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OmarLittleFinger t1_j81xmwp wrote

Is the attention to this balloon because of how absurd it is at the same time?

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enonmouse t1_j8205ad wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,775,494)

Most sensitive sites are in the middle of nowhere and have have big buffer zones around them, in part to make doing that difficult. You also cant see a lot because of line of sight.

I am sorry my dude, i dont think you are cut out for espionage.

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Meat-brah t1_j820cr8 wrote

Maybe the CIA should try this. I heard their informants are having issues abroad.

Edit: why the downvotes? They admitted they are losing too many informants internationally.

NYT article

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ProphetTurtle t1_j821onq wrote

“We did not assess that it presented a significant collection hazard beyond what already exists in actionable technical means from the Chinese,” said Gen. Glenn VanHerck, the commander of US Northern Command and NORAD, on Monday.

So what was the point? Or maybe just maybe it wasnt a spy balloon

−25

erichhaubrich t1_j82361t wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,775,494)

The fact that there might be a better way to collect certain types of information does not mean that less-effective and even riskier and more expensive methods of collection will not also be exploited, even if just to disrupt and cause havoc.

Also: Some data cannot easily be collected from the ground, and some communications/data stuff involving a balloon like this one could get pretty creative and go unnoticed by safeguards on land-based networks.

Ground Station to Balloon to Satellite Network to Chinese Government Balloon Enthusiast could be a scenario.

It could also be nothing to worry about.

Either way, I'm glad we have smart folks working on this.

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jayrocksd t1_j825jld wrote

Replying to TintedApostle (#1,775,878)

The capability of the Chinese balloon and the U-2 aren't well known. The intent of flying a U-2 over a foreign country is pretty obvious. The U-2 observing the Chinese balloon was able to determine the balloon was doing intelligence gathering as well, so the intent is also obvious.

It is also an incontrovertible fact that doing either in foreign airspace without permission is a violation of international law assuming the payload of the balloon weighs more than 5kg (approximately 40 bananas.)

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Thunderhamz t1_j826eon wrote

It pops if you send guided missile at it, that is all.

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andoesq t1_j8277n4 wrote

Replying to OmarLittleFinger (#1,775,570)

I dunno, I saw in that article the referred to doing U2 flybys...

Which is a spy plane from 1954.

I guess absurd is relative? The US spies on an absurd Chinese balloon with (absurdly) a 1954 plane?

−18

taci7c0ff33 OP t1_j82eaxw wrote

I was just amazed how little this was covered on Reddit while being full blast everywhere else.

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thefugue t1_j82gh6z wrote

Replying to OmarLittleFinger (#1,775,570)

To some extent, yes.

At the start of last week, the idea of a balloon based spy technology was absurd and absolutely news worthy. In the worldview of the average person it would have been worthy of a punchline about Cuba or North Korean espionage.

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thefugue t1_j82gnsw wrote

Replying to apalebear (#1,775,680)

Everyone does. The CIA had a project where they were trying to install spy equipment in a cat’s body in the 70s or 80s. A lot of spy craft takes advantage of what people refuse to take seriously. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t.

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SomeDEGuy t1_j82locf wrote

Replying to andoesq (#1,776,055)

New models from 80s, with an upgrade a decade ago.

We have a limited number of planes that can do flybys at extremely high altitude.

Plus, if we did have a secret plane that could do it, we'd not want to reveal that and just use a u2, sinces it's flight performance is fairly well known.

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Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_j82lza6 wrote

Replying to ProphetTurtle (#1,775,763)

What do you mean what was the point? We’re just supposed to let military equipment float through our airspace and do nothing as it poses a hazard to our national security? The point of blowing it out of the sky is to keep foreign military spy platforms out of our skies.

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Sapper12D t1_j82p7ka wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#1,775,899)

>Considering that they own a fuckton of our debt and basically make everything for us, may be worth a drop of sweat or two if it doesn't cool down soon.

They'd hurt themselves just as much of not more then the US by dumping the bonds.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/040115/reasons-why-china-buys-us-treasury-bonds.asp#:~:text=If%20China%20(or%20any%20other,worse%20off%20as%20a%20result.

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ViciousCombover t1_j83090u wrote

Replying to Meat-brah (#1,775,702)

You’re downvoted because anything construed as appearing negative towards the US is seen as defending China. Absurd, I know.

Every major power spies on everybody else, even their allies. People just feel extra gung-ho since all the Ukraine stuff started recently.

3

sleepingwiththefishs t1_j8352ag wrote

It seems anachronistic simply because one assumes everyone was using satellites and space planes.

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erichhaubrich t1_j8380ll wrote

Replying to the_donnie (#1,777,384)

You may have missed my previous (entire history of) posts.

I have zero tolerance for any adversary of the United States.

Xi, Putin, Kim and any other authoritarian regimes are the enemies of democracy and global security. Fuck every single one of them and all of their friends. I do not see a path to friendship with China, Russia, or DPRK at least until their current regimes are gone.

What I said was that the CIA has probably done some crazy shit with balloons. An example might be extracting operators using weather balloons and big hooks on planes.

I would not put them past doing some less productive shit with balloons as well. Omelettes often require a number of eggs to end up broken.

Cheers!

3

erichhaubrich t1_j838zgo wrote

Replying to the_donnie (#1,777,384)

BTW: The CCP are extremely fucking bad. They are the biggest threat to global security we face by a very large margin, and are a bigger threat to our national security than anything we faced during the Cold War.

5

genericrich t1_j84dfds wrote

Replying to thefugue (#1,776,510)

You do this before a war to get a baseline of what you can gather with a balloon.

In the war, the satellites will all get shot down. It will be hard if not impossible to put up new ones after that. Look up Kessler syndrome.

So now you can fly your cheapie spy balloons over the ravaged USA to see what the Americans are up to next, and compare it to what you learned before the war.

−8

MonkeMayne t1_j84nth6 wrote

Is this the one they shot down yesterday or the OG Chinese balloon shot down by Myrtle Beach?

1

WestSixtyFifth t1_j84or2r wrote

Replying to genericrich (#1,779,760)

China isn't going to war with the US and the West. Don't be ridiculous. They depend on importing way too much shit and there's only one earth. They can't find a replacement West.

They're just pushing the boundaries of what they're allowed to get away with. They know they're squarely the second power in the world, and that the US isn't going to escalate things without Americans being harmed. So they can pretty much do anything, like fly a spy balloon over 40 countries, and across the entire continental United States. With minimal, if any consequences.

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zaidakaid t1_j84vitz wrote

Replying to MonkeMayne (#1,780,321)

We don’t know if the one over Alaska was a balloon or not, details aren’t out on that one. Only that it’s a UFO, officials corrected the journalist that called it a balloon by saying it’s currently being referred to as an object.

3

backcountrydrifter t1_j84xfdk wrote

Replying to Diligent-Kangaroo-33 (#1,780,764)

Raise your lens.

A balloon with an EMP charge on it could cripple 1/3 of the US power grid.

As a SIG-INT ISR tool it could intercept and divert critical defense communications.

N.B.C. Warfare isn’t really my area of expertise, but anything aerosolized at that altitude would be a highly effective weapon.

Xi Jinping said “I will control the internet” and he has a 14 year head start.

There is a lot more going on here than a stray balloon.

https://open.spotify.com/show/62dyKz8nKOOCjoU3E5ECdn?si=aUyQMg5VTLqD1REEZWRokg

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nothrfathed t1_j84y62i wrote

Replying to enonmouse (#1,775,691)

Not only that, but most if not all communications are encoded. Makes it more of a challenge to actually sense any value. OTOH, maybe it was simply a test of their improved decoding tech. Anyone think it strange all the noise makers don't seem to think about roots of security???

1

Diligent-Kangaroo-33 t1_j855czl wrote

More then likely it's down loading all the intelligence information from all the Chinese built laptops and cell phones. Just think all the Chinese made apple products downloading into this balloon. Afraid of china but gotta keep buying all that cheap Chinese products..

9

genericrich t1_j8649zy wrote

Replying to WestSixtyFifth (#1,780,368)

News Flash: Militaries whose governments may not want war nevertheless plan for war. We have plans for invading Belgium, updated annually, for example. Not because the USA wants to invade Belgium, but because we want to be ready to do so if we need to.

Making the US agitated serves very little purpose, other than escalate tensions. You don't build and fly sophisticated spy rigs hanging from balloons without a plan, and China is known for long-term planning. It's not ridiculous notion to suggest that an otherwise nonsensical surveillance platform might have a use in a post-war scenario with the USA.

−3

genericrich t1_j865dcx wrote

Replying to decomposition_ (#1,780,116)

Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware Reddit was the place you had to cite your sources for speculation about how folks aren't seemingly aware of how useful a balloon is for surveillance, and under what scenarios they might be critical.

Will leave the basic googling to you. Look into how cheap and useful balloons are, and why you might want to use them to understand and prepare for a conflict your military has been tasked with getting ready for, regardless of whether or not you intend to really fight a war.

−1

RuTsui t1_j89js8o wrote

Replying to Agent_Angelo_Pappas (#1,776,801)

I think they mean what’s was the point of China launching them in the first place if it doesn’t do anything more for China’s spying capabilities.

What was the point of China launching it, not what was the point of shooting it down.

1

Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_j8a6pts wrote

Replying to RuTsui (#1,789,572)

If you look at the Pentagon’s statement they didn’t actually make any comparisons to satellites like that

Obviously a balloon presents much different monitoring opportunities than a satellite. A satellite would be 200+ miles up and have only a brief window to observe a target because it’s moving 15,000+ mph relative to the ground to maintain orbit

Being able to float 10 miles over a target for hours or days is a much different situation than a satellite. The takeaway I had from the DOD was that nothing on board was new, it was similar optics/sensing/communication equipment as what goes on spy planes operating around the same altitude

1