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Intrepid_Method_ t1_iya3yti wrote

Russians seeking asylum in the US will probably be subjected to extra scrutiny. Espionage is a concern. Would a European or Asian nation be friendly for Russians?

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Thoughtful_Mouse t1_iya5li4 wrote

Word.

Like, we don't need to be dicks about it, but the negation of being a dick doesn't mean being blindly trusting.

Two intellectually inclined fighting age Russians showing up? Yea, those might be spies, ya'll. As politely and empathetically as possible those folks need to be detained and scrutinized.

Sorry-not-sorry.

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[deleted] t1_iyap87n wrote

[deleted]

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Thoughtful_Mouse t1_iyatisl wrote

In the same way that a plumber with your skill set might not be able to do more than work a plunger, a spy with your skill set might not be able to do more than move into government assisted housing and work a shit job.

You have to imagine not what you would do given that situation, but what a spy would do.

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MeatsimPD t1_iyawp0u wrote

> Two intellectually inclined fighting age Russians showing up? Yea, those might be spies, ya'll

Why? Because they are intelligent and of "fighting age" which I assume means like 18 to 30? That really doesn't represent what actual Russian spies have looked like. I mean it covers some but not most

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegals_Program

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Butina

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Abel

Most spies are actually Americans who are turned for one reason or another, not actual Russians. The ones who are actually from Russia are more educated and worldly than your average person from Russia. That's true for any country's spies since of course spying is difficult and you have to be educated and worldly to forge those human relations necessary to do it and understand the operation you are part of.

The last person you'd want to invest resources into and trust to carry out an illegal espionage operation is a poorly educated refugee who barely speaks English.

And they are all scrutinized, but honestly if you're worried about Russian influence it's been clear as day in their information operations and funneling of money to select politicians. Refugees are not a threat by any means

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Thoughtful_Mouse t1_iyb1hys wrote

These refugees are not poorly educated. You didn't read the article.

History is replete with examples of spies leaking through borders as refugees or disguised as travelers from nearby countries. This is a ploy so old and so ubiquitous throughout history it almost defies reasonable discussion.

It's an appealing strategy exactly because of the low resource investment required.

You think a country that will spend millions on counter-intelligence and bribes won't spend two bodies on a cheap shot like this?

It is absolutely worth scrutinizing people from hostile nations attempting to immigrate. Don't be a twit.

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MeatsimPD t1_iybb3fv wrote

> History is replete with examples of spies leaking through borders as refugees or disguised as travelers from nearby countries. This is a ploy so old and so ubiquitous throughout history it almost defies reasonable discussion.

It certainly defied your ability to provide an example

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Thoughtful_Mouse t1_iybdmal wrote

I mean, there are examples in Herodotus' account of the Greco-Persian war...

... so since the beginning of recorded western history.

This is like asking me to cite examples of why 2 and 2 are 4. You're just being petty and argumentative, and I'm done here.

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echaa t1_iybevql wrote

>Most spies are actually Americans who are turned for one reason or another, not actual Russians.

I don't think you know what a spy is...

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amateur_mistake t1_iya7cip wrote

A bunch of Asian countries have accepted a lot of russian refugees. Kazakhstan, for examples, has received tens of thousands of fleeing russians. It's definitely causing problems for them though.

As forgedbygeeks pointed out, we need to work on how we receive refugees in general. And russians should definitely be getting extra scrutiny right now.

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sjfiuauqadfj t1_iyb9dcl wrote

ehhh idk about extra scrutiny. actual russian spies have infiltrated us for a long time and they dont need to pretend to be a refugee to do so. plus, given how incompetent the russian military is, maybe we should lower our expectations of what theyre capable of

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seamustheseagull t1_iyccysb wrote

I mean there's a legend over 3,000 years old about this very thing - hostile forces breaching the border on the pretence of good will. It's such a basic and fundamental security concept that we use the phrase "trojan horse" to refer to various scenarios.

I appreciate that 99% of refugees are genuinely fleeing danger, but the danger posed to some countries by that 1% is quite dramatic.

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Leftleaningdadbod t1_iybkduq wrote

Of course. Sensible action. Kazakhstan isn’t so cautious. The US shouldn’t be compared to an ex-Soviet state.

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SameRandomUsername t1_iyer9m1 wrote

If they can't prove that they are being persecuted then they are not "activists", Twitter posts saying "Russia sucks" doesn't count as activism.

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quietguy_6565 t1_iyf7cwa wrote

Why don't they flee to Belorussia, Iran, china,or north Korea. Why flee to the west /s

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StifleStrife t1_iybu7n2 wrote

Idk what a Russian can do if they are monitored and not allowed to join the armed forces and shit. They have like the most text book Asylum case. Its better to grant it.

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thought_first t1_iya31z4 wrote

There is a process for Ukrainian refugees coming in the US.

In the past we have allowed in refugees during regime changes in allied nations but I don't recall a time where the US let in citizens from the aggressor nation.

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Relevant_Departure40 t1_iya7986 wrote

>I don't recall a time where the US let in citizens from the aggressor nation.

I looked it up bc I was bored and what else are you gonna do on a Tuesday night, and we actually did take in some amount of German refugees during WW2 with the caveat that they must have already escaped Nazi territory, so not directly from Germany, but probably the closest you'll find

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rosesandpiglets t1_iyag7ga wrote

But somehow turned away a boatload of Jewish folks…

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Usman5432 t1_iyarvdx wrote

Antisemitism was all the rage even in the US and the allied nations they didnt care about the rumors they were hearing regarding the genocide and even if they had proof of it they'd have minded their own business [like they did with Stalin's genocide], heck for a time theyre were talks of allying with Hitler against the communists but then he allied with them and invaded Poland and that plan died

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Relevant_Departure40 t1_iybpq4f wrote

Admittedly a large population of the German refugees were Jewish, and iirc, prior to the Allies liberating Auschwitz, most of America didn't know about the death camps. Hitler probably (correctly) assumed that if he openly said he was committing genocide, it would have gone much worse for him. We didn't really know what he was doing until it was far too late

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subtlecastle t1_iyabs3d wrote

We also brought in a ton of high ranking nazi scientists after the war who helped us with our space/nuclear program. Seems like these folks would be more culpable than some fleeing Russian civilians, no?

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120z8t t1_iyaej1h wrote

Hell a bunch of Nazi POWs that were held in the US and Canada during the war got deported back to Germany after the war and turned right around and came back to the US and Canada.

Granted these were low level soldiers who claim not to be part of the NAZI party.

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nobody_smart t1_iyaoi5p wrote

Including my Great-Uncle Carl.

Who was actually a second cousin of my great grandmother. At the end of the war, he was shipped from POW camp to Arkansas to work on the family's farms. He married a local girl, got his citizenship and never went back to Germany.

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PPQue6 t1_iyalc1d wrote

Yeah just walk into NASA sometime and yell "Heil Hitler!" WOOP! They all jump straight up!

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No_Blueberry1122 t1_iyb0yqj wrote

And afterwards with the caveat that they build rockets alongside Werner Von Braun, who, I assume didn't develop the V2 while simultaneously escaping Nazi territory...

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cbeiser t1_iyblmtj wrote

That's my grandpa! He went to Cuba and then USA.

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5kyl3r t1_iyc50pf wrote

they require a sponsor here in the states (for ukrainian refugees)

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Lily_Loud_Cat t1_iya1n74 wrote

This article contradicts all of the political attacks ads that I see while watching television.

Those ads claim that "Biden's open border policy" lets everyone in, but this article is proof that those ads are incorrect.

Are those right-wing propaganda ads are straight-up lying to everyone that views the ad?!

I am shocked that the party with the primordial instinct to lie and deceive is lying and deceiving!

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1701anonymous1701 t1_iyal7yh wrote

When they lie about what the opposition is doing, it really is an admission of guilt.

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aew360 t1_iycwste wrote

Simultaneously complaining about labor shortages and supply chain issues while bitching about the horrendous open borders, lmao. What’s the Republican plan through all this? To just complain? Seems that way. At least we’ll find out about Hunter’s laptop!

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CrocTheTerrible t1_iya52zz wrote

People fleeing a terrorist country are surprised they are being vetted. We don't have open boarders for Russians.. we never did.

Fuck off with this whine rag

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TremblingWilbury t1_iybtcbv wrote

We don’t have open borders for anyone. Don’t buy the lie.

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iamkurru t1_iyc1z15 wrote

People don't seem to realize just how difficult it is to come to America. 95% of American's wouldn't have any path to immigrate to US if they were non-American.

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lynx_and_nutmeg t1_iyc9tw4 wrote

Where people fleeing from Afghanistan when Taliban took over also treated like terrorists? Or people trying to flee Iran, or North Korea?

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CrocTheTerrible t1_iycqc5f wrote

No and neither are the Russians but we still vet them stupid just like we vet Russians.

If you're too slow to understand that that's on you.

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forgedbygeeks t1_iya2pov wrote

So, for starters, this is no different that what is happening to anyone who gets caught crossing the border illegally, but suddenly its an issue because the people fleeing are from Russia?

We should definitely have a discussion about detention conditions and treatment of refugees, but it is kind of sickening that it takes a white couple from Russia to get a multi-page sob story about this when thousands of couples experience this exact circumstance every month and are instead treated as terrorists and invaders by the media.

Going further, Russia has a vested interest in getting more spies into the US right now. Just as an opening argument, I would fully expect anyone from Russia crossing and seeking asylum to be heavily scrutinized and detained initially while their stories and background are thoroughly investigated and validated.

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phoenixgsu t1_iya5bqe wrote

Showing up at the border and applying for asylum and illegally crossing and getting caught are two different things. Unfortunately these two get treated the same. Everyone applying for asylum should be afforded a chance to make their case and have reasonable accommodations or sponsorship.

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vlsdo t1_iyaig4e wrote

If showing up at the border and applying for asylum gets you in the same cell and just as deported as getting caught crossing illegally, might as well cross illegally, at least you have a chance of not getting caught. You can't except people to subject themselves to a broken process without any incentive to do so, especially desperate people like refugees.

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[deleted] t1_iybjoof wrote

[removed]

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vlsdo t1_iybpql8 wrote

Immigration is broken? No worries, breaking the Geneva convention will solve it!

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Electrical_Tip352 t1_iydpc2s wrote

What the actual fuck? Like we’re north and South Korea? Or like about to leave a war zone in one of the shitholes we fought in (we made most of them shitholes btw)?

You want to lay mines across our border? To get all those evil unaccompanied minors and moms? Sometimes I can’t believe I fought for your right to say and think this shit. I’m very disappointed in america recently and this is why.

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Jobbyblow555 t1_iya5z59 wrote

This one always drives me nuts because I can't think of anyone who would make a worse spy than a refugee. One you have to go to the government and register as a refugee, which makes your chances of getting any valuable information low already. Two these people often have very few resources or connections in the country they are settling in so their ability to get a job at the state department or dow chemicals to feed useful info back to their government is hampered. And finally it's just easiest to send people who have business or diplomatic connections, it's much easier to get info on a nuclear reactor when your company can put in a bid to sell the gaskets for it.

Truthfully the insane amount of vetting and investigating of refugees is a holdover of the post 9-11 security state in which anyone could be a terrorist and we needed security theater to mollify the dumbest and most coddled people on the planet that they weren't gonna be blown up on their way to the 7-11.

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BMCarbaugh t1_iyb0bf7 wrote

The Russian government doesn't need to send false asylum applicants to get spies into the US. What the fuck kinda spying is an asylum applicant gonna do, anyway? Report on the color of the wallpaper at the local ICE office?

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forgedbygeeks t1_iyb1gfp wrote

You do know the goal is eventually to be allowed in the US and allowed to participate in society right?

Also, real life isn't a Hollywood movie. It's not usually just 1 spy that gets stuff done. They pass materials through layers to try and obscure who actually stole something before delivery to the government they are spying for. Even a fake asylum seeker could play a road in helping a government.

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Affectionate_Roof361 t1_iyafae6 wrote

Immigrating to U.S. is not a right it's a privelage . I fail to understand how this is a issue .

How many countries they went through to reach Mexico ? It's no different from immigrants from Africa trying to teach U.K. or Germany .

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jschubart t1_iyalehj wrote

How many countries they went through has zero bearing on their eligibility to enter. Same as anyone else trying to enter the US.

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BadMedAdvice t1_iyanodi wrote

Eh... You're supposed to claim asylum in the first safe country you arrive in.

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Rikey_Doodle t1_iybbhhz wrote

>Same as anyone else trying to enter the US.

Right which is... Exactly what's happening? The US doesn't have an open border with Russia, never did. Welcome to the asylum process.

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jschubart t1_iybroc9 wrote

The commenter implied that how many countries they went through first should have a bearing on whether they should be granted asylum. Many people are under the impression that if an asylum seeker travels through another safe country first, their asylum will be rejected. Looking at their comment history, they appear to be from the EU where that is the case but it is not in the US. My comment was to correct that thought. You are correct that they are going through the standard process which is no different than other asylum seekers.

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Nigredo78 t1_iyb7uq3 wrote

NY times spent the last 21 years... sleeping?...

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introvert-i-1957 t1_iyan67y wrote

I remember people defecting from the USSR when I was a kid. I do not remember them being treated like crap. But it served our government to look like a benefactor at that time. Seeking asylum is different than being illegal. Average person in the US seems to be ignorant of this fact. Unless you are Native American or descendant of slaves, your ancestors went through the process. It was more open to immigrants at one time. But it is not illegal to seek asylum. So there's no reason to treat asylum seekers like criminals. Certainly there is a vetting procedure. But it should not be treated as a criminal process.

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iamkurru t1_iyc29xe wrote

It was massively more open to immigrants before. I don't think people know how difficult it is now.

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Azozel t1_iyap11x wrote

I imagine Detention in the U.S. isnt as bad as life in Russia right now.

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Von_Quixote t1_iydyr5w wrote

“Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” - oh, wait - your Russian‽

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Gemini-Engine t1_iybco4z wrote

“Trust, but verify”

-someone super cool, probably

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iamkurru t1_iyc2e0b wrote

>Trust, but verify

According to wikipedia its a Russian proverb, used by Ronald Reagan during the nuclear disarmament

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Nwccntwhds t1_iycbcxj wrote

Also "trust" is a bit of a too strong of a word, a closer meaning would be something like "be confident in, but check anyway".

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Atticus_Vague t1_iycl4v9 wrote

It is entirely reasonable to properly and thoroughly vet these asylum seekers. I see nothing wrong with this. Russia is an enemy to the United States, refugees from our enemies should be viewed with deep suspicion.

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Raptor22c t1_iydsrbt wrote

I mean, at least they’re probably far better off in US detention centers than being thrown into a Russian prison for opposing the regime. Far less likely to “accidentally” fall out a window to their death, or be sent to a concentration camp, or be subjected to brutal torture.

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jejunebanali t1_iybd1il wrote

They should flee to the Philippines instead

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NotReallyInvested t1_iybek4l wrote

They wouldn’t get detention if they weren’t tardy!

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grumpy_hedgehog t1_iyc91pg wrote

Sooo… what example does this set, exactly? Treating these people like criminals and spies plays directly into Putin’s propaganda that “The West” is broadly hostile to Russians as a people rather than merely to his regime. If their asylum claims are denied, they will simply be shipped home and then what? The guy will get drafted and given the most meat-grinder assignment and his wife will live on as a disillusioned cautionary tale. Repeat times a hundred thousand.

In fact, this has been the standard party line in pro-Kremlin Russian social media channels on Twitter and Telegram since this exodus began. None of them seem to lose any sleep over the big Western news stories of all the thousands of Russian citizens fleeing mobilization, because “eh, the cowards will come crawling back soon enough”.

We’re about to prove them right.

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abaninjanal t1_iyc9h1l wrote

Thanks.. It was a long haul.. But thx.. Give my just dues

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Comprehensive-Ad3963 t1_iydeft0 wrote

IANAL, but This is in line with asylum law.

In order to claim asylum, you're supposed to go to the nearest country that will accept you. You can't just go to whatever country you want.

So this couple would probably have had better luck in Poland.

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GranSjon t1_iybyd4i wrote

Am i being naive? These Russians face jail, not death. These are mostly comprised of Russians who fled—not because they were anti-war—but because they were to be drafted. I understand this story focuses on a few sad stories, but over an estimated 300k fled Russia after mobilization. Those Russians are not welcome, do not deserve asylum, and are a large cause of the needed extra scrutiny.

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Bison256 t1_iycrj3y wrote

New boss same as the old boss.

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abaninjanal t1_iybtja3 wrote

Of course.. If u want spies in your country.. Just let them in.. If not.. U detain all fleeing being the aggressor.. It's common sense.. Thats how u stop cancer..

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TehOuchies t1_iyc7lb3 wrote

Some one give this guy a Nobel prize! He just cured cancer!

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liegesmash t1_iyb2qy7 wrote

So not the home of the free…

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maralagosinkhole t1_iyda0pd wrote

First of all, it's land of the free.

Second of all, that's a lyric to a song, not a policy or law.

And finally, one person's freedom ends where the next person's begins. Should we just let Russian spies, terrorists and propagandists step into the country without any kind of vetting?

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Hsensei t1_iyb88lr wrote

Internment camps were made legal by scouts

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MasterpieceLive9604 t1_iyaak92 wrote

If they're innocent the activists will be fine. Until then they need to vet them. There should be a record of their activism and due diligence. It's wartime.

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BMCarbaugh t1_iyazw5d wrote

Completely barbaric. Not to mention utterly stupid.

We should be welcoming these people. We should be advertising more of them to come. We should be taking in so many of them that it makes Putin foam at the mouth with rage. Every anti-war asylum case from Russia robs money from his war machine and adds a new taxpayer to the US.

Instead we shoot ourselves in the foot because we built a big racism machine for keeping out Mexicans and don't know how to turn it off.

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AuryxTheDutchman t1_iycaj8y wrote

I’m all for reforming our immigration system, but in this case it makes zero sense to just welcome them with open arms. While the vast majority of these refugees are likely exactly what they portray themselves to be (refugees fleeing the Putin regime) we can’t discount the reality that there may well be spies among them. An intense vetting process and increased scrutiny are appropriate.

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newtoreddir t1_iyafm1n wrote

Stay and fix your country.

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rfxap t1_iyanvc5 wrote

With that mentality, virtually no one would have ever immigrated to the US

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Madcap_Miguel t1_iyd1kj7 wrote

Yeah but a lot Ukrainians would still be alive. No one needs a Russian antiwar activist in the US.

Also i don't remember the Irish invading their neighbors on coffin ships.

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rfxap t1_iyekjy6 wrote

> Yeah but a lot Ukrainians would still be alive.

Honestly I don't know what even the most dedicated anti-war Russians can do to turn the tide on the war at this point.

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Madcap_Miguel t1_iyelrvi wrote

You got us help us doc we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas

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Frostiron_7 t1_iya6q3m wrote

The US is on the cusp of being an openly illiberal democracy. A fascist state. An "Empire", as the historians will lovingly call it. There's no freedom to be found here. At least not now.

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ScientistNo906 t1_iya9062 wrote

You did say "here" so I have to assume that you reside in the United States. Many of us who also live here would disagree with the idea that there's no freedom to be found here.

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MostlyPseudonymous t1_iyahaqh wrote

No, he used that phrasing because it's recommended on line 3 of the Russian Troll Handbook.

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Frostiron_7 t1_iya9f3a wrote

So what? It's not a popularity contest, and I'm tired of pretending it is.

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