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thehim t1_j91ixud wrote

“In a statement on Monday the IDF said the soldier had “asked a Palestinian who approached” a military post to “step away.”

“In response, the Palestinian began recording and cursing the soldier. A verbal confrontation followed, which soon became a physical confrontation, during which the soldier hit the Palestinian,” the IDF statement said.”

In a shocking turn of events, the IDF account was fiction and Wright was able to post the video receipts. I would definitely be afraid of an occupation force that felt this comfortable lying about things they know can be refuted by journalists’ video recordings.

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blind_merc t1_j91l8y9 wrote

Link to the footage?

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freshgeardude t1_j92yib6 wrote

Before this story even made it on Twitter, the IDF already put the soldier in jail. Clearly his conduct was bad and swiftly dealt with.

>The Israeli soldier who was filmed assaulting Amro in Hebron was sentenced to 10 days in military jail.

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Phelipp t1_j9334gs wrote

>Clearly his conduct was bad and swiftly dealt with.

Really?

>“In a statement on Monday the IDF said the soldier had “asked a Palestinian who approached” a military post to “step away.”

So why did they say this first? Did the IDF lie and once caught they decided to save face?

Nvm, checked your post history and your account basically exist only to comment on Israel/Palestine issues trying to do PR for Israel

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waiv t1_j936ld0 wrote

A slap on the wrist and only because the palestinian was guiding a New Yorker reporter.

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MeatsimPD t1_j928rb6 wrote

Reminder that the West Bank is not Israeli territory and it's a crime under international law to forcibly annex territory through war and to settle your citizens in that territory.

When Russia conquers a chunk of Ukraine, declares part of it it's territory, and moves in Russian citizens to settle there, it's just as illegal as Israel conquering the West Bank, declaring part of it's territory, and moving it's citizens in to settle there.

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Whisky3 t1_j94dsgy wrote

Violence from Palestinians against Israeli settlers in the West Bank is no different than violence from Ukrainians against Russian settlers in Donetsk/Luhansk.

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UNOvven t1_j94lc6r wrote

Ehhhh. If its targeting civilians its unacceptable. Period. There are no conditions to this. A lot of violence from Palestinians against Israeli is random, hitting civilians, regardless of the illegal occupation and tge many warcrimes committed as part of it, that remains unacceptable.

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Bbrhuft t1_j94vg4h wrote

Just to point out that 56% of the population in the Donbas before the war identifed as Russian speaking Ukrainians while 34% identified as ethinic Russian.

The east of the country was ruled by the Romanovs in the 19th century, while west was part of Austro-Hungarian empire for a long time.

Ukranians in the Donbas started speaking Russian, much like how Irish people under British rule rapidly stopped speaking Irish and switched to English in the 19th century, but they didn't stop being Irish.

There was also an immigration of Russians beginning in the 18th century, that population movement increased in the early 20th century because the mines were looking for workers.

Basically, it wasn't as black and white as portrayed by Russian propaganda. Russian speaker doesn't always mean ethinic Russian.

Ukraine didn't go into the Donbas with the intention of ethically cleansing the region of Russians, as explained the situation wasn't black and white, as many identified as Russian speaking Ukrainians.

Russia installed a number of pro-Russian milita leaders, some like Strelkov (involved in shooting down MH17) came from outside, from Russia. Russia stirred up, instigated and suported a separatist movement that Ukraine tried to resist, that was covertly suported by the Russian army. Strange for farmers and miners to find so many T-72s lying around. And, when it seemed that the pro-Russian militas were going to loose, the Russian military secretly invaded Ukraine and routed the Ukranian army.

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MeatsimPD t1_j94onvw wrote

Except that Donetsk and Luhansk are part of Ukraine, not Russia. And the West Bank is not part of Israel.

But of course violence against civilians is wrong, the issue needs to be solved by the governments involves not by killing or harming civilians (even if they are illegally settling outside their country)

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freshgeardude t1_j92yrbu wrote

The west Bank has never be part of a formal country as the Jordanians occupied it in 1949 after it was previously in british and ottoman hands. Until there's a Palestinian country with defined borders, it's still in dispute. Which is all to say, Israel has already shown a willingness to evacuate its citizens in exchange for peace (see: Sinai, Gaza, and proposed Golan heights).

Additionally, Ukraine thinks of itself as Israel in the conflict, not the Palestinians

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waiv t1_j9372ty wrote

It's occupied territory, according to every single international human rights organization and the Israeli Supreme Court. Only the Israeli government insists on that silly "disputed territories" name as a way to pretend they are not committing war crimes.

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MeatsimPD t1_j938ffe wrote

> The west Bank has never be part of a formal country

Even if this were true, it doesn't mean it's "free real estate" that any other country can just go in and settle without regard to the people who live there. Colonialism is not a thing anymore.

>Which is all to say, Israel has already shown a willingness to evacuate its citizens in exchange for peace (see: Sinai, Gaza, and proposed Golan heights).

That's true, Israel did withdraw from the Sinai and has a lasting peace with Egypt. That withdraw includes removing the settlements Israelis had established.

But Israel has not withdrawn from the Golan Heights or the West Bank, though it did withdraw from Gaza. These examples show that while removing settlements doesn't immediately lead to peace, it is a necessary pre condition.

>Additionally, Ukraine thinks of itself as Israel in the conflict, not the Palestinians

Does it? Ukraine isn't forcibly occupying territory outside its recognized borders, but Israel is

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freshgeardude t1_j93mgg2 wrote

>Even if this were true, it doesn't mean it's "free real estate" that any other country can just go in and settle without regard to the people who live there. Colonialism is not a thing anymore.

I mean there're still multiple conflicts on this planet with disputed lands. And you're pretending the settlements are specifically displacing existing communities to move in Israeli communities. That's not happening

> That's true, Israel did withdraw from the Sinai and has a lasting peace with Egypt. That withdraw includes removing the settlements Israelis had established. > > But Israel has not withdrawn from the Golan Heights or the West Bank, though it did withdraw from Gaza. These examples show that while removing settlements doesn't immediately lead to peace, it is a necessary pre condition.

Factually untrue. Actually the opposite.

After a peace agreement with Egypt, then settlements were removed. As for Gaza, they removed them first and have Hamas now. There's zero chance Israel is making the same mistake..

>Does it? Ukraine isn't forcibly occupying territory outside its recognized borders, but Israel is

Perhaps this conflict is more complicated than you think.

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MeatsimPD t1_j93osiy wrote

> And you're pretending the settlements are specifically displacing existing communities to move in Israeli communities. That's not happening

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/06/israel-occupation-50-years-of-dispossession/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/20/land-beyond-road-forbidden-israeli-settler-shepherds-displacing-palestinians

https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/stories/in-the-west-bank-segregated-roads-displace-palestinians/index.html

No one can honestly say that all the land occupied by Israeli settlers was empty or unowned prior to their arrival. Honestly you've just made one of the most absurd statements about the West Bank I've ever heard, so absurd I have to believe it's a deliberate lie because no one could be so misinformed

>As for Gaza, they removed them first and have Hamas now. There's zero chance Israel is making the same mistake

Are you telling me that the rise of Hamas in Gaza is because Israel removed it's settlements?

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freshgeardude t1_j93ql9a wrote

Did a single settlement consist of kicking out Palestinians, razing it, and building a Jewish community ontop or are you going to send me articles about animals grazing or roads being put up?

>Are you telling me that the rise of Hamas in Gaza is because Israel removed it's settlements?

No I'm saying the one time settlements were preemptively removed has lead to countless wars with Hamas. Israel isn't leaving the west Bank willingly and the majority settlment blocks are never going to be evacuated. Both sides know this and land swaps have already in theory been agreed on

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MeatsimPD t1_j93sumo wrote

> Did a single settlement consist of kicking out Palestinians, razing it, and building a Jewish community ontop or are you going to send me articles about animals grazing or roads being put up?

I honestly believe you being deliberately obtuse if you're going to tell me it doesn't matter to people whose livelihoods is raising animals whether or not they have access to grazing lands.

But to answer your question the answer is yes, here's some examples

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehelim

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brukhin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modi%27in_Illit

And here are the camps many of the people who have lost their homes now live in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee_camps

Even today Palestinian homes are being torn down https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem

>Israel isn't leaving the west Bank willingly and the majority settlment blocks are never going to be evacuated.

I don't disagree, Israel's military occupation is permanent for the foreseeable future, but none of this changes the facts:

Fact 1) The West Bank is not part of Israel's territory

Fact 2) Annexing territory by force is against international law

Fact 3) Settling your citizens on seized lands outside of your state's territory is against international law.

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EffectiveSign2230 t1_j91x844 wrote

this Subreddit is so much better than worldnews where speaking out against Israeli atrocities gets you banned.

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dissolutewastrel t1_j92a88j wrote

atrocity

a different atrocity If you prefer video to still pictures, go here

Here's yet another atrocity

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Politics_Frog t1_j943bl4 wrote

One is someone not affiliated with government officials or state, the other is upholding Israeli right wing government which you are defending.

You seriously can't process what is happening. You also link to a literal right wing propaganda outlet.

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[deleted] t1_j93be24 wrote

[deleted]

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dissolutewastrel t1_j93pmib wrote

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/10/world/middleeast/jerusalem-car-attack.html --> A man drove a car into a group of civilians outside an Israeli settlement in what the police described as a terrorist attack. A 6-year-old was among those killed.

More NYTimes: Driver Plows Into Group at Jerusalem Train Station, Killing Baby, Police Say

Even more NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/world/middleeast/palestinian-rams-car-into-crowd-of-israelis-at-jerusalem-bus-stop.html

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[deleted] t1_j94kcir wrote

[removed]

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dissolutewastrel t1_j94v4fd wrote

> 8-year-old boy critically hurt in Jerusalem attack dies, a day after younger brother

Pictures of all three killed at the link, plus a photo of the attacker.

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Cold-Reflectionz t1_j91kelz wrote

As long as the US supports an apartheid state like Israel, there will be no consequences.

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j920b62 wrote

>apartheid state

Arab Israelis have the exact same rights as Jewish Israelis.

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MeatsimPD t1_j928fi7 wrote

> Arab Israelis have the exact same rights as Jewish Israelis.

What about people under Israeli military occupation? Let's not forget that the West Bank and Golan Heights are not part of Israel. Yet millions of people live in these areas and are denied or refuse Israeli citizenship, including representation in government, yet live unde Israeli law (whether civil or military law)

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j928qpt wrote

>What about people under Israeli military occupation?

You mean the hostile foreign nation that launches missiles into civilian population centers?

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MeatsimPD t1_j928zi3 wrote

It's not a foreign nation unless Israel has recognized a sovereign state of Palestine. (It hasn't) and if it was a foreign nation then settling your citizens in it's territory would still be absolutely illegal under international law

And yes civilians have been targeted and have been killed by both sides in this conflict and the act of targeting civilians is immoral and illegal regardless of who is occupying who

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j92d5dz wrote

>And yes civilians have been targeted

Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from.

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MeatsimPD t1_j92he0q wrote

> Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from

I mean that's demonstrably untrue, for example https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem

https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-finds-israeli-strike-killed-5-children-in-gaza-during-recent-operation-report/

Also I noticed you didn't respond to the topic of Israel's occupation and settlement outside of it's territory. Do you acknowledge that it's a crime to annex territory through force and settle your citizens in that territory? Yes or no.

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j92iszw wrote

>> Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from > >I mean that's demonstrably untrue, for example https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem > >https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting > >https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-finds-israeli-strike-killed-5-children-in-gaza-during-recent-operation-report/

Hamas is well known for using human shields

>Also I noticed you didn't respond to the topic of Israel's occupation and settlement outside of it's territory. Do you acknowledge that it's a crime to annex territory through force and settle your citizens in that territory? Yes or no.

Do you acknowledge that some of those towns were there before the region was divided between Israel and Palestine?

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MeatsimPD t1_j92jh9s wrote

> Hamas is well known for using human shields

None of the examples I cited where this, one of them was even an IDF investigation that found it has killed several children without there being a military target nearby.

I'm sensing a pattern where you aren't engaged in reality

>Do you acknowledge that some of those towns were there before the region was divided between Israel and Palestine?

Absolutely there were Jewish communities in the West Bank before 1948 or 1967 but not many. We also have a list of these settlements so you can see when they were founded

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_settlements

Note that these were built after Israel occupied the West Bank even though the West Bank is NOT Israeli territory

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waiver t1_j92impg wrote

And yet they kill far more civilians than Hamas.

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j92lvtv wrote

Only because of Israel's robust missile defense system. If you shoot someone and they're wearing a bulletproof vest, it's still a crime.

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waiver t1_j92o6hb wrote

You seem to believe the rockets killed a lot of people before the Iron Dome, nothing further from the truth.

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j92opni wrote

Not for lack of trying.

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waiver t1_j92prdr wrote

Yeah, they don't have the missiles that Israel uses to kill kids in cemeteries or the naval artillery that Israel uses to blow up kids playing on the beach.

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Retrogressive t1_j92hgcd wrote

You are either a liar or a fool.

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crumpledcactus t1_j93e7zx wrote

He's both. He's a clearly a contractee through Hasbara. They advertise on tiktok, and pay randos to open zionist troll accounts for around minimum wage. As an American Jew, these chumps don't represent me, or anyone other than the Israelis. At this point, most American Jews are either very cold towards Israel, or are outright anti-zionists. We even have a subreddit : r/JewsOfConscience.

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sackstothemax t1_j94jbuu wrote

As a fellow American Jew that is just plain false, don’t claim to to be misrepresented and then immediately misrepresent us yourself

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crumpledcactus t1_j94to7q wrote

Here's the data. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/21/u-s-jews-have-widely-differing-views-on-israel/

Essentially it boils down to only Jews in the Orthodox and Conservative movements supporting Israel en masse. When teens are factored in, American Jews who are don't see Israel as critical to their view of Jewishness could be as high as 80%, I've personally never met a zionist who wasn't either an Israeli, a Christian, or a Jew over the age of 40.

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sackstothemax t1_j967es6 wrote

>Caring about Israel is “essential” to what being Jewish means to 45% of U.S. Jewish adults, and an additional 37% say it is “important, but not essential,”

How on earth do you reconcile this with your assertion that “most American Jews are either very cold towards Israel, or are outright anti-zionists”? So called “Jews of conscience” (which is an insufferably sanctimonious term in the first place) are a clear minority whose prevalence you are vastly overstating

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Seeking-Something-3 t1_j92p75d wrote

Good thing they’re trying to push that new law through! You know, the one that allows them to deport Israeli citizens to the West Bank and Gaza.

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j92qbp6 wrote

>deport Israeli citizens to the West Bank and Gaza.

If they get the citizenship under false pretenses in order to commit terrorist acts.

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mlc885 t1_j949cle wrote

So who gets civil rights?

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Iceykitsune2 t1_j949swk wrote

You'd be suspicious of immigrants from a hostile government that has your nations destruction in their constitution.

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mlc885 t1_j928ksm wrote

Isn't an ethnostate just naturally controversial to anyone who lives in a real (Or faux) Western democracy?

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Artistic_Fall_9992 t1_j921zzq wrote

In paper yes.

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ichallengeyoo t1_j928mso wrote

…and in reality. You’re probably confusing Palestinians with Israeli Arabs. The first are not Israeli citizens and don’t get the same rights as an Israeli citizen would.

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Isthisworking2000 t1_j92nl6f wrote

I would expect all Palestinians are at this point. Israel executes reporters on air.

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crumpledcactus t1_j93fb4h wrote

Israel also bombed the Associated Press building in Palestine. They claimed they used a warning device, but reports and journalists reported hearing no warning. Israel has basically gone full fascist through Kahanism. One famous Kahanist was Baruch Goldstein. Goldstein massacred 29 people and wounded 125 in the Cave of the Patriachs massacre. His youngest victim was only 12 years old. The newly elected fascist minister of the interior, BenGvir, keeps a framed portrait of Goldstein in his house.

Israel knows what they're doing. Most (60-80%) of American Jews are either very cold against Israel, or are outright anti-zionists. We are tired of the evil.

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Isthisworking2000 t1_j93fxvk wrote

I’ve been opposed to the Israeli government for a long time. They do pretty horrible shit and blame it on terrorists. How can you invade someone’s home and punish them for trying to survive and not see yourself as the bad guy?

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mlc885 t1_j927k1m wrote

I would be scared for my life if my experience was that they probably won't murder me for saying things they don't like.

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