Kayakingtheredriver t1_ix21smg wrote on November 20, 2022 at 3:27 AM

Reply to comment by dubya_a in Trump tweeted an image from a spy satellite, declassified document shows by cherbug

A president can release information anyway they wish. There is a reason he isn't being prosecuted for this specific case. A president, much to your chagrin, can do what they want with information while president. Maybe that is a rule we as a country can change, and should change, but there is no criminal liability as president for mishandling of information. We can all say he mishandled it, but president is the one position, in which mishandling isn't a criminal/liability situation. AS such... a president is allowed to do with information what they wish, like tweet it without any risk of criminality. Once done, the security level of the secret released is moot. It is in the public domain by presidential decree. Similar to releasing it on the floor of congress. Once done, it just is.

dubya_a t1_ix27i39 wrote on November 20, 2022 at 4:18 AM

You are incorrect in several statements here. Trump is being investigated for these very specific cases, a special master has been appointed, in fact.

Criminal liability is not needed in order to investigate and find that Trump mishandled classified materials, but by nature of the warrants used to seize the classified documents, criminal liability has teeth.

Specifically though, https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924 lays out felony charges for someone who "knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location". Seems relevant.

Classified materials regarding atomic secrets do have a separate classification law that includes criminal penalties, and there are reports that some of the mishandled Mar A Lago assets that Trump refused to return to the White House were atomic in nature.

Regardless, failing to follow the basic procedures to declassify the documents - even after he did so by his perfect thoughts - and failure to return the classified docs even after being requested to do so for years... that's pretty bad. POTUS cannot claim ignorance to declassification procedures and the requests to return them. Besides, what's the old saying conservatives love, ignorance is no excuse?

It is telling that you jumped straight to criminal, not administrative or clearance-related penalties, and you should not be so haughty.

Kayakingtheredriver t1_ix28jx4 wrote on November 20, 2022 at 4:28 AM

No, Trump is being investigated for mishandling documents after he left the presidency. Nothing he did with documents while president is prosecutable. The second he was no longer acting president is when laws were broken, not until. This specific case we are discussing was 1 year into his presidency. We may not like that a president can release highly classified information directly to Vladimir Putin (effectively outing Israeli sources), but Trump did it, because he could, and beyond impeachment, there is no solution. As such, the president is ultimate decider of who needs to know. Releasing it to Twitter, as sitting president, there is no legal remedy. It was legal because as executive, he was the ultimate decider that information should be out there. It is the same reason Kushner was getting access to documents his clearance level didn't yet allow because of the myriad financial ties he had to outside countries/entities. He got the access to the information because trump said he should have access. Same thing.

dubya_a t1_ix2et7r wrote on November 20, 2022 at 5:31 AM

You're changing the argument again, but go ahead, you seem to be enjoying it.

Regardless, Trump cannot declassify documents by thought alone, nor can he do so retroactively.

Kayakingtheredriver t1_ix2ex9n wrote on November 20, 2022 at 5:33 AM

My argument has been the same since I began it. I have never once said he could. I simply have always said he (sitting president) can share it with whomever he wants, and doing so makes its classification moot.

dubya_a t1_ix2ndq4 wrote on November 20, 2022 at 7:15 AM

I provided specific examples and laws why that is wrong.

Kayakingtheredriver t1_ix2p2yh wrote on November 20, 2022 at 7:38 AM

Lol, you provided an example why it is wrong when he was no longer president. As president he had all the authorization. This has never been about Mar a Lago. The subject is the tweet he made as president and how that tweet made the classification of the material contained moot. It was now public record whether intelligence agencies liked it or not, and the president has the authorization to release it so there are no mishandling charges possible.

dubya_a t1_ix71elm wrote on November 21, 2022 at 5:54 AM

"Lol" no, when he was president, there is still a process to follow. This will certainly be litigated, but a legal process for declassifying documentation, especially atomic secrets, exists for a reason.

Kayakingtheredriver t1_ix7hkmw wrote on November 21, 2022 at 9:39 AM

There is no situation where the president is not authorized when it comes to information. That is the problem with how it is written. The president has the ultimate authorization when it comes to information. As such, while president, there is no punishment for the mishandling of information, giving it away or tweeting it on twitter. You can grasp at your process all you want. If there are no consequences for him not following them, and there are not, grasping at the process is all you can do. We all know he should follow the process, but the process isn't what gives him the power. The office does that, not the process. The process unfortunately, is for everyone else. The proof is in the pudding, there are no charges or criminal investigations regarding this tweet. There would be if what you were arguing were true.