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caliboyeightyeight t1_izsnt7e wrote

Can someone explain why he would be in US custody/trial instead of UK? A bit confused by that.

259

40mm_of_freedom t1_izsp6g0 wrote

There were Americans killed in the bombing. The US announced charges against him 2 years ago. Apparently he made a confession to Libyan authorities and the US is using that as evidence.

321

cthulhus_spawn t1_iztbkik wrote

I live in the U.S. and someone I know died on that plane. She was coming home for Christmas.

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PhilSpectorsMugshot t1_iztqgmr wrote

I’m sorry to hear that. I imagine it shook you and was quite traumatic.

One of my earliest memories of watching the news was the coverage of the Lockerbie bombing.

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cthulhus_spawn t1_izuijxw wrote

It was a very long time ago and we weren't close but we went to school together for years. There is a memorial for her in the center of town. It was... surreal to realize someone I knew had died in such an infamous way. Send your loving thoughts to her family. I'm ok. <3

60

AngryZen_Ingress t1_izv53sa wrote

I was standing in line at Sadler Dining Hall when the news came over. I didn’t know people only because it was the end of my first semester. It cast a pall over the entire year.

11

angelcobra t1_izvfpby wrote

Oh god. I’m so sorry. I know it was decades ago, but my sympathies.

4

slemoine94 t1_izw4vfb wrote

I knew someone too. We went to junior high school together. My heart breaks for his family, all this news coming up again.

2

onarainyafternoon t1_izxd6lh wrote

I'm sorry for your loss. My father was scheduled for the same flight but decided to postpone his departure by a week. It saved his life, and mine consequently.

2

hateitorleaveit t1_izw5cgt wrote

For those wondering:

  • 270 total fatalities (including 11 on the ground that the plane crashed onto)
  • 190 of those 270 were from the USA
  • plane was PanAm (USA airline)
  • plane was going from London to NYC
  • plane exploded over Scotland
14

auntieup t1_izyn5pz wrote

A detail that people often miss: the bomb aboard that flight was on a timer. The plane was supposed to blow up over water, but the flight departed about 20 minutes later than scheduled.

PA103 had received clearance to enter oceanic airspace from Shanwick Oceanic Control 6 seconds before the bomb went off. The message was never acknowledged.

9

hateitorleaveit t1_izynspv wrote

how on earth do you know when the bomb was supposed to blow up? Do you have something you want to tell the FBI? lol sounds like we got an inside man here

−7

auntieup t1_izypbmu wrote

My friend was murdered aboard that flight when I was in college. She was just 20. I was just a little bit older.

I have read every report on this disaster. I have watched all the TV coverage of it. I followed the initial investigation (the only good thing Poppy Bush ever did, btw) and then the show trial, like my life depended on it.

I’m not afraid of flying anymore, but Christmas has sucked for me for 34 years.

That’s how I know.

15

hateitorleaveit t1_izyplt5 wrote

Sorry to hear that. But still how would you know? How would anyone know? We don’t even know who did it, where in the world are you getting details even beyond that

−10

auntieup t1_izyqyox wrote

My brother in Christ, this is a matter of public record.

11

hateitorleaveit t1_izyrjt1 wrote

Why are you so upset about asking how you know that? Lol perfectly reasonable question. Is it stated in this link you shared? I can’t find any info on it in there. Maybe I missed it

−9

auntieup t1_izysg9e wrote

I think you miss a lot of things, lmao. Have a better day.

8

hateitorleaveit t1_izysqj1 wrote

Lol ok so you don’t know. Which is obvious because logically it would be impossible to know, it’s ok. Then just enjoy my joke. Sorry I exposed you lol it was meant to be playful

−3

MidnightSlinks t1_izssgig wrote

The US has proscecutorial jurisdiction on crimes committee on civil aircraft owned/operated by American companies. (It also has jurisdiction over crimes committed on foreign aircrafts on flights that land the US, and that's so that US officials can legally board the plane and arrest the person once it lands.)

This and related laws were put into place after a pilot was attacked in 1950 while flying over international waters. Even though it was an American civil aircraft both departing from and landing on US soil, the US had no laws on the books giving it jurisdiction.

Because the crime was committed over UK soil, the UK also has jurisdiction and they prospected his co-conspirator back in the day, but are letting the US take this one.

97

Puzzleworth t1_izstkbc wrote

>The US announced charges against Abu Agila Masud two years ago, alleging that he played a key role in the bombing on 21 December, 1988.

[...]

>A US Justice Department spokesperson told the Reuters news agency that Masud would make an initial appearance in a federal court in Washington.

[...]

>A spokesperson for the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service (COPFS) said: "[...]Scottish prosecutors and police, working with UK government and US colleagues, will continue to pursue this investigation, with the sole aim of bringing those who acted along with Al Megrahi to justice."

The plane crashed in Scotland, but it was an American flight. There are probably some legal implications there.

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auntieup t1_iztuit3 wrote

The combined value of the lives lost on that plane was calculated in the tens of millions. My friend was one of them. She would be 54 now.

We’ve learned a lot about how international courts “work” in the past 34 years. We are going to make these charges stick.

33

kickass236 t1_izuyof2 wrote

Are you implying that every country in the world has a shit justice system compared to America because it sure as all fucks ain't.

EDIT: just to clarify I think the trial should be in Scotland where the attack took place not America. If we arrested the people who did 9/11 and then claimed that well british people died so we are putting them on trial not you you'd all be pissed.

−23

auntieup t1_izv6l8p wrote

A professor at UC Berkeley School of Law taught students in her civil procedure class that their work began with one question: What would make the client whole?

In this case, the answer is: 270 people still alive. Their families intact. A quiet street in a tiny Scottish town unharmed, no homes on fire, no bodies in its back gardens and fields. All of that has been impossible since 21 December 1988. What we have left now is prosecution.

American courts aren’t perfect. But we’ve developed really robust tort law, over generations, that effectively measures harm and assesses the appropriate responses to it. We’re good at defining horror with dollar amounts. We like making people pay.

The law in the United States is an imperfect system of last resort. This delayed attempt at justice, 34 years after my friend was murdered on her way home from a semester abroad, is the definition of last resort. And I will take it.

20

kickass236 t1_izv8kpm wrote

So what your saying is he should be in Scotland awaiting trial since he committed this crime in Scotland where the person who committed the act was put on trial this is a terror attack on scottish soil that killed scottish people too so he should be held to account by our courts not yours. Its not a last resort its an attempt to police the world once again.

−11

auntieup t1_izvbnnc wrote

That is what you are saying. And you’re making kind of a mess of saying it, lmao.

17

kickass236 t1_izvcgcd wrote

Ah yes making a mess of saying that 21 nationalities where involved it happend in Scotland the original person was charged and jailed under scots law so in fact this person too should be being held to account in the uk under scots law this was the biggest terror attack to happen on british soil where the fuck does it involve american soil planes are not sovereign soil. But airspace above Scotland and the houses it crashed into where in Scotland thats all sovereign soil. If one of the attackers was charged tried and found guilty under scots law so should the other

−7

auntieup t1_izvjisk wrote

LMAO. (cracks knuckles)

The bomb had been assembled in Libya, likely packed into a suitcase in Malta, loaded onto a flight in Germany, and finally planted aboard its destination flight on an American carrier in London. After negotiations with Nelson Mandela and the United Nations, Scottish authorities were placed in charge of the trial of the first two suspects, which was held in the Netherlands. And Scotland did incarcerate the one convicted terrorist until they released him on medical grounds 8 years later. They shouldn’t have done that, but they did. He died 4 years later.

So yes, we tried the collective approach. It failed. This is a murder investigation and the majority of people who were murdered were Americans. We have your uncle in custody and we’re going to try him. If you’re mad about that, you should have told him not to confess to building the bomb a decade ago, lol.

You don’t have to like it. In fact I’m kind of happy about how upset you are.

Merry Christmas.

17

kickass236 t1_izvnk4i wrote

Yeah not upset just don't understand how it gets tried in america when it happend it scotland lol. And yeah totally agree we shouldn't have let him leave but don't think anyone on Scotland expect our government at the time did or does. Merry Christmas

3

leaving4lyra t1_izvdg1i wrote

It was an American based airline company with a US crew..the passengers were from 21 nations with the US losing the most citizens with 190 passengers dying. The first two guys caught and tried were tried in the Netherlands under Scottish law with one acquitted and the other guy getting life but doing less than ten years in jail before getting sick and gaining compassionate release in 2009.. he died in 2012. Families of the victims, mostly the US as we lost the most people in the crash, felt that the first two guys tried got off easy so when this third man, the man incidentally who built the bomb that blew up the plane, was caught, it was agreed by other countries involved to let the US take the lead in hopes that if found guilty, this guy would get a harsher sentence than the first two got.

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ssr_nana t1_izvmdb2 wrote

Thanks for the explanation. Very interesting.

5

KarateKid917 t1_izsq7pz wrote

Americans were killed in it and it was a US based airline

25

International_Bat_87 t1_iztq3yi wrote

AP news explains a little more in-depth that Ghadafi ordered intelligence officials of the Libyan government to carry out the hit as Americans were the target. It’s an act of terrorism against the US government carried out by another foreign government is how they’re trying to pin it so they have jurisdiction.

15

BenPool81 t1_izu6gw8 wrote

The flight was PanAm, an American company.

8

woodguyatl t1_izwwnh7 wrote

Yes. I highly suspect he was part of the Griner prisoner swap. Russia had Libya release him to the US as part of the deal.

4

themoff81 t1_izz5qt3 wrote

Are there any sources for your suspicion?

2

woodguyatl t1_izzbuyy wrote

No. Pure suspicion. But it is quite a coincidence that that a smaller ally of Russia released somebody the US has been trying to extradite just a few days after the prisoner deal.

3

hateitorleaveit t1_izw5wc7 wrote

Short answer. The USA arrested and charged him. So the USA is sending him to USA trial

1

pickled-egg t1_izwmagt wrote

Megrahi didn't get a real trial, it was just a show.

The USA has dropped the pretence this time.

1

[deleted] t1_izstwej wrote

[deleted]

130

wyvernx02 t1_izt1uta wrote

Could you do us all a favor and go try to take a picture of Putin?

170

InternationalCut2610 t1_izt72lz wrote

Should probably buy some rabbits and take pictures of half and see what happens. Because if it turns out you're the grim reaper I think you've been slacking off a bit.

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MississippiJoel t1_izsvypz wrote

I could come up with some joke, but I'm sure this weighs on you in a 'too silly to talk about with internet strangers' kind of way.

Has this affected your habits of taking photos in your daily life?

15

Afraid_of_Okapi t1_izv3gqk wrote

Is this an Eastern European grandmother thing by chance? My great grandma was apparently certain having photos taken would at the very least seal a piece of your soul in the film and therefor your soul wouldn’t be in tact when you received judgment before God and couldn’t make it from paradise into OG heaven. She also thought it was extremely bad luck for the person being photographed.

5

Dangerous_Golf_7417 t1_iztjwuo wrote

I mean, pretty much every plane has been photographed hundreds of times. If anything, you're just cursed.

4

darth__fluffy t1_izuygru wrote

Did you also happen to take a picture of Clipper Victor by any chance?

2

InkIcan t1_izslc1c wrote

Some pictures from the bombing in case you're wondering if this is something worth pursuing justice over.

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BasroilII t1_izukvgj wrote

Anyone who even remotely things it wouldn't be is too young to remember that, probably. I was in middle school when it happened, and it was all anyone talked about for a long time.

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InkIcan t1_izuofa3 wrote

>Anyone who even remotely things it wouldn't be is too young to remember that

"Nobody will ever say the Holocaust didn't happen."

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michilio t1_izux4ei wrote

Eisenhower´s first reaction upon realising the true brutality of the camps, the day he visits, before the war even ended: invites journalists and tells them to document because he can imagine people claiming it didn´t happen.

https://remember.org/facts-aft-lib-eis.html

>[...]as soon as I returned to Patton’s headquarters that evening I sent communications to both Washington and London, urging the two governments to send instantly to Germany a random group of newspaper editors and representative groups from the national legislatures. I felt that the evidence should be immediately placed before the American and British publics in a fashion that would leave no room for cynical doubt.”

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Kahzootoh t1_izvo3i1 wrote

To be fair, denial was the order of the day for basically everyone. There is no shortage of historical precedent when it comes to a nation trying to whitewash the uglier pages of its history. It’s kind of amazing that anyone ever thought there would be no attempt to deny or downplay the Holocaust.

Eisenhower was always a superb organizer, and stood out from his contemporaries for having a better sense of his own place in the overall system and the vast responsibility that came with it. Other generals often neglected certain areas of their responsibility, particularly the political aspects (which is understandable, as many had little experience outside traditional military matters). Inviting the press and making the thorough documentation of the Holocaust a key policy set him apart from many contemporaries who essentially waived it off as the usual wartime atrocities one sees in war that quickly gets forgotten about by most people.

5

Gekkers t1_izut0h4 wrote

My father worked in the RAF as a photographer and was one of the gentlemen sent to take these pictures. That's all I know because he refuses to talk about how horrific it was.

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InkIcan t1_izuv8ub wrote

I'm so sorry - please extend my sympathy and empathy.

8

Gekkers t1_izuxwbt wrote

That's kind of you to say. It's not a subject I discussed with my Dad, I know the memory of being there, cataloguing and the clean up was traumatic. Mum did her best to explain at the time. Cannot fathom to imagine the victims family's suffering. It breaks my heart.

13

auntieup t1_izztwkk wrote

Your father was important in helping us identify and send home the belongings of those we lost. I can’t imagine what those images did to him, but they had critical forensic value.

By the time I reached the Incident Centre, most of my friend’s things were accounted for and repacked. (The amazing women of Lockerbie had laundered and folded clothes that fell out of passenger luggage after the explosion.) I never had to see your father’s work, but it helped the lovely local people identify some of my friend’s things as hers.

Please thank him for me. ❤️

3

Mattyi t1_izv0p33 wrote

Colleague of mine was giving a talk about PTSD that she asked me to proofread, and the deck included shots from the aftermath of this attack that I haven’t seen anywhere.

The shots in this link don’t even begin to scratch the surface. I’m a child of the internet and that shit affected me for weeks just looking at the PowerPoint.

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xdlols t1_izv0srv wrote

What was so haunting about the photos?

2

Para_Regal t1_izz1tk9 wrote

I believe the photos show bodies (or rather, parts of bodies) that were flung all over Lockerbie after the explosion. I’ve read descriptions of some of the unpublished photos that describe just absolute carnage in that little town. There are graphic photos out there on the internet if you want to try to dig for them, but I believe some of the worst photos were tightly controlled so as not to have them leaked to the public.

3

SpartanNation053 t1_izuydun wrote

If this isn’t a case where the government would seek death, what is?

2

TheFan88 t1_izvshsf wrote

That is a powerful article. Thanks for posting. College students losing their lives is so painful. So much future ahead of them taken for literally no good reason. None. Just evil people.

To the evil people sitting around thinking up horrific acts like this - try to do something positive with your life. Positive change. Terrorism does nothing but make you evil.

1

Born_Current6133 t1_izuxlo7 wrote

My dad worked on the wreckage afterwards. It was heartbreaking

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damnthistrafficjam t1_izw127g wrote

I remember too well when this hit the news. I don’t know whether it was true, but it was reported that a set of seats was hanging off a tree with bodies still strapped in. I will never be able to put that out of my mind. I can’t even imagine what people who were there went through. And I don’t know what punishment is great enough for people who would commit such unspeakable horror in the world.

3

hurtloam t1_izwlujx wrote

Unfortunately there is some photographic evidence of such things, not that particular image, but similar. Be careful what you Google when looking for info. I am shocked by what they printed in the Newspaper. I can't unsee it. I wasn't expecting to come across it. I can't imagine how difficult it was for the hard workers on the ground to process.

The women of Lockerbie baked and set up a tea station for the workers. They said in interviews that some of the men didn't want to eat a meal, they needed a cup of tea and to just sit undisturbed and try and process what they saw when they came back from working. They all did such important jobs, but I have no words for how heartbreaking it must have been and how appreciated it was.

8

auntieup t1_izzv2xc wrote

I’m so sorry. We have all the evidence we now have because of people like your dad. I’m so grateful to him for the terrible, necessary work he did.

1

Roadkill_Shitbull t1_izte75k wrote

Hope he enjoys rotting in solitary confinement in ADX Florence for the rest of his life 😊

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Sharkbait_ooohaha t1_izu3jgc wrote

Why would you hope he enjoys that?

−36

improveoneday t1_izuh4fw wrote

Is English your first language?

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big_ugly_builder t1_izum2ob wrote

Point being, if he enjoys it, it's not really a punishment but a reward. Why hope he is rewarded for what he did?

−20

MississippiJoel t1_izuq77q wrote

It's a decades, or centuries old expression. If you're unawares, you're one of today's lucky 10K. If you're trying to argue about this in bad faith, then go away.

21

Sharkbait_ooohaha t1_izujvyq wrote

As far as I know.

−21

Must_Reboot t1_izv0djy wrote

You may understand English, but you don't understand sarcasm.

22

Sharkbait_ooohaha t1_izv2ha5 wrote

So in reality you want someone to be miserable and in pain but you disguise it by saying the opposite cause it would be awful to say that?

−19

JohnBurke0812 t1_izv5m2d wrote

Are you trying to say you would prefer someone get away with this horrific crime than face justice? Or just arguing this is bad faith? Either way this isn’t the place to have that kind of take. I don’t think there is a good place for a take like that…

12

Sharkbait_ooohaha t1_izv6gmt wrote

Justice doesn’t mean wishing someone is in pain and misery. There is no moral system where wishing revenge on someone is something that you should be proud of.

−3

Axlndo t1_izv6zb9 wrote

sometimes you just gotta type a full sentence, delete it and turn off your phone for a bit.

15

CamWardsThrowaway t1_izvt8rz wrote

Yes. Miserable and the worst pain any human being can endure.

2

Sharkbait_ooohaha t1_izwx9mc wrote

See that’s not an opinion you should be proud of.

2

CamWardsThrowaway t1_izx6i61 wrote

If you purposely take the life of anyone I believe you should endure the worst human punishment imaginable. And these cunts took nearly 300 and impacted thousands. Fuck them and fuck you if you disagree.

1

Bagzy t1_izu8xod wrote

Bloke was kidnapped by armed assailants about a month ago from his home and is now mysteriously in US custody.

Wonder who that was.

39

funwillfunwill t1_izvtc9v wrote

Also: why does the most powerful warlord in Libya, Khalifa Haftar, own a home in Langley Virginia right next to the CIA headquarters? The US is not good at being subtle lol

2

KrabsTrapsBurger t1_izszf9j wrote

Put him on death row, 35 syracuse students died to that scum

33

JediMasterPopCulture t1_izvodw5 wrote

My neighbor across the street met a girl in college and started dating. One night in her bedroom he noticed a small frame hanging on the wall over her bed. He asked what it was and she began to cry. It was a ticket for this flight. She was supposed to be on it. She had overslept and missed the flight.They would go on to marry each other.

26

brown_paper_bag_920 t1_izvf25x wrote

Men like him are responsible for killing innocent people and making air travel far less convenient for all of us (heightened security).

25

Eurocorp t1_izuti4j wrote

He should be hung, drawn, and quartered.

10

frazio69 t1_izvuwav wrote

One of the biggest injustices to this air disaster was the fact that there was people from the are that the plane went down on that claimed compensation even though they didn't witness the crash nor were affected by it. They claimed thousands when people like my uncle and my partners uncle who worked for the D&G fire department who were first responders to the scene that didn't claim a thing.

They were walking over fields full of body parts and had no idea until the next morning when the sun came up. My uncle said the only thing he could compare the horrific scene was when he was in Ireland during the troubles and he saw a kid drop a doll in the street and ran away to which the doll exploded.

My parents also saw the fireball come down and hit the ground. They rushed to my grandparents as they were panicking thinking the worst and then went over to help the fire crew. There's so many suicides this time of year because of this disaster but I can't help but be a little bitter at the fact that people claimed when they weren't affected in any way by it at all.

8

auntieup t1_izzwvrw wrote

What your family has been through. My god. 💔

1

nimmoisa000 t1_izvomhi wrote

I hope the U.S Attorneys seeks the death penalty. This is why we have a death penalty to make an example out of terrorists like him

6

Ricardolindo3 t1_izvqhab wrote

Great news that the Lockerbie bomber is finally going to face to justice.

3

livingfortheliquid t1_izvs2u0 wrote

Are we planning on trading him for a ping pong player held by North Korea?

1

hateitorleaveit t1_izw4nfg wrote

This article hard to understand or is it just me? The article constantly jumps between events, times, people, and is just all over the place poorly referencing which thing it is talking about at any given time. I’m going to go google this instead

1

WestSeattleMel t1_j011u2o wrote

Looked up a link to share about these compassionate women of Lockerbie.

"Remembering Pan Am Flight 103: The 'Laundry Ladies'

Elma Pringle, Josephine Donaldson, and Moira Shearer were among the many volunteers in Lockerbie who assisted in recovery efforts. The “laundry ladies,” as they became known, began to clean and carefully fold and package the recovered clothing of the victims so that the items could be returned to loved ones.

https://www.fbi.gov/video-repository/laundry-ladies-30-years-pan-am-103-lockerbie-2018.mp4/view

1

Otherwise_Ad9010 t1_izx2ygx wrote

This dude must be praying a WNBA player get arrested in a foreign country….

0

felipe_the_dog t1_izv43a6 wrote

I question if this guy was really involved at all. He "confessed" to handing the bomb to al-Megrahi, who was most likely framed, and Fhimah who was acquitted after proving he was in Sweden at the time. None of this really adds up.

−17

hurtloam t1_izx6sme wrote

Have you seen the PBS documentary My Brother's Bomber? These guys all knew each other and were up to something.

5

felipe_the_dog t1_izyfyao wrote

I haven't but maybe I'll check it out

2

hurtloam t1_izz46r6 wrote

It's really interesting. I was a huge skeptic about Megrahi's involvement. But was quite surprised by the research this guy did. When he identified all the people who met Megrahi when he arrived back in Libya and explained who they were and what they were suspected of it made me rethink a few things. I'm reading Jim Swire's book at the moment. He's not convinced. I'm still not sure what I think. It will be interesting what comes up in this new trial.

2

JV676779 t1_izukija wrote

Maybe Lybia's got a gay American basketball player we can trade him for.....

−40

DoxedFox t1_izuzztt wrote

What a fucking stupid comment.

You do realize that Bout was going to be released at some point either way? He wasn't serving a life sentence and would be released in 2029.

America isn't leaving someone to rot in Russia. It was a pretty good trade.

18

Best-Charge9296 t1_izv7bws wrote

The US is currently leaving an American to rot in Russia. A former US Marine to be specific

−21

DoxedFox t1_izv9wu3 wrote

Convicted of espionage, not a bogus weed conviction.

The US can only trade when Russia is willing to make a deal. Clearly they haven't agreed on something. It's going to cost a lot more than an arms dealer who has 7 years before he's freed anyways, that's for sure.

You do realize that any deal requires Russia's cooperation right? I hope you do.

22

TheFan88 t1_izvrcc5 wrote

And he was an ex marine not honorably discharged. Let’s not make him out to be some war hero here. And we tried to get him in the deal and Russia said only a spy for a spy. So we got what we could. And again this bout guy was going to e released sooner than griner and his crimes were selling old Russian munitions to North Africa regimes and trying to sell to Colombian farq in 1990s. You think Russia has spare arms to sell right now? Haha.

3

summit1986 t1_izxndqc wrote

Well, according to Trump, there was an opportunity to trade Whelan for Bout during his administration and he told Russia to pound sand. Whether or not he's blowing smoke again is another question in and of itself.

1

RedSoviet1991 t1_izvlly8 wrote

Britney actually committed the crime though

−5

forksofpower t1_izvqw14 wrote

Did she commit espionage? No, you ignorant slime mold.

7

Hoju22 t1_izwrw0m wrote

She did commit the crime she was convicted of.

1

RedSoviet1991 t1_izz5y9n wrote

Neither did Whelan... Britney committed the crime though. You don't bring drugs into an authoritarian country with insane hatred for Americans. She was asking for it. Thank god she won't re-produce

1

forksofpower t1_izz8imi wrote

I hope to god you don't reproduce either. No need to fill the world with fucked up chromosomes.

1

punjar3 t1_izyz8b1 wrote

A former criminal, kicked out of the marines for being a criminal.

2

notzed1487 t1_izt5bk7 wrote

I smell a trade coming in the near future

−51