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evert198201 t1_iv0vxoj wrote

Yeh and meanwhile blaming 'the west' for CO2 emissions... Legit question, does India has any climate goals ?

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Friendofthegarden t1_iv0ztnb wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,181)

>Yeh and meanwhile blaming 'the west' for CO2 emissions

Only Modi/his ilk and he's a nutball. He's India's equivalent of Trump. Hates democracy, runs on a cult of personality, blames everything on everyone else.

>Legit question, does India has any climate goals ?

Actually... yes. The National Actio Plan for Climate Change. But with people like Modi in charge, they're likely not to give a fuck.

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Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_iv10sec wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,181)

India is industrializing. This is kind of the natural progression of industrialization. Historically it takes a generation or two of a population living through the shit before they simultaneously realize how bad it is AND have the resources and institutional knowledge to implement and manage higher levels of tech to mitigate It

Look at the US. It took us accidentally lighting the Cuyahoga River on fire before voters all agreed “okay I guess we need some kind of environmental agency” and then it took another twenty years before we started to get sulfur emissions and smog under control

Personally, I expect the wealthy developed world to do a lot more legwork cleaning things up, especially because our wealth largely comes from polluting the hardest the last century(and we are still polluting at higher per capita rates). If that means going into India and building them cleaner factories ourselves, that’s a better investment than just waiting for war to break out as ecosystems collapse. Unfortunately it seems most our species prefer the latter

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evert198201 t1_iv13zfg wrote

Replying to Agent_Angelo_Pappas (#442,449)

Yes I agree, I actually believe that countries that thrived on the backs of other countries should participate in their climate change investments, as climate is effecting us all and these countries have the resources to help out others...

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BobbTheBuilderr t1_iv1504g wrote

Maybe they should try doing anything to curb their emissions? I’d start there. 😂

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S_K_Y t1_iv17q24 wrote

Replying to chef-nom-nom (#442,392)

I didn't know they existed but it makes sense.

If we can make sonic guns that use sound to injure or incapacitate someone then anti-smog guns are definitely on the table.

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lilaprilshowers t1_iv1d76h wrote

Replying to Friendofthegarden (#442,403)

Funny enough, if he'd died/retired before 2016, he'd probably be remembered as one of India's greatest leaders. Country saw a lot of development under his regin, but lately he's thrown out India's founding fathers' vision of a pan-religious, pan-racial society in favor of a Hindu ethno-state.

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Agent_Angelo_Pappas t1_iv1dxgb wrote

Replying to WexfordHo (#442,862)

Hence my last sentence. I expect humanity to survive global warming, but I’m expecting levels of death and suffering not experienced for centuries. Think Bubonic Plague or Manifest Destiny levels of collapse where entire continents are heavily depopulated. For an allegedly intelligent species we’re collectively pretty dumb

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Tdavis13245 t1_iv1epzy wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,181)

I'd slow down on whatever thought process you're having. The West is only too happy to export their pollution and industry to countries like this to deflection blame. Look at how many products the west buys from these places, and how much literal trash they ship to just dump it legally

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kdonirb t1_iv1oohs wrote

read earlier that India is gaining ground in the production of cheap goods - wondered then at what cost, seems here’s an example

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BrownMan65 t1_iv1seqi wrote

Replying to BigE1263 (#442,964)

They have 1.3 billion people in a country half the size of America. It's not really that easy to curb emissions especially when they're still working on developing the country. Non-renewable energy sources simply cost less than other renewable sources would and so it's not really hard to see why their situation is the way it is.

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BrownMan65 t1_iv1t8y7 wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,181)

>Yeh and meanwhile blaming 'the west' for CO2 emissions

The US alone makes up for 25% of the CO2 emissions over the last century. In comparison, China with a population of 1.4 billion people makes up 11%. India with a population of 1.3 billion is less than that. Europe as a whole has a smaller population than both China and India and makes up 20% of CO2 emissions.

On top of this, during that century while the US and Europe were polluting our atmosphere, they were also able to develop to the point that they are at today. China and India did not have that luxury and are now playing catch up. Additionally, they're doing it with a lower per capita emission rate than the US even today.

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ChintanP04 t1_iv1wtrb wrote

Replying to BobbTheBuilderr (#442,696)

They did implement an "Even-Odd" system where either Even or Odd numbered cars are allowed to drive on any given day. Also, banned firecrackers (which weren't even that big a contributor to their pollution problem but whatever).

But a population the size of Canada in a place only twice the size of NYC is gonna need way more than that to keep the emissions in control.

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WexfordHo t1_iv1x0zy wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#444,138)

It’s almost as though low contributions from 1.4 billion people adds up! Especially when those contributions are steadily rising, with no end in sight, as though people scrabble for a lifestyle that more closely resembles a Western one, in terms of consumption.

And guess what, yelling, “It’s per capita” at the sky as it falls? Changes nothing.

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The_Yarichin_Bitch t1_iv1xksu wrote

Replying to BrownMan65 (#443,906)

Same issue farming has- they CAN change animal welfare and crop collection/creation, but they do not have the money in a business that desperately needs it, which many have had in the family forever. I know plenty of farmers now who are interested in animal welfare with no way to implement it.

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WexfordHo t1_iv1zw05 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#444,270)

Well good news, I have a source.

China — 11680.42 United States — 4535.30 India — 2411.73

Top three all time.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/carbon-footprint-by-country

Now lets look at the trend lines.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC

Oh look, India’s trend line is straight up, but Europe and North America’s is plummeting. People need to stop playing bullshit nationalist games with this, or fudging the overall numbers.

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crwcomposer t1_iv204f0 wrote

Replying to BobbTheBuilderr (#442,696)

According to the article most of it comes from farmers burning leftover material after harvest, and their supreme court has already outlawed the practice with little effect so far. Because the farm fires are in a different state, it's a finger pointing situation.

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Holiday_Newspaper_29 t1_iv2dh22 wrote

Replying to BrownMan65 (#444,745)

Not completely stupid or pointlesst all.

In the past the Indian government has made attempts to limit population growth through family planning strategies as it was recognised as a 'danger' to the country's development.

However, 'outrage' from the international community and religious groups have consistently derailed it. Over population is a huge problem for India and has caused an enormous amount of suffering - as it does in almost every developing country.

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Valyrian_Kobolds t1_iv2fy8n wrote

Replying to TyperMcTyperson (#444,949)

It's a worthless statement unless you're implying that someone should murder a substantial number of people.

All this "WeLl WhY DOn'T thEy tAke rEspOnsIBilIty" is so fucking stupid because it's literally worthless sentiment that does nothing to change reality. You want them topull a genie out of their ass or what?

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BrownMan65 t1_iv2jfdi wrote

Replying to Holiday_Newspaper_29 (#445,013)

Right but it's not useful in this conversation. Obviously overpopulation is a problem, but that's only relevant if you're talking about killing half of their population right now. Otherwise the situation is what it is and it the populations energy needs still have to be addressed. On top of that though, the US and Europe emits more CO2 per capita than India.

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Valyrian_Kobolds t1_iv2ju34 wrote

Replying to TyperMcTyperson (#445,204)

Bud, as a nation they only managed to nationally electrify the place like 2 years ago. Education and utilities are still not a guarantee. It's really easy to sit from an ivory tower and look at a nation in the process of industrializing and passing judgement, but it really just shows how vapid your analysis is.

−4

mndrar t1_iv2ojsa wrote

Replying to BobbTheBuilderr (#442,696)

its not their emissions. All states north of Delhi are agriculture states. And they burn the fields (its called something). This time of year the wind patters makes such that all the wind channels into Delhi making it a gas chamber.
They have tried stopiig them from burning fields but its not working.

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Zekrom16 t1_iv2qqg1 wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#445,608)

Well Industrialization means moving away from agriculture to manufacturing the above comment was hinting it's manufacturing to blame thus the Industrialization. Agriculture is a industry but Industrialization refers to switch from agri to manufacturing so your comment is not well thought out.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/industrialization.asp

"Industrialization is a transformation away from an agricultural- or resource-based economy, toward an economy based on mechanized manufacturing."

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BrownMan65 t1_iv2vivw wrote

Replying to [deleted] (#445,857)

4.5 billion metric tons from the US in 2020

2.4 billion metric tons from India in 2020

2.7 billion metric tons from the EU in 2020

10.7 billion metric tons from China in 2020

China is the outlier here as they are also the manufacturing center of the world. Those numbers for the US and Europe would be drastically different if all their manufacturing hadn't been offshored to other countries. So tell me again which countries are being accommodated for because from where I'm standing, it's not India or even China all things considered.

>If a country manages it's population in a reasonable way they deserve a higher standard of living

Edit: Never mind just realized you're one of those insidious racists who think that everyone should be punished if they don't act exactly according to the way the white part of the world wants them to act. You think that the whites did everything the right way and that should be emulated even though their way of doing it literally destroyed the world in the process. Now that countries are trying to catch up you're trying to take some bull shit moral high ground without even acknowledging all the destruction the west has caused to get to where it is today.

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asdaaaaaaaa t1_iv2zsvr wrote

Replying to chef-nom-nom (#442,392)

So they just move all the particulates to their water sources? "Regular" dust isn't the worst thing (assuming it's just dirt-dust), but some materials like brake dust probably isn't too great. Then considering that water will also carry anything on the ground like tire particulates and stuff. I get it's a trade off, better to breath, but wish there was a better way.

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Revolutionary_Eye887 t1_iv313jb wrote

It doesn’t matter what is posted, it’s always Americas fault. Whatever.

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peanut__buttah t1_iv37o1a wrote

Replying to ChintanP04 (#444,144)

I visited India in 2015. I’ve been on public transit in a lot of major US cities, but walking down into Delhi’s subway platforms reminded me of the inside of an ant hill. Truly just swarms of people, it was unnerving

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peanut__buttah t1_iv388yg wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,629)

In theory, absolutely. But looking even just at the US, we can’t even get our leaders on board to aid environmentalism in our own country, let alone to “a bunch of brown people overseas” (you can hear the Fox News headline already).

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gardenpartytime t1_iv38jf2 wrote

What the earth really needs is for human beings to stop having so many children.

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CritaCorn t1_iv3c9x0 wrote

All that smog made by all that cheap Russian fuel you bought….Buddha would call that “KARMA”!!!!!

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GoodDave t1_iv48mno wrote

That's what a lack of regulation will get you.......

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zumbadumbadumdum t1_iv4vc4a wrote

Replying to Friendofthegarden (#442,403)

Calling Modi India's equivalent of Trump is pretty stupid.. Trump comes nowhere close to Modi's popularity. Both are right wing but both come from very different backgrounds and both have very different government policies. Trump was an aberration in US politics. Modi has defined 2 decades(2014-2029) for india.

Modi is more in line with India's Shinzo Abe(except for the nepotism). Both have links with ideological right wing groups. Both stabilised the previous coalition kinda governments. And both focus on infra, international relations, social safety nets etc.

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zumbadumbadumdum t1_iv4vfgq wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,181)

West is rightfully being called out for industrializing without any accountability. Delhi Smog problem is more related to geography and stubble burning. For example, Mumbai & Bengaluru both have similar levels of emissions as Delhi but don't experience this problem.

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zumbadumbadumdum t1_iv5fee6 wrote

Replying to Friendofthegarden (#449,489)

Cult of personality?to a certain section yes.. but he runs on specific issues(Gujarat model in 2014, Pakistan in 2019, CAA in Bengal).. and consolidating OBC,SC voters in most states. A more apt cult of personality example in indian context would be balasaheb Thackeray..

Who said he hates democracy? BJP is an election juggernaut.. those guys fight elections even where there's zero chances of BJP winning.

Can't take blame?? As opposed to which honest politician? Convincing voters how something isn't their fault is what politicians do..

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kdonirb t1_iv5k386 wrote

Replying to Zekrom16 (#443,839)

stubble burning is, yes, part of it, but the push to industrialize and the energy requirements to make that successful are only going to exacerbate - not meant to judge/cast aspersions, just reading/wondering. India has such greatness, I can’t not pay attention.

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Zekrom16 t1_iv5lvpq wrote

Replying to kdonirb (#449,728)

I kinda agree but Aqi in July was 70 and now it's above 500. Aqi is satisfactory in months before the stubble burning. Stubble burning plays the majority role in this condition of Delhi and surrounding cities. There are larger and more industrialise cities with less pollution. If stubble burning is stopped there will be no such articles. It's deflection to blame Industrialization when stubble burning is literally engulfing dozens of cities.

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AnarchyinGroland t1_iv5txyo wrote

I had air suality indexes of 700 in China and I can relate. Its basically 4 packs of cigs a day

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kdonirb t1_ivackq9 wrote

Replying to Zekrom16 (#449,800)

semantics - dirty air is dirty air , wherever. and it’s not deflection, it’s wondering how much worse can things become because of plans that will exacerbate existing conditions. again, wherever.

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Different-General-23 t1_ivbmi1i wrote

Replying to evert198201 (#442,181)

Developing nations are completely correct to blame the west. We are in the current climate predicament not because of _this year's_ emissions but because of the accumulated effects of emissions since the dawn of the industrial revolution. Yes - this year's emissions are adding to the problem. We are here, though, because of the emissions that were put out while the west built itself to its current state of development. Many developing nations see demands like yours as the west pulling up the ladder behind them.

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doofleton t1_ivfz78z wrote

Replying to Assblastersauce (#442,839)

I have asthma and lived there several years ago. I had annual bronchitis attacks, had to use a nebulizer and wore masks long before Covid was a thing. Eventually moved.

Got a fantastic job offer there some years ago. Great money, great colleagues. Turned it down for weather/health reasons alone.

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alias241 t1_ivh9vx3 wrote

470 pm2.5...bad. I have an air quality meter in my kitchen and over 200 (which can happen when I sear a steak) sets off my fire alarm.

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