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VegasKL t1_ja6a2w5 wrote

Nice that most headlines don't run with who operated the train and instead continue to refer to it as Ohio train derailment.

It wasn't Ohio's train. It was Norfolk Southern's train.

>Shipments of contaminated waste to resume from Ohio Norfolk Southern's train derailment site


Randomcheeseslices t1_ja76oma wrote

But then we'd have to ask WHICH Norfolk Southern derailment site. They've had a few in the last year (This isn't the only toxic one either. Just the worst so far)


TogepiMain t1_ja8jgq2 wrote

So it's the "Site of the Norfolk Southern East Palestine Derailment"


xeico t1_ja70vnz wrote

interesting fact. tour guides at austwitz make the same point. it was nazi camp in poland not polish camp in poland


Jampine t1_ja77bqg wrote

Wasn't it an army emplacement the Nazis repurposed?


Aduialion t1_ja7br0i wrote

The repurposing is the important point for why it's called a Nazi camp in Poland.


Lennette20th t1_ja7i89p wrote

It would be weird to say that the country that was invaded first also was on their invaders side. Like, yeah, World War Two was about the Jews and racial supremacy, but not everything the Nazis touched suddenly became racist.


Wyrd_whistler t1_ja7tqu1 wrote

Inherently racist and evil organization exists because of of racism and does racist genocide everywhere it went....yea I don't care if it was an adoption program for puppies - fruit of the poison tree , it was always about racism and the pure ethno-state. GTFO with that "not everything the Nazis touched was racist". Nazi = Racism/hate/murder of the outgroup


[deleted] t1_ja77pen wrote



Omega_spartan t1_ja79o0q wrote

Don’t forget that trump rolled back safety regulations for hazardous material transportation on cargo trains.


Free_Dimension1459 t1_ja7jkxl wrote

Don’t forget most congresspeople are little shits who value power first, ideals second.

I think this argument can be settled via quantification of the effects of both things and what they prevented. I’ll zoom into Norfolk Southern specifically.

#Effect of 2018 deregulation. Part of the context is that this deregulation was done to “save American jobs” as part of a deregulatory package that saved businesses $160 billion during his presidency. The jury is still out on layoffs, but thanks to the rail workers’ unions we do know numbers in that industry already. It’s somewhat clear though, this saved money but not jobs. It didn’t even lower prices for buyers. Richer rich, poorer poor. In my opinion this is both causal and revealing to a solution. -industry broadly adopted in 2019 Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR). This in turn caused the effects below

  • While having record profits, NS laid off 3,500 rail workers in 2019 and failed to upgrade its systems (20,000 rail workers laid off nationwide).
  • They went to 60 seconds per cart inspections on much longer train length (now up to 3 miles), making inspections more of a sham
  • brake systems were not required to be upgraded and worked sequentially on much longer trains
  • tracks were not evaluated for their ability to handle such train lengths
  • when Biden attempted to re-apply some regulations during his first year, rail had to keep operating but claimed they couldn’t hire qualified people (and are not broadly required, by government, to take on paid apprentices that they train on the job - some unions do require this, but it doesn’t help you hire 20,000 people)

#Effect of union busting Part of the context is how fed up the nation has been with covid supply chain issues. This is not an effect. From computer parts to toilet paper, it’s been 2 years of nonstop disruption to the transportation of goods. Whether or not congresspeople are industry shills, I know this fact brought chills down the spines of politicians, especially right before the Christmas holidays, when online shopping has grown exponentially. This, in my opinion, is both causal and revealing to a solution.

  • Safety standards were not increased for train systems, PSR was not limited nor banned, the ability to stop the presses on a negative inspection finding remains limited, because scheduling tolerances are so tight and profits > safety
  • reasonable standards of health and safety were not set for personnel nor train inspections. A healthy person can’t consistently do a demanding job (inspect an entire train cart’s systems in 60 seconds) - now throw in a fever or congestion and it’s absolutely ridiculous
  • disillusioned union workers. Biden’s a union guy he says. Even the union guy betrays the union.

#Effects of other government decisions or inaction We look to blame one side. One party. Blame is on

  • Vinyl Chloride should’ve been a properly classified hazmat decades ago. The fact it wasn’t in a car that more appropriately designed to handle flammable, toxic materials is the result of decades of EPA inaction and lobbying from two industries (not just rail!). We regulate after the bad thing happens even if academics have been sounding the alarm for decades. This is the case with vinyl chloride - every government since and including Reagan is complicit. Why aren’t the media asking or exposing “which other materials are being overlooked by the EPA?”
  • civil war era tech on trains are not a new thing. Lengthening trains past civil era capabilities and carrying materials that were dreamt of yet without requiring these systems be upgraded is the new thing. We’ve been transporting materials that were not conceived of in that era - from fossil fuels at scale to modern manufacturing chemicals, but somehow for, what, the entire post WWII era, nobody did anything about it. Relying on that era’s tech is foolhardy. This shows either or both the dangers of lobbying and the limits of governmental knowledge.
  • we allow self-policing of for profit companies. This was a disaster for Boeing and their customers not long ago, and for the financial industry broadly in 2007/8. Still, industry pushes for it and government keeps allowing it. Industry has a conflict of interest - even the Romans asked “qui custodiet ipsos custodes” (who watches the watchmen), so you can’t pretend it’s a new concept that this model will always fail.

#Possible solutions

  • regulate for safety and dismantle self inspection mechanisms.
  • Regulatory changes through executive action that can’t be reversed due to hiring constraints must require the hiring of paid apprentices. Industry can’t get a free pass on “oops, I went strong on the layoffs”
  • “this deregulation will create jobs” and leads to layoffs should get someone in trouble. Financial penalty, fraud charges, something. How is lying to the public broadly not a crime
  • unions need a voice in Congress as powerful as lobbies. They represent the interest of all Americans who are not rich. The people who live in towns like East Palestine and thousands of communities like it, the working class. The money of lobbies means this isn’t so today, but unions have the know-how.
  • it’s about darned time we regulate life and safety jobs broadly. Everyone deemed essential workers during the pandemic (yes, including all grocery staff, EMTs, and many more) deserve paid time off, health benefits, and pay that goes with how they keep the rest of us a life, come rain or come shine

Stop the “it’s Biden’s fault” and “it’s Trump’s fault” - I think I showed it’s both their fault, and Reagan’s, even Jimmy Carter and Nixon’s fault. My life and yours are not a sport for partisan politics and rabid fanaticism. We’re never going to fix this shit if we think all our problems started in the past 5 years.

  • we need an educated, engaged population that votes the shills out. Corporations should be able to make A profit, but people need to be able to make a living and breathe clean air in their homes too.
  • Unions have the know how of what’s actually good and safe at the ground level. Lobbies only know what’s good for the rich. Lobbies are the death of the working class, for profit.

[deleted] t1_ja7w6yy wrote



Free_Dimension1459 t1_ja8ph0l wrote

Politics and the exploitation of tribalism.

Dems say it’s the trump deregulation. GOPers say Biden signed off on the unions being forced to take the agreement. Both are true, both are a partial picture of a longer trend. Both parties knows their base will accept the talking points without looking into it or thinking deeply.

Tribalism is how the GOP campaigned on “look at the money coming to our district from the infrastructure bill” that not a single GOP legislator voted for. It’s how the GOP raised taxes on everyone but lowered them for the rich, but still have working class support. Because these tax increases only start hitting in 2023 (just in time for the 2024 presidential campaign), next year you’ll have republicans blaming Biden for the middle class tax hike.

Democrats like myself are not immune to this tribalism either, but it is different. While Trump could do no wrong with a certain crowd (until he tried to suggest people get vaccinated), I find most of democrats call BS on Biden all the time. But, almost no democrat can answer “name one thing Trump did that was good.” One good thing is he signed the First Step Act in 2018, which enacted some long overdue criminal justice reforms into law - wasn’t controversial, wasn’t shiny, doesn’t get the full job done, but he gets to take credit for it.

Anyhow. The point is, even if it’s a bipartisan problem all the discourse ignores the facts. People trust those “in” their tribe and mistrust the outsiders. Heck, we have a congressperson who remains uncensured for calling to dissolve the union a little over a week ago - that’s unheard of since the 1800s. The tribalism is too strong to even talk about that coherently across party lines.


[deleted] t1_ja7akbd wrote



MBThree t1_ja7cz87 wrote

But it’s not illegal for you and I to strike? Assuming you aren’t a rail worker.


DannyBoy911 t1_ja7h9ha wrote

It only becomes illegal to strike once you threaten go on strike


MBThree t1_ja8612w wrote

There are plenty of industry strikes around the county going on all the time. The vast majority are not made illegal.


[deleted] t1_ja7d307 wrote



Omega_spartan t1_ja7efhx wrote

I’m in Canada and not the US.

Here it is illegal for nurses to strike.


MBThree t1_ja85wgq wrote

I’m in California, and a ton of our nurses threatened/planned on striking late last year. The threat of strike was enough to get them a new pay deal, and they didn’t have to actually end up striking:


Omega_spartan t1_ja86oyn wrote

If we had that option here it would create a better quality of life in the healthcare sector. Instead the Ontario provincial government implemented a bill that capped wage raises to <1% in a time of a global pandemic. This caused a lot of nurses to quit and strained the healthcare even more.


AzraelTB t1_ja7hgq1 wrote

Quitting en masse still legal?


Omega_spartan t1_ja7lbhm wrote

Not illegal, however most nurses to some degree identify as altruistic and wouldn’t risk the health/safety of others.


HappilyhiketheHump t1_ja951v1 wrote

Except that the head of the the NTSB is on record saying deregulation did not have an effect on this accident based on the train by type.

NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy said…

“The ECP braking rule would've applied ONLY to HIGH HAZARD FLAMMABLE TRAINS. The train that derailed in East Palestine was a MIXED FREIGHT TRAIN containing only 3 placarded Class 3 flammable liquids cars," she tweeted. "This means even if the rule had gone into effect, this train wouldn't have had ECP brakes."

So, please check your politics and show some empathy for those Americans who are suffering.


50k-runner t1_ja9iux1 wrote

I wonder if the authors know, or care:

"By Nouran Salahieh and Artemis Moshtaghian, CNN"


Total_Customer_6627 t1_ja5rn5l wrote

The fucked up part about all of this is that there will likely be no tangible and material policy change as a result of this accident.

The government won't fix this going forward, and this shit will continue to happen.


MultiGeometry t1_ja6aq8k wrote

Whenever you hear someone try to make an excuse for the train industry, just remember how many flights there are in this country on a daily basis, and the rarity of airplane crashes that occur. Safety is not impossible. We can hold the rail industry to higher standards. I hope we do.


ravensteel539 t1_ja73tow wrote

What’s so sad is that compared to a lot of other commercial transportation (air, trucking, shipping boats, etc.), rail transport CAN be one of the safest and most environmentally conscious mediums. That’s unfortunately contingent on holding the rail industry to a high standard of safety and properly maintaining the associated infrastructure — both of which have been ignored and excused in an effort to cut costs. Even the standards of workplace safety are drastically under par from an OSHAA standpoint, as we’ve been hearing about this year.


unique_passive t1_ja71jmo wrote

Strict federal guidelines on rail keep entire countries and economies functioning. The EU would be a mess without good rail. Rail was one of, if not the primary reason that Australia even decided to form a federation in the first place.

The US having a failing railway system is a sign that its infrastructure is that of a second-world nation.


MmmmMorphine t1_ja7bgmc wrote

That's not fair, our bridges totally collapse more often than that


dofffman t1_ja7ml4x wrote

this is true and one of the reasons the soviets have had trouble both now and historically.


Kahzootoh t1_ja6lh6y wrote

The federal government is likely to be in gridlock for something like 99% of legislation for the next two years, and executive orders have limits. People voted for gridlock when they voted for Republicans, I’ve yet to see any Republican who actually campaigns on a platform of being able to find compromises with Democrats (whereas Biden himself actively campaigned on being eager to work with Republicans in earnest).

I really admire the branding campaign that the Republicans have, they’re like the Harley Davidson of political parties. They’re inferior to the Democrats in performance whether you’re liberal or conservative, but they’ve got a whole bunch of older conservatives voting for them despite the obviousness of them get ripped off.


[deleted] t1_ja77u65 wrote



Indercarnive t1_ja7unam wrote

You need 60 to break a filibuster. Dems have 51, and that's assuming you get them all to agree on something.


[deleted] t1_ja7vebi wrote



Indercarnive t1_ja7w8mm wrote

Dems wanted to allow sick days in the bill, Republicans refused. Dems wanted to avoid a strike during the holidays more than put their neck out for the workers so they capitulated.

Literally 53 votes to allow sick days but failed in senate due to filibuster by Republicans

Dems may not be perfect, but Republicans are the problem. This isn't both sides.


[deleted] t1_ja7wdhz wrote



Indercarnive t1_ja7x6da wrote

>Dems wanted to avoid a strike during the holidays more than put their neck out for the workers so they capitulated.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit huh?

Dems could've rejected the bill sure. But then you have a rail strike during the holidays during unprecedented inflation. It was a lose-lose situation brought about only because Republicans refused to allow sick days.


[deleted] t1_ja7xnpo wrote



Indercarnive t1_ja7y37c wrote

The people of Ohio voted for Republicans. East Palestine in particular voted hard red. And Trump helped remove safety regulations. And republicans filibustered the sick days.

>They should have voted no and put pressure on republicans.

how does a crashing economy while Dems control the house and Presidency put pressure on Republicans?


midsprat123 t1_ja7bge9 wrote

Y’all wanna know something really fucked up?

The company handling this in Houston? Right next door to another company that had a multi week long raging fire a couple years ago.


RSchenck t1_ja8nml7 wrote

Yes this won't be fixed and will keep happening largely because of one political party, a party that Ohio keeps electing into State and Federal office.


mrm00r3 t1_ja5wbz0 wrote

100% this shit happens again within 100 miles of this city inside the next year.


kslusherplantman t1_ja5zfmc wrote

So we are starting our 2024 bingo cards already?

I’ll choose alien invasion for a square


lemonrence t1_ja6id9c wrote

My bet is always, hopefully, on alien invasion


decro1ssance t1_ja7aaph wrote

Same, and that they’re not susceptible to bullets, because if they are, we already know how that will go.


Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_ja6qwc7 wrote

The entire rail industry is run this way, it’s not a state specific thing. Do people think the Ohio government runs the trains or something? The feds regulate rail, the standards that were in place here are the same standards in place for the lines in your city.


Hooterdear t1_ja60s14 wrote

"Some of the liquid wastes will be sent to a facility in Vickery, Ohio, where it will be disposed of in an underground injection well,” Shore said. “Norfolk Southern will also beghin shipping solid waste to the Heritage Incinerator in East Liverpool, Ohio.”



yblame t1_ja64jy3 wrote

Out of sight, out of mind. Company that fucked up dusts off hands and walks away as per usual


ecalz622 t1_ja6a3el wrote

Spread the pollution 🤷‍♂️


DukeLukeivi t1_ja6h661 wrote

Yeah I they should just excise the entire county from the crust of the Earth, tractor beam it into space, and just throw it into the sun - it's so easy!


ecalz622 t1_ja6hfgh wrote

They already fucked that place up, keep it there and declare it a super fund!


DukeLukeivi t1_ja6idvh wrote

This is actually orders of magnitude too small to be a superfund - if the factory making these chemicals blew up, that's a superfund. Cleaning up a chemical spill by moving contaminated materials to the nearest qualifying incinerator is really the way it's done. A lazy uncontrolled burn poisoning the region was a disgusting action tho .

I'd personally like to see some details on this dump well - I'm a bit dubious about that prospect, but reading is a better option than raving.


nitro316 t1_ja79ka3 wrote

I'm curious about the well too. With all the shady shit that's been happening to obfuscate the actual pollution, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a hole in the ground with no protection whatever for more contamination.


DukeLukeivi t1_ja7d81l wrote

Reading is a better option than raving.

Ffs the level of afactual hysterical shit talking in this thread is Norfolk Southern levels of toxic. Seriously people throwing fits that contamination is being taken to a nearby incinerator? How tf is this """supposed to be''" cleaned up, yea experts on pollution remediation for the week? Just get the USS Enterprise to tractor beam the whole county up into space and throw it in the sun?


nitro316 t1_ja7fwsa wrote

There's an article now claiming that the site in Texas, which is supposedly the site for the contaminated water, has no knowledge of any of what this article is claiming. So feel free to tell the rest of what is actually happening.


DukeLukeivi t1_ja7golj wrote

This article is newer than that one, they've apparently consolidated processing locations to be more local - a good idea to limit liability/spread.

Nobody bitching here actually has any solutions or answers, just malding that nothing being planned or done is "good enough."


Indercarnive t1_ja7gtnv wrote

I mean, is there an alternative? Waste going to waste removal/processing sites isn't exactly unsurprising.


Hooterdear t1_ja7ttpo wrote

You're right. I'm just thinking that it's a little disturbing how we live, treat the planet, dispose of our waste. Surely we can think of something a little more sustainable and healthy.


Minionz t1_ja6386a wrote

EPA seems to have changed where they are sending the waste. The water was being shipped all the way down to Houston, now it seems to being sent to somewhere in Ohio.


reddig33 t1_ja6jyp4 wrote

Probably too much risk of it derailing on its way to Texas and creating yet another superfund site.


Aduialion t1_ja7c038 wrote

The solution to pollution is dilution. Eventually all the spills could have been cleaned up and respilled all over the place until everyone is a little poisoned. Then it's normal again.


DeathClaws t1_jab83a6 wrote

No sense wasting a wasteland in the making is it?


megafatbossbaby t1_ja5zxsb wrote

Oh good. Glad it is back to normal now. Proceed with the aluminum nitrate shipments on this surprisingly sketchy rail line.


Jimmy-Pesto-Jr t1_ja6asly wrote

idk if you meant to type ammonium nitrate instead (not a chemist; don't know industrial applications of AL nitrate)

but at least ammonium nitrate mostly "disappears" into the atmosphere as it detonates, and doesn't really leave contaminants in the area

since it likely won't continue killing people & wildlife in the vicinity for many decades to come, its probably the better alternative between the two


BoomZhakaLaka t1_ja6ne6m wrote

Edit: was thinking ammonium hydroxide, a compound used in laboratories. Especially for water chemistry in industrial applications


TJR843 t1_ja70pav wrote

Capitalism dictates this must continue. If two more trains full of toxic materials derail in East Palestine within the next year, and it's just as bad, guess what happens? More trains carrying toxic materials will ride the same line within a few weeks after those. The profits must continue, people be damned.

They will put out minimal aid with the only goal of that aid being staving off an increase in collective class consciousness. The population of East Palestine is small, but there are more than enough to stop any trains moving through the town if they wanted. That is what they don't want them or us to realize.


[deleted] t1_ja77vr4 wrote



TJR843 t1_ja8ko81 wrote

Blaming a result of the root problem and not the root problem itself is what keeps us in an infinite loop where this continues to happen and nothing changes. Congress is corrupt why? Congress backed the rail corpos why? Congress engaged in strike breaking (again) why?


[deleted] t1_ja8w8ie wrote



TJR843 t1_ja93ze0 wrote

>But the "why" is acting legally. How do we stop it? Step 1 is making it illegal to do so and put in preventive measures that allow enforcement.

You're asking to make something illegal that is inherent to the system of profit itself. We have plenty of antitrust and labor laws that are openly unenforced if not ignored, among plenty of other laws that are ignored if they don't favor capital. What you want is simply not possible. The game is over, we lost. You will not get electoral democracy under a capitalist system to uncorrupt itself. Your leaders are defacto heads of corporations. That is the reality that needs to be understood by the working class of this country if we want anything to change. Liberal and Conservative politicians are both capitalists first and foremost, they will not side with you over who perpetuates their wealth status.


[deleted] t1_ja94m1q wrote



TJR843 t1_ja971qe wrote

And how often do the French do what they do? Quite often. It is a constant battle under this system to collectively fight a system that by nature has an easier time fighting us. It was setup to that way for a reason. While we try to get out fellow working class people on our side and in the streets, they only need to rally a few elites to their cause, call in favors, bribe politicians and cops, pay some mercs and run constant propaganda on everyone's TV. You're on the right track though.


[deleted] t1_ja9e4st wrote



TJR843 t1_ja9sjke wrote

I admire your optimism but if climate change doesn't take us or this country even makes it past the next election cycle the current system 50 years from now will be the same. I suggest reading some theory and books that haven't been tainted by capitalist and imperialist propaganda. My money is this country doesn't make it another 10. It can't at this rate without an outright turn towards fascism, which just like in the past the right is pushing us towards.


[deleted] t1_ja9t78w wrote



TJR843 t1_ja9vydx wrote

Climate change will make the west and parts of the global south unlivable sooner than you think. The alternative is scrapping capitalism entirely and working towards a sustainable future that serves the needs of the many over the wants of the few. We are kneecapped by capitalism, big business and the rich from ever making any significant progress towards fixing it. That isn't even in question anymore. An economic system that demands constant and ever increasing profits, exploitation and resource extraction is incompatible with a planet that has finite resources. That's is essentially why you will see "Capitalism is a death cult" thrown around all the time. Humanity has risen to huge challenges before, we can do it, but we need to throw Capitalism in the dustbin of history.


[deleted] t1_ja9xfmp wrote



TJR843 t1_jaa2hsw wrote

I disagree on some points above, primarily capitalism in any form continuing and a bit below but I wish you the best. Cheers.


[deleted] t1_jabj5rc wrote



TJR843 t1_jaby4mc wrote

Sure humans need an incentive to work, but that doesn't need to be profit. Looking at plenty of civilizations outside a western lense will show you that. Working for the betterment of your fellow man and the advancement of humanity itself should be paramount. First we work to fix the environment, then we lift people across the world, then we look to the stars again. Automation and UBI benefiting the majority is great, but the way we are heading that will not be the case. You would be silly to think the owner class will give up the profits automation provides to the working class. No one should be seriously concerned about incentives to work or getting things done, that is capitalist propaganda. We're fine and rise to challenges, the owner class isn't, doesn't and never have. We have hundreds of years of history to back that up too.


[deleted] t1_jabylfu wrote



TJR843 t1_jadla8j wrote

Define what you mean by policing. You seem to think people would be chomping at the bit to screw the system and their fellow members of the community. That doesn't happen as often as you think it does. For years now the total monetary amount stolen through wage theft by employers has been higher than the total monetary amount stolen by normal everyday criminals.

You're getting into sociology here, but "doing more for others" and "working until they're content and stopping" isn't the same under capitalism as it would be without it. You seem to be attributing capitalist thought and experience to a system that wouldn't have capitalist structures. I can assure you, the line "humans aren't built to live in communities like this" or "innovation doesn't happen under socialism/communism" or "humans are meant to be competitive with each other" are outright lies that aren't supported by any data or sociologists worth their salt.

Have you ever heard "there is no such thing as ethical consumption or living under capitalism"? Well, it's the truth. Even though I live under this system, I do my best through mutual aid efforts, volunteering my time and knowledge to help those that need it more than I do. I am involved in groups that work within my community. Under this system that is the best I can do. I don't go to Turkey for the same reasons you likely can't. You could buy me a ticket, but what are you going to do about mine and my wife's financial and familial obligations back home? Will you buy my hotel? Will you help ease the burden of me losing my job? Will you pay my rent? Groceries? Take care of my cats? The question of why don't I go to Turkey to help is honestly absurd.

Be an owner you say? I'm sorry but I was not born into a privileged class where any bank would give me a loan to start one. To get out of what I was born into I needed to take on financial burdens. People don't start at the same spot in life, nor do bankers provide the same level of assistance to the working class as they do the owner class and wealthy.

If you have the ability to start hundreds of businesses so easily, I question what your upbringing was. Are you someone born into wealth? You could start worker owned co-ops which while not perfect, would be significantly more ethical than starting a corporation or LLC. What happens after you leave? The board continues and prioritizes profit over the workers at the business you started and the cycle continues. Who's to say the person that takes your spot isn't worse?

I think you could do with reading some theory and history books if you're asking me how my ideas would work or be implemented. There are certainly people smarter than I that have studied the topics in greater length and written on the topics.


[deleted] t1_jadtamq wrote



TJR843 t1_jae1uqn wrote

>but how you think people are, just isnt how it plays irl. Youre looking at the world how you think it should be and I think you would benefit greatly looking at it for what it is.

... sociologists don't back that claim up, so where the hell are you getting that idea from? I said read some theory and history books because it's plainly clear based on what you have been saying is that you have fallen victim (not your fault) to the endless capitalist propaganda and hustle culture bullshit that has been funneled down your throat since you got to first grade.

>Theres ways you can start a business with 0 money. Tons of work. I mean you dont get a life for 5 or so years. You got to throw everything else away and put your head down and bust ass.

Why? Not everyone wants to start a business. I don't want to be rich. I don't need monetary value to feel self worth. No one should struggle mentally and gamble their futures for a chance to start a business that has a significantly higher chance of failure and financial ruin than it does success. I could start a business doing something I like, and be good at it, but that doesn't mean it will be successful.

>When I say policing I mean say you have 5 builders. Theyre building a house. 1 of those guys doesnt work as hard or as much as the other 4. Hes lazy slow or whatever.

>That brings the morale of the 4 down. They get mad at the other guy.

This is not the rule, it is the exception. Maybe it may be worth looking into why the one guy is acting like that? It's so simple minded and an indicator you have a warped view of things to just write the "lazy guy" off as nothing but a burden without wanting to look into why that may be. You would be silly to correlate the one guy that is like this in a capitalist business to the one guy in a socialist or communist state run business.

>There are always people who look to beat the system. If theres a system in place yes people are out there learning how to beat it and manipulate it.

Again, this is the exception, not the rule. I don't know what else to say other than you have a very sad and warped view of your fellow working class people. I'm not attacking you, I just find it extremely sad to see working class people, like yourself, say something that is a myth created by the rich and capitalists to divide the working class against itself. You should read the book Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti.

>In theory if i pay more then everyone else, where will the talent want to work ?

Work is more than pay, at least in capitalist structures. It's about what you offer benefits wise. The data shows people take less pay when there is more PTO and better benefits. Unfortunately though it is already from the moment of employment an unbalanced relationship. Your employees are afraid of losing their jobs mainly because there are no robust worker protections and in the US the moment you lose your job is the moment you lose your insurance. This is financial ruin for most, with 64% of yearly bankruptcies being tied to outstanding medical debt. The relationship between worker and owner on the US and capitalist structures is inherently unbalanced in favor of the owner. That isn't in question, workers are just forced to accept that.

>Im guessing youre young ?

I am in my 30s, have a degree and currently work with some of the largest corporations in the world as my clients (not by choice). I have plenty of experience and see all the evil shit I speak about first hand, which has helped to shape my views. I don't know about you, but if all you have is a business degree to go off of and not experience in that world, you don't know shit about the realities of what it's like out here or in the corporate world. I am forced to stay because my healthcare is tied to my employment and I willingly take less pay so I can have PTO whenever I need it. That doesn't stop me from fighting for my fellow working class comrades.

>I dont think your way is possible. At least not anytime soon.

Thankfully, history doesn't agree with that statement.


TJR843 t1_jae3n12 wrote

Please note, I'm not trying to attack you in my responses. If it comes off that way, I apologize.


[deleted] t1_jae4uj3 wrote



TJR843 t1_jae4zp7 wrote

Highlight my text and select quote. You can also paste what I put in front of a >


spaitken t1_ja6zifn wrote

Well, good to know that we’ve officially learned nothing from all this.

See you in a few days when this all happens again.


clementine1864 t1_ja61256 wrote

If the people in this state elect Republicans this is what will happen , human suffering and death are collateral damage to profit.


SkunkMonkey t1_ja7h8eg wrote

As long as we have politicians with corporate sponsorships, this will continue regardless of party.


clementine1864 t1_ja9pxkg wrote

Congress has become a lucrative job for politicians which it is was never intended to be ,maybe limit them all to a single term ,no pensions , etc and they can't return for several cycles to allow others to come and go . There definitely should be no lobbyists or corporate sponsorships. All we have now is government for sale and the average person is not relevant to any of them. For me the lunacy ,greed and blatant hypocrisy of the Republicans is so obnoxious they are unbearable.


ThePNWGamingDad t1_ja6mg69 wrote

I’m surprised the residents haven’t ripped the track up to stop them. Fuck all that noise.


SnagglepussJoke t1_ja6u0hw wrote

We’re going to start seeing derailments on the news with the same regularity mass shootings.


AlphSaber t1_ja6uzd7 wrote

Because of how derailments are reported, everything from a wheel coming off the track in a yard shuffle to a pile up like East Palestine will count.


atlantachicago t1_ja6e8wd wrote

I think it seems like total BS that The EPA seems to be saying everything is fine. Who is running the EPA now?


CaptainLucid420 t1_ja6xirg wrote

If I were a repulicrap I would argue that it is disgusting that they are cleaning up the toxic waste to texas and that it was disgusting that they were not cleaning up the toxic waste at the same time.


fakerjohn t1_ja78gvs wrote

Aren’t we pumping nasty stuff into the ground for cash already all over Ohio?


aarog t1_ja6oci2 wrote

I’m surprised Gary Indiana didn’t volunteer to take it.


UtopianLibrary t1_ja7fz76 wrote

Dumb question, but where is this hazardous waste from? Is there a better way to dispose of it? And, do we actually need to make whatever results in this type of dangerous waste or is it just something we think we need?


SkunkMonkey t1_ja7hmy4 wrote

The waste is from the accident. The train was shipping dangerous chemicals used in processes to make the various things you use everyday. It's not about the product or the waste, it's about the safety of transporting it. These kinds of trains have been running around the US forever. The problem is we've allowed the companies that operate these trains to squeeze more profit in the name of safety and this event is the direct result of that.


HeBoughtALot t1_ja8uopm wrote

America is on the move!


ms_mel_kruger t1_ja6xbgu wrote

Dying to know who was originally on the shipping end and receiving end of this transaction/transport. Personally I don’t blame the train line so much as the people manufacturing and purchasing these products. What is this stuff?!?


Ironfist365 t1_ja7ao4g wrote

These chemicals are used in a wide variety of products and manufacturing processes and that is why the shipments will continue.


ms_mel_kruger t1_ja8552d wrote

So. . . Just did a little reading, the same stuff that’s in our cosmetics is also used for brake fluid, antifreeze, film, solvents, paint and ink (ethylene glycol) And on the polyester we wear and sweat in is also used in antifreeze (ethylene glyco) Then there’s flammable isobutylene which is used to manufacture tires (and helps give rubber it’s rubberiness) which makes me wonder how much of this stuff is in our air and water as tires wear down and are replaced whenever travel And the ethylhexyl acrylate which is used in adhesives and construction materials and probably caused the Nicky mouse voice on that viral video And finally vinyl chloride which is used to make pvc plastic and is a well documented carcinogen I do wish we had better choices than these things


ms_mel_kruger t1_jabk9a8 wrote

If only it had been a train full of honey and honeycomb. Or dried beans. marshmallows? Edamame. Holiday cookies. Wine corks. Cotton balls. Chicken coop bedding.

It truly boggles my mind that our hardware store shelves are lined with Roundup when vinegar, cardboard, and boiling water are arguably both more effective, and a fraction the cost for killing weeds, and beneficial insects are both easier and less expensive than pesticides.

But, hey, capitalism! Hail money!