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GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B t1_j9edr5z wrote

Many companies could benefit from this rather than having employees sit there and waste time. Measure concrete work done, not time spent at the office, and you'll be surprised.

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UniversalMomentum t1_j9eszix wrote

You have to keep in mind that lots of companies already do that and they mostly use it as a way to pay you less for their own billable hours instead of like as general overhead for the business like workers are usually paid as on payroll.

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[deleted] t1_j9eyqhm wrote

[deleted]

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TerraTF t1_j9fkv2r wrote

Retail. If you're a good worker with open availability you'll often work 32-37 hours a week 4-5 days a week as a part timer.

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Xanthelei t1_j9frelg wrote

Retail is structurally incapable of becoming piecemeal pay, which is what was originally described. Far too much of it is impossible to track or standardize time frames for, such as aiding customers in finding things or cashiering.

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axonxorz t1_j9gfvy6 wrote

> Far too much of it is impossible to track or standardize time frames for, such as aiding customers in finding things or cashiering.

For the very little guy sure, but bet your ass that Walmart and others absolutely do this. How many retailers are left that are not under an umbrella of a megacorp?

Case in point: Target. They have(had?) specific second-scale timing for cashiers. 8 seconds to scan an item, with additonal time "granted" for larger items. Then more time-accounting for the customer payment phase (Hope granny had her change ready, or you're getting a flag). And in response, you have forum post after forum post of employees trying to figure out the best way to game the system so they don't get flagged for a slow customer ('cause it's the cashier's fault) like starting card payment and cancelling before choosing another, or voiding an item to scan it again to buy another 8-second window.

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Xanthelei t1_j9ghh65 wrote

I can't speak to Target, but the only thing that was tracked when I was a cashier at Walmart was how many credit cards I got people to sign up for each day. As a floor associate, I wasn't tracked on tasks in a way that could be paid piecemeal, because all the tasks on even our daily to-do list were so wildly different in scope. Finishing putting out new stock is a very different thing from logging the Apple inventory serial numbers and both are very different from resetting the movies and games sections every week for new releases.

What you describe for Target explains why I stopped shopping there even before the prices got too high. Getting rushed through check out is a shit level customer experience, the tracking program was absolutely some number focused idiot's idea. Anyone who worked in and cared about customer service would have seen the downfall of it immediately.

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axonxorz t1_j9gl4zl wrote

> Anyone who worked in and cared about customer service would have seen the downfall of it immediately.

Therein lies the problem. In my experience, purveyors of these metrics programs are massively removed from the actual work and have such a weird abstract notion of it that they can't put themselves in both their employee's and customer's shoes to see that everyone hates this but you.

You talk about different tasks having wildly different scope. At the C-Suite level, every task your org performs is a cog or a widget or an itemized process, and the inability to discard that mindset leads to this BS.

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Xanthelei t1_j9gllfc wrote

It's one of those things where if I was allowed to pass one law that had to be followed for the rest of eternity, it would be that anyone who is going to be making a decision that impacts a job HAS to have worked that job for at least one month solid, at standard wage, in the 6 months prior to the point they're making that decision. Or maybe I'd just force it to where if employees doing the job affected get a 60-70% majority that say it's stupid and shouldn't be implemented its vetoed forever. The first one makes me smile at the thought of a CEO having to cycle through peon level jobs for a full month, but the second one is way simpler.

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eightNote t1_j9hw8s7 wrote

That's kinda crazy when I think about how not busy the target is near me.

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pie4155 t1_j9fty4l wrote

Retail is scheduled as such since at 36.5 hrs/week you are entitled to benefits. Therefore no one gets more than 36 hours a week 🙃

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SniperPilot t1_j9fuirb wrote

> Measure concrete work done, not time spent at the office, and you’ll be surprised.

Half my team would be gone lmao.

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GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B t1_j9g51bw wrote

I worked in software consulting for a decade and billed up to 40k a month at the end. I financed a bunch of people for years. I made an excellent wage myself, but it was insane how much more the people who actually did the work could have had if it weren't for the 40% systematically slacking off.

I eventually quit and joined my largest customer at a rate almost as if I was a freelancer. Because that company could see who did the work.

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Sinhika t1_j9ljlns wrote

That 40% "slacking off" is people working to capacity, and then refusing to work beyond it. Rather like mules, who will just stop working rather than let themselves be worked to death. Human brains do not work at full speed for 8+ hours at a time; 4-6 hours of intense concentration is about it, and that's for hyperfocused ADHD nerds like myself. Brains need downtime just like bodies; serious mental work is tiring.

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Wolfram_And_Hart t1_j9f0wb7 wrote

Honest, if child care was more affording in the USA, most of us would be happy with 4x10h

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beerandblitz t1_j9f31cs wrote

These firms weren't doing 4 10s. They were working regular hours 4 days a week. Getting paid the same money for 80% of the hours.

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Wolfram_And_Hart t1_j9f5i3w wrote

Yeah… I read…

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beerandblitz t1_j9f60uf wrote

Ok my bad. I assumed this was reddit so the article wasn't read, just the headline.

But a lot of people do generally think when they say 4 day workweek that they mean 4x10s. Always want to make sure it's clear what this study is really trying for.

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lidsville76 t1_j9fe4f5 wrote

My brother is working on union contracts for his department. There is no real money for CoL raises, so he is suggesting that they move to a 4/32 work week. That effectively gives them a nice raise for the per hour workers.

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beerandblitz t1_j9femby wrote

Yeah it feels like there haven't been enough raises for CoL anywhere yet. Guess I just have to leave to get the raise I need.

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che85mor t1_j9fotin wrote

CoL raise? What is that?

My wife was just offered a job doing phone support. They told her training pay was $12.75. That hit like a brick to the face. When I started doing IT, it was phone support. Training pay was $12.50 an hour. 25 years ago.

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beerandblitz t1_j9g99cx wrote

That's just insanity. People at the top keep giving themselves bigger and bigger salaries though.

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che85mor t1_j9h2eto wrote

Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. cApiTAliSm though right?

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mentalxkp t1_j9fj89z wrote

4x10 sucks if you have kids, and not just the daycare part. You don't really get to see them during the week. You're 5th day, they're in school. It's great for childless people. Really expands how much you can travel. But mandatory 10 hour days really wear you down.

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8-Brit t1_j9fma4e wrote

Fortunately in this trial it was 4x8 still with no pay reduction

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ScientificSkepticism t1_j9fotwi wrote

While the study was 4x8, let me just add how awesome 4x10 is with work from home.

Roll out of bed at 6:30, take a shower, put on a t-shirt and jeans, at work by 7. Maybe put on a button down if I have a client call. Start dinner at 4:00. Get it in oven, go work some. Dinner done at 5. Answer emails while hanging out with family/friends.

Goddamn I'd rather do 10 hours of work that way than 8 hours of work where I dressed up and spent 45 minutes commuting each way.

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424f42_424f42 t1_j9hyl1j wrote

No day care in my area supports a parent working a 10 hour day

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Xanthelei t1_j9frl5r wrote

I work 4x10. It's not as great as it seems from the outside. My first day off is completely lost to just recovering and catching up on the things around the house I used to do during the week after work.

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Wolfram_And_Hart t1_j9fvjdk wrote

Guess it really depends on what you do.

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Xanthelei t1_j9g6l3x wrote

I have a very physical job, yes, but I know from my college days that 10 hours of mental work is just as draining in a different way.

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Wolfram_And_Hart t1_j9gg94k wrote

In an office though 20% of your day is fuck off politics and coffee talk. I hate it but how else is the CEO going to hijack my day while I was taking a piss with his personal laptop problem?

So, for me, 4x10 gives me an incredibly productive day.

I’d much rather do 4x8 and never have to go into an office.

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Xanthelei t1_j9ggqgn wrote

Lmao the politics and small talk is the one thing I don't miss about office jobs. I'm terrible at small talk and not interested in office politics. Those were probably the two things most draining for me for the time I worked in one.

4x8 work from home is absolutely the dream though. I'd save so much money on gas with no commute, and always have snacks on hand!

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SJHillman t1_j9f38sq wrote

It's not just affordability, but also finding a daycare whose hours fit. I'd do 4x10s, but most of the day ares in the area are open for only 10 or 11 hours a day (especially since COVID), so once you add in overhead like a commute and getting your hours to align with theirs, their working hours simply don't work. Instead, I'm on a 9/80 with every other Friday off, which is the next best thing and is still a thousand times better than a traditional 5x8 schedule.

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Draxx01 t1_j9g9zgv wrote

TBH this heavily depends on both parent's schedules. We have 4x10s and a lot of ppl just swap the dropoff or pickup. There's a lot of 5-6am ppl who leave early enough for the afternoon pickup while dodging rush hour. There's also the 8-10am start crew who do the drop off and leave during or after rush hour. We're pretty flex though so some ppl also just work partially form home then drive in later. IE take some morning meetings, drive in after rush hour. Maybe even dial in while driving. A lot of ppl been doing that as it lets them convert commute to work hours and makes for way better work/life balance.

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kingbankai t1_j9inpbf wrote

This can be a good thing for redundant service jobs but in a reactive coverage position (like IT support and ERS) you can really fuck yourself over with that approach.

Also as someone with kids I don’t want to do 4 10 hour days to be fully burnt on the 5th…

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AtomicTardigrade t1_j9ipwl0 wrote

The issue is, there are jobs where you need to be there whether there are customers or not and I very much doubt, no scratch that, know for a fact that companies won't hire more people to fit everyone into 4 day work weeks. But I can see how someone pushing papers around can do expected work in 4 days and then be gone for 3 days...

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