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[deleted] t1_j19kcob wrote

Reply to comment by YouJustSaidButFuck in Native Hawaiian women and girls experience sex trafficking and violence at alarming rates, report says by SunCloud-777

people on the mainland have no idea and/or don't care that hawaii is basically 1/2 starving abused native people and 1/2 pineapple plantation, with a thin veneer of rich people's houses and resorts to keep visitors from noticing it. they are barely a part of the usa, those people have few to no rights, and if you ask me it's basically as much of a US colony as puerto rico or guam are. they simply stick a different label on these places as a superficial fix, so i am also not the least bit surprised that the military personnel deployed there are horrible to the natives.

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YouJustSaidButFuck t1_j19mcl0 wrote

This reads like someone told you some anecdotes about living in Hawaii and you just regurgitated them.

Describing Hawaii as "barely part of the USA" is the most ignorant description of Hawaii, regardless of what island you may or may not have visited.

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BornAgainBlue t1_j19n2ss wrote

That person has never been, I can tell you that much.

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[deleted] t1_j19osh0 wrote

and you are from michigan, so im going to assume your only visit was as a tourist, i.e. you went to exactly the staged and manicured tourist areas that i described. there are mass shootings there all the time, usually on the part of the police, and there is a massive meth and opioid issue there among a homeless population that comes there expecting to live the easy life on the beach and ends up in tent cities. the cops want nothing more than to keep the poor natives and the homeless away from the tourist areas, and they will use extreme violence to enforce that especially when they know they aren't being observed, as is the case when they raid the encampments.

my friend was shot and killed in one such raid, so i'm fairly sure you are the one that has not seen the actual state of the place.

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BornAgainBlue t1_j19wqsa wrote

Which island do you live on?

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[deleted] t1_j19xxsy wrote

i've already answered this twice, but for the sake of anyone else reading who can't view the entire thread: i am from hilo, i left shortly after my friend was killed.

Edit: this was in the news, he was a schizophrenic who had wandered into a vacation property and was shot multiple times by a swat team.

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Art-Zuron t1_j19vgq6 wrote

Hawaii was technically illegally annexed, so I wouldn't actually be that surprised. It was a sovereign country which had electricity and plumbing before even the US whitehouse. It was self sufficient and had a stable government and the indigenous people, the rightful people of that land, controlled it.

Then White plantation owners staged a coup, ousted the queen, and petitioned the US government, through a group of sympathetic senators, to annex Hawaii. It was illegal to do so, however, as a sovereign state, which the US recognized. The federal government refused to bring Hawaii in as a state, as it was not only super unethical, but they were getting a huge deal out of it. The Queen was allowing the US navy to station there, and the US didn't have to pay much of the upkeep for it.

In response, the gov ordered the plantation owners to fuck off, and the Queen was going to return to power. Then the Spanish American war kicked off. The Philippines were still Spanish controlled back then and the West Coast was quite vulnerable if the Spanish decided to attack. So, the US government decided to say "fuck it" and annexed Hawaii as a territory so that the Queen couldn't reconsider the role of Americans in her country given what they had done.

Nowadays, the Islands would starve in a few weeks because the US butchered the land, destroyed their self sufficiency, and shut out most of the indigenous populations from government and representation for decades. Lots of awful shit has been done to the locals, from nearly exterminating their culture, and co-opting what was left, to destroying or building on sacred sites. There's videos of people pissing on their hallowed ground.

So, don't color me surprised to learn any of that was true at some point, or even still true.

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bihari_baller t1_j1a2haw wrote

>Hawaii was technically illegally annexed

If you want to go there, Johnny Harris has a video "How the U.S. stole Hawaii"

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[deleted] t1_j1a3wl7 wrote

johnny harris does not always present information accurately and generally includes a painful amount of self indulgent footage that is entirely unrelated to the topic of his videos, so while i enjoyed a few of his pieces shortly after he left vox, the quality of his journalism has been dramatically worsening with each successive video.

afaik the hawaii video was pretty reasonable and accurate, but i can't stand watching so much b footage of him "doing research" or staring at a screen with a forced inquisitive look on his face, since it's so obviously egotistical.

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[deleted] t1_j19yge4 wrote

right, it's been utterly destroyed, it's natural ecosystem ruined with invasive species and the native people horrifically abused and deprived. it's a very bad place to live at this point unless you are a millionaire who only vacations there.

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Any_Cook_8888 t1_j1c89b2 wrote

I literally live in Hawaii, and while that guy does take it a bit far descriptively, he’s not wrong… Hawaii is not the US in terms of its development in almost all levels.

The only similarity is in its paved roads and some new developments to suit the desire of boxes with roofs that get off white folk/westernized tastes

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YouJustSaidButFuck t1_j1djy4v wrote

Lol by these standards a place like west Virginia is less part of the US than Hawaii.

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[deleted] t1_j1ds1mm wrote

[deleted]

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YouJustSaidButFuck t1_j1eqrxu wrote

I'm finding it difficult to comprehend many parts of your post

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[deleted] t1_j1escu7 wrote

[deleted]

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YouJustSaidButFuck t1_j1ewlqq wrote

I don't know where you're getting the "formal procedure" for annexation not being followed. Congress changed the law on this to initiate annexation, and McKinley signed that and subsequently moved forward with annexation without the need for a ratified treaty.

The state then subsequently went through the actual statehood process many times.

There was obviously major opposition throughout the process, especially by a native majority who pushed the senate hard to disapprove the original treaty, lbut this was ultimately defeated via the change in law for annexation.

The president absolutely signed the joint resolution by congress to change annexation rules and then subsequently did so.

Cleveland supported the Kingdom of Hawaii, but McKinley subsequently trounced it and basically gave Dole the governorship.

You can't just say "the US government supported the Kingdom of Hawaii". The US government is made up of thousands of people, holding variable positions on things. The US governments interests change with the leadership.

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[deleted] t1_j19o7bf wrote

my comment may have been a bit of a hyperbole, but it's far from ignorant or incorrect. barely a part of the usa is also extremely accurate. we only took it over as insulation from japan, and as this post and many others clearly describe, it's very rough for native people there. yes, there is tons of natural beauty too, but i think you are probably more jaded about the situation there for the past 50-70 years than i am.

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YouJustSaidButFuck t1_j19t6hg wrote

Hawaii become a territory in the late 1800s and voted on statehood many times before ww2. The annexation of Hawaii is way more complicated than fucking Japan insulation, that's just flat out ignorant. Sugar plantations basically forced the monarchy out, and votes went back and forth for decades before being approved by 90% of the population because they wanted full voting rights in the union. As a territory they already had "insulation" from Japan, as the US defends territories all the same as states.

Additionally you said it's 1/2 pineapple plantation. Most of the pineapple industry has long long left Hawaii and gone to southeast asia / the Phillipines.

From my perspective you know jack fucking shit about Hawaii.

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[deleted] t1_j19wphi wrote

i am describing what the united states did to hawaii, not what it inherently is as a place, nor am i making any kind of critical commentary towards the natives. as for the historical aspects of what you mentioned, you really didn't describe anything that different from what i said initially other than the pineapple thing.

please check rule numbers 7 and 8, and stop talking to me please.

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BornAgainBlue t1_j19x1ix wrote

You have never been. You have at best you know someone who says something happened to them one time.

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[deleted] t1_j19xqjr wrote

you are welcome to read my other comments, where you will find that i lived in hilo and that my friend was shot by police there last year. i also recommend you spellcheck your comments a little more thoroughly.

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BornAgainBlue t1_j19y3h6 wrote

I'm not the one who thought we acquired Hawaii to put a buffer between Japan and the United States. I agree with everyone else. You have never been to Hawaii. You don't know anything about Hawaii and the fact that you're going after spelling. Yours shows that you're getting a little desperate.

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[deleted] t1_j19ypv1 wrote

again, please check your spelling. i am not here to argue with anyone, so if you are here specifically to jab at me with various ungrounded insults, then kindly do that on your own time, by yourself, in a place where you will not bring harm to anyone else in your tantrum.

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BornAgainBlue t1_j1a0fb9 wrote

The word you are searching for is punctuation.

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[deleted] t1_j1a0n7j wrote

no, it's actually both spelling and punctuation. please stop talking to me now, thank you :)

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joeypublica t1_j19o9ar wrote

That’s a ridiculous take. Which island are you even talking about?

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[deleted] t1_j19pejw wrote

i lived in hilo. you are from where?

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joeypublica t1_j19sfe6 wrote

Lived on Oahu, spent quite a bit of time in Kauai, Maui, big island. Not much time on the Hilo side though. Yeah, there are plenty of problems but your post doesn’t describe what I experienced, to me it’s hyperbole and just works to cause arguments, like this one.

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[deleted] t1_j19x4hk wrote

i wasn't in or starting an argument with anyone, i am literally just talking. if you read into my comments as angry that's on you, but you and others here have absolutely tried to pick a fight, so i'm not sure you are going to get much credit for backpedaling now.

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Nearby_Corner7132 t1_j19sr36 wrote

Also methamphetamine abuse is rampant in Hawaii, the place is a meth filled paradise

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