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corpse_flour t1_is91sln wrote

The fact that they continued to fight instead of rendering aid to their injured kids shows that they cared more about their fight than the lives of their offspring. I can't imagine how self-absorbed one would have to be to think like that.


egospiers t1_isa5ag4 wrote

Shit is crazy after the first guys 4 year old! Was shot he didn’t drive to the hospital, he didn’t call 911… no he continued down the road and emptied his glock into the other guys car. There needs to be some child endangerment charges added as least.


Odd_Bag_289 t1_isa2klf wrote

If they didn't fight who would protect the guns? Someone could have taken those protective fathers guns and shot someone's innocent child.


YoLoDrScientist t1_isa7cgk wrote

Clearly the kids should have had guns this wouldn’t have been an issue


Odd_Bag_289 t1_isaxqks wrote

Finally some words of wisdom. People How long are we going to be forced to live in a world where our children, our innocent soft minded youth cannot arm themselves for protection from other soft minded youths with guns. We need to make firearms more accessible to America's youth for protection. Common sense


pzerr t1_isbw696 wrote

What they should have done is settled it via a dual from five feet. Alone. Let God figure out who is guilty.


TheFudge t1_is94hws wrote

How shitty of a parent do you have to be after knowing your child has been shot, rather than immediately high tail it to the hospital, you pull over, get out of your fucking car and get in a fist fight with the other shot for brains.


melissamyth t1_isa9qdu wrote

The stupidity started before that with them break checking each other while their own kids were in their own respective vehicles. Road rage is already stupid, and they proved they didn’t care about their kids safety long before guns were involved.


MrHollandsOpium t1_iscs8i0 wrote

Correct. Brake checking someone is fucking stupid. Proceeding to let it go AT THAT clearly demonstrates their lack of IQ and…..their residence in Florida.


Odd_Bag_289 t1_isa0cnn wrote

Daughters? They had to protect their guns from other fathers with guns protecting their own daughter's! What don't you understand about this situation?


ughliterallycanteven t1_isfiz6a wrote

Well they’re children and not fetuses or guns so they’re on the “don’t” list


morphballganon t1_is9b3vi wrote

I don't know exactly how shitty because I have never personally observed anyone (myself or someone else) come close


SnooCauliflowers5742 t1_is8yqun wrote

Hope they both lose custody of their kids.


frankie109 t1_is8zqfe wrote

I hope they get 25 years w/o parole. Stupid people endangering children and their own lives don't deserve freedom.


KenTheAlbino t1_is9rggf wrote

If you are convicted of shooting someone in Florida- the mandatory minimum is 25 years. And Florida doesn’t have parole.

BUT- because of the way Florida’s self defense statutes are written- there is a very good chance one or even both of them will be acquitted.


Logistocrate t1_is9w8fw wrote

First shooter may have fucked himself though, arrest affidavit states he "was just trying to get out of the situation" and thought he had shot a tire, or the rear of the other vehicle after a water bottle was thrown at him. Those aren't the actions/statements of someone in immediate fear for their life.

Second driver has a better chance even though he returned fire at a vehicle that was fleeing the scene. Im hoping that since two kids were shot a jury will find these fucks guilty, but sadly, given what l said to open, with it being Florida you are probably correct and they could both skate to do this shit again some day.


KenTheAlbino t1_is9wqyx wrote

Here is the wild thing- driver one doesn’t need to be in fear for his life in this situation; it is justifiable in Florida to use deadly force against someone who is committing a forcible felony against you. By the letter of the law- throwing an object from a moving vehicle could- and most likely would be considered a forcible felony.


Logistocrate t1_is9x5x5 wrote

Holy shit...I had heard it was somewhat loose down there, but that's just fucking nuts! I wonder how many incidents like this don't make the news because no kids got hit? Not that I had any intention of visiting Florida, but now l know to avoid at all costs.


KenTheAlbino t1_is9xn9k wrote

I practice criminal defense in a medium sized central Florida county. This is sadly not out of the ordinary nor shocking to me.


DarkWasp14 t1_isa3b33 wrote

I would never feel safe living in a country where you can be justifiably murdered for throwing a water bottle. That’s outrageous.


KenTheAlbino t1_isa4nef wrote

It is outrageous but I understand why the law is written the way it is in a vacuum; when thrown from a moving vehicle- anything rigid could potentially cause serious injury or death. You get smoked by a full water bottle in the head from a car doing 60 mph? You most likely are going to be severely injured. It when applied to this case it does seem absurd- but that is how the law around “throwing a deadly missile” is written.


Logistocrate t1_is9y4lc wrote

Damn dude... yeah, you'd definitely be a SME in that area, if you think odds are they skate, then l'm entirely inclined to accept that.

Stay safe man. And thanks for doing what you do.


Darkalice1 t1_isbz7xx wrote

It looks like the act of throwing the water bottle could be charged as a second-degree felony in Florida. The term for this act is Throwing a deadly Missile. Florida statute (Sect. 790.19)

Edit oh I see lower down you already commented this. I just wanted to point it out like a fun fact cause I love that the law calls it a missile


KenTheAlbino t1_iscfto7 wrote

Yep you got the correct one! And then you couple that with the forcible felony definition found in 776.08 and you have your legal defense.


Jim_from_GA t1_isbe5bo wrote

So does "Drive Your Ground" work the same way as "Stand Your Ground?"


morphballganon t1_is9awoc wrote

"Your honor, I didn't shoot my kid. I shot that other guy's kid. If anything, that makes me a great parent! Because I was protecting my family!"


Cheap_Coffee t1_is9z3e3 wrote

They may lose custody of their kids but I bet they keep their guns.


255001434 t1_isa1zdi wrote

Not if they're convicted of a felony, which they most likely will be.


pegothejerk t1_is8viz3 wrote

They shot each other’s kids accidentally because of idiotic road rage. People are so fucking stupid.


Freexscsa t1_is8ybeg wrote

That wasn't an accident they pointed guns at other cars and shot at them.


MoonRakerWindow t1_is8z8ua wrote

Clearly, the legislature needs to respond by loosening gun laws. Obviously an armed society is a polite society. Cooler winds would have prevailed in this situation if the kids as well as the adults were armed.


thisismynewacct t1_isa9x2r wrote

These guys are the “law abiding gun owners” that 2A absolutists love to tout.

I mean they were, until they weren’t, which is too often the case.


fishythepete t1_isbgc7m wrote

>I mean they were, until they weren’t, which is too often the case.

This isn’t the case at all. The data here is a little stale, but the vast majority of firearm charges brought are unlawful possession charges - I.e. for the prosecuted individual possession itself is unlawful, so the charged individual is not (and likely never was) a lawful owner. Adding in possession of stolen firearms and illegal transfer of firearms is almost the entirety of firearm crime prosecutions.

Law abiding gun owners are overwhelmingly just that.


sjfiuauqadfj t1_is92hrx wrote

people who have a severe case of road rage should be banned from driving and be forced to take the bus. this instantly solves their road rage issues


chanepic t1_is8wwvy wrote

*Aggro Floridians are the epitome of stupid. Source: am in Florida


pzerr t1_isbwcnr wrote

Yes but what is the point of having a gun if you can't use it?


astanton1862 t1_is90678 wrote

Ok Florida Man you win. I was just joking with all the Texas Man stuff. You absolutely have the craziest dumbest criminals in America. Please don't shoot anymore kids.


morphballganon t1_is9b0pb wrote

> Please don't shoot anymore kids.

"Hold my beer" -- Florida man


Such_sights t1_isbom8u wrote

I’d personally give the dumbest Florida man road rage award to this guy, who rammed his BMW into a Prius, started shooting at the driver, and then died after the Prius driver returned fire in self defense.


R_V_Z t1_isbywb3 wrote

Was this the one where the guy had shot at somebody at that same intersection before?

After reading the article, yep.


Jeraimee t1_is8tj82 wrote

This is what happens when you put two of them near each other.


C0333 t1_is8yb18 wrote

Those mug shots really are the icing on the cake.


Opposite_of_a_Cynic t1_isaskaw wrote

They could be clones. One has less hair and the other has a beard but other than that they are complete exact copies


chimerakin t1_isawn4o wrote

It's a small county in Florida. Good odds that they have at least a great uncle-father-cousin in common.


TiredAF20 t1_isg0p3p wrote

They look exactly like what I imagined they would look like.


[deleted] t1_is8ugmd wrote

Ted Cruz voted against stronger gun laws. Even the compromise.

Keep that in mind when he comes up for reelection in 2025


_Silver_Engineer_ t1_is90zod wrote

Doesn't matter. 2A is more important than your own child's life. And these two dads just proved it.


Pancakes315 t1_isa6eh9 wrote

Abortion bans are more important than the fetuses or mothers life too. It’s never been about actual reason. It’s about control.


_Silver_Engineer_ t1_isanwoi wrote

Frank Wilhoit, "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."


[deleted] t1_is91afv wrote

2 men get pissed and open up on each other wounding the other's child.

How is that an argument for 2A?

Edit: If both were responsible gun owners this would not have happened.


lvlint67 t1_is9dk3x wrote

You don't understand. These were two "responsible" and "law abiding" gun owners according to 2a advocates.

It just so happens that they were both emotionally unstable and found themselves in a tense situation with easy and ready access to a fire arm...

But these are the innocent law abiding citizens that may have been inconvenienced by gun reform...


another_bug t1_is96tg5 wrote

I don't think they were saying that. I think they were pointing out that, from the Florida mans' point of view, the 2A is more important. And they're not wrong.


Young-and-Fermenting t1_is8z5ah wrote

Wrong state bot


FriesWithThat t1_is906k2 wrote

Yeah, one would only have had to go back to June to have an example of both Florida Senators (Scott/Rubio) voting against sensible gun legislation.

>The U.S. Senate late last night, by a 65-33 vote, approved a bipartisan gun measure — the most significant gun-related legislation in nearly 30 years — over the objections of Florida’s two Republican senators.


[deleted] t1_is8ztl1 wrote

Nah, it gets people's attention. Texas is a Republican stronghold.


AKMarine t1_isba4yu wrote

Trump only got 52% of the vote, and then he even baselessly accused TX of voter fraud.

Since then the TX Legislature passes a few laws to make it more difficult for minorities and liberals to vote.


Ynwe t1_is92omc wrote

Pick up trucks, guns, completely unnecessary violence, kids shot - As American as it gets..


lvlint67 t1_is9dvds wrote

I suppose we can wait for the investigation, but I'd bet money it was the dude in the Dodge thinking he owns the road that kicked things off.

Stupid of the Nissan driver to not de-escalate.. but we've all seen people in pickups do dumb ass shit.


TwoCockyforBukkake t1_is9ltht wrote

There comes a point where things have escalated so high that it doesn't matter who started it, not even a little bit, and it's silly to even mention it.


lvlint67 t1_isa6axe wrote

That's usually some time before brake checking and well before rolling down a window to shout.


Opposite_of_a_Cynic t1_isas7nq wrote

According to that idiot, shooting at the truck was his idea of de-escalation.

> “Mr. Allison said his goal of firing the shot was to ‘get out of the whole situation,’”


lvlint67 t1_isatkak wrote

That's the problem with having a gun handy in a confrontation. When you reach for it, either it's checkmate! and you kill/injure an unarmed person.. or you find yourself in the middle of a shoot out.

It's so easy to go, "well my gun makes me 3 feet taller and scary!"


Opposite_of_a_Cynic t1_isawdjx wrote

> It's so easy to go, "well my gun makes me 3 feet taller and scary!"

This is so on the bullseye. I know several people who carry daily and ever single one thinks when the bullets start flying they will be John Wick and everyone else the generic henchmen. Meanwhile actual evidence shows the most effective strategy when encountering someone with a gun is to run the fuck away. Pulling out your own gun dramatically lowers your chance of survival.


HeBoughtALot t1_is9by1z wrote

Are these well-regulated militias?


lvlint67 t1_is9e10y wrote

No they are "responsible" and "law abiding" citizens whose rights to own and carry a firearm shouldn't be infringed because of a little mental instability... /S


fsr1967 t1_is9wth0 wrote

Poorly regulated humans cannot should not be part of well regulated militias.


Burnbrook t1_is9djx1 wrote

Couldn't symbolize modern society much more aptly. The kids always pay the price.


Cheap_Coffee t1_is9ytf1 wrote

I'm not sure it symbolizes modern society, but it sure does symbolize Florida.... and the American gun cult.


Snowdeo720 t1_isa356r wrote

The way the title is written, I was expecting two douche bags in one car shot kids in another… but no.

It was two douche bags in separate cars, that ended up shooting each others kids!

What the flying fuck.


Odd_Bag_289 t1_isa02tz wrote

I'm just glad they had firearms and protected their rights by shooting each other's daughters. Those daughters were probably super dangerous and those guns saved many lives that day.


PuraVida3 t1_is8wnzv wrote

Florida, whatever you do, get the fuck out!


rittenalready t1_isa5fow wrote

It’s Florida so I imagine the case going like this “well y’all shot at each other which is perfectly legal under Flordia law- you both stood your ground and the castle doctrine applies to all moving vehicles or property. Now here’s where we are going to have to get serious- you both shot each others kids. Now I know boys will be boys so I’m willing to bet you both learned a valuable lesson. I see that under Florida law these two children are technically property until 18 so I will go ahead and say this cancels each other out because you both got one of your kids shot. Now I want you both to do 500 of gun range hours so next time your aim is better and you can protect your property with less children shot.”


TreyBouchet t1_isa4g79 wrote

A Dodge Ram was involved? Shocking…


bland_jalapeno t1_is95gx6 wrote

Thankfully, no one was shot except two stupid children. Those dumb asses should have been armed. How is a five year old not packin’ heat. That’s bad parenting. /s


TheDenseCumTwat t1_is93ot8 wrote

Road rage incidents are far too frequent nowadays. Idk FL handgun laws, but in Texas, where constitutional carrying has allowed anyone to carry without license or training its basically emboldened a lot of people who shouldn’t carry.

It’s almost every day though I see something in the news whether in Texas, or elsewhere about a shooting via road rage. I’ve experienced it myself, had my weapon ready as I dialed 911. I’ve got my CHL and regularly carry, so it was a moment I never wanted to experience. Thankfully I didn’t have to use it, but it’s scary. People need to calm tf down.


What_its_full_of t1_isanrv8 wrote

They both had kids in the car, and decided a rolling gunfight was the best plan.

After both kids get shot, they don’t seek help, but start a fist fight.

I hope both wives swiftly divorce them and allow limited supervised contact if any henceforth.

Shit for brains.


Mentalpatient87 t1_isb1u3k wrote

Just polite society things. Don't guns just make things so polite?


eremite00 t1_isc8eas wrote

Come to think of it, I haven't seen the, "an armed society is a polite society", assertion for a while, now.


Smarterthanthat t1_is9marn wrote

So let's flood society with more guns, right?


egospiers t1_isa4wq6 wrote

2 father of the year candidates right there. The title should have been “Florida Man tries to out Florida Florida Man”


TheNewGirl_ t1_isb815f wrote

Just American stuff

its their culture


COmarmot t1_isa1pjx wrote

Both have shot kids at this point and neither drives to a hospital but rather to continue to go at it, until police pull them over. And then they start to fight each other! r/getofftheboat


Zoshchenko t1_isbw5l3 wrote

Should definitely take their kids away and then lock them in the same jail cell. Whoever comes out alive goes on trial for attempted murder and sent to prison for many, many years.


TrexInaF14 t1_isciqlj wrote

Jesus fucking Christ- both of these dudes had their kids in the car and both thought it was a good idea to get into a gun fight instead of just slowing the fuck down - what the ever living fuck


earhere t1_is9ctxe wrote

Americans dont deserve guns


BigBlackHungGuy t1_isa6uw2 wrote

So Florida is back to being Florida again eh?


bluehealer8 t1_isaei72 wrote

An ArMeD SoCiEtY iS a PoLiTe SoCiEty HURK HURK


justforthearticles20 t1_isbv688 wrote

Exactly what you would expect from Florida Man and Florida Man.


JBupp t1_is9rc66 wrote

>“What is scarier than one crazy driver with a gun,” Leeper said while holding up the booking photos of the two men, “Two crazy drivers with a gun. There could have been two dead kids because of two stupid grown men,” he added.

So man one attempts to deescalate the situation by firing a gun at man two ...


fsr1967 t1_is9x0i4 wrote

If only the kids themselves had had guns, they could have defended themselves from their own parents' criminal idiocy /s


Vector75 t1_isa0rwg wrote

I just… I don’t understand. I can’t even imagine what would be going through your head to escalate to gunfire like this with your own kids in the car.


EvolvedCactus19 t1_isa5men wrote

And all either of you had to do was take and exit to get away from that aggression then get back on US 1. I live in Jacksonville and there are PLENTY of side roads, detours and exits that lead right back to the highway. This was really fuckin stupid.


GrimmRadiance t1_isa73op wrote

Road rage is nonsense and you’re a piece of shit if you do it, allow it, encourage it. I will actively report any instance of this to the police if I see it. Fuck anyone who participates in it.


Julen_23 t1_isas0ds wrote

FL doing FL things AGAIN . . .


The_Legend_of_Xeno t1_isb1sk2 wrote

I don't even honk at someone when my kids are in the car with me. It's just not worth it. If I have my kids with me and encounter an idiot on the road, I normally just slow down to get them as far away from us as possible.


dillsimmons t1_isb8vtq wrote

Should you really be allowed out on bail for an attempted murder charge? I would argue public safety is at risk..


Street-Badger t1_is9s7u2 wrote

Just give these guys their guns back and let them sort it out in a walk-in freezer.


JhymnMusic t1_isah7jl wrote

Responsible gun owners.


dissolutewastrel t1_isak8in wrote

A lot of people talk shit about USAmerica but you don't get this kind of excitement in Indonesia


bloodflart t1_isay2ae wrote

fuck are we fucking doing in this fucking country


pacwess t1_isb2h9x wrote

>Both vehicles were speeding and brake-checking each other, he added.

Sounds like cause and effect. Morons!

>Both men have paid bail and been released from jail, the sheriff’s office said.



campbrs t1_isb7vi8 wrote

How does stand your ground come into play here? Not support either shooter, just curious.


AKMarine t1_isb9ss0 wrote

Which one was the good guy with a gun? 🤦‍♂️


ct-18 t1_isbb2hi wrote

That's why I do not make eye contact with anyone on the road now a days. This country has gone to hell. More good guys with guns injuring innocent people. How f ed in the head do you have to be to play road rage games with children in the cars. Those poor kids have very little chance of growing up in a decent environment.


sonoma4life t1_isbbkko wrote

same reason i dread expanding carry in Los Angeles. road rage shootings would be common.


here-to-argue t1_iskoobb wrote

If the children also had guns, none of this would have ever happened.


Neither-Idea-9286 t1_isaprrh wrote

So much for “good guys with guns” . This kind of violence happens WAY more often than gun owners saving the day!


dare978devil t1_isaagyb wrote

More guns! The only solution is more guns!!


yofanity t1_is9yaf5 wrote

I honestly don’t feel like the guy that shot back should be charged, going from brake checking or throwing a water bottle to shooting into someone else’s car warrants a response i feel


Cheap_Coffee t1_is9yo4f wrote

Please tell me you're joking.


yofanity t1_is9zxsv wrote

I’m open to having my mind changed, this is based off of what I’m seeing right now


DeepRoot t1_isadzdb wrote

A water bottle should get an attempted murder response?!? "That's not how it works... that's not how anything works."


yofanity t1_isagxwy wrote

I’m literally talking about the other guy lmao did u even read my comment


DeepRoot t1_isahkaf wrote

I read your comment. Neither person was correct in the scenario, there was no proper response to anything.


yofanity t1_isahto0 wrote

I agree with that, but throwing a water bottle shouldn’t result in you getting shot at. And when you get shot at, I don’t think you should go to prison for defending your own life.


DeepRoot t1_isani5v wrote

Yes, that is true; however, there is a thing called de-escalation and neither person attempted to do that with their own children in the car at the time. It's one thing to be a hot head by yourself, but these hot heads got their own daughters shot. He threw a water bottle, escalating the situation like a chair in a riot, so responding by shooting back after he was the offender does not make him right.