 t1_j9855l8 wrote

Replying to substituted_pinions (#1,876,261)

I mean, you're not wrong. A meteor striking the Earth, making the conditions in an ecosystem inhospitable to life without necessarily introducing a cycle of degradation is consistent with your commebt. But that's not mutually exclusive with humans introducing a species that later becomes invasive, ultimately resulting in fundamental alterations to the ecosystem.

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dgodog t1_j9856fs wrote

This will finally shut up all those critics of the Pentagon's meat-seeking missile program.

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Tipsy247 t1_j985rhp wrote

I didn't know there was feral cows. That's free beef

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Slapbox t1_j985zdg wrote

Replying to Draano (#1,876,109)

> Since I'm in a red county in a blue state, I thought I could stir up the local Rs by saying our D governor renamed it for the BLM vote.

Please don't - you know they'll believe it and they're deep enough into their victimhood complex that it can only become worse.

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arkezxa t1_j987l3j wrote

Replying to Modern_Bear (#1,875,560)

Is that what it seems like I'm suggesting?

By saying we shouldn't kill some cows in the wilderness, you're taking that to mean... what precisely?

We kill thousands of cows a day, these guys are a drop in the bucket, right? Specifically, why is it worth the time and resources to go out of our way, as a society, to cull these particular cows?

−1

celerydonut t1_j988seb wrote

Poor cows. They didn’t chose this path.

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Nakagura775 t1_j98a4lh wrote

Weren’t there millions of buffaloes in that area in the past?

−2

Isthisworking2000 t1_j98bm2w wrote

I feel bad, but overgrazing can seriously destroy ecosystems. The Sahara desert was grassland as recent as 10000 years ago and scientists believe cattle farming literally ate too much until a it caused a runaway greenhouse effect.

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teahabit t1_j98d5j3 wrote

Replying to Dino7813 (#1,874,834)

The problem is that the terrain is very tough going. If the park service of the area (BLM, Forest Service, National Park) could get the cattle out by a round up they would.

In my area of NM, we get cattle rangers to round up the feral cattle every 7 or so years. They auction off the cattle without brands. Feral cattle are quick, surprisingly quiet, and crafty dudes.

Last year we had an out of town runner get run over by one of our feral bulls. He didn't realize that you have to give them a wide berth. Even the cougars don't go after a full sized cattle. Deer are much easier prey...

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Johnthedoer t1_j98ha6i wrote

simple solution, tie lots of helium balloons to the feral cows and let the air force take care of the problem. /s

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annheim3 t1_j98pj0z wrote

The difficult terrain of the forest as well as the “wild, uncooperative nature of the animals” makes capturing the cattle alive challenging and dangerous for both the animals and humans involved, according to the memo.

It's 3 and a half million acres. No motors allowed off roads... you can hike, horseback, or helicopter in or out.

1

Tiktocktheclock t1_j98rarg wrote

Replying to _MrBalls_ (#1,875,996)

Theyre usually branded from my experience. I remember driving my jeep on the mesa west of Albuquerque near that rez, and probably on the rez. Fences were none existant but lone, low grouped cows were every few miles.

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DanMorgan405 t1_j98siiv wrote

Replying to sortedWanker (#1,878,136)

Having dressed and hunted (not hunting the cow) all three, there is no comparison.

They are not similar, which is why experienced hunters take their cows to a butcher instead of doing it themselves.

−12

nhavar t1_j98sobj wrote

My brain turns that headline into an image of cows being shot out of a very large missile launcher attached to a helicopter.

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sortedWanker t1_j98ul7l wrote

Replying to DanMorgan405 (#1,878,954)

You just end up with a lot more ground meat with cow most times due to size. The larger the size of animal the longer it takes to break down. You are the first experienced cow hunter I have met and heard of.

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TeamMountainLion t1_j98yi7v wrote

You’ve heard of feral hogs, but get ready for the sequel!

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sf-keto t1_j996e9q wrote

Replying to Isthisworking2000 (#1,877,240)

We bring climate science into disrepute by not acknowledging the parts that we don't yet firmly know. So let's not do that, please. (◕‿◕✿)

This "cows killed the Sahara" is still a theory that remains unproven; other reputable climate scientists do not yet agree. We have to be honest about that & separate settled science from the unsettled. Otherwise we only induce doubt in the settled science.

"It’s important to note that the green Sahara always would’ve turned back into a desert even without humans doing anything—that’s just how Earth’s orbit works, says geologist Jessica Tierney, an associate professor of geoscience at the University of Arizona.

Moreover, according to Tierney, we don’t necessarily need humans to explain the abruptness of the transition from green to desert.

Instead, the culprits might be regular old vegetation feedbacks and changes in the amount of dust. “At first you have this slow change in the Earth’s orbit,” Tierney explains. “As that’s happening, the West African monsoon is going to get a little bit weaker. Slowly you’ll degrade the landscape, switching from desert to vegetation. And then at some point you pass the tipping point where change accelerates.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/

We just need a lot more research on this point. And I say this as a strong climate activist, not as a denier or delayer.

Best wishes!

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schreist t1_j9994e9 wrote

There’s a bunch of feral humans running around in DC…

−2

Payorfixyourself t1_j99km5q wrote

Replying to TBRoma (#1,880,220)

Because they’re not native and reek havoc on the ecosystem. The only feral cows they going to allow are buffalo. Then there is the part that since they are wild range they’re eating the grass that could Be going to a cow going to actual market for food.

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Astroblemes t1_j99tm6e wrote

Overgrazing an issue, but why focus just on feral cows

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CucumberImpossible82 t1_j9afz0j wrote

HEY! Who owns those cows in the woods over there? Nobody I guess. Call in the fucking air force.

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teahabit t1_j9ahq8j wrote

Replying to CapableConnection141 (#1,883,727)

Since the cattle are not killed, there’s no donations to food banks. Nor can food banks here deal with an influx of 50 cattle. There’s no refrigerators for the meat, nor funds to butcher the cattle. Cattle are auctioned (cheaply, since it’s old), and local folks get to distribute stew meat to their friends and families.

The funds from the auction help pay for the cattle rustlers.

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GDogg007 t1_j9amkxm wrote

Replying to alias_487 (#1,879,601)

Old cows make great ground beef. They also make amazing roasts. The ribs aren't too bad if cooked right. I have ate many an "old" cow and even Holsteins. People eat old cows.

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HappyFunNorm t1_j9awoit wrote

Replying to BigOlPirate (#1,874,520)

Grazing herds have been part of the ecosystem in the west for thousands of years. They've only been gone for like 100, 150 years. Thos ecosystems SHOULD have large grazing animals in them. And wolves.

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ottermann t1_j9aylrs wrote

Aw crud....Cliven Bundy is going to claim that they're all his and sue the gub'mint for killing his legally grazing cows.

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Monster-Mtl t1_j9bgbhi wrote

Imagine everyone went vegan how serious of a problem this would become.

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techleopard t1_j9c68dz wrote

Replying to SteelCityIrish (#1,876,218)

I said it back then and I still say it: the government encourages their BS by being too chickenshit to just kill all the unpermitted cattle from helicopter and then cut off the area and just wait. Arrest them as they come out. Seize every child present and place in foster care, because their parents only brought them to use them as meat shields.

Never understood why Oregon let people go get the second group go get supplies, it made the standoff last so much longer.

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tractiontiresadvised t1_j9e3hd9 wrote

Replying to WhizEagle (#1,896,669)

"Livestock and Mining" is pretty much what it was designed to be, not sarcastically. It was created by the merger of the US Grazing Service and the General Land Office, the latter of which managed mineral rights (among other things).

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