Submitted by CrackHeadRodeo t3_115gvzr in news
MeatsimPD t1_j928fi7 wrote
Reply to comment by Iceykitsune2 in Palestinian activist beaten by Israeli soldier tells CNN he is scared for his life. by CrackHeadRodeo
> Arab Israelis have the exact same rights as Jewish Israelis.
What about people under Israeli military occupation? Let's not forget that the West Bank and Golan Heights are not part of Israel. Yet millions of people live in these areas and are denied or refuse Israeli citizenship, including representation in government, yet live unde Israeli law (whether civil or military law)
[deleted] t1_j92ruk9 wrote
[removed]
Iceykitsune2 t1_j928qpt wrote
>What about people under Israeli military occupation?
You mean the hostile foreign nation that launches missiles into civilian population centers?
MeatsimPD t1_j928zi3 wrote
It's not a foreign nation unless Israel has recognized a sovereign state of Palestine. (It hasn't) and if it was a foreign nation then settling your citizens in it's territory would still be absolutely illegal under international law
And yes civilians have been targeted and have been killed by both sides in this conflict and the act of targeting civilians is immoral and illegal regardless of who is occupying who
Iceykitsune2 t1_j92d5dz wrote
>And yes civilians have been targeted
Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from.
MeatsimPD t1_j92he0q wrote
> Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from
I mean that's demonstrably untrue, for example https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting
Also I noticed you didn't respond to the topic of Israel's occupation and settlement outside of it's territory. Do you acknowledge that it's a crime to annex territory through force and settle your citizens in that territory? Yes or no.
Iceykitsune2 t1_j92iszw wrote
>> Israel doesn't target civilians, they only bomb locations where missiles have been launched from > >I mean that's demonstrably untrue, for example https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/israel-ramps-up-demolition-of-palestinian-homes-in-jerusalem > >https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/07/27/gaza-apparent-war-crimes-during-may-fighting > >https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-finds-israeli-strike-killed-5-children-in-gaza-during-recent-operation-report/
Hamas is well known for using human shields
>Also I noticed you didn't respond to the topic of Israel's occupation and settlement outside of it's territory. Do you acknowledge that it's a crime to annex territory through force and settle your citizens in that territory? Yes or no.
Do you acknowledge that some of those towns were there before the region was divided between Israel and Palestine?
MeatsimPD t1_j92jh9s wrote
> Hamas is well known for using human shields
None of the examples I cited where this, one of them was even an IDF investigation that found it has killed several children without there being a military target nearby.
I'm sensing a pattern where you aren't engaged in reality
>Do you acknowledge that some of those towns were there before the region was divided between Israel and Palestine?
Absolutely there were Jewish communities in the West Bank before 1948 or 1967 but not many. We also have a list of these settlements so you can see when they were founded
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_settlements
Note that these were built after Israel occupied the West Bank even though the West Bank is NOT Israeli territory
waiver t1_j92impg wrote
And yet they kill far more civilians than Hamas.
Iceykitsune2 t1_j92lvtv wrote
Only because of Israel's robust missile defense system. If you shoot someone and they're wearing a bulletproof vest, it's still a crime.
waiver t1_j92o6hb wrote
You seem to believe the rockets killed a lot of people before the Iron Dome, nothing further from the truth.
Iceykitsune2 t1_j92opni wrote
Not for lack of trying.
waiver t1_j92prdr wrote
Yeah, they don't have the missiles that Israel uses to kill kids in cemeteries or the naval artillery that Israel uses to blow up kids playing on the beach.
Retrogressive t1_j92hgcd wrote
You are either a liar or a fool.
crumpledcactus t1_j93e7zx wrote
He's both. He's a clearly a contractee through Hasbara. They advertise on tiktok, and pay randos to open zionist troll accounts for around minimum wage. As an American Jew, these chumps don't represent me, or anyone other than the Israelis. At this point, most American Jews are either very cold towards Israel, or are outright anti-zionists. We even have a subreddit : r/JewsOfConscience.
sackstothemax t1_j94jbuu wrote
As a fellow American Jew that is just plain false, don’t claim to to be misrepresented and then immediately misrepresent us yourself
crumpledcactus t1_j94to7q wrote
Here's the data. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/21/u-s-jews-have-widely-differing-views-on-israel/
Essentially it boils down to only Jews in the Orthodox and Conservative movements supporting Israel en masse. When teens are factored in, American Jews who are don't see Israel as critical to their view of Jewishness could be as high as 80%, I've personally never met a zionist who wasn't either an Israeli, a Christian, or a Jew over the age of 40.
sackstothemax t1_j967es6 wrote
>Caring about Israel is “essential” to what being Jewish means to 45% of U.S. Jewish adults, and an additional 37% say it is “important, but not essential,”
How on earth do you reconcile this with your assertion that “most American Jews are either very cold towards Israel, or are outright anti-zionists”? So called “Jews of conscience” (which is an insufferably sanctimonious term in the first place) are a clear minority whose prevalence you are vastly overstating
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