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EcstaticRaisin959 t1_j0hz4bk wrote

A certain major medical provider in the US, primarily in WA, is no longer directing healthcare workers with COVID to self-quarantine as they are tired of having to pay workers' compensation benefits.


PlayfulParamedic2626 t1_j0ice6m wrote

I was gonna say. We definitely do this in America too.


EcstaticRaisin959 t1_j0ichsc wrote

But you see when we do something it's because of freedom, when China does it it's because they are very very bad


WickedDemiurge t1_j0j0bg8 wrote

The thing that is startling to many is the sheer hypocrisy of this after China has been using torture-like lockdowns to fight COVID on one hand, and then cavalierly infecting people by having contagious health care workers spread the infection on the other. The US has been fairly consistent in the last year with a "we have a vaccine that works very well, so please get it," policy, by comparison.


Only a month ago ten people died in a fire, exacerbated due to COVID restrictions, and Chinese officials commented, “Some residents’ ability to rescue themselves was too weak … and they failed to escape.”


China is an extreme authoritarian state that has mishandled COVID extensively. They don't need your defense.


supaloopar t1_j0j6jrd wrote

Zero Covid was designed with the assumption all countries would practise quarantined to snuff out the disease in unison. You know, the same practises being advocated by the advanced nations when poor countries have outbreaks?

Well, that underlying assumptions was false.


WickedDemiurge t1_j0j89z0 wrote

If China was on the dark side of the moon and had design their policy without communication with other humans, this would be a defense, but it is not.


China knows that almost all other nations have stopped lock-downs and quarantines a long time ago for three reasons:

a. they are incredibly disruptive to human quality of life

b. COVID has an absurdly high R0 and is very difficult to control from spreading

c. The mRNA vaccines are exceedingly effective at preventing severe disease


China is also still doing weird things like practicing surface disinfection which has been shown to be more or less worthless as COVID does not reliably transmit through surfaces, but through airborne droplets.


Their policy is arguably bad even in a vacuum, but obviously absurd when given what everyone else is doing. It's an open question if we could have stopped COVID from becoming endemic if we had rigorously enforced quarantine during the first few months, but that's been a complete impossibility for a long time now. I was in favor of very strict quarantine at the beginning, but policy needs to change with the times.


A vaccination first strategy is the best path forward, along with general infectious disease control steps like mandatory paid sick days for all workers, requiring health care providers to stay home when sick, etc.


in-game_sext t1_j0je5uc wrote

I think it still rightly freaks people out because the Chinese government is famously impartial to the quality of life or well-being of their population. They have a long track record of putting productivity at the top end of all public interests. Why do they care so much about this still, at the extreme detriment of things like business and productivity? Personally it sometimes makes me think they still know something about it that we don't.


Kale t1_j0jb2y5 wrote

Zero COVID policy might have made sense with the original strain, alpha variant, and maybe Delta variant. After omicron, zero COVID is not feasible and not effective.


sapphicsandwich t1_j0ufudo wrote

It's known to be false so it's absurd to continue on pretending everyone else is going to do it. They should act according to reality, not hopes and dreams.


circumtopia t1_j0jcyy3 wrote

Lmao consistent. What a bunch of bullshit. They've gone from omg covid is going to doom us... We need vaccines to attend a concert to "just work through it". They mishandled? Why don't you compare deaths per capita? Even foreigners in China can admit that lockdown shit worked despite how much it was despised eventually. They were consistent for years until omicron is now becoming far less deadly than before thereby avoiding the mass deaths during delta that the US experienced. But do go on your high horse.


bagelizumab t1_j0iuru6 wrote

Yeah. Admins are free to get bigger bonus for their boats. It was promised in the bill of rights bro! Freedom of Assembly of huge piles of cash by doing terrible and unethical things.


Street-Badger t1_j0ku9n5 wrote

It’s not that surprising to see health care administrators lining up with the CCP, it’s the same personality type after all.


Valyrian_Kobolds t1_j0io3e3 wrote

Is it Swedish? It's Swedish isn't it


EcstaticRaisin959 t1_j0ioug2 wrote

Hahahaha, Swedish are such dicks, but they are not who I am speaking of. I'd be shocked to find out the health system I have certain knowledge of is the only one doing this though.


in-game_sext t1_j0jdpek wrote

Why be so shy about the name? Doesn't make sense. I guess it doesn't matter though, all hospital corporations are like that these days anyways.


mhc-ask t1_j0iqtn8 wrote

I doubt they were paying much at all. They will fight tooth and nail to make you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you got COVID from work and not from the general public. More likely they are running out of warm bodies to keep the hospital running and want people to keep working even if they're positive.


EcstaticRaisin959 t1_j0iro69 wrote

And you would be wrong, WA passed a law early in 2020 that said front line and healthcare workers were presumed to have caught covid at work unless there was a preponderance of evidence against it, the state has been allowing claims any time a healthcare worker was directed to quarantine by their employer. Hence said employer not wanting to direct workers to quarantine anymore.

Edit: WA is a very worker friendly jurisdiction and I'm certain that other states have made things hell for sick healthcare workers


mhc-ask t1_j0ix546 wrote

That's actually really good to hear. This was not the case when I was in Virginia.


mhc-ask t1_j0iqufs wrote

I doubt they were paying much at all. They will fight tooth and nail to make you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you got COVID from work and not from the general public. More likely they are running out of warm bodies to keep the hospital running and want people to keep working even if they're positive.


Manadrache t1_j0hrj5r wrote

Just cross out Chinese and put another country in that sentence.

All over the world people, working in hospitals, pharmacies, care taking facilities have had to work with covid as long as they were without any symptoms.

And all they got is applause. Hah!


myOpinion23 t1_j0ht5yw wrote

Not while infected? Or actually i guess if you are infected you can work with infected patients


Manadrache t1_j0httct wrote

While infected!

In Germany they could get told to work as long as they don't have any symptoms (like a silent infection). As soon as they have symptoms they would have to go into isolation.

This was the rule of thumb during the big rises of covid and the big lockdowns.

During that time I worked in a pharmacy and we were allowed by law to work with an infection. Can't tell you though if anyone did.


myOpinion23 t1_j0hx488 wrote

Yeah i thought so thats why i made the edit


Manadrache t1_j0ibbbu wrote

Answered before your edit. But I totally get it that it sounds a bit weird because you would think: who's ill should stay at home.


taccak t1_j0i43xv wrote

I'm a junior doctor and I have to work even tho I was infected in middle-2021.

I didn't have a fever but a pretty bad case of pharyngitis.


breadexpert69 t1_j0hpis0 wrote

Media shts on them for strict covid rules and now its for loose covid rules


OOOOO0000OOO00O t1_j0ib6xk wrote

“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.

If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”


varateshh t1_j0kxrim wrote

They get shit on for focusing so hard on zero-covid policy that alternative plans like vaccine drives were not prioritized. Now the government suddenly ended zero-covid policies without having said vaccinations in place and you have a huge undervaccinated population vulnerable in place.

Some of the big issues facing China:

• Sinovac vaccine is less efficient than western vaccines, most Chinese citizens only got 1-2 shots (sinovac needs 3 shots, with last being done recently for 80-90ish% protection vs severe disease)

• Extremely limited number of intensive care beds per 1000 citizens and China did not build this capability up in past two years due to belief in zero-covid.

• Sinovac halted or heavily reduced production of covid vaccine shots. Usage of foreign vaccines is utter anathema to the CCP.

All these issues mean that China was not ready to fully open up within a week. It's like the CCP panicked and failed to do due diligence. Had they done this over 3-12 months (depending on vaccine drive) then things would be a lot more manageable.

Edit: Had to remove a point about state media and their agenda because Reddit shadowbans it. If interested I recommend checking up on recent economist article that discusses the downsides of it.


WickedDemiurge t1_j0j14fg wrote

Because both of those are the wrong answer. The solution was always vaccination, but they've made extensive mistakes over the long term with that. Zero COVID was always deranged, but people shouldn't need to risk being infected with diseases by health care workers who are known to be sick.


No-Perspective-317 t1_j0hzqha wrote

Bozo material.

They shit on them for being super hard on lockdowns but this article is them shitting on the fact they are allowing covid positive people to work at a hospital.

Because its a massive contradiction and a bigger health risk if a nurse has covid and is interacting with staff and patients.

Both parts are stupid for their own reasons


MotherPierogi t1_j0ibirq wrote

This is not unique to China. It's been happening in the US, too. Even during the height of COVID, major healthcare organizations refused to pay for COVID time off unless you were able to prove you contracted it from exposure at work. A lot of healthcare organizations also don't care if anyone in your household is positive, you will continue to work until you've tested positive.


WritingTheRongs t1_j0ifzis wrote

i work for a major health care organization. we got 14 days paid if we got covid no questions asked. Which makes sense because it is not possible to prove where you caught a virus.


mokutou t1_j0jguqy wrote

The hospital system I worked for set it in policy that workers comp could not be invoked for a serious COVID infection in an employee because they said it was extremely unlikely that employees would pick it up from work if they followed proper transmission-based protocols.

This was when we were using the same N95 masks until they literally fell apart.

We technically got unlimited sick days if it was COVID or suspected COVID, but it wasn’t paid unless we used our vacation time.


meme_max_1 t1_j0hzob3 wrote

This was done in western countries too during the peak of Covid. If you’ve got very mild Covid/asymptomatic Covid it’s better to treat others with Covid than let doctors without Covid treat those patients incase they get a severe case of Covid.


Flbudskis t1_j0i8ypk wrote

Sounds like the US approach.


[deleted] t1_j0i4c6m wrote

Same happened here for nurses. Sick? Too bad$


code_archeologist t1_j0hrfks wrote

I may not be a medical expert, but that just seems like a bad idea.


mces97 t1_j0i87gj wrote

Doesn't take a medical expert to know people are contagious with viruses before symptoms show up. Before covid this was known. Profits before health.


ProperGanja21 t1_j0hrhwr wrote

Damn....maybe those zero covid rules were in place for a reason?


breadexpert69 t1_j0hw06l wrote

Media was gna sht on them regardless. This is just propaganda.


varateshh t1_j0iffyk wrote

> Some hospitals in Beijing have up to 80% of their staff infected, but many of them are still required to work due to staff shortages

At a certain point to provide needed healthcare you need essential workers to still show up when testing positive. Maybe even show up with mild to medium symptoms if their absence will cause more harm to health and safety.

If the choice is between no healthcare vs healthcare with infected workforce then I would choose the latter for critical cases. It will cause deaths but more would die if there was no one running needed ventilators to keep serious ill people alive.


Mundetiam t1_j0ivesg wrote

Wow that’s crazy. Anyway, the US government and commercial sector long ago gave up trying to care about managing the virus.


mokutou t1_j0jfw7k wrote

I mean, we do it here too. By the end of 2020, my former facility put out a policy which stated that staff that came up positive but either asymptomatic or had mild symptoms without fever could come back immediately and staff the COVID unit for their required ten days of “quarantine.” So this is far from a new concept.


MeatsimPD t1_j0iqqup wrote

If China would import a more effective vaccine they'd have an easier time controlling Covid, instead they insist on going with the home brew type


Revolutionary_Eye887 t1_j0ju0bj wrote

So at this point China wants everyone to get COVID asap. Whoever survives survives.


WritingTheRongs t1_j0iftof wrote

what's the sensation called again? the feeling like you've seen this before?


tedrick111 t1_j0k761e wrote

The odds are fairly overwhelming that at least one new variant is coming out of this. Rest of the world: We're in for at least one more wave as a result.


Kyonikos t1_j0jte42 wrote

China is in for a hard time with Covid now that their Zero Covid strategy is collapsing for multiple reasons, including the evolution of the Covid virus.

I wish them well.


542Archiya124 t1_j0kqrbl wrote

Love how everything is saying is happening in other government or countries while the news try so hard to put down China…lol


LeonSilverhand t1_j0kqjsr wrote

Honestly, I think this China covid situation is propaganda, maybe to affect the supply issue as it has, which drives up inflation and cost of living and unemployment. Then, when the global economy crashes, the WEF and their cabinet members can introduce a new economic model (WEF have said they want economic change), which will be driven by digital IDs and digital currency (CBDC), which countries across the world such as NZ, Canada and Brazil announced signing up for (with some already having launched and others in the R&D phase).

I say this after the first pandemic, China shortly went completely quiet about its stats. I remember China reaching 88k deaths or cases n then there was radio silence. Because it's an authoritarian state and can tell/hide whatever it likes. So when they want to tell us something, it's certainly for some State gain. Smoke n mirrors.


SuperSimpleSam t1_j0ic2nu wrote

Just have them work in the COVID ward. /s


TheFan88 t1_j0snhsm wrote

This is not /s. This is exactly what we did in the US. Work in Covid ward when we’ll enough to work but still testing positive.


coldroot t1_j0htbwm wrote

Chinese Authoritarianism has no respect for citizens wellbeing.