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Avangelice t1_j12aco9 wrote

Sigh... Tell me its not click bait... Lemme dive into the article... Brb

Okay I'm back. Original piece posted by op is a click bait meant to get you pissed. Had to go into the marine article and first para said this.

A new academic report on efforts to integrate Marine Corps boot camp recommends dropping gender-specific salutations for drill instructors, but service leaders are not convinced they want to take that step.

Study says this but high ups say we are considering but nope.


OhNoMyLands t1_j12f6p5 wrote

There’s this science fiction series called “the expanse” and it delves into this in an indirect way. Instead of “yes sir” and “yes ma’am” they just say “yes sir” to both genders.


VanVelding t1_j12j8tp wrote

Star Trek did it too until Voyager.


Larmefaux t1_j12p90c wrote

And Voyager did acknowledge that tradition when Janeway requested not to be called sir.


tehmeangene t1_j13ow78 wrote

Janeway requested to be called Captain. Ma'am was acceptable in a crunch.


SheriffComey t1_j14dvld wrote

And now let's move on to Janeway and Schrödinger's Prime Directive.


dastultz t1_j13iq0j wrote

I understand "sir" to be short for "senior", as a title of respect. It isn't necessarily gender specific. We can change words however we want to.


TheOccultist t1_j15073n wrote

No, you really can't.


Electrical_Tip352 t1_j151z4h wrote

Yes we really can. The meaning of words changes all the time. Take guys for example. Originally a gendered term, but is now, in common language, gender neutral. Same with dude.


TheOccultist t1_j153hxt wrote

Words mean something for a reason. If you change the meaning of words then they don't really mean anything. How about we change go f*** yourself to actually mean you look great today? Do you think this could cause any confusion and problems? What about racial slurs? Can we say that they mean flowers and bunny rabbits now and that's okay? What if we change the word stupid to actually mean smart? Words mean something for a reason. And by switching them around at whim all you're doing is degrading human language and what it means.


Electrical_Tip352 t1_j1545ns wrote,different%20from%20the%20original%20usage.

Here you go buddy. No one is talking about one person just deciding a word isn’t bad 😂. The meanings of words literally changes over time in a society.


TheOccultist t1_j1562gj wrote

Yes, obviously I realized there's a precedence. And that has often gone on to lead to more stupidity and ambiguity. Look at the word literally. It literally does not mean literally anymore and this literally is a sentence that doesn't make sense.


Electrical_Tip352 t1_j15c50u wrote

Lol. I literally get what you’re saying. Hahah.


ScottIPease t1_j16h31w wrote

and here I am literally wondering if they are a literal troll, or literal moron...


Noman800 t1_j154mr2 wrote

Words are just sounds coming out of your mouth. We arbitrarily decided what they meant to start with, they aren't imbued with meaning. Words and their meaning are malleable and change all the damn time.


NoHateMan62 t1_j15ttod wrote

Isnt that already the case?


Telerrek t1_j169qel wrote

Nope, the official way to address a female commissioned officer is Ma'am.


d4vezac t1_j135zrs wrote

It’s OP’s super cringey blog 🤣


cast-away-ramadi06 t1_j12msfq wrote

Too lazy to read the article, but I'm betting this is just for Bootcamp. What they're probably looking at is what I think the Army does, which is to address Drill Sgts as "Drill Sgt".

In the Corps, it's "Aye aye Sir". They'd probably replace it with "Aye Aye Drill Instructor". There's no way they're going to expect recruits to know ranks during the first couple of days.


EndangeredBanana t1_j13vm9w wrote

In Army boot camp recruits learn REALLY quick not to address Drill Sergeants as "Sir." One will be reminded that Drill Sergeants "work for a living."


Informal-Suit9126 OP t1_j12ahjs wrote

It's not. it's sourced.


AwesomeBrainPowers t1_j12fv0s wrote

  1. It's a WordPress blog with no About section or ownership statement and a Twitter feed that hypes up The Crazy Pillow Guy.

  2. The much better source it references does not say anyone "is planning" on doing anything: It says USMC commissioned a study, and the brass was looking at it, but they had reservations. And that's all.


Wait a minute.

You spend a lot of time submitting that shitty WordPress blog to various subs around this site.

Is it...your shitty WordPress blog, by chance?


Noktious t1_j12hgsn wrote

I love this comment.

And you're probably right. Lol


TheElderFish t1_j12hoow wrote

Find a single .gov or .mil source that backs up your argument and I'll donate $100 to your favorite charity.

Or admit you're a complete fucking idiot.


Velkyn01 t1_j13fxq2 wrote

Get rekt OP. Absolutely dunked on.


MilitiaJoanHart t1_j15sg43 wrote

lol you can’t reference your blog and call it a source you bottomless dweeb


TurningTwo t1_j12akpv wrote

Yes boss. No boss. I don’t know boss.


Rare-Notice7417 t1_j12czzp wrote

Whatever nothing will ever be as controversial as when they briefly decided to stop rolling up sleeves. Some people I worked with based their entire personality off of that shit.


Electrical_Tip352 t1_j152dn2 wrote

I based my entire judgement of another Marine off of their sleeve roll. Lol. Really jacked me up when we stopped. Now how am I supposed to make snap judgements based off of an inconsequential fabric roll?!


Cherubtabs t1_j143wg1 wrote

Also phasing out desert MARPAT


the_Q_spice t1_j14nx1z wrote

They still use it, it is just that it is not rotated as the required summer uniform.

This is to better align with the reality that most of the world isn't a desert, it was only really a thing because of Iraq and Afghanistan. Once we got out, we realized how ridiculous wearing desert camo around in summer in most places actually is.

The background on this is that the vast majority of landmass in the world is temperate forests to grasslands where woodland MARPAT works best. This is especially true in littoral zones where the USMC is refocusing its operational envelope to right now.

That aside, the USMC's approach to having desert on in the summer and woodland on in the winter was more than a bit backwards. Lets put it this way: they had green on when everything was white or brown, and tan/brown on when everything was green. No matter the season, they never blended in with anything.

The new directive matches better with the US environment, and explicitly allows for commanders of overseas bases to make their own determination based on the local environment.

It makes a ton more sense than just arbitrarily wearing desert in the summer and woodland in the winter. The biggest controversy I have heard of is why didn't we do this sooner.


Cherubtabs t1_j14pqzg wrote

I appreciate the practical side of this but I was just speaking to the dismay of Marines who really liked rolled up sleeves with desert MARPAT.

And I do have to admit, it is very aesthetic


the_Q_spice t1_j14t9j4 wrote

Honestly, the USMC should switch to the Army method of camo out rolling.

It makes the roll look better (eliminating your concern) and has been proven to be superior in case of CRBN attack (you can roll down the sleeves much faster).

The Army's timing of reintroducing camo out rolling is also quite interesting as it coincides with several ISIL chemical attacks, specifically with blister agents like sulfur-mustard in what at the time was not considered a chemical warfare environment .

Gen. Mark Milley approved "camo out roll" Sep. 27, 2016

Mustard Gas attack on USMC near Mosul Sep. 23, 2016

The timing is either one hell of a coincidence or directly related. My guess is the latter, especially given that Milley's memo had significant portions redacted, which is odd for something so seemingly benign as saying "you can roll your sleeves differently".


Electrical_Tip352 t1_j152mbq wrote

The Marines should base literally nothing off of how the Army does stuff.


DefiantDonut7 t1_j12apq7 wrote


“But service leaders are not convinced they want to take that step”


Looter629 t1_j13vn38 wrote

Damn, there goes my morning dose of rage. Guess I'll have to find it elsewhere. Any good trans articles floating around today? Drag queens?


CinderPetrichor t1_j12bjjr wrote

>“Instead of saying ‘ma’am’ or ‘sir,’ recruits in these Services refer to their drill instructors using their ranks or roles followed by their last names. Gendered identifiers prime recruits to think about or visually search for a drill instructor’s gender first, before their rank or role.”

Seems reasonable. Sucks having to remember names, don't they wear name tags?


angiosperms- t1_j12bs7y wrote

Yeah their uniform says their last name. Plus it's the same as calling your teacher Ms/Mr whatever

I love how mad people are about this when it won't affect them EVER lmao


PrecedentialAssassin t1_j12kjjf wrote

I nominate "I gotcha, bro."


Ariandrin t1_j12z8aq wrote

In high end kitchens, they say “yes chef”, and I feel like “yes -rank-“ should be fine if they desperately want a gender neutral option.


Velkyn01 t1_j13g15u wrote

That's how the enlisted ranks do it. Roger, Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, etc.


Scodo t1_j13pgwj wrote

That's now Navy boot camp does it.

Yes Chief

No Chief

You're doing pushups either way.


IAlreadyFappedToIt t1_j147rgw wrote

Imagine the benefits to unit morale, comraderie, and group cohesion if the response to any orders/requests were "I gotcha, bro!"


edeolivita t1_j1345si wrote

This is highly sexist, an act of discrimination against all the 'sis.'


coneofpine2 t1_j12ek7s wrote

I don’t know nothing but I thought sir was a gender neutral form if used in this context


spoonard t1_j13owo6 wrote

They are worried about feelings when they are trained to kill??? That seems weird.


Jub_Jub710 t1_j12ahtd wrote

....but you can address women as "Sir".


bananafobe t1_j1493no wrote

You can also address men as "ma'am."

In fact you can address pretty much anything as pretty much anything.


AwfulUsername123 t1_j12eas8 wrote

If they want to treat men and women equally, why must only men register for the draft?


90swasbest t1_j12fqkp wrote

How does the color yellow smell? How did that keep off the grass sign get there? Can you square root infinity?


Yankas t1_j13f3gx wrote

>Can you square root infinity?

No, infinity is not a number.


tuccified t1_j13unut wrote

Been awhile but isn't it just infinity?


Yankas t1_j17lhe7 wrote

No, it causes confusion because of limits.

So the limit of √x as x becomes bigger (approaches infinity) is equal to infinity. However, while it can approach infinity, it can never actually be infinity. It's not an actual, number it's just an idea of numbers growing forever (infinitely).

An easier to understand example is y = 1 / x, if we look at what happens, as x becomes smaller, the result will become bigger.
1 / 1 = 1
1 / 0.1 = 10
1 / 0.01 = 100
1 / 0.00001 = 100000
etc ...

Theoretically, as x becomes closer and closer to 0, the result (y) will just keep becoming bigger and bigger infinitely. And, so it is said that the limit is equal infinity.But, it will never actually be infinity, because dividing by zero is undefined.


Eelwithzeal t1_j12mwpz wrote

I have synesthesia and yellow smells like Communism.


Sanpaku t1_j12pvu3 wrote

Silly. Yellow smells like sauteed turmeric, saffron, and cardamon.


Sanpaku t1_j12pmlw wrote

If I recall correctly from service in the US Army Reserve decades ago, every officer is a sir, whether male or female.

NCOs are addressed by rank. After all, unlike the 'sirs', they work for a living.

Make the terms gender neutral. Be the change.


bananafobe t1_j131g6o wrote

I don't usually buy into the military hype, but I'm confident they'll find a way to survive this.


I8wFu t1_j13wsek wrote

Even when I was in the military we knew 'madam' was f-up and weird and one day everyone would be Sir


Pobbes t1_j1422fr wrote

Somewhere in here is a military joke about marines being too dumb to know who is giving them orders, and officers being too anal to let it go. I can't quite figure it out, though. Feel free to give it a go. Bonus points if you can figure out how to get the marines to mix up ma'am and sir into 'Yes, massah' for maximum offensiveness.


i8thepickles t1_j14ucu8 wrote

The rest of the world is laughing at us


Many-Salad2603 t1_j14vhhm wrote

MARINES say AYE Sir. Not yes. And its one of the only branches where you can call a superior "DevilDog" instead of Sir and not get your head chewed off.


bluecollardeplorable t1_j14u8s7 wrote

This is why the United States can only have a proxy war. Soldiers still are not pronoun ready to go overseas


frankofantasma t1_j12idvh wrote

Kind of pointless, since marine corps women are already indistinguishable from marine corps men :P


Metachamp- t1_j14bfqi wrote

What in the f*** is going on with our military. That is an institution where we do not want to carry out social experiments. Strict discipline is needed. I cannot believe the corp is thinking about getting rid of the term, "yes, sir". Are you freaking kidding me?


NPVT t1_j12egre wrote

Sir is British anyway. It shouldn't be used. Sir Johnson.


Jeep_Girl_2000 t1_j13ecc3 wrote

Ace Levy : Sir, I don't understand. Who needs a knife in a nuke fight anyway? All you gotta do is push a button, sir.

Career Sergeant Zim : Cease fire.


AlphusUltimus t1_j137ix3 wrote


Done. Cancel the woke drama.


[deleted] t1_j12cgb6 wrote



Good-Expression-4433 t1_j12dnor wrote

Other branches have already shifted to using the rank and last name of their superior. Even in this case, the Marines are looking to just use it for drill instructors and not their service leaders.


TopDeckHero420 t1_j12d5nu wrote

Yeah, what good is desegregation? Why should women vote?

This is just the natural evolution of having women in the military.

I honestly though Yes/no "rank" was the default these days. Maybe that's just too much TV.


TheElderFish t1_j12hw0j wrote

Some things just don't add value, like your comment, or this bullshit clickbait article.


quesarah t1_j12f39d wrote

Ridiculous. Just use "Sir" regardless of gender, or "rank" "last name".

Who cares. It's only small mouth noises, let's just get on with it.


Mr_Metrazol t1_j12iqm2 wrote

>Who cares. It's only small mouth noises, let's just get on with it.

Political appointees looking for the next promotion in a social climate that revolves around promoting racial and sexual minorities over practical ability.

The word 'sir' in a gender-neutral world is a slur.


ogromnyy-konchil t1_j12bwje wrote

Well don't just plan it, fucking do it. For fucks sakes.